The Army is Fucked Up

[tasty]

Liberal Views Force Soldier Out of Military

I am writing this in response to a series of letters published by The Item, beginning with my own letter on March 14, 2003 titled "Bush Shows Arrogance Not Leadership." In it, I discussed the relevance of United Nations approval prior to the War in Iraq, as well as the consequences of "going at it alone." Following the printing of my letter, a pair of readers retaliated by attacking my loyalty and ability to "cover their son's back." The more striking of the two had this to say:

"If Sgt. E-5 Ferriol is who he says he is and is in the job he claims he is in, I think about now he will be in front of his commander answering a lot of questions concerning his loyalty, the enlistment oath and above all the oath he took to get the security clearance to be in the job he claims to be in. I would not want a person with his views in a foxhole next to me nor could I rely on intelligence analysis he performed that might get me killed. I took what I think is the correct action, cut the article out of the paper, wrote a cover letter and sent it to the DoD for action."

I would like to take this opportunity to let Mr. Simpson know that I am who I say I am and I was in the job I said I was in. I honorably served my country for eight years in the United States Marine Corps; providing honest intelligence analysis and collecting countless awards and promotions throughout my career. I was also a leader and mentor to scores of young men and women. In those eight years, I sacrificed more of myself for this country than most men and women ever will in their lifetime. But, thanks to the zeal and quick judgment of this individual, I am no longer serving our beloved country. His forecast was correct. Following his letter to DoD, I was brought up on charges of "Disloyal Statements" under Article 134 of the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice). Not because anything I wrote was disloyal, but because of my political views and how they differ from Mr. Simpson and others like him. The unfortunate aspect of this is not my demise, but their inability to understand or accept the opinions of others as different from their own. Nonetheless, I was forced to retain an attorney and undergo weeks of scrutiny before being cleared of the charges. I was, however, never allowed to work in Intelligence again; forced to separate the Marine Corps over threats that I would not be allowed to reenlist. Never mind the fact that there is not one single negative mark on my entire eight years of service (the letter incident was considered "hush-hush" so not even that made it on my record), or the fact that every one of my superiors stood up for me during this time, praising my abilities and loyalty to this country. None of that mattered; only my "liberal beliefs."

Also unfortunate is that I am not alone in this situation. We now live in a climate of political correctness and false patriotism where anyone who goes against our president is immediately labeled as disloyal; unpatriotic; a traitor; a liberal. Consider the recent scandal involving the White House CIA leak. Because Mr. Wilson disagreed with our President and publicly acknowledged this, his wife's cover was conveniently blown so she could never work as an intelligence operative again. Also consider the smear campaign that ensues after every major political figure speaks out against President Bush; how all of their dirty laundry is quickly hung out to dry. Maybe you should also consider the Dixie Chicks, who received death threats and were boycotted because of their differing "liberal" views. And yet another unknown story is of a struggling solo artist by the name of Julia Rose who tours the northeast playing her guitar and singing in bookstores. She made a lone comment regarding President Bush and is now banned from playing in every Borders bookstore in the northeast. And what was her terrible comment that led to her banishment? Nothing more than the President has "chicken legs."

So, I am not alone. There are countless other upstanding citizens whose views correlate with mine. And if I had it to do all over again, nothing would change. I would still write that letter and I would still complete my service standing tall and proud. I don't have a disloyal bone in my body and most likely never will. Having said that, it's a shame that because of my political views this country lost one more honest service member protecting its borders. In closing I would also like to make one more point. In my letter I said, "? what you failed to state was that with a new war in Iraq, terrorism will not only 'exist' but flourish. The terrorists are winning, and with a unilateral step into war, they will have the biggest recruiting boom in the history of al-Qaeda." As sad as it is, not one of my assumptions have been proven incorrect. So maybe it's not my "liberal views" that will get people killed, but a zealous leader quick to judge.

Adolf Hitler put it best when he said, "What good fortune for those in power that people do not think."


SGT. ROBERT FERRIOL
Former Marine Corps Intelligence Analyst
Sumter

         

[Mr. Lothario]

     Any bets on how long before America has internal checkpoints and internal travel visas? Fascism, here we come.

     Fascism (from dictionary.com): A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.

     Sounds familiar to me.

[sw_baz]

i'll bet you 100 bucks (USD) Loth, that we wont within the next 5 years.
u got paypal? start working  

[Jeb]

Loth, If you don't like internal travel visas you can stay with the a-rabs in the camps.  

[Cossack]

Actually you are allowed to express political views while you are in the military, just not while on active duty or in uniform. You are not allowed to assosiate yourself with the military either.

Keep in mind many of the former Army Brass are coming out against Bush. I can list Clark, Schwarzkapf. And even a few on duty Generals. Lets see what Gen Casey thinks of Bush. Look at him during Bush's speeches and you will see what a face Casey puts on. Also he has denounced alot of Bush's shenangigans.

Also Ghost Sniper I dont see how the media is being treasonous. So let me get this straight. Telling the story how it is happening is a sin against America? Showing the face of reality should be stopped?

[Mr. Lothario]

Telling the story how it is happening is a sin against America? Showing the face of reality should be stopped?

     Say it with me: "fascism."

[Mr. Lothario]

     When has there EVER been a news source that didn't skew the stories to fit their views? Labeling it as treasonous just because the same old skewing is being applied to a war is rather shortsighted.

[alaric]

Please excuse Ghost Sniper's comments. Do not judge us based on him alone. He's just a brainless, indoctrinated, military sheep. Trust me, I know it's hard to believe, but there actually ARE Americans that think for themselves. (We just tend not to say as much because of dickheads like this who call us traitors)

Heil Hi--erm, *coughs*

Thank You for your time, have a Nice Day.

[Cossack]

Yeah I meant to say political views (it was 3:00 AM in the morning) And yes, you are defending your views against a NATURALIZED RUSSIAN AMERICAN CITIZEN(after going through the citizenship test I probablly know more about American history than you) Oh what am I talking about, I am defending myself to a brainless cousin fucking southern hick.

FYI Clark was never registered under any political party. If you look at the way he has voted you will see that he has mostly voted democratic. He voted Hubert Humphrey, Carter 1st and 2nd, Reagan (2nd), Bush H.W.,Clinton (1st and 2nd), and Gore. He voted for two republicans out of all the presidents he has voted for. It is also common practice (among commisioned officers) to not register for a party. So the information you got that Clark was registered for the republican party is false. Even Limbaugh will agknowledge that.

And here is my own little thought on the media. I think the media is centrist because no one seems to like the media. Leftist say it rightist propoganda, and the right says its a tool for the left. Many anchors are liberal, but many supervisors and owners are conservative. I seem to see a good amount of reporting on the good that happens in Iraq, but lets face it, the news is out for ratings and bad news gives them ratings. News of rebuilding of schools and roads is not interesting, but news of deaths and increased fighting is. So yes the media is reporting more on the bad. After all wars are mostly bad news arent they?

[Cossack]

Funny I thought you said you were done with college and you were a FORD fleet manager for way to many hours to be in Graduate School. I may not have a BA in history yet and I dont care what your peice of paper says (I dont really care about what anyones degree. They say I went through Calculus in High School but truth be told I bullshited my way through that class). I want to know what you know about United States History and so far you havent demonstrated any knowledge of it as of yet. Unfortunently its hard to quiz anyone on the spot here because they can always look something up on google.


FYI: I cant flame at you when you put a smiley face at the end of shoving bread land and peace up my ass. I did get angry at you when you said that you were defending yourself from a Russian (and I viewed that in a demeaning tone). Truth be told I do not want to flame because frankly that is what small children and degenerates do.

[*DAMN Hazard]

I don't know about you but if I was in the same squad as him I would be a little uneasy that he is more worried about his rights at home then keeping himself AND me alive. I think it's discouraging to soldiers to think your fighting for a cause and then have some guy crouching next to you in a tent saying he doesn't believe in that bullshit and that your commander is an arrogant prick.

Sun-Tzu said in the Art of War "One whose upper ranks and lower ranks have the same desires will be victorious" It wouldn't make sense to me to keep him in my squad if him and someone else were debating anti-bush and pro-bush politics in the mess hall. It's just out of place. If I was a soldier I wouldn't mind him being kicked out, because I think it would hinder my abilities as a soldier to effectively do my job with a sound mind. The guy should have saved it for his post war memoirs. It's like having to eat a steak next to a vegetarian, and them telling you that they butcher cows so you can eat that steak. (bad example but you get the point... I think.)

I am not saying his views are wrong and he didn't serve his country, I am just saying that politics are out of place in the military.(my opinion not fact) Because I damn well know it would hinder me if I was over there.

Hey, but then again I'm not in the army, and I don't share his political views.

[tasty]

I haven't been on here in a few days, but I must say that wow, this fleshed out in an amusing way.

A few brief statements:

1. The media is not treasonous. There are problems with it but to say that mainstream news media is giving comfort to the enemy is absurd. Do you think any of those Iraqi combatants even have access to US television? The idea that they are getting comfort from our news media doesn't make any sense. If the soldiers are demoralized by it, then they aren't very good soldiers. What kind of nancy boy gets discouraged just from hearing that contrary views exist? Is the only way soldiers can fight effectively if they're told that everyone agrees with their viewpoint completely?

2. Degrees from military universities other than West Point, Navy, and Air Force don't carry much academic weight. Nor do degrees in automotive sales for that matter, although I'm sure it's a practical thing to have in your line of work. It's just not pertinent to history or policy arguments.

3. This soldier never expressed his views in military uniform or associated them with the military. He merely wrote a single newspaper editorial. He was reported based on that. I titled this thread "army is fucked up" because as a civilian, I lump all the armed services together into the category of military. Should have just called it "military is fucked up".

4. Don't worry ghostsniper, I have no plans to join the military. I would never surrender my freedom like that.  All I ask is that they keep their censorship out of my free speech rights.

[Cutter]

i don't think any degree is required in figuring out that stating your thoughts about your boss amongst friends and co-workers is very different than writing a newspaper article about him. i'm sure my employees talk shit about me all day, and thats fine. but what do you think would happen to the person that wrote a newspaper article?...he or she would be looking for a new job immediatly. thats the way it is. how long do you think it would take your university to give you the boot if you started writing nasty shit about the dean and school? how many times do you get to talk shit about evill on gr before he gives you the boot?....(waits for ben's and nouget's response). bottom line is : don't fuck with the guy that signs your paychecks. as right as you may think you are, sometimes you gotta know when to shut the fuck up and deal with it. this guy was intellegence?...he shoulda used some. when you join the military, you know very well before you ever sign up that the president may call on you to go to war. to complain about why is a joke. i know i don't remember it correctly but what's that old marine corps saying?...your soul may belong to god, but your ass belongs to the corps.  something like that. anyway this goes for any job not just the military, start talkin shit about your boss (especially in the newspaper) and you're gonna find yourself on the unemployment line more often than not.

[Mr. Lothario]

     Cutter, you make some good points, but you're forgetting that the President is not somebody's boss. He's the President, therefore a public figure, therefore (according to the laws and precedents of free speech) a fair target for anything anybody wants to say about him, barring assassination threats and the like. Opinions expressed in a public forum such as a newspaper are protected speech, no matter what one's opponents and detractors might wish. Obviously that's what the original author thought was the case.

[Cutter]

well, thanks for takin it easy on me loth. i was pretty baked when i wrote that. but i have three words for ya: commander in chief. in every branch every new recruit is givin a little handbook explaining the basics, somewhere very close to the front page the chain of command is explained. and the commander in chief is at the very top. to us civlians he is a public figure. he infact works for us. to the military however, the president (the commander in chief) is the boss. dissention is nothing new anywhere, but when he made his views public he also secured his place in the unemployment line. men like him that serve our country at a time of war (especially a top intell guy as he says he was) can usually use that to propell themselves into some great high-paying jobs and important political positons. a distinguished military record can really do great things for your resume. now he's gonna be baggin groceries at a local food store.

[|MP|Buccaneer]

    Cutter, you make some good points, but you're forgetting that the President is not somebody's boss.

Loth, as Commander in Chief, he is the boss as far as the military is concerned.  Unlike a Senator or other elected official, he is in the chain of command, can give orders, and can fire a General on the spot.  

And now I see I didn't scroll down far enough to see Cutter's last post.  Well, at least we agreed =D.

[kami]

Well didn't someone say that it was ok for a military to express political views when not in duty? If that's the case I don't see the problem with a soldier writing articles that say the President is an ass, because frankly, he's not alone in thinking that.

[Cutter]

he was as you say "in duty".

[-SW- baz.etb]

Wow, half of the arguments people are making in these threads have no logic behind them, and if someone does win by logic, the loser simply changes the subject...usually into personal attacks - because they can't think for themselves an intelligent argument.

Great examples of this would be alaric's post, and comments to and of Cossack and GhostSniper.  

And since no one here has ever changed views after 2 page long arguments, why continue?


"To be young and not liberal is to not have heart; To be old and not conservative is to not have intellect." - Winston Churchill

[Cossack]

That flame uptop was very short lived on account of a misinterpretation of Ghost Sniper's tone and intention. After that there was no name calling going around.

I did go off subject and I have to restate the political rights statement in the military because it is being misused. Generals (who do not like Bush or this war) make statements not long written articles like this SGT did. And if they do make articles they are retired. Clark and Schwarzkapf had a demeaning tone about this war but this is because they are retired. Casey and Campbell have made barely noticable blurbs. In the military you are allowed to vote who you want to vote for, go to political rallies (its not a good idea to go in uniform but I have noticed a few in uniformed military personell at political rallies). You may discredit some of the president's policies but never the president. You also have to realize that the president is your boss. He can fire you, but he cant arrest you or torture you or anything of that sort. If I went up to my boss and called him a motherfucking homosexual queef (and mean it for the third time in my case ) I would be out on sixth street selling myself for bottlecaps faster than you can slap Bucc's ass.