Is AA the next Ghost Recon? Can the *DBL harness this power?

[.::|N| DIESEL]

Bucc-

I think the sound is obviously a big factor.  Infact, I started actually paying attention to sound more and have been more successful.  The sound in AA really does make a difference and can really be accurate at times.  

[th.Sentinel]

I agree with bucc on most parts:

- GhR has advantages and disadvantages just like AA. No need to think AA is superior. They both have flaws. Remeber one thing Ghost Recon came out for pc in 2001 that's almost 3 years ago. AA is updating all the time.

- You are right on the zoom of the weapons in GhR, although some weapons have a zoom. I like the inability to define Friend or Foe on a big distance in AA. (a quick tip: Friendly forces almost always have backpacks and a helmet)

- I like the nades in AA, specially when I try to cook of a flashbang and it explodes in my hand, because it only has 1-2 secs

- I like the grades of being wounded, but GhR has it too. Although the bleeding to dead part is a bit to much...

- The movement options on AA are superior to GhR. The different walk, crawl and run speeds are good. I don't like the rabbit jumping though, not realistic, and stupid when you try to shoot at someone. I never saw a soldier in real battle jump his way through bullets, that would be funny as hell! There should be some way that the soldier gets tired after jumping 3-4 times. Then the only option he has is to go prone.

- Objective based games don't rule out campers. It just encourages campers to camp more, to find a spot almost untouchable for the enemy but close enough to the objective to take every enemy out. Its like bucc said another form of siege.

- AA is free, but you need internet access to play it, because you have to upload every single score you make on training + you need to play online otherwise you can't play at all. GhR has single missions no need to go online. AA doesn't.

- The lack of commandmaps is certainly a bummer, not to spot enemys, but to know where to run. Specially when you have a compass on top of your head.

- The graphics on AA are great, I love'em, much better then on GhR. But as I said, AA is newer. The FPS on GhR are the same as AA I got 40-50 avarage on AA and 50-60 average on GhR.

- AA requiers a better mac, like most new games. GhR still has a bigger public because it even runs on my 300Mhz G3 and I get 20-30 fps so that's not even bad.

- On GhR its easier to switch maps. When you play AA you always play the same map, unless you wanna loose 10 min, to disconnect, find another server, connect and wait untill you can join the other game.

- You can shoot through doors on GhR and AA.

- The sound in AA is totally fucked, the sounds are nice, but the stereo is bad, really bad, I always use sounds to spot the enemy, but now I can't use it, because when I think an enemy is in front of me, he's actually standing behind me. So that's a major bug that has to be fixed. I'm gonna try to play with dolby surround this weekend see if it works. But I still need to be able to use my headphones because I can't always play with dolby surround, specially in the evening and at night.

So my opinion, AA is superior on Graphics but thats only because its newer. For the rest its almost the same as GhR. I don't like it when ppl say GhR is a piece of crap, because it was built to run on slower machines and its only a matter of opinion if you like it or not. So don't talk about GhR as it is some BS game when you don't even play it. I like AA as much as GhR, but I still play both.

th.Sent

[Typhy]

I'm pretty sure that the sound has something to do with the rushed port. The stereo and everything seems fine on PC.

Which is a better port: AA's graphics are far better, yet, my framerates are about the same. What's up with that? That alone should say which is a better port. I agree that the sound problem is a royal pain in the ass, however, I'd rather have weak ass sounds than get bad framerates on something with bad graphics ( GHR ).

About the amount of points you lose for a TK: All it is, is a game. It can't judge what happened. I've gone to jail before for things that were completly my teamates faults, however, I've also gone to jail for dumb mistakes by myself.

I hate getting TKed, especially in really bad spots ( the other day, at Insurgent Camp, I'd flanked. I was in the South East corner, just about to take out a sniper and a 203er who were laying down, when our sniper shoots me in the head ). It's a little bit comforting to know that he'll have to reconnect and probably lose his sniper spot. I've probably lost about 1,500 points sense I started playing AA for ROE. Really, that's no big deal. If I want to be a honor leech, I can gain all that back in 3 matches.

About objectives: This is a point where we disagree. What's Siege in GHR? A bit camping match. One side camps, the other side tries to get into one posistion on the map.

In AA:

??The weapons accuracy plays a bit roll in how well an objective based game works. In GHR, if I see a team looking out of an alley 100 yards away, I can drop at least the one who is peaking out, in a couple of shots from my ?ber accurate gun. Things like this make the assault much harder, and the defense more inclined to camp.

??In AA there are multiple objectives. Off the top of my head, Swamp Raid is the only map where there is only one objective. ( Admittably, some places like Weapons Cache and Radio Tower, you could stack one objective and just let the enemeys take the other.

??Grenades and Flashbangs. Whenever I'm going for the computer at Pipeline, it involves come sort of combination of smoke, grenades, or flashbangs. All that GHR has is under-powered nades that you can throw about 5 miles.

??AA features all sorts of different objectives. Let's see GHR have a scene where you have to prep a Black Hawk then throw Thermite into it, or hit it with an RPG.

AA's objectives are clearly more complete.

About shooting while running: IRL ( Paintball and Airsoft ), I almost never shoot while running, for the simple reason of the fact that there's no point. However, I can take a running shot far more accuratly than my "elite character in GHR". GHR's characters have packs on, etc, yes. I'm sure that 50lbs of gear doesn't help matters, however, even with that, I could shoot better than them.

Shooting while moving in AA isn't all that accurate. Anytime that I can, I stop and crouch down to take my shot. However, it's far more realistic than GHR. The ability to shoot while moving is one of the best ways to prevent against campers.

Jumping: Personally, I'd much rather jump than climb. When I first started playing, I hated jack rabbits. Now, I honestly could care less. If you're jumping, you're not shooting. If you give me a second where you're not shooting, you're dead. In real life, jumping isn't really used, diving, yeah, once in a while, but not jumping. Next Paintball war, in a CQC situation, I'm going to start jumping around. My only hope will be that my oponent laughs so much he can't shoot me.

I'd consider the high system requirements a good thing. Rainbow Six Eagle Watch runs ok on my 233 Powerbook. Does that mean I'd want AA's graphics to look like that, but get those framerates? Hell no. The better the graphics, the higher the requirements.

Btw, Bucc, I haven't gotten "Failed Authorization" sense 1.7.

[KoS Ultimo]

Will old clans like KOS or Fire awake, due to the close relations between Raven Shield and Rogue Spear ?

KoS coming back was already discussed on our forum... and unfortunatley with myself having a pc, I have already tried RvS. It is completley different then RS and alot less fun for me. So I deleted the game off my HD and now spend all my time playing call of duty. For me to buy a new mac just to compete with the mac community again, in a game i don't even enjoy is about the same odds as winning the LOTTO.

With all of the RS Vets anticipating a "new rs" in RVS, prepare to be let down  

[|MP|Buccaneer]

I'm pretty sure that the sound has something to do with the rushed port. The stereo and everything seems fine on PC.

It is in the port, it's mentioned on the beta site a few times.

Which is a better port: AA's graphics are far better, yet, my framerates are about the same. What's up with that? That alone should say which is a better port. I agree that the sound problem is a royal pain in the ass, however, I'd rather have weak ass sounds than get bad framerates on something with bad graphics ( GHR ).

Everyone but you seems to have a 10% or more drop in frame rates for AA Typhy.  I drop from a solid 50-60 in GhR to 25-40 in AA (with 2.0).  That's 33% to 50%+ drop in performance?  My frame rates dropped in 2.0, they didn't get better.  And since the sound is part of the port, I would say that the latest port of AA was bad.  You may think that sound isn't as important, but throwing in bugs is throwing in bugs.  

Jumping: Personally, I'd much rather jump than climb. When I first started playing, I hated jack rabbits. Now, I honestly could care less.

That's your opinion, mine differs, but they are both opinion, not fact.

Btw, Bucc, I haven't gotten "Failed Authorization" sense 1.7.

It got it when 1.9 was fresh too, so did the guys I was playing with.

Point is, AA isn't the perfect port, it has it's issues, just like GhR has it's own.  And both have been patched on many (and neither on all).

[Supernatural Pie]

GhR still has a bigger public because it even runs on my 300Mhz G3 and I get 20-30 fps so that's not even bad.

I refuse to believe that. Why? I get 20-30 FPS on my G4 700.

[.vooDoo.]

I agree ultimo, but look at how shitty of a game ghr is but yet it is the highest played game on gameranger. I think once RvS is released we will see ghr dissapear.

And Buc...I know you love a good debate but you know as well as I do that A'A owns Ghr and only after playing A'A did I realize how crappy ghr is.

[|MP|Buccaneer]

Don't agree with you at all Voo.  After this last release, I doubt I'll even stay a beta tester, it's pissed me off that much.

[Typhy]

I'm with Vood on this one.

Back when there were all the "RS vs GHR" debates, I'd argue infidently. However, inside, I knew I could never win; GHR was newer, better servers, better graphics, less glitches, dedicated servers. No matter how much I loved RS, this kind of argument was unwinnable.

I still like RS 100 times more than GHR, however, I'd never try and argue that RS is a better game, because the only thing that's better ( and this is, of course, a matter of opinion ), is the gameplay.

In your opinion, the gameplay of GHR may be better, but when it comes down to it, AA's a better game.

As Vood said, I have no doubt that tons of Mac people will play RvS, for 2 reasons ( 33% of it ), Mac gamers are deprived. ( 66% of it ), so many people have high expectations, and won't allow themselves to be let down.

[|MP|Buccaneer]

Typhy, don't forget that some others just wont agree with you.

Yes, it has mixed reviews on the PC side, but guess what, so did RS when I played it on the PC side.  It's also still popular on the PC side.  If I can find it (I'll look) I'd be willing to bet it's as popular or more popular then AA on PC's.  And AA's free.

I know people here that have played it on the PC and can't wait for it to be on the Mac because they loved it.  Opinions vary.

As for AA being superior, no, I don't agree because your arguments didn't hold weight.  Look back to points you made about not having to ready up, or vote kick.  Where you high or did you just forget that those things are in GhR?

To me, they are kind of a draw.  They are different games with different features.  While one has better graphics, the other doesn't have fucked up sound, while one has better default maps, the other is expandable.  For everything AA does better, it does something else worse (like not give the options for ready up or disallow vote kick).  

So yeah, while gameplay makes you like one more than the other, and different people will see things differently, I don't agree that AA is superior.

Remember, you still think RTCW is superior to GhR, and it never took off as a BL game, not even close.

[Typhy]

Uh, as far as I know we've never had an RTCW League. . .

Although, I know it'd never take off. It's not a game that lots of people in this community play. You want to argue RTCW vs GHR, RTCW kicks it's ass six ways to sunday.

In GHR, you can only "votekick" at certian times. Not during a game.

Ready up? That's not something that the two hold in common. You don't have to "ready up" in AA. Or are you refering to the fact that in GHR, the server can have a start-timer on it? Yes, that's true. But half the time, the start timer doesn't work because someone's crashed.

[|MP|Buccaneer]

Uh, as far as I know we've never had an RTCW League. . .

Which is half my point

Although, I know it'd never take off. It's not a game that lots of people in this community play. You want to argue RTCW vs GHR, RTCW kicks it's ass six ways to sunday.

Which is probably two less then it kicks AA's ass.  I think RTCW is much better than AA.  But does that make it "superior by fact"?

In GHR, you can only "votekick" at certian times. Not during a game.

And the host can stop a vote in GhR, and stop voting at all.  More options = superior in my book.

Ready up? That's not something that the two hold in common. You don't have to "ready up" in AA. Or are you refering to the fact that in GHR, the server can have a start-timer on it? Yes, that's true. But half the time, the start timer doesn't work because someone's crashed.

The host can also click the start button at any time Typhy.  You still seem to either not know, or just ignore some things GhR has.

[Noto]

One more post and Bucc will hit 1600!  wOOt!  

I hope it will be a flame...

.::|N| Noto

[KoS.Rebel]

Do i even dare comment on this again? I think so....Ive heard bad things about RvS from many pc people. But the thing is that we losers on macs dont get many games like pc does so when a new game that has multi comes out its a hit. Even games that arent very good ( GhR ) are still hits cause they are NEW and on mac a new game comes out every say year. I dunno what to expect, maybe it will be the fps lag of AA combined with the shitty gameplay of GhR. Good God lets hope not.....i might just stick with AA but then again, raping on XboX r63 was fun......

[crypt]

RS3 for xbox is a great game, I don't think they even wanted it to be similar to RS or R6, I like the style of RvS. It looks like a winner in my book, if it runs smoothly on my computer.

[|MP|Buccaneer]

Not all of them are winners on the mac Rebel.  RTCW wasn't.  MoH never took off on Mac like it did on PC (maybe do to a shitty port).

[BFG]

I just don't see how anyone can be competative on a FPS with a consol and not a keyboard and mouise.

GhR is not a good game? RtCW wasn't a bad game.. it wasn't great but certainly the MP was good fun (medics LT's etc... in some ways more tatical than AA regarding teams helping themselves out).. MoHaa .... Good fun.. Graphics were perhaps lagging somewhat... yeah bad port. again the SP is ok to pass a few hours away.

I think people are really trying and the port qualities are definatly getting better in some case's. Look at the fantastic work done on Halo -  Westlake have put a lot of effort into getting the best out of the engine, and they have brought pixel and vertex shaders in the game ? a first in Mac history. Thats really a pretty great step forward for us.

Its not that our hardware is no lacking... half the problem i think is the quality of the ports and the crazy ass shit Graphics API codes used by Micros... Micr.. Sorry i hate saying that word.. the company that is very small and very hard

[crypt]

I just don't see how anyone can be competative on a FPS with a consol and not a keyboard and mouise.

Console FPS games can be every bit as competitive as Mac or PC games, with a mouse and keyboard. For instance, with everyone having the same specs and broadband (E.G. Xbox Live),  it turns into a true test of skill, instead of seeing who is wiling to spend more money to play games. Also with everyone having voice, there isn't a time in the world when you can't trashtalk anyone you choose.

RTCW was a great game, I played it many times, just not on GR where it never took off.