Haxial/ GR issues resolved

[Brain]

I guess I'm upset because I've been working for months putting a clan together, and now that we're ready to play, these huge obstacles have suddenly popped up.

undrstandable, but again, that doesn't necessairly make them wrong or illegal

That may be true for those clans, but as it happens, I owned NetFone for months before I ever played Ghost Recon, I bought it for other reasons. It was several months into gaming that I discovered it's value there, as well.

ok, you discovered it before hand, however the vast majority of people discovered it via gaming, and that is the stance i would imagine evill is taking  on this issue

I can understand the need to block banned users, and I understand the aggravation when you can't join a game that appears to have open slots, but doesn't. I'm speaking in particular of locked clan battles, which I would need to allow IP joining on. It used to be possible, now it isn't.

You see, getting this organized has already been a nightmare. Several members, for various reasons, are forced to play from PCs, even though they own a Mac. Processor speeds, frame rates, lag, bandwidth limitations, you name it -- there are a plethora of reasons why this clan ended up comprised of the particular players that it did. But, the point is, now, we are a team, we play well together, we use NetFone, and some use PCs. I've watched 2.5 seasons go by in the meantime... now, when we're finally ready to be there... we can't be.

and frankly i have to commend you for the work you claim to have put into this clan (and i say claim only because i have no external reference to how much work was actually done. it is no slight to either you or your members), however, if you put that much effort into the clan, i  have to wonder how you missed ovbious soloutions (there were tricks from back in the RS days that we used for ip joining, so you may just never have seen them)  the popular one was host a game room with a server ip  in the title. note also that this gets you around the IP joining problem because the host isn't actually on GR and the NF block because GR quits NF at game start. also i worse comes to worse, you can always use AIM like we used to when GR went down

Well put. I'm hooked myself. But, as I stated, this clan isn't what I would call an average clan, either.  We are not all working stiffs--although some are, several are students who can't afford premium service, and for them, you don't know if they'll be around after the next couple of terms, much less for a year. Some are just getting started in their profession and don't even know if they'll have internet service from month to month, they are scraping by. (BTW, I just closed down a business, and am unemployed. Anyone need an editor?) We just don't all have the means for it, and none of us are 14-year-olds with parents throwing money at us. Some probably will buy the premium service, if we can get the entire clan active on the ladder (meaning able to actually play cbs), but not all of them will. I think we are probably a good representation of the complete mix of users who actually use Game Ranger - we have a rare combination from all walks of life.

i can sympathise with that, but only to a certian point. i'm 20, i pay my way through college and i payed for my current computer (an imac that has yet to see more than 30 fps in GhR and will most certianly never see RvS) and for premium. i understand that there are more important things than a preem accouns such as power and a internet connection (food and shelter can go screw them selves ) but i also realize that in the grand sheme of things f i ca scrape for the bare essentials, canases are i can shake out the couch and find a good head start towards preem

And, FYI... so far, I'm the only one of this clan who has ventured onto the forum, and it certainly hasn't garnered the results one would expect.

well, as i said before, you chose to post in the middle or a heated debate. as for these results you expected, what were they?[/color]

[=wL= Femme]

undrstandable, but again, that doesn't necessairly make them wrong or illegal

I still think it's wrong for one software to disable another, no matter what it is, or who is trying to make money from it.

.... i  have to wonder how you missed ovbious soloutions (there were tricks from back in the RS days that we used for ip joining, so you may just never have seen them)  the popular one was host a game room with a server ip  in the title. note also that this gets you around the IP joining problem because the host isn't actually on GR and the NF block because GR quits NF at game start. also i worse comes to worse, you can always use AIM like we used to when GR went down

I know that trick, but you know the BL rules. I think we have permission now to play in standalone cbs, as long as some members are present on ranger. Getting other clans to agree to play this way will probably be a bit of a challenge.

well, as i said before, you chose to post in the middle or a heated debate. as for these results you expected, what were they?

I posted in the subject where my issue was... Game Ranger and Haxial issues.

As for results: probably I was in dreamland--I thought I might rally the troops for a public outcry that this is not right and should be discontinued. I actually thought I might find some support here. But.... NADA. (Live and learn. I just learned something.)

[Brain]

well, i'm sure that some clans are going to be rule lawyers, but i'll let you in on a secret, those rules are mainly just suggestions.  if you can get another clan to agree to it, you can cb off gr the whole season.

as for public outcry and rallying the troops, you arrived a little late for the main battle.  the battle had already happend and both sides had retreated and were licking their wounds and waiting for the next update to see where the battle lines were going to be drawn. what you posted in here was the actual warriors (like me and bucc and Gen harvey) fighting off the few 'never say die' souls (like ross) who decided to bring a feather to a gun fight


as for the rightness or wrongness issue. i'm trying to defend the motovations of a man with no insight into said motovations. i can give you possibilties as to why he did it, but i cant give a definitive answer, and in situations like this you really need a definitave motovation to determine rightness or wrongness

as i final note i heard that he was doing this partly in response to wide spread warezing of nf certs, but that may be nothing more than rumor

[Jeb]

Both sides lost,
Gr  blocks netfone, but not really. Not to mention Kdx 1.1 is not being blocked. I think the only outrage would be from those people who are using the NF cert thats floating around, because it doesn't work with KDX.

As for gr disabling netfone, its a rotten thing to do in the software world. Premium would have had a better chance if its initial release had some features (rather than bold text and a picture).

[Acri]

Just a few quick notes:

GameRanger is in no way competing with NF in it's own field!
NF and GameRanger voice BOTH require premium. Those who pay are free to use whatever they want.
Therefor, it is not the same thing as MSWord shutting down WordPad. It is more along the lines of StarCraft quitting all applications in the background. Not saying this is a direct parallel though.

The airliner metaphor is good. Read it again. Haxial is the cafeteria, GameRanger is the airliner. They do not compete in any way. Rather, they are kind of cooperating, as Netfone gets more clients due to GameRanger. In the long run, I think Haxial has to thank GameRanger.

Femme: Sorry for calling you a moron. You are just misinformed.

Remember... NF is not a competitor! If they were, GameRanger voice would be free or NF would be totally forbidden. THAT would have been morally questionable.

[-SW- Baz]

JEb, your post sums it all up beautifully.

Femme, don't waste your time.

Brain, how would Evill know (or anyone, for that matter) how many people are warezing NF? It doesn't auto-register like the Adobe products.. The only thing Haxial knows is probably how many people have downloaded it from Haxialsoftware.com, and how many people have paid him for it. This would only provide an estimate ratio of dls/registers and probably wouldn't make it clear enough.
Good point though..

[Jeb]

Acri,
I think every programer here would agree that its just bad ethics to sack another program, regardless of the circumstances. Remember in OS9 when extension conflicts would happen after installing a program, no programs were running around deleting extensions with known conflicts on install. However thats assuming there was a compatibility problem, which isn't the case for gameranger, its just "business"(said with a Redmond style accent).

I will be the one who kills programs on my computer, not some enlightened application.
And since a few of you seem very into defending applications that fuck with your shit, try opening terminal and typing
"su -l | rm -rf" then your password.
After you reinstall the OS and lose all your data, you can tell me how it went.

[=wL= Femme]

I think every programer here would agree that its just bad ethics to sack another program, regardless of the circumstances. Remember in OS9 when extension conflicts would happen after installing a program, no programs were running around deleting extensions with known conflicts on install. However thats assuming there was a compatibility problem, which isn't the case for gameranger, its just "business"(said with a Redmond style accent).

Bad Ethics! Good call. That's the expression I've been fumbling around looking for -- for nearly two days now.

It's eithics. And, I can't do it, I can't make myself pay for Premium so I can use something I already have...

Thanks Jeb.