MPs Vote for University 'Top Up Fees'

[BFG]

Ok, For most of you this means nothing. But im gonna rant and rave anyway. Today the british government met to vote on whether to pass a bill allowing universitys to charge 'top up fees' to students... By a Margin of 6 votes in favor the bill was passed and now moves forward a step closer to becoming reality.

Id just like to say i think its frankly disgusting, hell we don't have the best system at the moment but the proposed plans are bull shit and just alow the 'older and better regarded' universitys to charge more, and thus close the opportunity to potential students.

EDUCATION should be an Equality. What Tony blair is hopping to pass through goverment is hypocracy, and it disgusts me. What right to the 'better off' have to a higher standard of education than any other? Forunatly i am one of the lucky few who will never have to face this, i just have the large Loan to repay. For for others there is going to be a very nasty shock when it comes to them desiring to better their education and move towards their career.

Its about Time Tony Blair got the F*ck out of Goverment and give the Liberal Democrats a chance to sort the f*cking mess out that the conservatives started and labour have almost continued

[end of rant]

[|MP|Buccaneer]

Personally, I don't see that as a bad thing.  Universities here all charge different rates for tuition and room/board.  Depends on if they are public or private, which state they are in, and even how good they are.  (not to mention charging more for upper class classes and post graduate classes.)

It's economics, pure and simple.  Universities that have better professors, smaller classes, better equiptment/tools cost more to run.  Who's paying for it?  Who should be paying for it?

To me that is simple.  The people who will reap the rewards should be paying for it.  Not average Joe tax payer, when only what, 20% of the population graduates from college?  Out of my closest 6 friends, all have master's degrees, and every one of them had to make their own way through college (scholarships, loans, grants, working ass off, etc).  All went to good, accredited schools.  Only one went to Harvard (for his MBA, and only then because work paid for it).  

I firmly believe that any student, that has earned their way into say, Oxford, is capable of coming up with the tuition to go there.  Sure, they'll be in debt up to their asses when they get out, but that's no different than the rest of us (I was some $15k in debt out of college - and unlike GhostSniper, I paid my loans off within 3 years because they were not government loans).

[onwig]

i am in 9k's worth of debt for my HND in graphic design, BFG is right our system is fooked, it basically works on how much your parents joint income is, if your parents earn 15k plus you get slated for costs, (which is a lot). This does not take into account your parents debts, whether they have more than one child (i have 2 brothers - also at college/ uni the same time as me) so there was no way they could support all of us. But back onto the main subject, yes its a heavy bill.

Once you have these debts, you only have to pay them back when you earn over a certain amount (think its 10k), then the amount you pay back is on a sliding scale as to how much you earn.

the only thing i would say is, if my wages were good i wouldnt care, but the fact is my income sucks and 9k will take me ages to pay it back.

on a personal note, i am going to start saving for my daughters education now, she is only 2 now, but i dread to think how much it will be in 16 yrs time!.

[BFG]

Start collecting those pennies onwig!

Why should those with more money get a better education? So your parents have cash sticking out off every hole but why should that give you any more right to a better education?

THe problem bascally comes down to the fact that HE is totally Underfunded. Not just the 'elite' universities, but ALL universities will introduce the 'top up fees' simply becasue they want more money!

[|MP|Buccaneer]

You even read my post BFG?  My parents didn't pay a dime of my education.  Same for most of my friends.  My parents also made too much for me to even get low interest loans (my student loans were at 13% APR, not deferred either, calculate that if you will).  None of that changes that old saying that "you get what you pay for".  Better universities should cost more, otherwise, how can they be better?

Onwig, I started that before she was born.  We've already got an education trust (even get a tax break for it) in her name with about 6 grand in it so far.  Figure by the time she's ready for college, she'll need it to be a good 100k or so.  If she's really lucky, my wife's parents are rich and will pay for her education if they are still around, and she'll have this money to get her started afterwards.  But I'm not taking any chances, and am not my parents.  I don't mind paying for her education.

[BFG]

I did bucc, i certianly did but i think we're talking on two different lines.

I firmly believe that any student, that has earned their way into say, Oxford, is capable of coming up with the tuition to go there.? Sure, they'll be in debt up to their asses when they get out, but that's no different than the rest of us

However, It is one hell of a deterant to those of us who don't have (what will be) a hell of a lot of money. Going into such a big debt is a dangerouse thing, and people simply don't want to do it. What im saying is ok you don't have to be the richest guy out there, u could be very poor and living on the bread line. Do you think for one moment though somone on the bread line is going to be ABLE to get a loan in the firt place? Let alone want to put themselves under the risk of such big loan?

The goverment took away our Polytechs... They are bascially reintroducing them now but just introducing a new level of elitism! Im all for giving universities more money, they have needed it for a hell of a long time. Ok some universities are better than other, and they are. There's Durham, Cambridge, Oxford, and others like York, UCL, Bristol etc...  And some of these collages are part of the equivelent of our Ivey League.

t's economics, pure and simple.? Universities that have better professors, smaller classes, better equiptment/tools cost more to run.? Who's paying for it?? Who should be paying for it?

Exactly though, education SHOULDN"T be about economics. its about education! We are paying for it. Pure and simple we pay. And working on the system of Reserch points those universities that are more active in research collect more money from the goverment. (its based on two elements, teaching and research)

None of that changes that old saying that "you get what you pay for".? Better universities should cost more, otherwise, how can they be better?

I don't believe money is the answer. Many members of my family work in FE or HE . Some universities are run better than others. They have better lecturers and work in ways which are more benifical to students. It dosn't ahve to be about having loads of money.

So we're setting our younger generations up for a life of debt. You go to uni, work you ass off, get a degree and go into the wide world with between 8 and 12 thousand pounds of debt over your head.... U then struggle to survive for a very long time.

Or mummy and daddy buy you a nice house and a car, pay your tutition fees and you toddle around oxford or cambridge having a jolly nice time old chap because after all it dosn't matter what the fuck your degree turns out like as daddy has a nice job for you as a civil servant!!!