Reasons for attacking Iraq

[kami]

Now in hindsight, what do you think about the reasons for the Iraq war? This article here makes you wonder if it wasn't about oil all along after all and not just a "hippie" argument

Also check this out, pretty funny, hehe.

[alaric]

I am now totally sure that this war was nothing more than a disgusting grab for oil. I've waited a long time to say this because I've been patiently waiting for my government to provide some kind of evidence to back up their earlier claims.

My patience has run out.

It has become frighteningly clear just how bold and effective the propaganda campaign of the Bush administration has been.

[tasty]

Attention to all Americans: Put down your flags, wake up, and smell the truth. The war you just got done patting yourselves on the back for was for false reasons. Doesn't this matter to anyone else (besides the minority of the minority of people that post on this forum)?

[|MP|Buccaneer]

Attention to all Liberals.  I said before the war started that I thought oil was the administrations top reason.  But I also argued it was still doing the right thing for the wrong reasons.  So I'll still wave my flag Tasty, thankyouverymuch.

BTW, some of those comments in that article can be taken more ways then one.  Be careful before jumping off the bridge with the lemmings.

[The Ghost of Bondo]

I think it has been made pretty clear by you Bucc, that what gives the war justification was that it was to protect Americans, as in Iraq posed a threat.  That reason is the one in question.  That Iraq had poor human rights, that Iraq has oil, any other reason really doesn't justify a preemptive attack.  Lacking the one justification Bush possibly could have had, the war is not justifiable.  If the UN actually had enough power to be a proper world peace-promoting organization, they would bring Bush and Blair up for war crimes.

I'd like to quote the entry from today from the book "The Path To Tranquility" by The Dalai Lama, it is a daily sayings thing...

"Anger and hatred cannot bring harmony.  The noble task of arms control and disarmament cannot be accomplished by confrontation and condemnation.  Hostile attitudes only serve to heat up the situation, whereas a true sense of respect gradually cools down what otherwise could become explosive.  We must recognize the frequent contradictions between short-term benefits and long-term harm."

I think this relates well to the issue of Bush's axis of evil.

On an unrelated note.  Thinking about the "A Vote For Nader Is A Vote For Bush" signs from 2000, I'm thinking we need a "A Vote For Bush Is A Vote For Satan" sign for 2004.

[Cossack]

Attention Americans! Dont act like the war is over yet because it isnt. There is no orginized military to take on the americans but there are many angry people with guns. Just the other day 5 American Soldiers were rocketed while riding in their jeep right outside of Baghdad. 20 clicks to the Northeast of Baghdad American military personel were evacuated from a town called "Hit" or something like that. Americans tried to confiscate weapons from Iraqis and then things began to flare up. The whole town came out and rioted. The situation was so hairy that the town garrison was evacuated. You hear of Shia riots and protests of this sort occuring in every corner of Iraq.

Lets look at Afghanistan, the Taliban controls a vast expanse. They control no main towns but many villages. To put it more accurately we control the countryside at day, they control it at night, just like in the 80s. You are not able to get to Kabul to Herat without being shot at. Hit and Runs occur on US firebases throughout the country. There was a rocket attack on a base in the mountains of Eastern Afghanistan that killed four American soldiers, four Taliban were also killed as they ran off into the Pakistani border 200 yards away. Combat is not over.

The one way you can tell if Iraq will become a democracy is if they have an anti Isreali Islamic Republic with weapons of mass destruction to defend themselves against the United States. A true democratic Iraq would look very much like Iran.

Rumsfeld and Bush declared combat over in those two nations to divert the public's attention away from the war do not be fooled. Its Vietnam and the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan all over again.

And now the United States is to go into Iran (just wait they will come up with a bullshit propaganda campaign showing how the regime "enslaves its populous" "Is developing weapons of mass destruction and plotting the doom of the world to fufill their "Holy Mission of Apocolypse" Be scared Americans, Xeres and his mighty army armed with anthrax will take over New York and kill women and children for sport if we do not declare war on them now. If America is to take control of Iran and anger the Russian and Chinese immensley. The Administration will make its case that Iran is constructing WMD. You know if they are I cant blame them. I would be scared shitless if I were Khamenei I would be developing them as fast as I can. Unlike Iraq, Iran is not forbidden by any ones law to have WMDs. Their regime has not attacked neighboring countries, their human rights is no where near as atrocious as Saddam's or Prince Abdullah's. Just wait you'll see a new travesty come to be.

[tasty]

Bucc, at the very least you have to admit this war was financially irresponsible? if you want to get more money back in your pay stubs, just imagine how much every American could have if all the time, energy, and money that was put into this massive endeavor that has netted us nearly nothing was given back to the people.

[Cow]

ugh im so tired of this war bullshit and "wake up Americans" and all of this anti-americanism, it is so fucking stupid.  Kids in my school left to go protest, "drop books not bombs" it has become a fucking fad to protest and be against America.  
  America has always acted like the worlds police and they are stopping the mass murders in Iraq.  People say that it was wrong to attack Iraq but the Iraq's in general are cheering that we saved their country from some physco ass dictator.  If it was for oil then good for America, take the oil away from that shit head, survival of the fittest.
 doesnt matter anyways next 10 years hydrogen fuel cells will be infused into the common mans commute and the middle east will be sitting on top of liquid shit.  just my rant take it for what its worth.
moooooooo

[The Ghost of Bondo]

Are the Iraqis cheering for America before or after taking shots at American soldiers and protesting the foreign occupation?

[Cow]

depends what news station you are watching =)

[Maniac]

stfu!! all this war shit is old and im sick of hearing about it eather make a thread about somthing that matters or piss off.

[Cossack n' San Antonio]

Well I got the news about the Iraqi rocket attack and the evacuation of that town outside of Baghdad from NBC. Mainstream media my freinds, actually I got the Afghanistan Firebase incident from NBC aswell. The fact about Afghan countryside being in the control of the Taliban was something I got from Pravda.ru and seen perpetuated by a few other places.

[kami]

Maniac, why don't you contribute something constructive to the conversation or fuck off. You don't have to read it you dumb shit.

[.::|N| SeRP]

We have had reasons for attacking Iraq for years, I predicted the day we got a republican president would be the day our men were shipped off to war again.

U.S News and World Report, a fairly conservative magazine predicted that Iraq would be like Vietnam both combat and length-wise. They predicted correct, we'll spend at least a few more years reconstructing the shithole of a country.

Over all it wasn't worth it.

[alaric]

Check out this very interesting article over at CNN's law division.

The author ponders the possibility of impeaching bush for lying to the American public and Congress about Iraq's WMD programs.

This is the most damning criticism of the Bush Administration I've ever read.

Some choice quotes:

President George W. Bush has got a very serious problem. Before asking Congress for a joint resolution authorizing the use of U.S. military forces in Iraq, he made a number of unequivocal statements about the reason the United States needed to pursue the most radical actions any nation can undertake -- acts of war against another nation.


Now it is clear that many of his statements appear to be false. In the past, Bush's White House has been very good at sweeping ugly issues like this under the carpet, and out of sight. But it is not clear that they will be able to make the question of what happened to Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction (WMDs) go away -- unless, perhaps, they start another war.

To put it bluntly, if Bush has taken Congress and the nation into war based on bogus information, he is cooked. Manipulation or deliberate misuse of national security intelligence data, if proven, could be "a high crime" under the Constitution's impeachment clause. It would also be a violation of federal criminal law, including the broad federal anti-conspiracy statute, which renders it a felony "to defraud the United States, or any agency thereof in any manner or for any purpose."

Let's hope this is enough to end this madness once and for all...

[The Ghost of Bondo]

Perhaps I'm forgetting, but if Bush were impeached, wouldn't we get Cheney?  That doesn't seem like much of an improvement, the whole Administration is fucked up and needs to go.  I say they throw him out and then hold a new election ASAP with the Republicans caught with their pants down for a new candidate.

I think it has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Bush Administration took shaky intelligence and against the wishes of the CIA and such, made strong claims with it.  I think it is clear there have been blatant crimes committed in that action.  And the best we can do is to hold those who committed them accountable and try to mend as best we can with the rest of the world.

If we don't punish Bush for such wild leadership, it would be to allow tyranny.

[Ace]

I think it has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Bush Administration took shaky intelligence and against the wishes of the CIA and such, made strong claims with it.  I think it is clear there have been blatant crimes committed in that action.

Care to post some support to prove this "beyond a shadow of a doubt"? I would definitely question the intelligence that the American public was given, but I have yet to hear anything that indicates where the blame falls for this faulty intelligence, be it in the CIA, the executive branch, or wherever.

[The Ghost of Bondo]

This week both Time and Newsweek have articles with some inside sources (ex-intelligence people who left because of these problems) that the Administration deliberately acted against the warnings of intelligence that the information was either unreliable or, yes, false.  Case in point, the issue about Saddam buying nuclear supplies from Africa.  According to the stories, they said flat out it wasn't true, but then he went up on his State of the Union address and said that Saddam was trying to make nuclear weapons and that was one reason why.  To use information known to be false in a speech to Americans trying to push them into supporting the war is very clear wrongdoing.

I think the problem here is that Intelligence is classified and we won't see the facts flat out.  This is when the freedom of information definately is more important than any public safety applications.  We NEED to be able to hold the government accountable for improper actions if they were indeed taken.  To hide this information would be the very tyranny that the founding fathers tried to prevent by demanding the freedom of information.