Ugh, I hate how you all bring politics into this and complain about soldiers deaths.  War is terrible...war isn't something that we should all want to experience...but people who JOIN the military...(no they aren't drafted)...know what the hell they're getting themseleves in to.  If not...well...surprise surprise.  You're a soldier.  You should know what it is.  Im not saying soldiers are expendable but quit complaining about it.  They are serving their country the way so many soldiers from all other countries have done for thousands of years.  And Bush isn't sending these guys to their deaths.  He isn't the only one saying "OK lets attack this town here and bomb these guys over here and let me fly a jet over there."  Theres a reason why there is a separation of powers in the Gov't, kiddos.  Oh and by the way...all of you who say "I can't stand the government!  It sucks!" etc and etc...go fuck yourselves, Ok?  The only reason you're able to say that shit is because of the govenment, thanks.  How about you show a little support instead of being a big pussy and bitching about everything.  Thank god that you don't live in some of these other shithole countries who are a LOT worse off than us.  Ugh...whatever...Im done.  And Im sure I'll get some irate jackass to reply to this and in advance...go fuck yourself.  

Chillin the Most,
Chad
- *DAMN Postal Worker -

hmmm,  who you talkin too "kiddo"?  there's no one here saying that.  


i agree, all of those things would be crazy to kill over.  crazy i tell ya.  ssick in the head type.  And then to have your own fair way of life imposed upon by someone taking advantage of you, it makes total sense to defend your right as a human being.  Who in iraq is imposing upon us?  "blah blah blah"... oh Sadam was imposing upon the rest of the middle east.  But then why isn't the other countries involved, the UN?  Why are we there mostly alone?  Everyone else stupid?  

our soldiers are saying "we're here to free iraq"

does a free iraq = no terrorism?  If not, then are we spending our resources and soldiers lives for the right cause?  Cause we might be  making things worse.


and...?  like who?  keep goin!                          

It may just be me, but isn't this a paradox we see quite to often in the U.S. today? Freedom of speech as long as it is what the government says...and if otherwise you are an idiot?

Then I think I prefer those other "shithole" coutnries".....at least the government is open about the rapage of its ppl.

welcome to the (modern?) damn political discussions.  I haven't seen that problem in here.  And I actually welcome those ill-informed types/punks to come get involved.  This isn't some lame rocket science exluding people.  

America, and it's presidents

Reading most of these posts has given me some hope again, that the average American citizen (what is the average American citizen? Currently, he/she seems to me an abstraction of a collection of predjudices i have collected, enlighten me), might begin to think for him/herself again, though perhaps the posts (from BFG, Losemoney, Ssickboy, and cohorts) come from a small splinter of a minority?

"Good & Evil"

Doing the "right thing" (here's to abstractions), may not be as hard as it is made out to be. Imagine yourself in the position of another person, that phenomenon is called EMPATHY, and is sadly lacking the world nowadays (even as a write this, I realize the hypocrisy of that statement, but at least I strive to better myself).
History tends to repeat itself, and i believe we are rapidly moving again to a time of religious wars (or perhaps the wars started with the advent of the first religion never ended),
for religion requires a blind belief (blind, as no evidence can be shown),
to believe blindly, imo. must be a fanatic, to at least some extent.
fanaticism, is the easiest state of mind to be abused by "evil" men (what is evil? as long as some humanity survives, the survival of the fittest has been applied, what's more, even if we all die (god forbid ), we'd obviously not have been the fittest, being too dumb no to self destruct),
fanaticism is easily abused, as once one believes something blindly, he must trust his peers in the belief system to tell him/her what the current beliefs are (please save the discussion of religion evolving or not for later),
so, i feel justified in claiming religion (especially monotheism) is one of the biggest mistakes humanity has ever made, being the perfect excuse to kill for.

Israel & Palestinians

Both sides are led exclusively by blind, radical IDIOTS. There is no solution, but it's still a stupid fucking situation (any vicious circle is stupid).

On a personal note

I do not expect anyone to take the trouble of decyphering my horrible syntax, so this discussion should not be affected by me.
Please realize this post is very subjective, like every post i have read on this forum, so to add even more subjectivity to this witches' brew: everything is to some extent subjective. Even the universe as we see it, has been subjectified by our eyes, sending signals to the brain, thus perceiving it individually: http://thesaurus.reference.com/search?r=2&q=subjective (one might argue the thesaurus is incorrect, but wouldnt that just be proving my case?)

and last, but not least, please take everything in post personally. or don't.

THINK FOR YOURSELF SHMUCK!

Peace (really, not GS's gun-toting kind with mutually assured destruction ensuring a cold war kind of unstable peace).
MacMan

(just my 2 eurocents)

I only have a few minutes so I'll have to keep this brief. There is so much to reply to, respond about...

In short, I think our arguments break down to defending these two perspectives on what it is to have freedom:

Some of us want freedom in order to exercise it.

Some of us want freedom in order to exercise it, but only for themselves and only in the ways they think are appropriate.

I am firmly convinced that George W. Bush would on an honest day asert that it is the second reason I propsed that is the reason he wants freedom.

I am worried that the state of Isreal under it's current leadership has been brought towards just that sort of "freedom" as well - our freedom, not yours. But I honestly think Isreal is not my problem. As an American, I say let and the Palestinians burn their own house down around them. But we must cease to support one side or the other. Both are devils in their own way.

You guys better be glad that Israel does not react to things the way the United States does.  Because if that were the U.S. sitting in that spot in the Middle East, and along came all those countries attacking us, you would be talking about the new states of Egypt, Syria, Lebenan, Jordan, Iraq, and Saudi Arabia that the U.S. just added to the Union.  I for one am pretty pissed off that the world tries to hold Israel back from properly defending itself.

Peace (through the use of Global Thermal Nuclear Warfare, if need be)  

-GhostSniper Out.

haha

Ssickboy that has to be one of the best ways to sum up the conflict i have ever seen... it just fits so bloody well.



Hahaha. good one. oh... oh you were seriouse? you mean you actually believe this shit? OMG you really are f*cking insane! Well hell we should be properly arming the Palistinians so we can help them defend themselves. lol

ok lol well " I for one am pretty pissed off that the world is not helping the palistinians from properly defending themselves."

But hey its all Great. Israel just murdered two more palistinians, the religious and political leaders of hamas... And there are now 1000more people wanting to take their shoes and pick up their weapons to contine the fight. But israel is so fucking short sighted they don't see they are just making it worse...

But its all fine... Israeli blockades and the wall are helping turn the west bank into a open prison... hey you could call it a getto i guess... funny that. a group of people in a enclosed guarded enclave... ghetto... germany .... WWII.... the comparison has been made several times before.