Now I know why it's called the DAMN site...

[?SWAT]

People never cease to amaze me...


Can someone here please explain the new ranking system to me?  Someone other then Ult, who I'll talk about in a second.  This new system is messed up, to put it kindly.  A clan who is 1-1 is ahead of us, and we're 4-0.   How?  Just cause they got more points?  The clan they beat is in 7th....  

So I know you guys are trying to make the system more fair and all, but I felt that that needed to be said.  Also:

Ult-  Shut up.  If KoS is doing soooo good, let them CB without you.  Is KoS doing good, or you?  And I don't think it's right for a moderator to make a post like the one you did, especially after you had ducked numerous CB offers from us.  I think a new category should be added to the stats:  CB's ran away from.  I think you guys would lead that one too...

But I'm tired of all the BL is making us put up with.  I don't think it's right.  I'm going to stop using it, period.  I'm going to do everything in my power to make SWAT resign from the league, and any other clan who will follow.  It's a load of bull.  So good luck to you all, and no hard feelings.


SWAT doesn't need some stupid list to tell us we're the best.

[?SWAT? Civeron]

now the DAMN site cuts off my name.  

This is my post.

[?SWAT? # 2]

i agree fully with SWAT #1 here, it is a load of bull
as i have stated in other threads bitching , cuz i specialize in that...i like psyco and all other clans, except AK cuz they are with rapid, but enough of that.. it is a load of junk, i have the system says 10 points for a win and 1 point for each player.. but yet, when i see a cb happen, the person gets like 60 points  for that win, but yet we get like EFFEn 5 points for a cb. and we effen shut the clans out. we have lost a total of 3 games in the past 4 cbs we have had, and we are 4-0 but yet a 1-1 is beating us in it.. ..... it is official bs. and i will follow with swat if they leave the league,.. swat doesnt need a list to tell we are the best.

EFF the EFFEN Battle LEAGUE!

[jn.wrath]

SWAT #3 here.. posting anonymously as usual.

Battle League is loads of oso poo

[*DAMN Alex]

Im sorry to say that I agree with Oso. How can a team be 2-0 and be in 1st place. When another team is 10-0 but they have 1 point less than the 2-0 team. In my opinion you should get rid of the point system

[Matt]

breath in... hold... breath out.

i just think the formula needs to be relooked at and clans should start with some points, since we were one of the first clans to get a a bunch of cbs in we got screwed (all that dividing by 0 and 0 as the numerator hurt us bigtime) we wouldnt have to reset the league, the only thing needed would be amount of players in the cbs that happened.

ps everyone should congradulaet oso (SWAT #2, get it #2 heheh) for not one mention of poo in his post

[zak]

guys, once people start cbing more, the points will start to even out, so jsut hang in there, it jsut starting up still guys.

I am aware of cowards who wont cb you SWAT, it would piss me off, no, it did piss me off when peopel used to do it to me, mainly kos, they dont liek to loose, therefore they wont cb good clans.

(i would normaly go on attackign ultimo personaly, but hes trying to get me kicked off as a bl admin, so i have to be to be good)

-*DAMN zak

ps
don't hate be because im a pothead

[Bondo]

You may not like the system, but answer me this, where else are there clan and player ladders for R6 and RS?  I personally am retired from competition (and killing although I'm still active at dying) and have no clue how the system works, but I do know there isn't much in the way of other options.

[*DAMN Alex]

I agree with you Bondo that no one else would go out of their way to make a R6 and RS battle league. But if your going to create one. Make sure it works

[zak]

what do people think we can about clans declining a cb, just because they dotn like the clan (they'll make some kakamami excuse, but i mean real reason)

[Bondo]

After looking at the ladder and specifically Swat and the 1-1 team above them, I have to agree there has been an error in the calculation system (or the point system in general).  If the 1-1 team had won by a shutout and then lost just barely both to top teams and Swat had just barely beaten bad teams I could see it as being right, but considering Swat has higher kill, game, and match win ratios in addition to matches played.  The only thing that can possibly be keeping them below is quality of opponent which, if it is true, is set to high on the point priority list.  I'm a two bit math whore matician, so I'd be willing to pound out a system that might be more fair that considers games played, the three ratios mentioned before and quality wins but does so in good preportion.  Then again just like the BCS does to college football, someone always gets spammed.

[PsYcO aSsAsSiN]

Well, I don't know how the points work, but PsYcO apparently got 65 points for beating a clan with 52. Now I don't quite understand the whole points system, but we apparently got 10 for the win, 3 for having 3 players fighting, and the total amount of points of the clan we defeated (52).

If there are questions about the whole points system, Elandrion is the man to ask because he created it.

My personal opinion is that the points system was created this way so we don't have another KoS situation like that last ladder - winning early and often and demoralizing other clans from cb'ing. It was also created so one clan could not sit up top by themselves and not have to defend their record.

No matter which way the ladder is created, there is always going to be at least one detractor from it...if you truly hate the way it is set up, there is always the mag league.

I didn't want to seem like a total jackass in this post, so to finish it off, I do find it odd having a 1-1 clan ahead of a 4-0 clan, but it is like the BCS...no system is perfect. (Ask Colorado and Oregon)

Only way to rectify the situation is to continue fighting other clans and pushing the point totals upward.

[Grifter]

First, let me say that I truely appreciate the efforts that Mauti and others go through for the RS mac community.  I blame nobody for problems and do not want to sound ungrateful at all.

That said, I don't agree with you Ass(assin).  If we keep CB'ing and get to the point where the first place team has 500 points, and the next three teams are up there in the 400's... and now a new clan is formed of all stars, comes in and beats the number 1 team, they would end up in first place... with 1 win...  that's the way the formula is set up right now.  Any clan that comes in can take over first place with a single win against the first place clan... any CB after that and they get less and less points.  

Right now, SWAT would earn more points for beating the first place clan if we broke up and re-entered the league, then if we CB'd them right up front... that's a little disturbing.

As for punishing clans that run away... I'd love to see a challenge function, that if it went unanswered for some amount of time (like, say, 2 weeks, plenty of time to set up a CB), it would deduct some good amount of points from the team that turned down the challenge (like 20 or 25 points, enough for 2 CB's on average).  

Again, I'm trying not to complain too much, but if we were to have CB'd those same clans today, instead of CB'ing early, we'd have a bunch more points...  

So, to sum it all up, it's a game, it's only a game... it's a ladder, it's only a ladder... Mauti and Elandrion have my utmost respect in their efforts and the time that they have spent working on this site... so let's not be too insulting here guys.  I agree, the way the new point system has gone in (due to either a code bug or just a logic problem) is not exactly fair... but give these guys a chance to make it better before we jump off.  In the battle league (not in the forum here) Elandrion mentioned it would be a couple weeks before he could check it out due to school... so let's give him the chance...

Just my 2?

[?SWAT? Oso]

okie okie okie okie okie......breatthhhhhheeeee......assassin...... we have tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried again to _______en cb clans when we get a chance, so far every clan we have asked, always says no, so dont tell us to just keep fighting, cuz we cant if the other clan is afraid of a freaken loss... take IAM.. they are damn good cookies, 4 loses and still keeps trying, how come other clans cant be soo cool like them and not worry about a loss... i mean when we/if we lose, we will still continue to cb more and more, a loss isnt the _______ en end of the world, but it seems most clans dont like to lose, and i cant disagree with them, but makeing a clan not be able to participate in cb's cuz of stupid _____en cowards is just pissing me off, we have been turned down about 6 times a day from cbs.... it is just annoying ... i say BOOOO. and wrath guess what... oso poo.. bastard.....

[Bondo]

Well, Oregon at least, I go to CU (not the Boulder one though) and after Oregon kicked our ass I feel worse for them.

Anyway about the points, this is the system I'd propose it may end up needing some changes as I couldn't test to see how it would affect the standings as I don't know who beat who.
The Clan gets points thusly.
5 per Clan Battle (this encourages battling)
The battle win rate is multiplied by 12 (by multiplying times the number of wins divided by the total number of battles)
The game win rate is multiplied by 10
The kill rate is multiplied by 8
Then points are also added for victories over a top 5 clan 10 for the first place, 8 for second and so on. ?If the clan they beat that was in first falls to second, they lose two points as it is how the team stands currently, not at the time of battle that these points are affected.
Add all these categories are added to produce a score. ?A hypothetic example will follow.

[Matt]

there is something definately wrong with this math... psyco got 10 points for the win, plus 3 for each player... plus 52 (m7s points)/0 (psycos points * 4
DOES NOT COMPUTE DOES NOT COMPUTE.
you cannot divide by 0, so the winning clan just gets the losing clans points? wtf so if we rejoined the league.. starting over with 0 points cb a clan with a lot of points and get the amount of points they have PLUS 10 for the win PLUS points for each player

[Bondo]

Here's my first hypothetical comparing a 1-1 team that got as many points as it could and a 4-0 team getting as little as it could.  Note, I am not bothering with the number of players thing as that is rubbish, it shouldn't matter if it is 2v2 or 3v3 or whatever.  So anyway.

Team A
2 games
1-1 record
14-6 games
31-12 kills
Win over current #1
Total points-38.8

Team B
4 games
4-0 record
24-16 games
48-44 kills
No quality wins
Total points- 42.2

As you can see there is no way a 1-1 team could be ahead of a 4-0 team but it is very close due to the quality win and good performances, if the 1-1 team went out won against any old team to go to 2-1 they would be able to pass the 4-0 team.  I think this way works very well, rewarding playing the game and playing against high ranked teams.  I'd want to factor in a 5 point penalty for clans that reject a challange but it wasn't needed for this.  I think this method would give teams the proper weighting.

[PsYcO aSsAsSiN]

I don't agree with you Ass(assin). ?If we keep CB'ing and get to the point where the first place team has 500 points, and the next three teams are up there in the 400's... and now a new clan is formed of all stars, comes in and beats the number 1 team, they would end up in first place... with 1 win...

Excellent point grifter...like I said no system is perfect. What most of the people posting here need to realize that absolutely no system is 100% foolproof, 100% effective, and 100% satisfying.

This was apparently the best system at the time the new BL was implemented and it will probably stay until we can all get together and talk to Elandrion when he has the time to take away from his busy life and talk to us.

As for punishing clans that run away... I'd love to see a challenge function, that if it went unanswered for some amount of time (like, say, 2 weeks, plenty of time to set up a CB), it would deduct some good amount of points from the team that turned down the challenge (like 20 or 25 points, enough for 2 CB's on average). ?

Well considering that no one has ever mentioned this type of idea before Grifter, I find several major problems with this such as abuse of the system. There are many ways that a challenge function could be abused and therefore damage the clan who was abused by the system.

Like I said earlier,

I do find it odd having a 1-1 clan ahead of a 4-0 clan, but it is like the BCS...no system is perfect. (Ask Colorado and Oregon)

As for Zak and Ultimo... **sigh** I am not even going to touch that problem between you two.

[Grifter]

First....
Ult, take a deep breath...  SWAT isn't out to get you... Civ posted his opinion.  We don't need to start a war over that.  I don't think KoS is ducking us, especially since you challenged me just the other day...  Civ gets a different story based on what times he is on..  You and Civ just need to clear a little air... it's not a KoS vs SWAT thing...

Second,
Ass(assin) what kind of abuse?  If you have two weeks to answer a challenge... even if you get challenged by multiple clans, why do you think it can be abused??  I mean, I haven't given it a ton of thought, but I like the idea of punishing a clan that refused to CB another clan (like AK keeps ducking us, and a few others).

There needs to be some simple logic added, so that you can't challenge the same clan again until the first time limit has expired.  Also, there has to be some way to schedule it... so that when one clan doesn't show up, it can be shown...  Also, thinking about it... it should probably be a sliding scale... penelties get greater the more times it happens...  maybe the first time is free...  it could be worked out... at least, it's my opinion it could be.  I'm just looking to address the core problem that the skill points were trying to address...  clans that refuse to CB other good clans...  So if KoS challenged SWAT, we'd have 2 weeks to schedule AND play a CB... if we didn't show, we'd lose 25 points (KoS wouldn't gain any)...  If they challenged us again, and we ducked them again, we'd lose 35 ponits or so.  (Yes, I'm using KoS and us just to show how silly it can seem)...  

Also, it should be like a forefit... the challenging clan could extend the deadline, if they feel it was fair (i.e., my connection kept crashing, and Ultimo didn't think it was fair to CB against SWAT without me, so he ok's it to happen a week later, past the deadline, so that I can CB too... he just wouldn't put in that we ducked it as long as we showed up when we all agreed to).  

Let me know what you guys think?

[Matt]

i think dividing by 0 is evil.