*DAMN R6 Forum

I've got an idea (it seemed to work back in the day). Lets toss all the players from every clan into a lake. If they sink, theyre not a cheater. If they float, well obviously that cant be right so they're cheaters.

I think what I am trying to say is that every week I come onto these forums and I notice someone else has been accused of cheating. Cheat tests are all fine and good and I believe that thy should be done occasionally to shake things up and weed out p[ossible cheaters. However, IMO this is becoming a witch hunt quickly. Everybody and their mother is being brought out in front of all in this public forum and being accused of cheating. Some of these people have been found to be innocent but their name still leaves tarnished.(I will never think of Rabbit the same, nor Phara just because they were accused.) Weather these people are found by the admins to be guilty or innocent, there will now always be some doubt in my mind.

I understand there are cheaters out there but I dont want to hear all of these accusations until they are proven as fact by the DBL admins. Is there anyway that the admins can set up a forum that can be posted to by all but only viewed by the forum admins? This way, they can investigate the alleged cheat and if it is found to be an actual cheat, they can make a public post about it for all to see. Otherwise I will just save all replays from my public server and start examining them. Im sure there are a lot of things that look questionable. People lie down durring games all the time. I'll call "glitch" on everyone I see (especially the good players, just to get them banned so it will be easier for other clans to beat the "said cheater's" clan)

It is getting rediculous.  ::wall::

Ein

The rabbit situation and the phara situation are compeletely differnt. Wih rabbit, there was evidence in the form of a replay an extensve discussion about it. US was unhappy with the result and decided to take their anger out on Phara just to prove a point. Phara didn't cheat and wasn't accused of cheating, he was however accused of glitching in a cb and US for some reason decided that was grounds for a ban. There isn't some sort of cheating witch hunt going on around here, just 1 clan unhappy that their new member can't play during the next season.

Rabbit and Phara were just examples. More examples would be Ghra not sending replays in time to cO which also made it onto the forums. Also ghosts posts about possible cheats (ghost, your cool and thanks for pointing them out but as the community has said, why point it out with no ss in the public forums to back up). Also the extensive 9 pages of reading about the upcoming cheat tests cO will randomly be calling.

My point is if someone suspects cheats, is there a way we can just post for the DBL admins to read along with a ss or replay so that we can save from the 9 pages or more of speculations, doubts, etc, until the claims have been investigated by the admins and deemed to actually be a cheat. If a cheat is found by the admins, they will post in the open forums for people to comment on. Otherwise it is all getting redundant and out of hand.

As I said, ghost pointed out some cheats but never actually showed the community. From how I understand it though, he showed the admins privately and they looked into it privately. Can this be done across the board? It would save some time for the readers of the forums and protect people from unneeded paranoia.


Ein

Yes but if I or another admin goes around locking these topics, people will be pissed, and accuse us of censorship or some other bullshit. People have a right to be heard.
However, Punisher was shut down pretty hard, and topics that we find out of hand of spammy, will be deleted.

Well, theres nothing wrong with havng a full, and exhaustive discussion even, if there is grey area (The admins could let these dicussions go on, as long as they deal in facts, and dont get "Baitey").
I say let em go up until that point...

If the admins objectively and without sarcasm answer questions or provide information on particulars,
its always helpful for newer or less experienced players..or clan leaders.
Say for instance discussions of the particulars of the hack vs glitch or even debate like in Rabbits case.

But in the case of an accusations without PROOF, those threads should be deleted immediately.
Proof meaning, video, Filename, or replays.

Mauti makes a great point as to why proven hacks are bannable offenses...If a clan or clan member is willing to cheat in a public server to gain an advantage, they will surely do it when a reputation is on the line. Again, lay responsibility at the feet of those that do it, and not those who point it out, or are cursed with the responsbility of making administrative decisions. And if something cannot be proven conclusively, you MUST issue the benefit of the doubt.

Unfortunatelly some wounds dont heal very fast when reasonable requests to see the evidence Ghost said there was about Rabbit does'nt get shared with me as clan leader of =US=. descisions are made fast by the admins, when the tide of evidence turns and 95% of experienced players agree that Rabbit is probably innocent, the Admins hold steadfast trying to, what appears to be, save face. But still, no evidence has been shared about the reconstruction of Rabbits alleged 'wallhack', only words that we are supposed to trust.

I'm sorry but untill the admins here at dbl stop being so stuborn/prideful (or whatever cauzes them to not admit that they might have been wrong about the 'Rabbit descision'), this issue wont die. People in this league are gonna be paranoid that they might lag out and have a ruined reputation too.

I love to clanbattle in this league but this type of unreasonable witch hunting has got to stop.

Is'nt this supposed to be about having fun?????

RoeM

I agree, posts to question if things are ok (especially when discussing a grey area) are fine... but if your going to try to point out to the admins that someone is guilty of something, then point it out to the admins only and leave it to the admins to decide. If a thread about someone possibly cheating is public, then the DAMN community will all add their two cents (as demonstrated in the discussion about Rabbit and the discussion about phara) which could sway the outcome of the discussion or even lead to more questions taking the talks off topic.

Once again, what I am asking is: "Is there a way to have a thread that can be posted to by all but can only be viewed by admins?" (perhaps a "possible cheat dropbox") If this is possible, then unfounded accusations would be weeded out by the admins before they got released to the public to discuss and debate.

Ein

possible cheat dropbox?? you have to be kidding...this is getting way out of hand.  If you think people are cheating, then do a cheattest...just leave it at that.  We shouldn't be constantly watching everyone like a hawk, wondering if they are cheating or not.  This league is about having fun...not being overly paranoid about everyone else.

And about the rabbit situation - i agree with roem....i wanna see the evidence that proves he cheated.  People keep bringing it up on here, but you're all ignoring it.

Originally, I was absolutely positive that rabbit had cheated, but as i've reviewed the replays more and more, I am no longer anywhere near as sure. I could go into greater detail why, but I don't think that this is the place. The fact is that there just isn't enough proof to do anything more then suspect that he cheated and while I believe the DBL admin's have either knowlage of the type of hack he could have used, there being a hack out there doesn't prove that Rabbit was using it.

If more information was available to the public, we would know what to watch for and we would have enough information to trust the DBL admin's decision. This entire system that we have hear (the DBL league) is based on trust between the players, the admins, and Mauti himself. This is not a dictatorship where we must be sensored from information to "protect" us, this is an internet community based on trust at all levels. Sometimes this trust is shaken at all levels (cept for mauti). The Admins don't trust the players to not use the information released for the purposes of undermining our gaming experience (aka hacking), and this breads distrust of the admins by the players, since we have no information on an issue that is obviously seriously affecting us.

We are a gaming community where fun comes above all else. Participation is completely voluntary at all levels and without trust between members at all levels, the league will cease to fuction, which is unacceptable to me. To fix this issue, which seems to be tearing appart this community (or atleast contributing significantly to the eventual decline of the DBL), I would call upon the admins to release some sort of proof that these hacks exist (even a simple screen shot) and trust that the players will not use this information to ill-ends. The players themselves will then have enough information to trust that the DBL admins are acting with the best interests of the DBL and the players in mind.

Hacks have been a problem for many gaming communities, and some have extensive security while others don't. I would like to think that ours doesn't need it, and that while there are people who would hack, I think those people are so few and far between, that that is not an issue we need to be dealing with has much as we are.

Of all of the gaming communities i've been a part of, gameranger and the DBL is by far the most civilized. I think it's time we start acting like it.

I can't help it. This is probably my last post since you guys are most likely going to ban me for what I say here. I am going to try my best to keep from flaming you people.

For one, what is a wallhack? Define it. You can't go accusing someone of "wall hacking" then say "oh they were just wallhacking." How were they wall hacking? What type of wall hack? There's way too many kinds of wall hacks to ban someone for "wall hacking". Either be more specific or don't ban people.

Two, who are you guys? Honestly. If you think Rabbit, hacks, then you don't deserve to be admins of anything, let alone a clan ladder. If you think he was shooting through walls, think again. There's no way to do that unless it's a serverside mod. Even if it showed it on his screen, it would only be client side. All of this is beside the point. You saw some stupid demo taken by some stupid noob who claimed it was wall hacks and you believed him. The person who submitted the demo claiming it was wall hacks was either a complete idiot, a complete noob, or he had a grudge against rabbit. Learn what hacks are, how to use them, and how they're used before you go accusing people of it. If you have no clue what you're talking about, don't ban people at your own disgression for stuff you can't prove.

Back on topic, Rabbit doesn't hack. Seriously. He's playing on a shitty connection in California. I have no idea what server he was playing on, but it wasn't a Cali server. He was lagging terribly. The lag was causing him to teleport/warp all over the place (if you couldn't tell). Another thing, Rabbit spends his free time (his non-school, non-life, non-cb time) running around with chicks (*coughArwencough*) on every map looking for glitches/exploits (they call that a joke for all of you who have a hard time understanding things like that). Granted, glitching is frowned upon and most people would ban for it, but he wasn't in a CB. It has nothing to do with the league if he glitches/exploits outside of the DAMN BL and it's activities.

Seriously, how was Rabbit wall hacking? Explain it. Was he moving through walls? If so, was it at a single point on the map? or was he doing it all over? Was he seeing people through walls? If so, where's your proof? Was it an ESP hack? Oh, for all of you that don't know what that is, it's an Extra Sensory Perception hack. In other words, the hacker would be able to see people's health, the direction they're looking, if they're reloading, what weapons they have, etc: all by looking at the map. Now think about it the other way.

Which is more likely?
1)Rabbit gopher hacks (moving through walls)
2)Rabbit has custom wall textures that allow him to see people through walls
3)Rabbit ESP hacks
4)Rabbit is just a good ghost recon player with a shitty comp and a shitty connection.

What do you all play GHR on? A G5? Or maybe a 1.2ghz+ G4? Rabbit plays Ghost Recon on lowest graphics settings on a 400MHZ G4 with 256MB of ram and a 16MB video card. I'd love to see any of you play as well as he does on an equally low end Mac. He runs an average of 10 FPS. I see him playing at ~20 sometimes. That's when he's lucky. How would a demo of you turn out when you're playing at 10 fps?

That's another thing. Demo's are completely unreliable. The timing (sound and video) get completely fucked up when a number of things happen. The other thing that fucks up is positioning. For example, you turn 90 degrees, aim straight at someone's face, and fire. In a replay, it might look like the reticule's are 2 feet to the left of his head. What causes this? I'll tell you.

1) The difference between the player's FPS and the server/replay recorder's FPS and/or processing power.
2) Ping. The difference in latency between the player and the server. Not only does this mean latency, it means packet loss, and choke all of which tend to spike for Rabbit while he plays.

I'm sincerely sorry for any flaming/trash talking I've done here. I'll restate my point bluntly.

Rabbit does not hack. Period. Banning rabbit for wall hacking only proves your ignorance, your one sided approach, and your inability to accurately and fairly admin a competative ladder. If you can't tell the difference between a good player like Rabbit and a hacker like... whoever, then you don't deserve to admin this battle league, or any server for that matter.

For those of you who are thinking "who the hell does he think he is?", I'm an admin on tons of PC gaming servers and know a shitload about hacking. Part of being an admin and being able to tell the difference between a hacker and and a good player is HACKING. Go get some hacks and use them. Seriously. Go hack it up in single player. That way you get a feel for the hacks and will be able to recognise them if you see them. That's how any good admin starts. PC gamers find every single possible way to exploit a game engine and hack games. I have countless demos of people hacking, some obvious, some subtle, I know what hacks look like and how people generally use them. If need be, I can back up Rabbit's hard drive for him and send it to you to prove he doesn't hack. It's not even about clearing his name anymore, it's about proving that the admins' decisions can't be trusted. You have "proof" that he hacks. I have proof (no quotes) that he doesn't. 100% verifiable, undisputable proof. If you still claim he hacks, then what does that say about the admins and this ladder in general? Exactly.

Did any of you even talk to Rabbit about it? US had every reason to defend one of their own against a hackusation with no evidence and no proof. However, they were wrong to attack someone else.

As for you Ein, just PM an admin and give him the post and the evidence. I'm sure there's a way to have an admin only section. Just have an admin post the ban request.

jerkasaur, DAMN BL is by far the most immature league/community I've ever seen. The fact that you (the league) banned Rabbit off the evidence presented is just retarded. All it says to me is that, excuse the rudeness, you're a bunch of ban happy little kids that have never had admin before and want to exercise it any way you can. That's my flaming opinion. My civilized opinoin is that DAMN BL needs some work. Their admins need to tell the entire community anything they know about hacking or GHR hacks period. Why? So that this kind of stupid shit doesn't happen. If everybody's aware of the hacks and knows what they look like, then nobody will come here with false hacusations.

Again, I apologize for any flaming or insulting remarks, but people need to read that. I don't mean to offend or attack anybody specifically or generally. It's about competence.



EDIT: There is no possible way to write a hack that lets you stand on one side of a wall and fire through it unless the wall/door's attributes allow it (ie. wooden door). That would involve going through the server, something you can't do without hacking the server itself and changing the server. Aim bots are simple. They are client side and enhance a player's aim before they fire the bullets. All the server does is calculate the trajectories. Cmon, if you voted yes on Prop Ban-Rabbit you need to learn some networking, computer protection, and just plain common sense.

~Lib

all you admins and rabbit haters need to pay some attention to liberate ..

Liberate...    ::applause::



FREE RABBIT!!

(http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/3442/freerabbit6mz.jpg)
Free Rabbit.
---------
By Jamo[/size]

well if some guys lag or wapr they should stop playing , some just use this lags in there advantage !!! some also provoc lags using other apps in background to shoot before u see them !!!

NOW and for last time :


ALL this info were public and got erased by admins, i gave all info i had with proper SS and replays to damn and some freindly clan like ZT or Mods and some other

i guess spreading all info was not a good thing and they tried to protect it specialy cause its mega too easy to recreat

even ip joining is easy, and finding PC hacks (stream hacks from client) is not hard very not (google)


i got no evidence!!! i said what can be done or not, i have no authority in judging and no wich to loose  time with it

got nothing pro or against rabbit i hope he is clear and that soon all people will be

GL & HF

I am writing as a forum moderator here, and not a *DBL admin. I understand some of you do not agree on the ban of =US=Deumrabbit, however I will say this. To spam the forum with nonsens is not the way to go. Liberates post is more than legit in my oppinion, because he posts something constructive(if we look aside from his use of insults, and I do beg you to consider your "flames" as you so nicely call them yourself and in the future post things with a more neutral tone, and perhaps walk off your anger before you post), and therefore it does not look to me as spam. Hunter, Jamo and Leen, if you don't have anything new to add to this thread, please post your "free rabbit posters", your applauds, and your quotes in the spam drop box.

Brutha

guess im the noob your looking for liberate. I recently bought myself a 1.25 emac 512 ram but have played ghr for quite some time on a 700 mhz g3 256 ati 128 56k

Brutha just because you're an admin now, doesn't mean you have to act like a dick all the time.  Rabbit got screwed, and you guys won't do anything about it.  We're stating our opinions on here, which we are entitled to do.  Rabbit should be freed, he didn't do anything wrong...

Honestly, if you think about it - if it were someone like Red Tigah that had a lag problem like this, it would've been reviewed, and discussed about 100x more than what Rabbit got.  He lagged out, and now he's getting fucked for it.

When did I act like a dick? I said that the spam that followed Liberates post isn't constructive and that it belongs to the spam drop box. I also commented on what liberate explained as flames in his own post. If you have a problem with that, send me a PM and I'll come and have a chat with you on GR.

WHEN have you ever lagged that hard and STILL be able to kill people?  I've lagged that hard, but then it corrects itself.  I've NEVER been able to lag and lag and lag for minutes. and still be able to kill.

Lag inherently means that you are suffering some bandwith issues and your game is out of synch with the rest of the game.  That's not the case here at all as everyone is saying that he lagged, but his game is still in synch with the server to be able to kill fools.

I'm fine if you don't think he cheated.  At that point that is reasonable.  But it's not lag.

Ghost, what you are saying here is PURE NONSENSE.  Lag is bad, it is never a helpful thing.  It hurts the player who is LAGGING.  Someone who is lagging will not be able to shoot someone else before they can see them, the lag would be laggin their own computer not the person whom they are shooting.  In Rabbits case (not taking sides) had that been warp/lag he would never have known(until his comp recovered from the lag), he may have been shooting at people that were on his screen, but were not actually there.  I have had times where I see people and shoot them, but I notice that there are no bullet ricochets, then I know that I am in big lag.  Rabbit could have been in this same perdicament.  (Although I seem to remember bullets ricocheting with rabbit) 
       The whole point I am trying to make is that when someone lags, their computer sees something totally different than what the host computer does.  In a replay, you dont see someone warping around, because the game doesnt know that they are, its the lag that causes warp.

Overall, there is no way that lag can be advantage to the person who is lagging.  Cmon Ghost you know this stuff.  Quit your damn cheating witch hunt and play the game.  No one bs'd about cheaters 3 years ago when I first started playing this game, and everything was good.  No one blamed c| or BTs of cheating.  There was the one issue of "fridge" and he got a perma ban from GR and the DBL for it (the gr ban might not have been the ghr glitching, but if anyone gets permabanned from GR there is usually a good reason)  Cheating might happen, but if someone wins because they cheated, I hope it helps them sleep at night to know that they probly wouldnt have been able to do that if they hadnt.  And anyone who cheats to win, even at monopoly or something bigger, inevitably feels regret because of the fact that they did cheat.  So to all you cheaters out there, Sleep well knowing that most of us dont give a flying fuck that you can shoot us with your ubedh4x.  We are just here to play a fucking game.




GET OVER IT

fyi I believe fridge was banned for having over 100 gr accounts

Wow. I'm sure if we all pmmed all our spam to the admins we'd be noticed. Since when our we not allowed to have a peaceful protest on these forums? And I spent over a hour creating that banner. I consider that very constructive, TY.

Wrong wrong wrong dark. Having played on a 56k for over a year (250+ ping constantly), I can tell you will all certaintly that lag can in some cases be helpful. If you hit someone, that hit is registered on the client side (i.e. the lagger who was shooting) and that information is sent to the server which registers the kill on the other person's computer. What this means, is that if i'm lagging and i get a spike, I won't imediately know it, and when I shoot someone, it registers on my end that they've been hit, though there is a delay in time between my computer sendign the information that the hit is registered, and the hit being registered on the other players side. So, here's a real life, in game example =

I was playing battlefield on murds server when for some reason everyone hit a huge lag spike. At the time,  I didn't realize we we lagging and I fired at kiwi several times. He didn't die imediately and I realized that we or I was lagging. 30 secodns latter, I warped to the other side of the map, and kiwi was dead where I shot him at. Despite the lag, the hit hard reigstered on my side and kiwi had died because that information was sent to the server.

The same thing works on a smaller scale for an individual, instead of the whoel server. I could be in a small lag spike, peak around a rock and shoo soemone, without them even knowing I was there because they died before the information of me moveing reached them. Thus, the lagger in some cases has an advantage. The hit is registered on the shooter's side regardless of whether the movement was registered. When that information finally gets sent out due to lag delay the other person could easily be already dead before even knowing that you were there.

I agree when I went from the g3 to my new g4 bout 6 mounths ago my kills dropped for quite some time. I think its an advantage at some times an a disadvantage at others

This can go both ways though - if a server times out for a bit...You could be shooting at someone looking the other way (so you think) and when the server catches up, you're dead. 

And weak, i know you've been around this game for a long time, and i agree, i haven't seen anything like Rabbit's situation.  BUT - after talking with a bunch of people that are familiar with modding GhR, its impossible to shoot through walls...especially when you are on someone elses host.  It would be one thing if you went into your GhR folder and fucked everything up, and tried it on your own host.....but when you're playing on someone else's host, it goes by their (the hosts) files. 

Honestly, have you ever seen someone straight up shoot through walls in ghost recon in a regular game, or in a cb??  I haven't.  Lag can do some crazy ass shit...ESPECIALLY in this game.  The other day we were playing on aztec, and [a]Python XL lagged WAY up on some ledge by the wz about 20 feet in the air.  I have no idea what that wouldve looked like in a replay, but im sure if someone just posted that on here and said they had "jump hacks" or something gay like that, half of you would believe it.

I know i've been sticking up for this dude for a while....I'm not personal friends with rabbit, but i do know that he is one of the better players out there.  I've watched him for a while, esp after all of this bullshit.  He's good, and doesn't cheat....and i really think you guys are making a mistake. 

[a] PythonXL has also been known to lag through the broken bridge in Embassy and die from the fall.

I think The DBL should really rethink the rabbit situation.

OR

Posting a simple replay of the cheat/hax that Admins claimed to have duplicated would be and easy answer to all this drama.

A replay would NOT teach anyone how to cheat and would prove that he indeed cheated.

Then the community wouldnt feel like you guys are punishing innocent players.

Guilty till proven innocent? or wasnt it the other way around?

Shut the fuck up to be honest. Are you fucking retarded? You have fucking euros and aussies hosting/playing in the league with 400+ ping yet you want Rabbit out because he's in the US with 120~ ping and shitty DSL? BAN THE EUROS AND AUSSIE THEN TALK SHIT ABOUT LOCALS. How retarded can you get? Jesus christ...

By the way Brutha, its =US= DeUmRaBbiT. There's a space in there buddy.

Rabbit says "We don't really care."

A-fucking-men.

theweakspot. Idiot. IF YOU WATCH THE REPLAY, HE LAGS (he can't move, turn, shoot or anything ACCURATELY) FOR ABOUT 5 SECONDS. WHEN HE STOPS LAGGING, HE WARPS INTO THE GLITCH. Honestly, you all have experienced lag in GHR before, you teleport all over the fucking place. Rabbit has said it countless times and if you want more demos to prove it happens all the time JUST SAY SOMETHING.

Says he who doesn't use our DSL in our town. Come here to Cali and try our DSL. You'll change your mind and shut your mouth if you do.

100% true.

<indian accent>
OD MY GOD YEAH JAMO!
</indian accent>(yeah, that was me on voice a couple days ago lawl)

If it's lagging, the packets containing the info on the bullets you fire would take forever to get to the server. TRANSLATION INTO JERKASAURANESE? THE GUY WOULDN'T DIE BECAUSE HE WOULD NEVER GET SHOT BY BULLETS THAT THE SERVER NEVER REGISTERED THE GUY FIRING. Seriously, learn how computers/the internet work, then come back with your pseudo-intelligence.

You know why you havn't seen it? Because its... oh wait for it here it comes... IMPOSSIBLE! w00t! You CANNOT CHANGE THE GAME'S PHYSICS DURING A GAME FROM A CLIENT. That is all kthx.

Negative. You're 100% wrong. They cant post a demo that proves Rabbit was hacking because no such demo exists. Why? He doesn't hack, it's a simple as that. Not only do you have my word, you have Rabbits. If need be, I'll make a copy of his goddam hard drive and ship it to you. It's not about him being innocent or guilty. It's about you guys being completely wrong, then defending your decision at the expense of US's season. Not only do you owe Rabbit a formal apology, you owe one to US too. They all deserve to hear "Yeah, we were wrong. I'm sorry." from you guys. The fact that you can't seem to find the right key combination to type that is beyond me.

Send me the name of the wall hack he used, or send me a link to where I can download it. Oh wait what? You can't/won't? Then why is he banned? You cannot prove he hacks, therefore you have no grounds to ban him.

The fact that the entire competative community is screaming for Rabbit to be unbanned means nothing to you guys does it? Rabbit knows he didn't hack more than anybody here. I come in second and everybody else that plays in the DAMN BL comes in third. You all come in fourth (last AND least) because you refuse to believe me, rabbit, and everybody else. He should have been unbanned the second an admin read my last post. The fact that he's still banned means first and foremost that whoever is in charge of managing bans is a complete fucking idiot. I don't care if it's the fucking DAMN BL owner himself. I could care less what happens to this account. I'd be glad if you perma ban my IP because you can't handle the truth. All it would mean to me is I never have to read this sorry shit again. The PC gaming world is bad enough, and I never thought I'd see shit this lame from Mac users. Good job morons.

~Lib

(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y119/tovarsich/liberate6.jpg)

That took me 25 minutes to make. Me > Jamo tbh  ;)

liberate , thanks for the posts and your great effort to bring rabbit out of his undeserving ban ..

i just want to know .. who are you ?

Rabbit, fire this Liberate fella' and rehire Punisher.  At least he wasnt a loudmouth.

if liberate is banned or looked down upon by any of you ,  i laugh at you fools .. you can't handle the truth .


weak , please read liberate's full posts and think about what he is saying before you move onto more rabbit - bashing .


that would be very interesting , indeed .

cO.leen

Jerk, I have never ever ever seen it work that way, and I have never heard stories of someone being able to kill someone in lag... so until you show me a replay of it, or some other proof, I just cant beleive what you are saying.


(BTW the server registers all shots and movements then relays them back to your comp's visual... like lib says, learn how the game works, you dont send the server anything but where you wanna go and where you wanna shoot, to know that that guy was there, the server had to send you that info, and therefore because he didnt see you, its most likely that he was laggin not you)

You all need to calm down, especially Liberate. You can argue without sarcasm anger or swearing. got it?

I used to play GHR on game ranger before I got a PC. I was a total nub about 2 years ago. It's completely different now. I know more about hacking than most of you ever will. Why? People ask my opinoin in a ban request. What do I do? I go out for 2 days and download all the hacks I can find. I load up a single player game and hack until I'm bored. Why? Because I'm not going to give my opinion if I don't know what I'm talking about.

I no longer play GHR on gameranger, nor do I even own a Mac. No, I didn't convert to Pee Cee-ism. Rabbit can vouch for me flaming bill gates and windows constantly. My mac broke, and I thought I could fix it. I popped open my laptop and it turned out the motherboard failed; that was something I couldn't fix. They have a mobo swap program for it, but I had already opened the laptop and they won't replace it now. I'm too lazy/poor to buy another one.

After reading what you people have said, I can tell that none of you even know what GHR hacks are out there. You havn't used them for research. You havn't had any experience at all with hacking and therefore have no grounds to flame me or Rabbit. I know more about it than you, if you don't like what I'm saying, then it sucks to be you.

I have every right to be a loud mouth. They ban Rabbit for no reason and then decide it's okay to defend their decision instead of unbanning him even when they've been proven wrong countless times. If the DAMN BL players want him unbanned, what right do you have to keep him banned? What is the DAMN BL without the clans and people that participate in it? Wasted money and webpsace, that's what.

theweakspot, I may be a loud mouth, but at least I'm correct and well-informed which is much more than I can say for you, as sad as it may seem.

As for Rabbit, I'm a friend of his so to speak. Yeah, I know him in real life and I've used his comp countless times. I'll put it this way. His comp is such a piece of shit it couldn't even run GHR and a hack at the same time. It'd crash. It's like when he tries to screenshot and it crashes GHR. He may only be 14, but at least he acts more mature than most of you. He may not be able to afford a G5, but at least he's good at GHR on a shitty comp with shitty internet without cheating.


In response to leen: Rabbit wasn't given the same consideration as someone else would because everybody hate's him for being in Gz. They can't grasp the concept that everyone in Gz didn't hack. They also hate him because they too (Po and such) banned him from their servers JUST for being in Gz a while back and they don't want to admit they were wrong. The proof? When have they apologized to Rabbit for it?

Honestly, go learn some CISCO networking. Go get A++ certified. Go program multiplayer games and write your own net code. Maybe then you'll understand what you're talking about.

sipke, did you read what you typed? I can't be mad or sarcastic? What are you guys, the emotion police? I'm pretty sure everyone here is old enough to handle the language. I tend to flame when I'm pissed. Maybe if you unbanned Rabbit I wouldn't have a reason to be mad or flame.... Hmm what a concept. Unbanning the guy that doesn't hack. Oh whoops I forgot to type </sarcasm> before my post. I forgot to close the tag and some sarcasm leaked in.

~Lib

Well I guess it's my turn. Be the host of the game in question. I going to tell u want I saw in game. After my last death in this game I moved over to the view of Destroyer using in game voice I told him where I thought rabbit was. He moved and from thru and nade. At the wrong corner. I told to go inside and get him. As he came around the corner and shot it looked to me as if rabbit was shooting through the wall. Destroyer fired and killed rabbit. I then ask destroyer if he was shooting thought (in game voice) the wall he said yes I then ended the game. Before I did rabbit left the game (he heard what I asked).

That is what I saw destroyer and me are family and I will let him say what he saw. But I know what I saw.

As for the ban. I realize there is room for error in the replay and in fact I may have seen what I think I did. I feel the one season ban is a fair one (he may not be guilty) it sends a message to all the cheater that u can be caught and dealt with.

My opinion

I feel rabbit has a hack of some type. I don’t base this on one replay I have a few where rabbit makes a shot that at best would a very hard shot (BUT CAN BE DONE). I base my opinion on what I saw and heard f rom others. The fact that over 15 people Imed for the link to download the replay in min of me saying I had this. And over 50 download in one day over 100 now.  Says to me that im not alone (rabbit is REALLY this good or he’s a cheater).  I can what to see rabbit game play now that this is out there. Is he going to be this good or not?

that is what is said last time this came up http://www.damnr6.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=9130.0
and i stand by what i said. i know what i saw and there was no lag!!!!!!!!

liberate GO the fuck back 2 your fucking PC world and keep your thoughts to yourself!!!!!! ::applause::

To theone

Host replay doesnt show player-side lag views

To liberate

were you known as LiberateMe on GR? 


By the way liberate, hunter of Po is on rabbits side (he is the leader) I cant speak for the rest of us, but he isnt bannned from mine, hunters, or viva's server.

My 2 Cents

dark.

I just meant chill out with the flaming, I don't see how thats an un-reasonable request.

and while you're at it mr. liberate... we don't allow pictures in signatures here.

I'm only speaking from over two years of ghost recon experience playing with the shittiest of ping and the information given to me by community members that I know and trust. If you'd like to explain in greater detail how it works, by all means, fucking enlighten us. I'm sorry I don't have you're extensive expereince with cysco networking. Until you care to explain it, I'm going to go by what I know and what I've experienced. Maybe I'm not rabbit's best friend, but thoughout this whole situtation, I've tried to be as objective as I can with the knowlage that I've had. Now I'm taking my time to post here to try and explain, at least with my severely limited amout of knowlage how rabbit could be innocent, yet I'm the fucking enemy? Get your priorities strait.

I would like to respectfully request that the admins recreate (again) and post their proof (in multiple views) that rabbit was actually cheating in the form of a replay with AnonADMIN as the player name.
Had we been asked on Typhys hack we could and would have done so to avoid the doubt of our accusations.

Prudence at this point Demands it.

This will not in anyway encourage it, matter of fact it will show that it can be spotted in replay, and then we'll all know for CERTAIN either way if the ban was righteous.

Its only FAIR, and its the RIGHT thing do do considering the volume of protest.
Witholding this critical peice will only encourage the suspicion,
and not end it, as Im sure the admins would like.

 
I guarantee that will absolutely shut the debate down.
Becuase this debate here, is accomplishing nothing,
and the naysayers  are making what sound to me like legit points.

And I bet, to a person, on being shown multiple view reproductions of the supposed hack woud cause the naysayers to immediately withdraw their Rabbit Appeals..and perhaps apologize to the admin staff for the anger on the issue.

In the intrest of Justic, please post some admin replays.

What he said, please give us teh proof.

For all the public knows the proof was no greater than the proof originally brought from the public to the admins... and that proof (the replay) showed that he indeed lagged off the ramp and was not shooting through a wall as it seemed. So unless the admins know something we don't I don't think they have any 'proof' that will prove deumrabbit guilty. Which is why this issue is still being argued.

(And I'm not saying they have no other proof... they could for all I know)

oh, and for the record, i 100% defend the notion of posting that video in the first place..i would have done the same, and feel that the poster would retract his accusation if he were proven wrong, I believe him to be fair and objective, and do not fault him for feeling that something was amiss...

We bought the game the day it came out for Mac. GG!

That's what they make school for. Where do you think I learned it? Yeah, I was born knowing it, right.

Go look it up online or something. There's plenty of ways to teach yourself all this shit. Half of it you get from experience. The problem with your experience is it's lacking a real game. GHR is a good game, don't get me wrong. The thing is, it doesn't display your ping. It doesn't have built in VoiceCom, and it doesn't let you change rates for upload and download. You can't tweak your rates so you get the lowest ping possible on a server with whatever ISP you're using. Apart from that, half the people that play GHR on gameranger are all over the world. You get servers hosted from europe with US and aussie players on it. You get American servers with euros and aussies on it. You get aussies hosting with americans and euros playing. Each one of those is 250+ ping in addition to whatever you normally get from local (national servers, not international) which for Rabbit is 160+. It's ridiculous, but here's the facts. There's 2 ISP's where we live. One is this DSL that is on all the time, but you get shitty ass pings and download rates. The other is Comcast Cable over which we get around 20 ping within the US and insanely fast download speeds. The problem with Comcast is it drops the connection every 5 minutes. In other words, you lose internet every 5 minutes (you get disconnected, your downloads stop, etc).

Even if they post the replays and you guys claim he hacks, I'll be here flaming away. Why? Rabbit didn't hack, it's that simple. I'm dead serious. I will make a copy of his hard drive without modifying it at all and send it to whoever. Why should you believe me/trust me? I'd pay for the hard drive and the shipping in order to clear his name on some crappy graphics mac game. Who in their right mind would waste the time and money to do such a thing if the guy was hacking?

I'm going to have to say the same thing. I guess you have to start somewhere, even if it means making hackusations against good players. Sorry Ive.

~Lib

premie chat, netphone, ichat... why does it have to built into the game?
do eet! not that it would prove anything, I just think it'd be a funny waste of time and money. But I agree, rabbit is innocent unless/until the admins come up with a better explanation and more evidence.

The Deumbrabbit incident should have never been posted on these forums.  That game had nothing to do with the DBL league so it shouldn't be an issue with the league,  it's complete bullshit that you prevent this guy from playing.  The only people I blame for this inncident is "{E}TheOneCapt and the Admins".  You should of posted this on your {E} clan website or in the Mac gaming Forum because this has nothing to do with the DBL league.  Yes "TheOneCapt" it may appear like rabbit is cheating in that replay but you don't know for sure do you?  So why would you even post that as "Deumbrabbit caught cheating"?  He just payed for a premium account before all this started, and now you screwed him out of using it in CB's.  Since when does the Battle League get involved in gameranger public room games.  I posted a replay of Pharah cheating in a practice CB game and was told this isn't an issue because it's not a league game.  
I have seen and heard clan people have retextured some of their Ghr maps.  Does that mean I should post pictures and proof of that in here because they could be cheating?  Even though it has nothing to do with an actual DBL league game.  There's no proof of a hack so how can you ban for using a hack?

I am calling out the admin's right now to post the proof they have that shows they could recreate what happened to rabbit.[/b]

$50.- spent by a 14 yr old that wanted to cb in the leugue wasted for a year. That to me is equivelant to $999.- wasted as an adult. (not that I'm rich) Darn shame that he wasted all that money only to be made an example of without proof.

C'mon, benefit of the doubt? Innocent untill proven guilty?

(keep the hope alive!)

That's all the evidence that the admins have...if you can even understand it.

that is false... he's a member of a clan competeing in the league which makes it a *DAMN issue.

But let's see the proof... and if there is no proof, let's get a formal apology to =US= and especially Deumrabbit... and a reversal of the original punishment.

And no... I'm not "turning on the admin team" ::lol:: mearly pointing out a bad call. And it is a bad call unless proven otherwise with proof, proof which should have been released to the public in the original arguement.

Wow, if the pro and con guys woud stop fighting each OTHER, and took a minute to ask respectfully for consideration, you JUST might get a respectful and meaningful response from the admin team.  They are pretty reasonable people who are (in my opinion) making an effort to be fair and subjective, while protecting the integrity of the CB season...

Stop insulting them, just becuase you disagree with the ruling, (for all WE know, they DID prove it to their own satisfaction) and ask politely as I am trying to do, to enlighten us that know less than others, and I stand by my route to get this accomplished.  I stand by my assertion that while you may not see it, they are trying their best to be fair, while doing their job of protecting the league.

And the WHOLE point of any of this is to protect the game,so even if you think Rabbit was clean, have the foresight to realize how it could seem fishy.....and yes since there werent multiple examples of Rabbit, the case is harder to prove off that replay....but i see how it looked bad...and if they DO send up the replay proof, then Rabbit will have some serious explaing to do,for allowing this to get out of hand.

Just ease up,and calm down a bit.

none of the admins have said anything about it since the ruling...what makes you think that they are even thinking about changing the decision?

theweakspot. Idiot. IF YOU WATCH THE REPLAY, HE LAGS (he can't move, turn, shoot or anything ACCURATELY) FOR ABOUT 5 SECONDS. WHEN HE STOPS LAGGING, HE WARPS INTO THE GLITCH. Honestly, you all have experienced lag in GHR before, you teleport all over the fucking place. Rabbit has said it countless times and if you want more demos to prove it happens all the time JUST SAY SOMETHING.
ok from myreplay that i have watched over and over countless times, i see nothing of rabbit lagging warping ect. and run staright into that corner after going up the other ramp on left side of map. especially for 5 secs. im running an imac g5 1 gig even if u dont care. i dont know about the rest of ppl cept kit that has same comp but more ram if he sees the same thing i do. id like to know.

as for shooting thru walls... ive seen some glitches that u look thru walls and still shoot pplbut the other person still sees them next to wall and can shoot them as well.

for replays and what u see are 2 differnet things u only see what the host computers seeslike if u were in a  glitch u can see thru walls but the other person sees u as normaland all textures being there. mb its just a glitch and not a hack. since im just a noob i really could be talking out of my ass. but from my veiw i see rabbit shooting thru the wall and hitting trees next to stern guy or what ever his name was and missing while firing . so he took his noob stick (gl) what ever u want to call it and blow him awya with it.

im not really mad at him and leave or anything when he joins  room, im just there for fun. but at the same time im in the bl so i have to obide by there rules in cb's.

im just going to say this then i'll stop talking.

That replay will look identical on any comp that you watch it from..  Its the lagless game from the host's point of view, which isn't at all what was going on from rabbit's pov.


That's right..the ONLY time you can shoot through walls on someone else's host is if you are in a glitch.  There is no other way.  Period.

Dude... slow your roll.... breathe.... take a breath.... calm the fuck down..... no one stole your cloudsong... In these forums, like in life, I talk to rational people.  So calm down.  OK, ready?


Well informed?  Well, I was here the day it happened and posted the replay that shows that he did not even try to go up the steps.  Punisher should me a replay he was able to get that showed he did.  So I changed my mind about Rabbit.  But you weren't here for that, were you?  Now tell me, still think you are well informed?


=US= Punisher can inform you about all of this, since i talked to him a lot about this as it went down, or even DeUmRaBbIt himself.  Go inform yourself.



Find me where I am now accusing Rabbit of glitching or cheating...... IM NOT.  If you had read things sensibly, you would realize that I was on your side.  I don't think it was lag--- that was my well informed opinion.


I won't recount everything with you-- you are well informed and have already read the original thread on this board and the special forces board where this all got started, right?


My comment about being a loudmouth was simple.  But let me break it down further.  Punisher did a GREAT job of showing people where it might be possible that Rabbit did nothing wrong.  He took his time.  He TALKED.  He didnt belittle people.  He was rational.  He managed to convince lots of people.

You, my angry friend, have pissed many off and are hurting the cause you are trying to push.  You are being a grade A loudmouth.  Calm down and state your case.  You say you are some sort of admin and seem to know something about computers.  Take a tip from me regarding interpersonal relations.... calm down, state your case and let people decide.  It's called be rational.

Or is yelling to get your point across what your life has taught you?

Right. They're so reasonable they banned Rabbit for not hacking.

No..shit... How thick can you get? It's a G5. I would be terribly disappointed if a G5 lagged on something like GHR. Another thing, the GHR demo system is shitty. As I exlpained before, it looks different for whoever watches it. Difference in comp specs and internet quality between the server and the player and the person watching the demo causes the alignment and timing to completely fuck up. I would FRAPS you a demo of how it lags for us here, but FRAPS is a PC app and GHR runs perfect on my AMD.

He warped right to the edge and then fell off which is a glitch. From there you can lean INTO the wall and shoot through it. I've done it myself on maps like dust and such. It's an exploit with many maps. Map bugs and exploits are meant to be fixed, but that's another story. The host doesn't see a player lagging because of the way GHR works. The reason you warp in ghost recon and no other game is simple. The server tries to compensate for your ping and attempts to predict the path it thinks you would have take and updates your position over time depending on how bad you're lagging. If you want, I'll open MSpaint and show you what I mean. This is what causes the warping as Rabbit calls it. The server uses the teleport cvar to update your position, hence the teleporting. That's why you can't see the lag. I can might be able to use SnapzProX or whatever the hell it's called to get a movie of what it looks like on his comp. I don't know though. It can barely handle GHR and I don't know how it would respond to Snapz recording in the background.

weakspot you idiot. Read what I just typed. Just read it. Your demo shows absoluetly nothing. What you see on the demo is not what Rabbit sees when he lags. Get over your fucking bullshit demo already.

Twist sums up the hacking part.

~Lib

Is anyone saying anything new in this thread, or are you all just yelling?

then how come he says that didnt u see the lag for about 5 secs? i sure didnt so if im wrong then how did someone else see the lag? just wondering

you cant read, can you... i said im not against you   ::lol::

Spike, lock it.... everyone is saying we want proof for Rabbit, but liberate insists on just being a dick.

yep, nothing is being said here that i havent seen 20 times before. im locking this for now.