*DAMN R6 Forum

A Letter to All Who Voted for George W. Bush from Michael Moore

To All My Fellow Americans Who Voted for George W. Bush:

On this, the fourth anniversary of 9/11, I'm just curious, how does it feel?

How does it feel to know that the man you elected to lead us after we were attacked went ahead and put a guy in charge of FEMA whose main qualification was that he ran horse shows?

That's right. Horse shows.

I really want to know -- and I ask you this in all sincerity and with all due respect -- how do you feel about the utter contempt Mr. Bush has shown for your safety? C'mon, give me just a moment of honesty. Don't start ranting on about how this disaster in New Orleans was the fault of one of the poorest cities in America. Put aside your hatred of Democrats and liberals and anyone with the last name of Clinton. Just look me in the eye and tell me our President did the right thing after 9/11 by naming a horse show runner as the top man to protect us in case of an emergency or catastrophe.

I want you to put aside your self-affixed label of Republican/conservative/born-again/capitalist/ditto-head/right-winger and just talk to me as an American, on the common ground we both call America.

Are we safer now than before 9/11? When you learn that behind the horse show runner, the #2 and #3 men in charge of emergency preparedness have zero experience in emergency preparedness, do you think we are safer?

When you look at Michael Chertoff, the head of Homeland Security, a man with little experience in national security, do you feel secure?

When men who never served in the military and have never seen young men die in battle send our young people off to war, do you think they know how to conduct a war? Do they know what it means to have your legs blown off for a threat that was never there?

Do you really believe that turning over important government services to private corporations has resulted in better services for the people?

Why do you hate our federal government so much? You have voted for politicians for the past 25 years whose main goal has been to de-fund the federal government. Do you think that cutting federal programs like FEMA and the Army Corps of Engineers has been good or bad for America? GOOD OR BAD?

With the nation's debt at an all-time high, do you think tax cuts for the rich are still a good idea? Will you give yours back so hundreds of thousands of homeless in New Orleans can have a home?

Do you believe in Jesus? Really? Didn't he say that we would be judged by how we treat the least among us? Hurricane Katrina came in and blew off the facade that we were a nation with liberty and justice for all. The wind howled and the water rose and what was revealed was that the poor in America shall be left to suffer and die while the President of the United States fiddles and tells them to eat cake.

That's not a joke. The day the hurricane hit and the levees broke, Mr. Bush, John McCain and their rich pals were stuffing themselves with cake. A full day after the levees broke (the same levees whose repair funding he had cut), Mr. Bush was playing a guitar some country singer gave him. All this while New Orleans sank under water.

It would take ANOTHER day before the President would do a flyover in his jumbo jet, peeking out the window at the misery 2500 feet below him as he flew back to his second home in DC. It would then be TWO MORE DAYS before a trickle of federal aid and troops would arrive. This was no seven minutes in a sitting trance while children read "My Pet Goat" to him. This was FOUR DAYS of doing nothing other than saying "Brownie (FEMA director Michael Brown), you're doing a heck of a job!"

My Republican friends, does it bother you that we are the laughing stock of the world?

And on this sacred day of remembrance, do you think we honor or shame those who died on 9/11/01? If we learned nothing and find ourselves today every bit as vulnerable and unprepared as we were on that bright sunny morning, then did the 3,000 die in vain?

Our vulnerability is not just about dealing with terrorists or natural disasters. We are vulnerable and unsafe because we allow one in eight Americans to live in horrible poverty. We accept an education system where one in six children never graduate and most of those who do can't string a coherent sentence together. The middle class can't pay the mortgage or the hospital bills and 45 million have no health coverage whatsoever.

Are we safe? Do you really feel safe? You can only move so far out and build so many gated communities before the fruit of what you've sown will be crashing through your walls and demanding retribution. Do you really want to wait until that happens? Or is it your hope that if they are left alone long enough to soil themselves and shoot themselves and drown in the filth that fills the street that maybe the problem will somehow go away?

I know you know better. You gave the country and the world a man who wasn't up for the job and all he does is hire people who aren't up for the job. You did this to us, to the world, to the people of New Orleans. Please fix it. Bush is yours. And you know, for our peace and safety and security, this has to be fixed. What do you propose?

I have an idea, and it isn't a horse show.

Yours,

Michael Moore

hahaha, i can't wait for the movie based on facts.....

That piece of shit has no credible ground to stand on to launch his righteous tirades after his creative editing with his Columbine ponyshow, (shamelessly drawing upon the tragedy of two kids who were mercilessly picked on, and the kids who tragically received their retribution) to make some left wing talking-point list  about gun control.

He missed the entire godamn point of what school shootings are REALLY about, although im betting hes INTIMATELY aware with what its like to be on the receiving end of what ALL of these kids are lashing out against, and until someone has the fucking balls to deal with the REAL issue of Bullying, elitism, and institutionalized cruelty, all the gun control in the world wont stop it.

And he says his eyes are open for the real issues....FUCK HIM.
Hes as opportunistic as the people hes trying to turn you against.

He stripped so much crap out of context and distorted time lines so badly that he shouldnt be allowed to label his 'work' as documentaries ever again. For someone who proudly leads the parade for truth, he doesnt represent me, or anyone else that has a legitimate complaint about policy,politics, candidates, or issues. Hes just another voice screaming into space for the personal attention he didnt receive when he was a YOUNG ego starved asshole..

So I personally dont give a flying horseshit about his moralizing here.

Yeah MR.Moore I DO care that we have used up our goodwill capital with the rest of the world, for legitimate reasons as well as Bandwagon ones, but dont presume that I need you to point out the reasons for me. Im capable. And those reasons in some way belong to ALL of us as americans, not one administration. We're all responsible in some form, to some extent.

People like him who become spoiled, rich and famous for standing on the sidelines to criticise and pontificate, instead of aiming their talents at making things better are nothing more than vultures who are feeding on the desparation and low morale of the downtrodden for the purpose of bankrolling himself and feeding his fat fucking ego..

Theres a price to pay in the end for that too, Mr. Moore. Trust me.

And for the record, I voted for Bush so that we wouldnt have ANOTHER focus group dwelling piece of shit pulling SOME troops out of Iraq MERELY to satisfy some Gallup Poll target group, only to abandon the troops that would be left behind without the support (those guys are spread thin enough as it is). An unfortunate Catch 22, but thats why MOST of us voted for him. And if you cant fathom the truth of THAT fact, you have no right to question my judgement over ANY issue.

Attack the message rather than the messanger  ;)

Well, yes. (good point) ::bussi::

UNLESS!! that messenger is a bottom feeder, who resorts to the same truth bending,
context twisting tactics he accuses those that make their way into his viewfinder of using.
That makes him a hypocrite.

And i want those issues to be taken seriously,
and they wont be if smarmy hypocrites like him are speaking for us.

He got his taint on MY issues.

So, in this one instance..kill the messenger, take the torch out of his hand, and carry on.

Even bottom feeders can point out the obvious.

The utter lack of response to the crisis in New Orleans is a direct result of the incompetance of this administration. George W. Bush is a bad president.  He has lead this country into economic, political and social dismay. I am proud to say I didn't vote him.  I wouldn't want the resposbility of the needless death of hundreds of New Orlean's citizens on my concious.  I don't want the deaths of kids being sent off to "protect the USA" in Iraq on my head.

Call it what you want. The bottom line is that this administration has failed the world.  People used to look towards the USA as a proponent of Freedom and democracy.  They could depend on us to do what was right for them.  Now we are little more than the schoolyard bully. We are laughed at by other cultures. We are hated by countrymen of our allies.

This is what the George W. Bush administration will be remembered by; It's divisivness of the world, it's fumbling and bumbling of the USA, it's lack of world vision and it's disrespect towards humanity.

I am neither a liberal nor a conservative. I voted Bush senior in my first election. I voted Clinton in my second. If Colin Powell ran last election, I would have probably voted for him. My beliefs have nothing to do with political parties.  This does not cloud my judgement of character and I do not vote for something or someone because of party affiliation.

Michael Moore is a tabloid politicial commentator.  But that does not nullify his messege. George W Bush and his incompent administration (outside of Rice, MAYBE) has singlehandedly destroyed the credibility of a nation once founded on values, decency and humanity for all peoples (except for women until the 20s and blacks until the late 60s).

That's my 4.5 cents.

"If 12 year-old Boy Scouts can be prepared, Americans have a right to expect the same from their 59 year-old President of the United States."

I now declare we vote our next president only if he was a boyscout member.

Oh and here is more of the same:

Haliburton got the first rebuild contract for New Orleans, without even bidding on it.

(sigh)

Well, Im pretty sure they are almost the only company with the resources and expertise in such a large scale operation, despite the appearances becuase of the popularity of highlighting Cheneys affiliation.

They have a HUGE organizational ladder that is flexible, variable, and highly specialized.
And they have experience (yes, even prior to Iraq) of dealing with this scale of catastrophe effectively.

HOLY FUCKING SHIT ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND  ??????

I mean you guys are notorious for missing the point and steering it in another direction so the real issue doesnt have to be taken in when it really counts, but you have outdone yourselves here. That shooting was one of the saddest things ive ever heard about. You seriously think i was saying that those poor kids deserved that?? Your assesment skills are sorely lacking.. I would have ventured a guess that youd know me a TAD better than that. I used the word TRAGIC multiple times in my post to denote my emotional stance in regard to shooter and murdered alike. Did Moore give either side that same consideration?

Way to fucking jump a track and ride it into the ground so you can red ink me.

i didnt say ANYWHERE in that they deserved that, i mean what the fuck? 
"tragically Recieved THEIR retribution" meant Harris and Kliebold's. (please note word tragic)

I mean the poor kids that got shot, got shot becuase administrations do NOTHING to curb or prevent the targeting of unpopular kids (ESPECIALLY UNSTABLE ONES), and that those two UNRIGHTLY felt that rampaging was the only way to get even. 

MY POINT that you completely ignored...
Was that Moore took that tragedy which had everything to do with institutional bullying, mental instability and its tragic outcome, and turn it into a forum for gun control. And like you said, theres only One shooting a year, so hes full of fucking shit..that that came about becuase of us evil right wingers and our guns...That shit happened becuase of a host of reasons besides THAT one.
And Not becuase of gun control, as he would like you to believe.

I was making a point about Moores agenda-hawking, and general credibility,
of which he has NONE with me.

Reserve some of that indignation for the guy that STOOD ON THE BODIES of those murdered kids to make a a stumpspeech movie about gun control that was 100% irrelvant to the cause and effect of that day, so he could advance HIS OWN agenda.
THEREFORE from that point on, he cannot represent MINE.

He whored that issue out.. And on top of that, (speaking again to his credibility when it counts) he warped his timeline so badly and got so creative with his editing, that anyone that saw his movie would think that Heston went straight to Colorado to Lobby for the ERA in the immediate wake of that horrendous action...He did not venture into Colorado for almost TWO YEARS.

But back to the point i was making about MOORE, which was the focus of my rant...was that he lied and used the deaths of those poor kids to pull heartstrings so he could falsely bolster his argument about the evil of guns. He could have made a movie to show how inneffectively schools deal with the real (and yes, complex) issues that caused that shooting, and what its like to be a semi powerless kid at the mercy of a school full of cruel, elitist kids who are if not encouraged to pick on the different, certainly NOT discouraged from doing so.

I see it all the time in my wifes school, and im ASTOUNDED that there arent more shootings. Powerlessness is a mighty stimulant. I brought a gun to school with a plan twice.

Now that would make a heart wrenching movie.
O, but wait, thats not as politically HOT as gun control..and probably wouldnt make Drudge.

And hearing him rail the president shows me that he hasnt researched who REALLY dropped the ball on N.O.  It was FEMA. Wheres their dressing down? Hes a bandwagon hopper, pure and simple. And he doenst respect the tricky or uncomfortable facts of the issues he selectively targets.
__see my post on Beauracracy for Blitz__

And to say you can tell from my post that i favor the Right (which is generally implied as an insult to my logic/moral process) and MUST believe that i think those kids deserved to be murdered , is fucking ludicrous. Im super disappointed you could believe that about me. You must not know me at all.
I partially support the facts that Moore spoke of, i just dont want him speaking it for me.. 
He Does not have the right after what he did to the memories of those murdered innocent kids..

Does a guy like that have the right to represent you and speak for you?

Attacking me for YOUR misunderstanding at the utter exclusion of ALL of my main points on HIS credibility shows that like alot of america, you just might.

Um Tea-break time out, Dark i think you've just grabbed the wrong end of the stick there and then battered yourself over the head with it repeatedly. Suggestion: read shiex's post again (u did actually read it didn't you?)  before writing a response to it.

While im all for people standing up against Bush etc etc, I'm not all for twisting things around and screwing with what the facts are just to meet your own agenda. Moore is shooting himself in the foot doing things like this, he's simply doing nothing more than discrediting himself. Ok so he has some vaid points etc etc, but he ruins them by mixing them up in twisted half-truths etc, which Shiex has clearly mentioned.

The simplification of these matters is lethal, as shiex again covered regarding the school shootings etc etc, and it is very easy to blame everything on bush, but that isn't the case, he can't and mustn't take all the blame.

That said, Heston sickens me, i think the NFA are a bunch of conservative small minded idiots, and i think the american attitude towards firearms is a lethal joke. Bush is a puppet who has done more damage to your country and the world more than i think it can ever be comprehended. He was his normal bumbling pathetic excuse for a president during hurricane Katrina, but more importantly was how it showed how his government, the official bodies etc etc were totally and utterly incapable of managing to deal even remotely with the situation. Bush is just a figurehead of a totally corrupt and inept group of people that have been given the opportunity to run the country.

What happened after Katrina and the massive failings from the budget cuts in defenses, to the failure to organize any relief or aid for those trapped is not the doing of just one man - its a reflection on (im not kidding) the state of the country as a whole

michael moore is skinny.

I'm going to get into just this little bit of your response, which seems to be the true core from which your rant sparks. Whatever on Dark's response. He should reread your post and appologize.

And as for what Michael Moore says. I read it. And he's right to point out how much at fault those who voted for Bush are in the disaster in the South and the disaster in Iraq. He's right to call on you to look at your actions and consider the results. And you're wrong to confabulate the quality of Moore's work on BOWLING FOR COLUMBINE with his response to Katrina. They are seperate issues.

Do this: seperate Michael Moore from his commentary. Focus on the commentary. Tell me he's wrong.

If you can, then you're a liar. If you can't, then you're like every other limp-dicked wingnut chickenhawk goper, jerking off into the American flag while telling us liberals we're pussies with our "focus groups" and concern in human morality. I mean, who gives a fuck if near 60% of the country wants out of Iraq and believes the President shouldn't have gone to war and that we can't win? Why listen to the people! We're in power, yo!

Christ, it's the President's "beauracracy". He created it, he owns it and he owns the results of their incompentance. I mean, he's the fuck on top of this drippy shit of a country, right? Wait, my bad, the REPUBLICANS TOOK a drippy, filthy shit on MY FUCKING COUNTRY. Worse, you DON'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT HOW TO MAKE THINGS RIGHT AGAIN! All you care about is wiping your asses with my patriotism and the blood of our boys and girls. You're busy talking about bulldozing NO and blaming the poor folk who couldn't leave. Of course, now I'm tieing you in with the likes of Dennis Hastert and Bill O'Reilly, but you deserve each other.

Fuck you. Fuck all of you.

New Orleans is your fucking Albatross. Wear it. Smell the stink of your actions. You reap what you sow.

The only proper way to criticize FEMA is to criticize the President. Yes, Brown was a political appointee. But more importantly, this President's policies have gutted FEMA. That alone lays the blame for FEMA's poor response at the President's feet. And the President himself - in a rare moment of political suicide - has accepted the fact that he's at fault for the Federal failures in response to Katrina.

And who put the President in Power? People like you. Failed American's like you.

Nice one.

You attack the messanger and ignore the content, making the argument about you and avoiding the real issue at hand. Well, the truth is you're right. The argument is about you. It's about your failure as an American to choose wisely. I'm sick of your excuses, your party's excuses, your President's excuses. You fucked this country. Time for you to swim in the shit you spewed.

See my fucking quote.

 ok sheix, after rereading, I posted that late, but its still no excuse, Im sorry, I just completly misread what you said and I am sorry.  Post deleted.


Side note, very glad I was wrong and that sheix isnt some insano who is all for school shootings to get rid of bullying.

PPS Sheix and I "Kissed and made up" things are cool

sorry once again for the misread buddy.

hahaha everyone bitches about a natural disaster that happened to hit a state and city with one of the longest records of corruption around.  I bet most of you here don't even know how that affected the leavy situation, in addition how pork barrel spending from both parties syphoned the much needed money away until the perfect storm hit at just the right time.  For anyone to say praise democrats or fuck republicans is just as stupid as square tires.  I hate when anyone uses one situation to scream "I told you so" in this manner.  Complete rediculous bullshit. Both parties do this along many levels that affects everyday life and will affect us when other disasters come.  I will hate the democrats when the earthquakes come and destroy Los Angeles for what they done here and then I can point the finger at republicans for Bush and so on and so forth.  Fucking people, notice the whole systems is based upon waste and stupidity.  Stop picking and choosing your "public news stories" to point fingers and say "my side is better" or "i told you so".  It basically fucking happened, people died, how do we take care of it now.  Pointing fingers wastes time and finger direction, use it to do something else.

Michael Moore and his bandstanding can fit right under the tires of my car.

And that also lets people who fuck up get away with-it. Ok there is a time and a place, but by god i like pointing my finger, especially when i believe people have seriously screwed the fuck out of other people.

hrm, well I guess you should start waving your finger all over the map of the US, because there is at least 100 people responsible all over the map.  Those in spending commitees who have been cutting the funding for these things for decades (both republican and democrat), everyone who lobbies for pork barrel spending on needless shit in their home states and not to where they are needed (both republican and democrat), to the legislature of Louisana and the corrupt city of New Orleans (both republican and democrat) who wasted years of funds "given" to them to fix the leavies, the mayor of New Orleans for being a fucktard finger pointer and not a reactionary (former republican and now democrat), governor blanco (democrat), fema fucktards for waiting for "permission" (led by a republican), the president for thinking these things had protocol and he wasn't necessarily needed immediately (republican).  Directly blaming bush is far far far from the direct cause of the problem.  I don't support the moron, but know the situation for it's true value, Bush being there only makes it easier to lay the blame on him.

The only people who are taking a piss on this country, are the ranty, redfaced , bandwagon hopping tantrum throwers who aren't mature enough to dissect a complex issue correctly into it's constituent parts.

I think you might have out-hystericalled yourself this time Six.


See when you get all redfaced like rant that followed, no oxygen got to your brain and you neglected to actually read the post youre angrily replying to. See? I agree with what he said, in parts, but NOT his right to say it for me.

This sound familiar?
And unlike you, and others who, becuase of his unfavorabilty in other areas, want to lump the outcome of a natural disaster onto Mr Bush, I assign blame where it ACTUALLY lies. And i say FUCK MR MOORE for using his bush-Bashing agenda to confuse you about the real facts...facts which are, despite your inisitence to the contrary are important to the blame game at hand.  Speaking to the Columbine movie only firmly establishes a pattern of self aggrandizement, and sleight of hand.

See Im a guy who has never been real comfortable with passing the buck for my mistakes, or blaming others who are sitting in proximity of the guys who deserve the blame. It dont work that way in MY world.

If I make a  mistake at a job, i have never ever blamed my boss. And i always assumed 100% responsibility becuase im a big boy, and no one is responsible for me, but me. Regardless of who was appointed to what position, the guy sitting at the controls of the failed organization takes the heat. The tendency in this country to slather blame onto everyone but the actual person who commits the action, does NOTHING to advance the concept that we are all responsible for the actions we commit while at our posts.  When a bus-boy drops a load of dishes in a restaurant, guess who pays for the Dishes..not the chick in Human Resources. When the head of Fema drop the dishes, he buys em. Not the dude up in Human resources. See, Thats the liberal slacker entitlement philosophy at work where the guy that fucks up, can get off the hook, if he can line up enough whiners willing to try to help him push the blame off onto someone else...that's Chickenshit. And thanks to knee-jerks like you, its becoming the American way.
No wonder other countries are loathe to discuss politics with people like you...you start screaming so loudly just to see your righteous words in print, that you negelct every single relevant fact at hand simply so you can appear more righteous than the rest of us. Thats Moore's crime in my eyes as well. Its almost pointless to debate people with your Scream style Korn-Fu. You dont even read the ther guys point before you start pounding yours out. One sided Debate at its finest.

Like Fah said, pork barelling took the money from the levee projects..Regional types who wanted new projects in their districts, instead of shoring up a problem in someone elses...

And dont give me that gutting of Fema story. Mainly becuase it flies in the face of what happened.
Fema turned back the aid trucks from Chicago, Texas, Florida, and Goergia, turned back the doctors bc they werent Tort protected, Forced the Mobile hospital that was deployed to remain parked for Five full days, Turned back the 500 boat citizent flotilla, Cut the communication lines, jammed the ham radios, refused permission for the surivors radio station to put out evacuation information, turned back a plane full of german aide, is about to BURN a MILLION punds or UK rations (not the FDA..FEMA) refused a tanker loaded with Spanish Krations, Destroyed a shipment of isreali Pear juice, relieved the parishes of diesel fuel they purchased for such an emergency, refused the Coast guard delivery of diesel, Left the 600 bed Naval Ship Hospital moored off the coast, refused mayor Nagins request to fill with gas those 500 busses you saw underwater and last but not least, on the FEMA WEBSITE URGED FIRST RESPONDERS NOT TO RESPOND.

So yeah Sixhits lets Talk some FUCK YOU here....

Where does the president fit into a sngle one of those immedate protocol decisions?
Decisions i might add, which would have been made REGARDLESS who Bush appointed head.

Fema made all of those individual calls you ignorant ass, not Mr Bush..get it straight.




I second the emotion.

and ps to Dark...youre always free to call me out if you think im worng..Im just glad you let me clear up where i was coming from. I used poor grammar there, and it made it appear i was saying what you thought i did...my apologies too. Ty for the conciliatory pm.

Smack the messanger. Skillful.


Does he speak for you? Did he claim to? No, of course not, because Bush speaks for you. Moore is speaking to you. You're too much a flunky to tell the difference.


That's why you voted for Bush. A man who waited until a city drowned to take responsiblity for his failures.


Actually, no. He takes some of the heat. But the real responsibly lies with the person who put them in charge. Just because you HIRED the fucker doesn't buy you a way to bow out of your culpiblity in hiring an incompetent.


First off, you repubs are the god's eye of slathering blame. Blame the poor. Blame the local officials (who just happen to be Dems). Blame liberals. The gays. Abortion. Blame everyone but yourselves. Cause if you actually contemplated your guilt, your heart would explode.

And since when did cronyism become accountablity? We are all responsible for our actions unless we vote red, have a few million bucks, or roomed with a high ranking public official in college. Blow your accountablity out you ass until you start holding the people you put in power accountable. And the President taking responsiblity isn't the same as holding himself accountable. Fucker didn't even have the balls to fire Brown. He told Brown, live on one of his photo op moments, that he was doing a heck of a job. I guess the President doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about.

You reds sure talk a good game about personal accountablity, and sure do take perverse glee at ripping into under performing schools, or poor people on welfare, or any other number of people who just don't live up to your filthy false standards. But you never hold yourselves accountable.

Until you do you don't deserve to breath American air.

Sure, when he's at Wal-Mart buyng crockery for his wife. When he's been appointed by the President to his position as head of national disaster relief, and he was blatantly incompetent and unqualified for the job, and the nominating party was his roommate in college, his failure is the President's responsiblity. Because the President didn't bother to do his job and hold the people he hires to a standard of excellence this country deserves. Wiggle all you fucking want. That's the way the American people feel and that's the way it should be.

Yeah, those countries just don't talk to me like they used to. Probably cause they think I'm an insanely irrational Republican.


Your President. Your FEMA. Fuck you. You reap what you sow. You vote in guys who think war in a Iraq is a great way to score political points and pour gobs or cash down curropt company's throats, but turn premire federal agencies like FEMA into politcal hack dumping grounds? And you fuck me? YOUR fucking Albatross. The dead are yours.

As I said before, I'm sick of reds dodging blame or parceling off when it's all there's. You fucks run everything that's Federal. So don't give me that oh FEMA's fucked whining. Who fucked up FEMA? YOU CUNTS. Who had the wrong priorities and their finger on the trigger? YOU CUNTS. THIS IS YOURS - this is your baby.

Hold her against your breast and smell the dead people.

I'm an arrogant ass. But you're still the cunt who helped create this situation. Remember, it's shoot the messanger day, dodge responsiblity day, pass the buck evening, and blame liberals for everything year. The President, as his proponents were once so gleeful to proclaim, is free to make bold decisions. His leadership in the advent and aftermath of the distaster isn't really what we're talking about - we're talking about the nature of his leadership, which is to say, his proclivity for cronyism and inattention. His man was Brown. His policies shaped what FEMA became. His fuck up. NO is his vision come true - the chance for his brand of leadership to bear fruit. It was rotten.

But back to my core point. People like you are failures as Americans. You're job as a citizen is to hold the public good in your mind while voting. Instead, you voted for Bush. The failure of the President to do his job by running the Federal Government well is your failure. The failure of FEMA to do it's job is his failure. The disaster that is the relief of NO and the south is a Republcan failure. This was a chance for the leadership President, the bold President, the visionary who reshaped the Federal Government, who gave trillions in tax cuts and launched preemptive wars around the world to show he still had it. He can protect us. And you know, he could have had he given a shit and bothered to do his job.

But instead, much like you, he didn't. He failed.

I remember when being a Republican stood for something worth defending. What is it now that you defend? Incompentence. Failure. Misplaced priorities. Cronyism. You reap what you sow. Too bad you got a lot of people killed for it.

Six,

Too bad your potential employers will have no way of knowing ahead of time that you'll
feel 100% justified in smugly blaming your superiors for any mistakes you might make under their watch.

Can i be there when you tell them that your fuckups are 'THEIR albatross'?
Will be entertaining.

That uniquely qualifies you to work in city government..

It's always heartwarming to watch young kids spread their wings and practice stringing their platitudes together into righteous political statements before theyre old enough to recognize the real world implications of the garbage they're spouting. Because at least you're trying.

And as for my voting for Bush in the second term..I wont try to explain that one to you, becuase at your age, dilemmas that dont fall into black and white categories are scary and overwhelming (since Mr. Moore cant fomulate an easy solution for you), and a guy like you would probably prefer that the Iraqis fight a Civil war, ulitmately involving Syria, and Iran, (instead of helping them secure themselves and a constitution based on regional flavored democracy) so that your candidate can claim to have 'brought the troops home". 

**for the record, i was 100% againt the war in the first place, but now that we're entrenched, withdrawal and leaving them to the mercy of a civil war with regional influences is not an option..

six, your retardation lies in making this a Republican vs Democrat issue.  Much like more the fog of your mind is clouded with a hate of Bush.  When you finally learn how fucked up the system is, and much deeper then the seat of a presidency, only then will you finally get a clue.  Get your head out of the ass of the guy who rams this shit into your head at the young liberals meetings.  You fucking people are just as stupid as the bible thumpers who do blame everything on gays and a lack of God.  This situation could of happened last year with another hurricane that happened to veer off at the last minute and we would of had this discussion a year earlier.  Yes, shit like Mike brown and bush were still present then, but New Orleans still wasted the money to fix the levees, the state of Louisiana was still not putting money torwards the levees and waiting for federal subsidies to one day appear to fix teh problem. There was still a large 30% poverty rate with loads of uneducated people who didn't have the means or know better to do anything.

But it is sick fucks like you who take this opportunity to just scream I hate him and his group, when you have no clear clue as to what the root of the problem was.  Believe the media and think, wow man, Two people really caused all of this, get the pitchforks.

. 
Man, I really hope you say that to the face of a New Orleans person, they voted for this from the ground up.


Yeah, you should of put this at the beggining and just said, "I am now going to shout and scream and cry because this event gives me an opportunity to cry about repubs and bush some more". Don't hide it all down below, eventually the truth would come out. So much like moore, you sir are bandstanding.


Your an idiot, people vote for the good of themselves, not to help the fucktard who they don't know.  I am sure you sit there with the grand scales of enlightenment and weigh who the best candidate for america would be.  Shit sixhits, I hope you have your american flag underwear on and do the pledge of allegiance every morning when you wake up.  You sir are the grandest american we have seen to this day.

Carry on, I like to read your convoluted messages of nonsense. May Hurrican Rita give you another chance to scream I hate bush and other disasters to forthcome.

Somebody tell that whale to go poke a hole in himself and sink to the bottom of the Red Sea.

[off-topic]I never thought I'de hear a Republican say "Believe the media"... it's uaully the other way around. But at least for once the media is right... oh wait, that's because the only media I watch is Bill Mahr ;D[/off-topic]

wow, thanks for calling me republican.  I'm actually independent, but thanks for checking my voter registration card.  Kudos

Just for the record, I think I'm the only card-carrying Republican in BTs.[/size]  ;)

And here is a list of all the idiots who contributed to Bush's reelection campaign...I blame Sammy Hagar and Chuck Norris.

http://www.newsmeat.com/campaign_contributions_to_politicians/donor_list.php?candidate_id=P00003335

Micheal Moore might be a moronic, egomaniac, propogandist slob, but he has a point.

Normal people wouldn't actually admit to that in public

;)

Sheixhundt

First off, Brown's mistakes are his own. But the questions of responsiblity and accountablity go up the ladder, rather than stalling with him. To put it another way, the person who hires ragingly incompentent people deserves a pile of shit when their hirees fuck up explosively. I'm not exempting Brown - I'm looking at the big picture. What is the root cause? The root cause is Republican cronyism.

As for the real world implications of what I'm spouting: take a look at yourself and your views. We have to stay in Iraq? Why? The loose historical parallel is with Vietnam - where all the wingnuts claim we had to stay in, too. Fuck, it's the same people saying the same thing this time around and I'm tired of thier bullshit. But more important, our presence in Iraq is the reason that Iraq is fucked up now. And if someone skilled and interested in the outcome had been in charge, perhaps things would be different there. But we live in the world we have, not the one we want (to loot from Rummy). You had a chance to extert a little change by voting against Bush and against a policy you didn't support. Instead, you're doubly an ass.

If you study terrorism and Islamic terrorism in particular for any length of time you learn that terrorists don't exist in an abstract world without objectives - they have clearly defined objectives. Leave our countries unoccupied, stop supporting corrupt dictators (like, well, like we supported Saddam), and stop supporting Isreal. As for the devistation going on in Iraq, that is mostly home grown, local people fighting to kick the occupiers out of their country. If we don't leave - and how we leave is not the issue, the issue is that we promise we will and that we do so - then someday before too long Iraqis will fly planes into buildings here in America, or the equivilant, or worse.

Put it another way, are the Vietcong blowing up buildings in Vietnam these days? Why not? Because we admitted we lost and got out. Why didn't they blow up buildings in the US? Because we cut our loses and left then to their fate.

Here's a question: what are our objectives in Iraq? Name them. How are we actually, practically achieving them?

And we have to make some decisions and be honest about them: do we want to stay deployed, on the ground, in Iraq and Afganistan and other middle eastern states indefinantly? should we support quasi totalitarian states like Saudi Arabia? And why should we countinue to pick Isreal over the Palestinians?

I don't have the answers to those questions. But neither does the current Administration - an Administration that has dealt directly with these issues for five years. They can't figure out a strategy for success, they can't execute even the limited strategy of conquest and occupation successfully, and they aren't offering up anything but more of the same.

I've ceased to believe they give a shit about our country anymore.

It's not my job to provide the solutions. It's my job, as a citizen, to appoint who who will provide the solutions, judge the results, and help change the people in power or not.

So why am I so angry at you? Because you don't give a shit either. Whether you say you do, or even think you do, you don't, because your actions reveal the truth. You are only interested in being able to point fingers are weak kneed liberal peaceniks, yelling rah rah, go Amerika. And I'm sick of people like you claiming the high roads on Patriotism and Policy. I'm sick of people like you talking down to disenters, like you do to me, by grasping any reason to degrade us rather than addressing what we say and rather than defending your actions. You, sir, are a Totalitarian by virtue of your actions and people like you have torn this country apart. So excuse me if I call your shit out.


As for Faq - we've been down this road before:
"When you finally learn how fucked up the system is, and much deeper then the seat of a presidency, only then will you finally get a clue."

Sure. But the Repubs are in power. They control it all. Whose system is it, then? It's not mine. It's not my Democratic representative's. And fuck yeah, I'm going to scream bloody murder at the people IN CHARGE when they fuck up. We should tear into the whole lot of them - but the truth is the buck stops at the top, the prioties are set at the top, and you can only shot so many managers before there's no one left but yourself.

Your retardation is that you want to sit on the side sniping, blaming both sides - fuck that: get in the shit and pick a side because you're part of the problem if you won't.

Kudos you all for how much you've written on this thread, but dont make me go back and read every word of it because somebody starts flaming.  That will make me unhappy, and there will be a spanking.  No worries yet, I'm just giving a friendly reminder to keep a cool head when posting. 

Thanks,
-Lone

don't make me flame you for your racists feelings against flames, I'll do it Wolfy

Get lives...holy fucking hell. If your free time consists of posting on internet forums about how angry u are at the government then u need a fucking life.

Been a while but thats my 2 cents

IF YOU BAN SIXHITS FOR HIS BLATANT FLAMING
I WILL SET FAH ON FIRE..I SWEAR ILL DO IT.
::ass::

**for the record this participant has taken no offense whatsoever at the passionate discussion contained in this thread. I sincerely welcome Six's deeply held beliefs complete with expletives, despite his ludicrous assertion that i am a faulty american. Further I will share responsibility for the excitement contained in aforementioned thread.

All is well,wolfie!

 ::bussi::

and Rebs..Pardon us for caring enough to take our time to discuss our
widely varying political beliefs in a thorough and impassioned manner.
Non constructive post-whoring has a place..its called the SpamDrop box..

I didnt mean to put a stop to the conversation, it's just that in the past these discussions (as you are all aware), can get really mean really fast.  And because I dont want to warn people (and read everything you guys have been writing, krikey!), I made that post.  By all means though, keep going at it if you want, healthy discussions are something this forum needs more of.

Carry on
-Lone


PS - And I know you will FaH, you sexy beast you.

Nah, they don't get too bad anymore...now that I pretty much stay away from political discussions.  ;)

From the LA Times:

"Two days after Hurricane Katrina slammed into the Gulf Coast, the Department of Housing and Urban Development announced plans to issue emergency vouchers aimed at helping poor storm victims find new housing quickly by covering as much as $10,000 of their rent.

But the department suddenly backed away from the idea after White House aides met with senior HUD officials. Although emergency vouchers had been successfully used after the 1994 Northridge earthquake, the administration focused instead on a plan for government-built trailer parks, an approach that even many Republicans say would concentrate poverty in the very fashion the government has long sought to avoid."

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-policy23sep23,0,1182332.story?coll=la-home-headlines

That's our Government in action - instutionalizing poverty while claiming it will do everything in it's power to fight it.

My favorites?

"Instead of offering $10,000 vouchers, FEMA is paying an average of $16,000 for each trailer in the new parks it is contemplating.

and

"The idea that — in a community where we could place people in the private housing market to reintegrate them into society — we would put them in [trailer] ghettos with no jobs, no community, no future, strikes me as extraordinarily bad public policy, and violates every conservative principle that I'm aware of," said former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, a Republican.""