Apple's Bootcamp and the future of Mac Gaming

[:MoD:Shade]

If a game is ported and it runs the same as it does on the Windows half I'll play it on Mac.

If a game is ported and it runs any worse then whats the point of playing it on Mac?

[Guest]

I would bet BareFeats will have done dual boot tests soon. Interesting how Apple had the drivers ready for the ATI, I wonder if they planned this all along and were waiting for someone to hack it before they did it themselves.

I would suggest that this has been in planning for a long time with Microsoft's knowledge which would explain their lack of recent upgrades to mac products and the recent removal of the stand alone WMP app for osx.
Both Apple and Microsoft will see it as a win - win situation.

[Civrock]

http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/index.html#S20940

[BFG]

Brad Oliver isn't wild about the inpact of this on mac gaming:

It almost certainly spells the end of Mac ports for games that use things we can't license and cause cross-platform issues. GameSpy, DirectPlay - games that use these and end up crippled on the Mac are likely going the way of the dodo as far as Mac-native versions go. Similarly, games that ship with important, but very Windows-centric, editor components are likely out of the running. We'd be foolish to try and ship these things with Mac-only networking now if you can just dual-boot.

Looking back on previous games, these issues would affect Neverwinter Nights (editor), Tiger Woods (networking), Age of Empires (networking), Civ3 (networking and possibly the editor), C&C Generals (networking), Alpha Centauri (networking), EverQuest (networking, although this was never a technical limitation), and Star Wars Battlefront (GameSpy). There are probably other games that were network-crippled, but I don't keep track of those.

Im kinda pissed. As much as i want to play HL, BF2 etc, i think a lot of people forget just what a POS Win is, and that unless everything im expecting doesn't happen, this isn't isn't going to boost the options for game porting houses, giving them more revenue to provide better ports of AAA titles etc, its just going to kill games on mac - maybe not this year, maybe not quite next.. but soon enough

[Ethion]

The only companny that is going to earn something out of this deal, is Apple.
Maybe the porting companies in the very very long end.
But when the whole line of products gets into intel. We are going to see less and less games for mac.

But I have to say, for myself. I have felt the so called "mac gaming" community dying.

[*DAMN Mauti]

Apple's move generates a lot of interesting questions however I don't see the dead of the Mac Gaming market yet, which has survived since the first Macintosh 1984. This market was never very big, just take a look how many top games have been ported recently. Just a handful like WoW, Quake4, Doom III and The Sims, which I assume sell all well.

As a consequence I don't see a reason why such AAA titles shouldn't be ported anymore. They still have their Mac audience: namely all PPC MacUser, and I guess so far not even 1 percent of all MacUser have an Intel Mac. Just take a look at this community and ask who owns an Intel Mac? For sure not many. So for at least the next year, maybe even two, depending on the hardware requirements of games in the future, we won't see a big change. The DoomEngine has been ported, so all games that are using it can be converted easily and gonna find their buyers. Further in response to BFG a workaround for the GameSpy networking has been found, and works as we can see in America's Army. Another reason less why the Mac Gaming market will suddenly die.

So where does the Mac Gaming market move? - I think it will stay stable for the near future, and when people complain how bad some conversions are running, they often forget that they are still using it on completely outdated 1 Ghz G4s with even more outdated graphic cards. Once we change to IntelMacs, we all have suddenly good requirements for gaming(leaving out the MacMini), and also the conversions aren't running that bad anymore. Contrary they will start to fly.

However the gaming market as it is today, has already seen better days. Many top notch engines can't be ported due not convertable physic engines or expensive licenses and even some problems are homemade with delayed and feature missing ports. These are the real problem and the rerason for many gamers  to switch to consoles or even a PC. Dualbooting doesn't change this situation, even better it may prevent users to buy an PC and keep sticking with a Mac. Further it may gives you, the veteran Mac User, a reason more to switch quickly to the latest Intel Macs, and beside that you will notice how many recent Mac ports and games you can suddenly enjoy in its full glory.
However because of Dual Booting the porting houses like Aspyr, MacSoft, etc. are asked more than ever to create excellent ports with unique Mac features like GameRanger support. I think Battlefield would have taken another road if GameRanger support would have been there from the beginning, as we can see with Star Wars Battlefront who is in the Game Ranger's top ten. They have to glare with support and features to stay unique and worthy in the eye of the Mac customer.

In the long run maybe the overall situation changes, but if the quality of Mac conversions can keep up with the PC version(a few frames less aside, who cares if the game runs with 120 or 110fps if you can use it in your Mac environment) I still see a lot of customers who want to enjoy the small benefits of playing on a Mac in Mac OS. Further the market share of Mac Users probably gonna increase and so there are more potential Mac Gamers, if porting houses can deliver the demanded support and quality.

Happy End or not, noboday can say for sure, because only the future will show.

I say yes, and welcome a new and exciting era.

Mauti

[Civrock]

http://features.uneasysilence.com/mactel/

[BTs_Mysterio]

http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/index.html#S20940

Who here is actually surprised to confirm that mac OpenGL sucks? Maybe this will force Apple to address this in Leopard.

Has anyone confirmed whether or not the new firmware does allow install from any CD? (If a CSM is present or not)

[BTs_Mysterio]

Something I felt worthy of double posting was the following:

http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/04/20060406081519.shtml

The first true virtualization solution has arrived, I'm going to see if I can convince my brother to try this as it isn't a dual boot mess.

[PandabeaR]

Woooot...

And a Big Ole Middle Finger Dee-luxe to the smarmy little shit who sarcastically enlightenend me to the 'fact" that Running Windows was NEVER the intent of the new Intel-macs...and that i just didnt know what i was talking about.

*cough* - Oh Reaallly??

You know who you are. eat it.

Who told you that? Because it was already in the plans that the Macintels would be able to boot vista natively... what a pen0r.

[BFG]

Who here is actually surprised to confirm that mac OpenGL sucks? Maybe this will force Apple to address this in Leopard.

Woah Open GL does not suck. full stop. the end

If however you said 'Open GL implementation in OSX sucks' then id have to agree!

[BTs_Mysterio]

Who here is actually surprised to confirm that mac OpenGL sucks? Maybe this will force Apple to address this in Leopard.

Woah Open GL does not suck. full stop. the end

If however you said 'Open GL implementation in OSX sucks' then id have to agree!

EHEM

[:MoD:Shade]

Video of BF2 running hella smooth:

http://web.mac.com/richardpride/iWeb/Site/Movie.html

Video of Half-Life 2 running hella smooth:

http://www.cabel.name/2006/04/boot-camp-fi...fe-2-video.html

[Civrock]

http://www.tuaw.com/2006/04/05/blue-screen-of-death-on-an-imac/

 


Btw, Shade, your second link is corrupted. Here's the working one: http://www.cabel.name/2006/04/boot-camp-first-look-half-life-2-video.html

[Macuber]

After experiencing a"Little" incident, we will not have ANY "Boot Camp" intel Macs on display. Take this as a friendly word to the wise.

[BTs_Mysterio]

Was that a quote or do you work at a reseller? If by incident you mean virus, maybe you should use some nice anti-virus/spyware software. Remember Apple's side of page reminder:

"Word to the Wise
Windows running on a Mac is like Windows running on a PC. That means it’ll be subject to the same attacks that plague the Windows world. So be sure to keep it updated with the latest Microsoft Windows security fixes."

[Supernatural Pie]

Ok. I'm going to post what I already posted on the AA forums:

"Hypothetically, say, 5, 6, 7 years from now, when PPC Macs are essentially obsolete, what is the motivation for ANY software developers to continue developing anything for OSX?

And if we stop getting software for our operating system... what is the point of the operating system? We'll all be forced to switch to Windows because no software developers will support OSX anymore...

I guess what I'm asking is... will we all be doomed to use Windows as our primary operating system within the next decade? I use Macs for the OS, not for the hardware..."

I think you're all minimizing this to just games...

Sure, this will be fantastic for gaming (not so fantastic for the "Mac community," if such a thing still exists with a shred of humanity...), but I'm not really seeing the difference between Games vs. All Other Software.

If, in the future, (assuming everyone inevitably switches to Intel) everyone is capable of running Windows, why would ANY software developers bother writing ANYTHING for OSX?! Simple economics would dictate that it just isn't worth it...

Unless there is something of which I am not aware (I can't program beyond VBA) that makes writing ALL software (not just games) for OSX far superior/easier/etc to writing them for Windows, then how is this not spelling the ultimate demise of OSX?

[*DAMN Mauti]

I really don't see this happen, because of two reasons:

1.) The Mac User has money
2.) The Mac User spends money, but he won't be satisfied with a Windows version. He wants that applications make use of the all the OS features like Core Audio, Image, Video,... and all other great frameworks you can use as programmer, and if there is a demand applications will be created.

If i look at the applications I use most, there are many Mac Only applications. Why should they suddenly only be available for Windows?
At all I could imagine it the other way around: in the future you can develop on a Mac and deploy everywhere. Which makes the Mac platform even more interesting for developers, especially together with a rumored Yellow Box for windows, creating Mac applications could get another boost! Also Apple is the only company that features the possibility to run all applications you need. It makes a PC really obsolete, if you may need this little Windows applications for your tax declaration.

Since all the years I study computer science I never missed an application on Mac OS, and if I may need this special 3D modeler in the future I can boot quickly in Windows now and use it. Easy as that. Great.

The Mac developing scene has never been that strong, we have never seen that many applications and the user base is growing so I really don't see any reason why a possible Windows boot solution should abandon Mac developers. As cross platform developer you may would save money, keeping out a Mac app, but what Apple taught us all the years, is that Design, Emotions and Usability is important and has a market, that's the reason why we use Macs everyday, and why Apple appeals to us, and that these users will never be satisfied with a Windows version.

The difference between games and software is that the games don't need to interact with other applications, when you start a game you forget the OS, it wouldn't make a difference if you play it on a console, PC or Mac, but as soon as you use a normal application drag and drop things between a few applications, copy and paste, want to send it via Email, you gonna notice the OS a lot.

The only exception for games are multiplayer services like GameRanger, which is the reason from my last post why Mac porting houses have to glare with features and quality more than ever. GameRanger support is for me a unique and enjoyable service and games that make use of it are more appealing than games that don't have this feature.  It creates a feeling of being home, having the overview where your buddies are, etc... There you also will notice the difference between Mac and Windows, and I would prefer a Mac version, if it runs almost as good(a few frames aside due the porting).

So if the Mac keeps being unique in many ways it will be growing and growing. Boot Camp just makes the Mac experience even better. Buy a Mac and don't worry anymore about anything, except some Windows viruses.

[Ethion]

And alot of things can happened between 3-7 years.

[Macuber]

Wasn't anything to do with Viruses Mysterio.. had to do with the Beta Drivers in Boot Camp.