Appeal to banning Rabbit from season

[-ViP-PUNiSHER]

How did you come to the ruling of banning Rabbit for this season?  Did multiple people make this descision or just one person?
If you actually think this guy cheats why not perform a cheat test on him?  I don't see how you can ban someone if you don't even know if this error was caused by lag or not.  I can tell you from Map making expierence a "wall hack" is not even possible.  When building a map the walls, objects, and ground are all grouped together and tagged as 2d collidable which means nothing can pass through them.  If a person had a "wall hack", their bullets and nades would go through everything, their nades would never even make contact with the ground, they would just fly through it.

[BTs_GhostSniper]

Each of the admins looked over the replay and investigated all the information that was available and then each cast a vote to either ban him or not.  The overwhelming majority of admins voted to ban him.

[RoeM]

Hmm, most of the players I have talked to today and yesterday (including some of the ones that origionaly brought the charge) now have their doubts or they think he is not guilty altogether. Isn't there a 'beyond reasonable doubt' rule that should fairly be applied?

Sure I thought he was guilty when I first saw the replay, thats why i immediatly kicked him from the clan. I for one do not want to be asociated with cheaters. But after talking to some experienced players and getting rabbits personal explanation, I seriously believe, and I'll put my own  reputation on the line, that Rabbit is innocent. I understand that some clans might not wat to CB us anymore now that i let Rabbit back into clan, but I rather have a clean consious and back Rabbit, rather then to go the easy way and save my own (or my clans) reputation by booting him.

It seems likely to me that there is no such thing as a wall hack that lets u shoot through a posts and walls at a spot where no glitch exists, especially on the origional game maps. (ie. how can u reverse the normals on the wall plane after it has been IGOR'd? it cant be done, only texture changes can be made)

If anyone can repeat or demonstrate with a replay what rabbit did, plz come forward, untill then lets asume it was cauzed by the support gun lag and give Rabbit the benefit of the doubt. I would hate to see an innocent player fry.

RoeM

[crypt]

A cheat test cannot prove his innocence now, because if he had any cheats, he could turn them off.

[deumrabbit]

the thing is crypt, i dont, so stfu

[*DAMN Hazard]

Change your tone rabbit he is just making a point, and a good one. The only way you are gonna get yourself out of this one is if you take people's points against you and argue them rationally. So you stfu or plead your case.

[RoeM]

I agree lets keep emotions in check

[cO.twist]

if it's possible, then *DAMN should have someone replay stronghold, doing what rabbit did.  That way we all know if it is or isn't possible.

[RoeM]

I agree and think that is a fair request Twist.

[Macuber]

Change your tone rabbit he is just making a point, and a good one. The only way you are gonna get yourself out of this one is if you take people's points against you and argue them rationally. So you stfu or plead your case.

Personally I do not expect this tone response from one of DBL's Staff members.

I'm a member of this community and have been reading these posts of Rabbit's situation. One side shows one effect, while the other side shows another effect. Common sense shows that if this had been a "cheat", Rabbit would have had more unexplained kills than normal. He may have shown us indirectly a "glitch" that could have happened to any of us. I would be saying this if this had happened to ANY one of you. I understand the great concern of the DBL Gamers of the "Cheats" that may be arising. I will though stand behind Punisher, Roem, Twist, and Ace and request that Rabbit be taken off Season 11 Ban if this can be tested. I would do the same for any member of any of the Clans here if I felt they had been wronged.

[(SiX)Sheixhundt]

Some have pointed out that i dont play ghr and as such dont have an opinion here, and Ill disagree by this...when we used a clip to convict, we made SURe that we had TONS of examples behind the public postings to prove that it wasnt a one-off situation of some other visual misleading clue. Typhy was an example..we had TONS of footage, not one small clip on which to base this, as we felt that it would be appealed..and wanted to DROWN the fight in evidence.  Im seeing doubt here, (and not just from his clanmates, and friends) and of my little knowledge of the game, the tone of the defense in addition to punishers vid, in addition to the LACK of multiple positive examples, inaddition to a KEY criticial peice of evidence that i have not heard discussed other than once..and that is...

If that was a positional lag issue and not a wall hack, that  seems to fit perfectly with the rational and calm explanation that Rabbit put forward.  If he is wall hacking where is the need to crouch, dodge or crouch to reload? Where are the other examples during that replay where he could and likely WOULD use that hack again?  If covered by knowledge of a wallhack, there would be no tendency to dodge or crouch becuase there would be no need.   

Also, to a person, every single person that i have confronted all screamed and cussed, and got loud, and got angry, and vehemetly and violently argued against the lack of evidence(even when there was plenty) their honor, and took the accusers motives to task.  I havnt seen this here, and the explanation seems ENTIRELY plausible. in addition, the explanation of the crouch for being near the top of the ramp seems acceptable from my uneducated vantage point.

(ALL THIS SAID REALIZING IM NOT AN EXPERT,) but theres a condition of doubt that i would say is met here. I would like to know from others that play, if positional lag has ever been encountered here before? And I am curious on the accounting of both the peaceful and plausible explanation of the crouching and reloading. He says he was near the top of the ramp, able to peek over, and visble if standing. That meshes to me.

That said, i am NOT throwing stones at the efforts of the admins or the posters. (I SWEAR TO GOD) Shit, objective consideration is a GOOD thing, and... Cheating is serious, and my interest here, is one of fairness. (as was admin expressions of Doubt with our IGuard when dealing with text hacks that could PLAUSIBLY have an explanation that was NOT hack related-we changed our policy to reflect these concerns, and could not uphold bans in some cases)

I would COMPLETELY give in (to 100% agree with admins) if I heard some vets address this crouch issue...and positional lag. Im looking at this from merely the fairness issue, and if hes cheating, then FUCK HIM, if not, dont use something circumstancial...show MULTIPLE examples...as we have on typhy...

And in addition, his initial tone was conciliatory, mellow, and point by point, so dont just jump his ass, becuase its such a hot button issue...consider the points he made... are they valid? To me they COULD be....(I would have counseled the posters to gather more examples to avoid this exact discussion), although i entirely understood why he posted..it looks fishy. No Doubt.

Even if just to educate me on whats possible or not, can some vets discuss how and why he would need to crouch if his story wasnt accurate, or why there arent other examples of that hack in his play. Typhy used his in every round for an entire day and we had LOTS of proof of it..

thanks for your patience.

[theone]

Well I guess it's my turn. Be the host of the game in question. I going to tell u want I saw in game. After my last death in this game I moved over to the view of Destroyer using in game voice I told him where I thought rabbit was. He moved and from thru and nade. At the wrong corner. I told to go inside and get him. As he came around the corner and shot it looked to me as if rabbit was shooting through the wall. Destroyer fired and killed rabbit. I then ask destroyer if he was shooting thought (in game voice) the wall he said yes I then ended the game. Before I did rabbit left the game (he heard what I asked).

That is what I saw destroyer and me are family and I will let him say what he saw. But I know what I saw.

As for the ban. I realize there is room for error in the replay and in fact I may have seen what I think I did. I feel the one season ban is a fair one (he may not be guilty) it sends a message to all the cheater that u can be caught and dealt with.

My opinion

I feel rabbit has a hack of some type. I don’t base this on one replay I have a few where rabbit makes a shot that at best would a very hard shot (BUT CAN BE DONE). I base my opinion on what I saw and heard f rom others. The fact that over 15 people Imed for the link to download the replay in min of me saying I had this. And over 50 download in one day over 100 now.  Says to me that im not alone (rabbit is REALLY this good or he’s a cheater).  I can what to see rabbit game play now that this is out there. Is he going to be this good or not?

[cO.libre]

you can't say that your extra evidence would be that he hits amazing shots.

i'll go to a recent example .. it was a cb, cO v. z][t .. i was on a cliff on ghost town and stripes was behind a rock. i was for sure not on map, so i sat there and waited for stripes to come out of the corner of the rock and unsuspectingly get shot my me. instead, he peeked over and landed a perfect shot on me. i know stripes is a good player and i respect that he can hit a shot like that. i don't think it is fair to move to the easy cop-out and come to a conclusion that he is a hacker. this is the same for rabbit .. just because he has made some amazing shots here and there where YOU think that he shot through a wall or could see through it, does not mean that you should ban him.

these shots that "at best would be a very hard shot (BUT CAN BE DONE) are some that, in my opinion, would cause someone to think twice and automatically go to the reason that makes you feel better; makes you feel like it wasn't your fault that you died. the reason being that he is a hacker. do you really think this is fair?

banning a player for a circumstantial "hack" and for hitting great shots in many other games is a unjust ruling and definently needs to be thought over by the *DAMN admin team.

until i see more evidence like sheix was talking about i will be convinced, but until then, admins, you made the wrong choice. you not only handicapped =US= of a great player and ruined his reputation, but you made the ghost recon community one step closer to one where no one can be trusted and any great move is looked at as a hack. you have brought it closer to a community where no skill is involved in anything a player does .. it is all their hacks.

all evidence that you have of rabbit and his circumstantial hacks needs to be held onto and no action needs to be taken until he is proven a true hacker.

The fact that over 15 people Imed for the link to download the replay in min of me saying I had this. And over 50 download in one day over 100 now.  Says to me that im not alone (rabbit is REALLY this good or he’s a cheater).  I can what to see rabbit game play now that this is out there. Is he going to be this good or not?

and to you, theone, just because people wanted to see proof doesn't mean they all, in the end, thought that rabbit was a hacker. so your statistic there doesn't really prove all that much.

[c| Spetsnaz.]

Can anyone prove that a hack of the aforementioned nature exists for GhR?

So this dude allegedly has possession of a GhR hack that has eluded the mainstream GhR world until now?
V

[deumrabbit]

"Destroyer fired and killed rabbit. I then ask destroyer if he was shooting thought (in game voice) the wall he said yes I then ended the game. Before I did rabbit left the game (he heard what I asked). "

Ok how could I have heard you, you were on TEAM CHAT... and I was on the opposite team. I left the game because it was laggy and that you stopped the game when we were in the middle of it.

[Tin]

I think that Rabbit is innocent. Once I had a similarly situation on that map. I moved up the ramp of the northern entrance of the stronghold. ( I had the last guy of the enemy team on map. He was moving towards the stronghold, I wanted to take him out while  he was moving) So I went up the ramp and pulled a whole mag in that guy. I was like wtf is going on - he just didn't die. Then my screen froze. I noticed that I was the whole time downstairs shooting against the wall.

The diffrence between my and rabs situtation is that he could still kill ppl I couldn't.
But he was on another ramp. I post this cuz you guys often mentioned this never happend before. It happend to me and it could happen to anyone, I think. But usually no one goes up any ramp of the stronghold - it's just too dangerous. I mean not much ppl had even t he possibility to experience this situtation. In my opinion it's rare game bug.

Don't ban him if you don't have tons of proofs, like sheix already mentioned.

Tin

[spike]

Change your tone rabbit he is just making a point, and a good one. The only way you are gonna get yourself out of this one is if you take people's points against you and argue them rationally. So you stfu or plead your case.

Personally I do not expect this tone response from one of DBL's Staff members.

I'm a member of this community and have been reading these posts of Rabbit's situation. One side shows one effect, while the other side shows another effect. Common sense shows that if this had been a "cheat", Rabbit would have had more unexplained kills than normal. He may have shown us indirectly a "glitch" that could have happened to any of us. I would be saying this if this had happened to ANY one of you. I understand the great concern of the DBL Gamers of the "Cheats" that may be arising. I will though stand behind Punisher, Roem, Twist, and Ace and request that Rabbit be taken off Season 11 Ban if this can be tested. I would do the same for any member of any of the Clans here if I felt they had been wronged.

Hazard isnt a DBL staff member. He can speak anyway he wants to.

[BTs_GhostSniper]

Each of the admins looked over the replay and investigated all the information that was available and then each cast a vote to either ban him or not.  The overwhelming majority of admins voted to ban him.

Also, we were able to reproduce the cheat that Rabbit used.  This topic is now closed.  Do not start another thread about this incident.