*DAMN R6 Forum

Okay, this is a vote for all members of the *DBL Community to help the admins decide if this would be a good thing to get the BL active again.  Right now we just want to know if it is something the clans would be willing to do.  $25 for each clan would probably break down to a few dollars per clan member, but the rewards for winning could be very nice depending on how many clans signed up.  Ideas for prizes have included buying the clan an AA Server for a set amount of time, Paying out cash to the winners, and buying clan members a mac game.

If we decide to do this system of "Pay to Play", we will probably only offer it on ladders that have some kind of anti-cheat software, such as America's Army and Raven Shield.

So, let us know what you think![/size]

Mercy Kill  ?

Ghostsniper....right now this league - (along with the community ?) - is dying.
Take a look at the activity everywhere, and compare it to last year, and the year before.

introducing a money-factor would be devastating.


The handling perspective.
Amount doesnt matter, But think of all the obsticles you create, by asking a clan to do a combined attribution. How should they transfer the money ? Would all the clanmembers be able to transfer money through the internet to a clanleader, that should vollect all the money and then send it to you ?
And afterewards....If they win, how do they distribute the gains ?

The fiscal perspective.
The higher you make the winner-prize, the lesser you make the original motivation for gaming.
Example :
Lets say you managed to announce a 1.st winnerprize worth of 100 dollars.
Wouldnt it be pretty obvious to all, that the hours invested in gaming suddenly became measurable with the hours they spend on making money for their living + and wouldnt it be pretty obvious that if the focus is money, they would be best off earning money in the offline world ?

What i mean is, that if you open the door called financial motivation for gaming, your prizes would have to be extremely high, in order to secure some online activity.
In the PeeCee world only very few competitions survive upon the money-based perspecitve.
"best 3 clans win a Ferrari and 20.000 dollars" in Counterstrike....you know, stuff like that.

The perspective of honor and good sportsmanship
When I am participating in all this stuff, its a little like the Olympics.
Giving money to the winners would be like killing all my real reasons to be here in the first place.
For every step i and my clan take, we would suddenly be vulnerable to accusations like "they are only in it for the money" and we would sit there practising with a feeling that noone would understand our real motives anymore, and heck...we wouldnt understand why we are her ourselves either.

All in all :

If you want to mercy kill this league : Bring in the money

If you want it to survive : Bring in something else

Best regards
| ! |  Flies









...Or would this just be the action that finally scared of the last 8-10 dedicated funplayers ?

I agree with you Flies 100%. Besides.. doesn't the Game Makers provide $$ for tourneys and such? Something else needs to be brought into DBL to liven it up.. not a pay as you go.

That's a good perspective from both of you...right now we are just trying to come up with solutions to bring the gaming back to life.  So, do you guys have any suggestions for alternative ways of making the BL come alive again?[/size]

My main concern with the idea is just that clans who don't have a chance of taking top prize won't go in for the reason of loss. I would just say don't push the DBL until after the world tourney and see how the community does with that. To bring back a new season right now may kill both.

hmm  - play for money (interesting)..

All i really wan't is some kind of Tournament instead of a season, it doesn't work - the season is only about activity. a Tournament would be good, for both GhR and RvS as we had once. A Succes...?

Regards,
Stripes

Already know my stance on this but I'll repeat.

Admins can do nothing, activity for Mac gaming in general is declining and money won't bring them back to old games like GhR and RvS that people probably don't want to return to.

Ride it out.

Because of the nature of this thread i'd like to keep it straight and narrow on the subject in hand.  Off topic posts will be deleted.

I would love to play for money!!!  I will shell out $25 right now for a chance to win or loose.  Just give me an account number/paypal and ~Po~ will pay right now.

I think this is a great idea.   ::applause::

I voted no. I agree with many of the fairness and implementation issues mentioned above. I also already paid for my computer, paid for the game, pay for my team's site and pay every month for my fast internet connection. I don't want to pay any more... even if I had the chance to win it back and then some.

Has *DAMN considered finding a sponsor(s) for the site? I appreciate the fact that there aren't any banner ads, but if selling ad space ment that *DAMN could then offer up actual awards (cash, prizes, etc.) I wouldn't mind. It would be a real benefit. I run a site that brings in about $25 a month in just Google ads. If you were to set that up or even offer paid ad placement then there'd be some revenue to play with. Of course, you'd have to open it up to more relevant and recent games, but at least the community would stay alive.

In my day job I lead the design and development of large corporate websites including many community sites. One of the important tenents that we always preach to our clients is that in order for their communies to stay active and alive they must stay relevant and up to date. *DAMN is dieing by refusing to innovate. It's become the record store in an dowloadable MP3 environment. The Atari 2600 to the PSP. The CRT to the flat screen monitor. The... oh whatever. You get what I'm saying.

If *DAMN was to show some promise of getting back to what's revelant in Mac gaming today -- not just charging me to compete in a ladder for some 5 year old game -- then I might be more inclined to support it.

i guess first we need players and they all have left GAME RANGER !!!!

So the problem is somewhere else !!! not in gaming  !!! not in DAMN league but Actualy in GR

SO lets wait and see

Constructive comments as always... ::)

p.s. How is that replacement for GR coming that you were attempting to start?

I believe it was stated that next season will be played under the current elo point system and I think that is a mistake because that system is one reason why people don't CB anymore.  For Ghost Recon some people don't CB anymore because the current system is about which clan can CB the most ends up winning the season and some clans know they can't get on GR and CB as many times as other clans.

Change this by guranteeing there will be a finals weekend and then have a season schedule where every clan must CB against the other clans in the league at least twice in a 1 week's period.  For instance the schedule would say clan "A" and clan "B" must CB twice between Feb. 1st thru the 7th.  This way every clan has its weekly schedule layed right out in front of them and every clan will CB against the other clans 2 times.  There's no more CB-ing one clan 8 times in a season and another clan 1 time, you CB them twice and then you move on to your next opponent.  If neither clan CB's in their one week period it could count as a tie on their records.  If you have an odd number of clans signed up you could even have a "bye" week for each clan during the season.  Then have the top 4 clans of the regular season CB in the DBL Finals.

This not only brings organization to a season, it allows every clan to CB the same clans the same number of times.  You no longer will have a clan during the season that CB's 20 times and one that only CB's 5 times.  Also institute a Hall of Fame where not only the clan name is listed but the people who played for that clan are listed too.  This might not be the best solution for every game but I think its an improvement upon the current system.

This kind of thing attracts the older gamers but pushes away the youngsters who can't get ahold of a credit card or the cash. Also some people just oppose paying to play games and other leagues that offer free gaming will emerge.

Maybe try this out for the FFA ladder? I think that's better cause you don't have to split the money with anyone cause if I put down cash and my teammate fucked it up it would be over.

I would rather put my money together with other mac people for a nice deticated server.

Well will see how and if anyone in this league will be good anouth to "construct" something !!!
Cause solution will not come from the league but from new games and new GR politics

and about GR its still beeing on his way, many test as been done and Data base is working fine, the score system also and the irc (easy) also the terminal script to start a game is ok but bugy and without any help from industry makers its slow but its working

Hey ghost let me know what you been doing... meybe i can help????

i'm doing not allot its pydo and maco that are mostly doing stuff and i'm sure soon they may need some help

Your progress on your new game browser had me looking back at how triage are doing with igame....well it looks like they have given up and instead produced an incredible piece of software that is a "Recipe Manager"  ::lol::

Actually Triage stopped iGame development due conflicting views on what it should be, however the project did spawn iGuard which is a good thing. Obviously you guys are ignoring BFG's red warning text, and so am I, so I'll add something on topic.

Perhaps *DAMN should try something new... you know, not just the same old stuff with new point systems, but find some great new sparkly thing. [Don't look at me like I should know]

I voted no.  I don't think adding money will help, and as noted previously it may drive younger players away.

It seems that GR and BL are linked.  In the past, the link was (at least for me) GhR.  GR provided an easy way to find good mac games, DBL provided a fun community.  GhR is being/has been replaced by AA, RvS, BF42 or a host of other games that don't really use GR. The DBL community that was pretty narrowly focused on GhR/GR is fractionalized. So,

1. keep membership active: promote teams and tournaments in new games?  Field  DBL teams into the larger (pc) world? Start up some servers ($)?

2. add new members: not sure how to do this. From a numbers/marketing standpoint you have to offer more services/support to younger (probably pc) players?

3. the clan system is no longer working?

Is a target audience, mission statement, marketing plan needed?  Sounds kinda formal.

Oops, got a little off-thread there BFG.

Mac and PC versions of GHR are not compatable therefore it is worthless to bring in PC players who would just start another side to the league, since we could not battle them.  Nice ideas if they would only work.  The clan system works its inactivity that is the problem, its not something you can do with advertising, its a god damn computer game,  an old one at that.  The only reason its still played is because your old school first Gen iMac can run the game in OS 9 still.  People haven't and can't afford to upgrade their computers so until they do and we get a new game that will bring people back to mac gaming we will have to deal with low cb numbers.  The BL is working for those who use it (obviously) and at the moment that is the best we can do.  Until a new game comes out nothing is going to work to spur activity in competitive mac gaming.

btw I am at least the 100th person to explain this in various topics on this forum.

Mac and PC versions of Ghost Recon ARE compatible numpty.

Ghost Recon is one of the rare games that is Mac/PC compatible but it only works if both players are using the same version of the game.  The release notes for the Ghost Recon 1.0.3 update even mention this.  I think we can declare this game officially dead in a month anyway since Ghr 3 comes to PC, X-Box and PS2.  I know I'd rather be playing that on X-box live or the PC than coming on gameranger to play Ghr 1.  I don't know how many people out there have X-box's and I know this site is really for Mac but maybe you should consider opening a Ghr 3 ladder for X-box users.

my bad then, they are compatible, but to further my argument (and to dig a deeper hole)
1 Obviously the Versions arent the same since 1.03 or w/e kevill came out with to make it more GR voice compatable screwed that for us.
2 How would these cb's be set up GSR?  Are you going to schedule a cb then show up for promptly?  Scheduled cb's never seem to work out (I am remembering the strife over the superfinals)
3 Pun I just can't see that working out the whole ghr3 thing for xBox and cbing.  I hate the xbox live interface with a passion though so that may just be me.

Nonsense, 1.0.3 is still cross-platform compatible with the latest version for PC.

The Ghost Recon 1.0.2b and 1.0.3 Mac versions are both compatible with the 1.4 PC version of Ghost Recon.. even when your in the main menu of ghost recon it should say 1.4 at the bottom of your right hand corner.


btw    Dark, I love your sweet muffins.

well dammit I hate being ignorant, but oh well life goes on.  Glad to know I could play with my peecee buddies.

btw ferret your sweet muffins are teh pwnzorz <3

Dark: I don't think that scheduled cb's would work either, as you say, no one seems to show up on time.  To be honest, I'm not sure that cb's work at all.  There seem to be a lot of inactive clans and clan members ({E} is probably one of the worst for this). Hence my question about the clan system.  Is participation in FFA ladders up? To answer your question about scheduling, how about setting up one evening a week as league night, kinda like bowling?

Almost all organizations have some kind of self promotion scheme.  I think "advertising" is a pretty silly solution, but some kind of active promotion of DBL would not hurt.  GS's idea of prizes is a step in that direction (ah, back to the main topic), as is the xbox idea.

I have to admit that I'm having trouble getting a grip on this.  The "marketing" ideas were just a way of trying to define the problem (and help find a solution).

playing devils advocate here, Bowling leagues dont have to deal with time differences.  NZ people  time from me is 19 hours ahead.  Europe is 6-10 ish its just would be to hard to set up a timed thing and be all inclusive.

Devil's advocate is cool.  Yeah, time zones are a challenge.  Not only the scheduling but the pings as well. I'd like to join some of the European servers but am afraid of lagging out. So maybe it's a league day.  I'm in Hawaii, so I have to get on and play right after work or it gets too late for the mainland players.  I always wondered how the members of [a] handle the time thing, they must get online in the early afternoon their time.

The bottom line, I think, is we need more people. Ghost Recon world championship?  DBL tournament team?  Devil's advocate 2 trolling for ideas.

Ghost Recon activity is going no where but down... up until this point I've been all for anything to keep ghr going another season, now it's gotten to a point where there's three clans that have played 10 or more matches (an all-time low) with 7 total clans with cbs (including 2 clans with 2 cbs).  Maybe it's time we stop holding ghr seasons and just allow clans to constantly play and submit ghr cbs just to keep a record.  The seasons aren't really going anywhere anymore.

Devil's Advocate thinks Ghr is dead and we should stop shaking and put the defibrilator away, 4 months of shaking and shocking havn't worked, if ghr isn't dead right now.  It's in a ComaTose state and its final will tells us to pull the plug.

Agreed. RIP ghost recon.  But what about the Damn Battle League? 

Don't worry about *DAMN, there's lots of cool stuff to come in the near future. Let us surprise you... ;)

I'm blaming the death of GhR on {E} and their player hording recruiting style.

Can we move on now and play some AA??!

RvS makes you faster.

You know a topic is really dead when Weak chimes in.

gsr : " I always wondered how the members of [a] handle the time thing, they must get online in the early afternoon their time."

Frog is from Panama
Tigah & Kiwi are from NZ
Roo & Dingo are from Aus
Carp & Cow are from Singapore
Lynx, Shark, Kolby, Snake, Tanimal, Lemur & Panties are from Europe
Hog & Python are from the states.

We are currently looking for members from Africa and Antartica to complete the "World Clan Domination" game we are playing. Actually gsr.... we wing it.

As for the future of the DBL, I'm sure that the remaining people on gameranger that play the games currenly "supported" by this league will come together and play the "next best thing" that comes out. And no T, it is not AA. I like the game, but I don't see the community migrating over so easily because of one reason. Gameranger. Yes you can join the game via GR but you dont get the luxery of hosting your own rooms for Gameranger only friends, clan practices, skirmishes, and other options that are available through GR. I can host AA on my mac.. but who freaking cares.

I'll be patient and still play some Ghr and RvS with the people on Gameranger that are left over and I have no complaints about that.

i totally agree. I like AA a lot, but the community is the worst. Full of 14 year old PC using cheaters. That was why [:] started it's own server. The plan was to block out everyone but the peeps we knew from GR. Too bad you all didn't follow us over.

jesus T , why do you always have to add some bullshit comment like that, people are here trying to come up with ideas and your bs complaints continue. We hord no one, and anyone that wanted to leave has, and for the most part , our clan has stuck together because we have "FUN"
    Back on track now, ya, its looking like the GHR cb thing is about over, did anyone here really think it would last forever, we all know nothing lasts forever. The real shitty thing here is the fact that the great new replacement hasnt come along yet. With the demise of GHR came the need to play something else, so  out comes , Yes,  RVS and Battlfield 1942. sure they been around a while, so what, people that have never play them b4 are starting to now. I see that as a good thing I dont knw why you wouldnt. With the other 3 platforms getting GHR 3 already, that means all that is left isa to do it for Mac, maybe it will come faster I dont know. We didnt have this problem when we came to ghr form Rogue spear because ghr was here already, this time theres a void unfortunatly, we just have to be patient, it'll happen.

Rob, you made my day with your comment. Thanks!

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=irony

Recommendations

1. Allow the Active Clans that play GHR to form a Council.
This will allow each Clan Leader to meet as a group and discuss what Mods/Maps to play.

2. Allow 1 DBL Admin to monitor The Council's Recommendations. DBL Admin recommended to monitor would be BFG because of his "Neutral" Stand. Jettison any DBL Admin that has any affilliation with a Active Clan on GHR or DOES NOT PLAY GHR.

3. No CB limitations. Just a 1 month season. At the end of the season top teams get a bye and lower teams play elimination.

Remember K.I.S.  (Keep it Simple)

How would releasing GhR 3 Solve anything [in response to some who have been mentioning it as a solution]. First and foremost the minimum requirements of GR:AW PC.

• A Pentium 4 ~2Ghz or the equivalent (2.8Ghz recommended)
• 512MB RAM (1024Mb recommended)
• DirectX: DirectX9.0c
• Video Card: Shader 2.0 card with 128 MB of VRAM (256MB recommended)
• Sound card: DirectX9 compatible sound card

To compare that to say, Doom 3:

• A 1.5 GHz Intel Pentium 4 chip or AMD Athlon 1500
• 384 MB RAM
• An nVidia GeForce 3 graphics card or better; or an ATI Technologies 8500 or better [64 VRAM]

Now you may think the difference is marginal, but those are the minimum requirements, bare minimum is more like it. One of the only things keeping GhR going right now is people getting bad FPS in Raven Shield, which minimum requirements look something like this on the PC side:

• 800 MHz Pentium® III, AMD Athlon, or equivalent
• 128 MB RAM (XP users: 256 MB RAM required)
• 32 MB DirectX 8 compatible 3D video card with hardware T&L ***(supported chipsets listed below)
• DirectX 8.1 compatible sound card
• DirectX 8.1 or higher (DX9 included on the disc)

This won't be getting any better, so let's stop looking to a next gen game to solve the problem. I don't really think there is that much of a problem, you can usually find a game to play in, and if someone want to battle so be it. There's not gonna be a magic solution to a general disinterest.

I'm so glag that I can make someones day. Do you feel warm and fuzzy, I do.

Cuber I think its an excellent idea I would go along with it, but you know how this site is run:  post a possible solution, then be totally ignored or flammed until an admin jumps in and locks the topic.  NOBODY has a perfect solution for fixing the problem but at least some people are making progress while others are more satisfied with trashing people's solutions.

I think the best solution is to get someone who knows how to design a website to start a new Battle League for the nice people that play the games and leave this one in the dumpster for the jackass's.

Guys thanks for the Input, but please keep it on track.. (cough T and Rob etc)

Punisher that feels a bit unfair and unwarranted, firstly there are some big big changes coming so people need to be a bit patient on that front, and i don't agree that proposed solutions are just ignored or flamed until its locked - most changes and alterations over the years have come from such proposed solutions. Believe it or not there are jackass's wherever you go, and a flashy and slick website a good battle league does not make...I'm loosing count of how many other leagues try and fail, all starting out with this perfect ideal which always withers and dies.

but anyway, nice input Cuber and others, id suggest if we don't get any more input this next week we can draft up some kinda conclusion on the feedback from in here and the proposed suggestions like yours.

We should just focus the league more on having fun now instead of competition... I think most of the people who are left playing RvS and GhR would agree when I say we're here to have fun.  I'm not one to come up with new and bright ideas for the league so I trust the admins to think of something good. ;D

Forget the team competition and focus on FFA.

There aren't enough people around to consistently rally up enough teams. So set up a system that allows individuals to participate when they have the time/interest.

Oh... and I found this new clip of GhR3. it looks so real! http://www.break.com/index/fpsbirds.html

Totally agree. A cool new FFA ladder would be nice. 
As for boosting GhR activity, maybe some sort of dedicated server with stat tracking like Harveys RvS server? I know it has been mentioned in the past, but it's worth bringing up again.

"Forget the team competition and focus on FFA."

Let the ACTIVE GHR Clans make that decision and not NON ACTIVE members. Yes BFG.. I'll be patience and see what DBL's ideas are brought out.

I am not in a clan, but I still consider myself an active member of the community. Please do not disreguard our suggestions just because we are not in an active clan. Actually, I think some sort of ladder, like a playground CB ladder, might boost activity... anyone can participate, not just those in clans.  This should be about the community as a whole...  not just for those who are in clans.

"Okay, this is a vote for all members of the *DBL Community to help the admins decide if this would be a good thing to get the BL active again."

My post only had to do with Clans that like to CB. FFA's have nothing to do with my post.

Then you quoted me by mistake?

You're cold Macuber.

Did you read my recommendation MrT? Had to do with GHR CB's
 Your's was the  "Forget the team competition and focus on FFA."
I think CB'ing and FFA's can work on DBL together.


Nothing to be cold about.

T, no offense but having ghr FFA and no GHR team would be pointless, it doesn't take any code changes to keep the team cb up, and all that has to happen is a season to be going on.  If people don't play cb's its no big deal, not hurting anyone.  Its stupid to shutdown the ladder to try to spark interest in other things when the interest isn't there.  Just let it be.  Ghost Recon may have run its course but its still playable and still fun.  The future of the BL needs to rest on RvS and a new game.  Thats all there is too it.

No offense??! You're calling my idea "stupid" and "pointless". But whatever...

I thought the point of this thread had transitioned into ways to keep GhR on *DAMN alive. It's clear to me that the team-based DBL structure is suffering so I thought that focusing on FFA would be a good switch. That's what I love about AA... you can track your individual stats against other players AND your clan's stats against other clans.

I don't know what the technical limitations are with the DBL system, but if DAMN's not willing to change it as the needs of the community change, then the community's going to die regardless of what ideas we come up with, pointless or otherwise.

Ghost recon is going to die and has been dying for a long time.  My opinion is that it is working as well as it can.  It is almost exceeding expectations for how old it is.  Let those who want to continue Team CBing in GHR do so.  FFA's were down last season too (I blame GS) lets just see what happens and let this game run its course.

Suggesting to kill the Clan ladder would be like cutting off the arms/legs/lower torso of a person who stubbed their toe. That is stupid. Why the hell would you kill something taking away yet more people? And what makes this GhR specific? RvS has had any solid numbers ever and has been ignored in many ways. On top of that last seasons shakedown of the rules seems relatively. OH GOD THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG!!!! LET'S JUST KILLLLLL ITTTTT!!!!111!¡one!!

And it's not DAMN's fault that the games were made without a tracking or reporting system. If you are thinking DAMN should rewrite GhR then you are more delusional that this KILL THE LADDER stuff made you sound.

Damn, that was terrible. Anyway, I say let FFA people worry about their FFA concern, and let Clans worry about the ladder problems. But if that fails:

"Close down the FFA ladder because it waste players that could be in CLANXORZZZ"

Thanks myst exactly what I was thinking.

I was not blaming Damn, point fingers at Damn or laying responsibility on Damn.  Damn has gone above and beyond to keep this community together.  Maybe someone in the community can step up to the plate? I was saying, It would be nice if someone knew how to hijack the GhR stats file to create some sort of tracking system.  Look what Lee Harvey did for the RvS community.  All I was saying is it might boost activity, if someone who knows whats what with scripts  hooked it up.   
Is that really so delusional?? ??? ::wall::

Yes.

You should research it before making it sound like "you're all useless."

Raven Shield had a built in report feature that simply needed a script to make ti upload those statistics to a server such as BT's site. However, GhR has no such system. The stat system did little for RvS accept to those who go there and think of them as some sort of measuring stick. Many simply want to play. Fun is fun, complicating it leads to more fun for some, and much much less for others.

Not true, its a common mis belief but the system does produce the results - you just need to know how to tap into them:

You see the stats at the end of the game? exactly they don't come out of thin air, if you look in your GhR folder you'll even see a .html file with the stats exported. Unfortunatly the coding is behond me, but if someone could find the hooks in GhR to collect those stats, or somehow to steal them from the .html page then you could have a stat system just like bomb has done for RvS.

Don't believe me? Go to your Ghost Recon Data folder and look for missionstats.htm. I keep shouting about this but cant find a techy bod to do the hard work for me heh.... however you never know what might pop up when your not expecting it ;)

Baahhh... I give up.  I was just trying to be productive. I'm gonna step away from this thread and let ya'll piss on eachothers suggestions.

BFG, I was on second hand info. I never had really dug through GhR... or really opened it. Anyway cotton, you need to be more productive to make your suggestions worth their weight. You can't just throw something doing the stuff like BFG did by finding the 'hidden' files. In either case I wonder why DAMN did stop tracking team kills in CBs. That was a fun stat back in Season 1. [or preseason as it was]

Good point cottonmouth "This should be about the community as a whole...  not just for those who are in clans."  Maybe some kind of "team" FFA ladders (not clan based) would be fun, play as a team with individual stats?.  Interesting BFG, that GhR (and RVS) collect stats.  There could be awards for Best (or worst) hit %, frag %, Most Tk's, etc.

Or just a scoring system like the one on the BTs server.

This is kind of what I was referring to in my stupid and pointless idea above.

i think it would be great and allow for more individual competition. My time is so limited now that I only get the odd hour here and there to play. This would allow me to still "compete", but not have to join and deal with the hassles of a clan.

Now if only someone would do it....

shouldnt it be a job for mr kevill?

Thats not a job for Evill.  He has no reason or want to do it.  Mr.Bombastic took the time to do it for RvS because he thought it would help the community.  That is what Ghost Recon needs.  Someone who knows how and is willing to do it.  (Hey that coke guy has learned how to manipulate it, why doesn't someone ask him)  T, I'm not sure if you are still saying get rid of the team cb thing, because the entire team ladder isn't going away because one player can't play on it anymore.  I'm not saying keeping individual stats like in RvS is a stupid idea, in fact, its a great idea.  But we can still play cb's as well.

I think the things mentioned about awarding Money to a winner is a mistake because people will do whatever they can to win, but if it was prizes/merchandise it may be a little different.

For those interested in winning prizes maybe *DAMN should have a merchandise store using a website like www.cafepress.com.  Get someone to make a nice logo or graphic to put on the merchandise.  This way *DAMN can bring in money to use toward prizes or maybe even give out merchandise to its winners.  People may have more fun playing for a league where they can be awarded T-Shirts/Magnets/Bumper Stickers/Keychains or whatever.

Another option could be to require people to purchase a *DAMN league membership at $5 per year.  You figure 100 people register for one year, *DAMN gets $500 to put towards its prizes.  I know by paying to play in a League will cause everyone to get real serious about winning or losing,  so maybe award a cheaper prize to the losers.  A 1st place winner gets a T-Shirt, 2nd Gets a Magnet and 3rd gets a sticker.

*DAMN could maybe even have a "$Pay$ Ladder" next season to test it out for those interested.  I'm sure there is at least 20 people out there that would do this if *DAMN offered it.  Maybe test it on a FFA Ladder and then if its a success add it to the team ladders.  A rule that limits 10 people per clan might be needed so *DAMN can calculate how much $$$ needs to be spent on the winners prize.

We're talking $5 here per person!  I don't see how anyone couldn't pay $5 per year for a "Pay Ladder" if people are already paying $50 for premium memberships on GameRanger.

Although if people are going to start paying to play on here I think we need to clean up the flamming and abuse that goes around on here and keep everything behind close doors.  Maybe start handing out 1 week bans to anyone who posts something the admins feel is offensive and abusive to another person.
NOW WHO OUT THERE IS WILLING TO PAY $5 A YEAR FOR A DBL PRIZE LEAGUE WHERE EVEN 3rd PLACE WINS SOMETHING?

Personally, I am all for a system like you are describing, Punisher.  The cafepress.com idea is pretty cool, too.  I know I'd be buying up a bunch of shit that said *DAMN all over it just to piss off my wife.  ;)

I don't post in these forums much anymore  because I'm tired of the flaming and stuff that goes on when people make suggestions until an admin suggests the same thing and then people might actually debate over it however, I really like Punisher's idea of a *DAMN store. Punisher, no flame from me... Great idea. Why not sell merchandise... And if that goes well, prizes might be able to be awarded based off of sales instead of platers actually paying to play. I'm sure many people would be interest, like GS said. I might even buy my wife some stuff to (like GS said again, to piss her off)

Great idea Punisher
Ein

I agree that the ELO system has some ignificant flaws but asking every clan to CB every other clan 2x in a week is ludicrous.  How about do this like we do other sports and make a schedule of when clans do battle?  Oh, "DIE PUNISHER, DIE!"     ::nade:: ::sniper::

That's true, there is a host called coke which is handling a computer system to create a Strapshooter league....
If that guy made it, i guess it's possible to ask for his help...

Whats the matter Weed, you can't handle CB-ing a clan 2 times over 7 days? 
If you can't handle CB-ing twice in one week you shouldn't even be playing in the DBL!

Oh yea I'm sure your schedule idea will work real nice, If they used your idea I can't wait to see how you will handle a scheduled CB with a Euro clan on a weekday.
 

What's ur problem Punisher?  Is it hard to believe that people have jobs, college, and families that have precendence over GhR? 

No, I cannot CB every clan 2x a week.  The schedule thing may not work due to time zone conflicts, but there has to be a better idea out there as neither of ours would work.

Weed I'm posting ideas for improving the League.  I post ideas that I think would benefit the league as a whole, not just to fit WeedWackers daily schedule.  If thats what you want, maybe you should post your daily schedule on here and then the League could make the proper adjustments so WeedWacker is satisfied and the rest of us will then CB when you want to CB.  Don't forget Weed, your the one that resigned from your clan last season because you said they all sucked.

I say get rid of all the minimum clan battle stuff... the activity isn't high enough to add rules such as (you must cb blank number of times in a week to stay in the league)... the main focus now should be on activity, and kicking clans out of the league for not being active enough in a single week won't increase activity one bit.  People should be able to cb when they please, those clans that just cb for fun shouldn't be punished for not being what some people may think isn't active enough.

my 2¢

I am also posting ideas to try to help the league as a whole, if it fits with my life then so much the better.  Why are you so bitter and angry Punisher?  Are your ideas the only ideas worth anything?  It's attitudes like yours, Punisher, that make the league less fun to play.

Yes, I resigned from my previous clan due to lack of competitiveness...what is your point?

Keep it on track and productive please gents, you all have your views and you all come from different perspectives and situations.

The idea is that we have a league that fits with what the community want. So we need to hear what you want - and if you can only play once a week or feel the need to play 10 times a week thats fine.

Yeah... what's up with Coke's tracker thing? I've seen him hosting and visited his site (I forget the URL right now) with all the stats. Seems like he's got some sort of AA-like tracking thing going on. Maybe DAMN should looking into leveraging what he's started.

I was going to sign up, but then I saw that Tiro was PWNing on it and got scared.

Coke said its a program he made himself that keeps the stats at the end of every game and calculates the points each person is awarded.  I doubt this guy would give his program to the DBL unless someone asked him really nicely for it or the DBL changed its FFA ladder to use the same scoring system he's using and rename the FFA ladder Coke's FFA ladder.

Ok all duely noted. i think we're drifting of topic a fair way now in reference to the initial vote and questions etc.  Unless anybody has anything else new they want to put forward im going to close this and pull all the input together.

The poll ended up 38 to 9 againts. What's there to pull together?

;)

All the other crazy crap you nuts write and complain about ;)

Deez nuts?