*DAMN R6 Forum

Posted By Knick of Evol Intent on 404Audio:

"Last night, I was booked to play an event about an hour outside of Salt Lake City, Utah. The hype behind this show was huge, they presold 700 tickets and they expected up to 3,000 people total. The promoters did an amazing job with the show.. they even made slipmats with the flyers on them to promote in local shops.

So, we got to the show around 11:15 or so and it was really cool. It was all outdoors, in a valley surrounded by huge mountains. They had an amazing light show flashing on to a mountain behind the site, the sound was booming, the crowd was about 1500 people thick and everything just seemed too good to be true really. Well...

At about 11:30 or so, I was standing behind the stage talking with someone when I noticed a helicopter pulling over one of the mountain tops. I jokingly said "Oh look, here comes big brother" to the person I was with. I wasn't far off.

The helicopter dipped lower and lower and started shining its lights on the crowd. I was kind of in awe and just sat and watched this thing circle us for a minute. As I looked back towards the crowd I saw a guy dressed in camoflauge walking by, toting an assault rifle. At this point, everyone was fully aware of what was going on . A few "troops" rushed the stage and cut the sound off and started yelling that everyone "get the fuck out of here or go to jail". This is where it got really sticky.

No one resisted. That's for sure. They had police dogs raiding the crowd of people and I saw a dog signal out a guy who obviously had some drugs on him. The soldiers attacked the guy (4 of them on 1), and kicked him a few times in the ribs and had their knees in his back and sides. As they were cuffing him, there was about 1000 kids trying to leave in the backdrop, peacefully. Next thing I know, A can of fucking TEAR GAS is launched into the crowd. People are running and screaming at this point. Girls are crying, guys are cussing... bad scene.

Now, this is all I saw with my own eyes, but I heard plenty of other accounts of the night. Now this isnt gossip I heard from some candy raver, these are instances cited straight out of the promoters mouth..

- One of the promoters friends (a very small female) was attacked by one of the police dogs. As she struggled to get away from it, the police tackled her. 3 grown men proceeded to KICK HER IN THE STOMACH.

- The police confiscated 3 video tapes in total. People were trying to document what was happening out there. The police saw one guy filming and ran after him, tackled him and his camera fell, and luckily.. his friend grabbed it and ran and got away. priceless footage. That's not all though. Out of 1,500 people, there's sure to be more footage.

- The police were rounding up the staff of the party and the main promoter went up to them with the permit for the show and said "here, I have the permit." The police then said, "no you don't" and ripped the permit out of his hand. Then, they put an assault rifle to his forehead and said "get the fuck out of here right now."



Now.. let's get the facts straight here.

This event was 100% legal. They had every permit the city told them they needed. They had a 2 MILLION DOLLAR insurance policy for the event. They had liscenced security guards at the gates confiscating any alcohol or drugs found upon entry (yes, they searched every car on the way in). Oh, I suppose I should mention that they arrested all the security guards for possession.

Oh another interesting fact.. the police did not have a warrant. The owner of the land already has a lawsuit against the city for something similar. A few months ago, she rented her land for a party and the police raided that as well. And catch this, the police forced her to LEAVE HER OWN PERSONAL PROPERTY. That's right. They didnt arrest her, but made her leave her own property!!!

Don't get it twisted, this is all going down in probably THE most conservative state in the USA. And this is scary.. a gross violation of our civil liberties. The police wanted this party shut down, so they made it happen. Even though everything about this event was legal. The promoters spent over $ 20,000 on this show and did everything they had to to make it legit, only to have it taken away from them by a group of radical neo-con's with an agenda.

This was one of the scariest things I have ever witnessed in person. I can't even begin to describe how surreal it was. Helicopters, assault rifles, tear gas, camoflauge-wearing soldiers.... why? Was that really necessary?

This needs to be big news across the USofA. At least in our music scene (edm as a whole)... this could happen to any of us at any time. When we're losing the right to gather peacefully, we're also letting the police set a standard of what we can get away with. And I think that's BULLSHIT!

The system fucked up last night... They broke up a party that was 100% legal and they physically hurt a lot of people there at the same time. The promoters already have 6 lawsuits ready to file with their lawyers and the ACLU is already involved.

I'm sure some pictures (and hopefully some video) will surface soon. I'll make sure to post them up here on 404, so you can see the Police State of America at work.

Evil or Very Mad


p.s. - there are more stories of police brutality that i'll post up later. gotta hit the airport soon. can't wait to get the fuck out of this shit hole state
------------------------------------------------------
Video here---> http://homepage.mac.com/apexgrin/FileSharing2.html (original)
http://www.angrymobclan.com/facism.mov (different location)
http://www.unnet.net/crap/facism.mov (different location)

You have to watch the whole video... and keep in mind that this was before the teargas was shot into the crowd.
------------------------------------------------------
My thoughts:

Some of you may believe this issue doesn't involve you... but you're wrong, this just goes to show what direction the US is moving. People were enjoying music, regardless if they were doing drugs or not NOBODY should be mauled, tasered, beaten or having a gun pointed at them. It's a sad world we live in today... A world which allows you to purchase a gun easier than you can throw an electronic music event. I've been involved in the "rave scene" since I was 13 and instances like these have been occuring since 97' but most of the previous raids were all legit raids on illegal events (still doesn't give the right to beat people) this party had all the proper permits, licsensed security guards and a great insurance policy. It's all bullshit... they call it freedom, I call it fascism
-------------------------------------------------------
More links and personal experiences with this event can be found here http://www.utrave.org/

One camera managed to escape... all the other cameras and camcorders were confiscated and their owners arrested. I got a chance to talk to the kid with video camera... he actually tried to run, he was tackled and arrested but his friend managed to escape with the camera.

On one of the victims shown you'll see a spark... that's when he was tasered WHILE he was being beaten by three cops.

This is the US law enforcement agency at it's best.

Talk about a Orwellian society..

Btw, Are the authorities entitled to demand someone put their camera down in the USA?

Bill of Fucking Rights:

Number 1.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom … of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

Number 4.

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

Number 8.

"Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted."




What the fuck...

Just saw the first quicktime movie and I have to say I'm pretty
amazed about the excessive show of force used here.
I hope this footage will stur something up, cause you really don't want
your country turning into a marshal law state.

welcome to the real world guys..
nice isnt it?

haha, yeah, these weren't cops sent to shut down a party.  These guys are wearing tactical gear suited up for a reason.  Maybe part of a sting? or something further.  No police agency that I know of would go to these lengths to shut down a "social gathering", the costs are way too much.  From the looks of it, they were looking to bust people as part of some drug enforcement, also by what you stated on most of the charges were.

I would have to see some police reports and legal briefs to actually say something wrong was done here.  Shit, I have been to enough parties to know that when the cops come, you don't say shit or do anything wrong or they will take you down and arrest you.  That is a rule of thumb here in LA, and people here get shot on a daily basis, unlike utah.  Besides, Utah man, most places don't even sell liquor let alone have raves where 80% of the people would be on some type of drug.

You want police reports? how can you even trust the police after they tried to hide all evidence... tackeling everybody with a camera. I haven't trusted our government ever since the rave act was passed in 03'. I attended a couple protests downtown and whatnot... they connect ravers (like myself) to terroists and we are treated as such. We live in a bull shit, single sided world run by the dictators we call our leaders, the same ones we elected (and no, I'm not just talking about George Bush).

The news won't cover the side of the story that kids got beat and bruised.

GS, the promoters did have all of the correct permits, liscenced security guards and everything needed to throw a legal party... the party was thrown on private property... the police DID not have a warrant... the security guards were chekcing every kid who went through the doors including every car. And they were all arrested for possession, because the confiscated drugs were still on them... who else would hold onto the drugs?

And from how I understand it, it was members of the swat team and some police in full riot suits. Though some say it was the national guard or the army, the promoter himself said it wasn't.

It's sad because this is a way of life for hundreds of thousands of kids across the world. They live by Peace, Love, Unity and Respect. These parties are our sanctuary... some mistake us all for being drug addicts but that's not the case, every raver is not connected with drugs... it's no different from a rock concert where underage kids drink or do drugs, but would one of those ever be brought to this level? HELL NO... This is one of the saddest things I've ever witnessed, it only goes to show which direction our country is moving. We declare war on everything, terrorism, education, ravers, etc. now they're declaring war on our freedom.

This isn't a republican/democrat battle either, it was a democrat that started the 'RAVE Act', though that saddens me, it makes me realize that this issue cannot be completely blamed on the republicans but our whole fucked up government.

just a little preview of what our government is coming to ..

Yeah... I'm sure they sent helicopters and SWAT teams just for fun, to ruin some kids' party. That is really fucked up.

They've been doing this since 97' to Electronic music parties "raves".

You CANNOT tell me that their are some rockers out there that don't do drugs which would lead me to believe that their would be rockers on drugs at a concert...

We're accused of being terrorists for christ sake...

sorry, I may not be making sense right now... I'm extremely pissed off, been up all night emailing fox, cnn, civil liberties rights.... etc. etc. etc.

What's happeneing is bullshit, and if you can't see it I don't know what's wrong with you... NOBODY deserves to be tackled and beaten by 3-5 men in riot sutis, NOBODY. The girl in the red shirt in the video was 100% sober and DID NOT resist. Her friend and the girl who was standing right next to her was with her the whole time couldn't do anything except watch her get kicked in the stomach and hit in the face... all she could do is scream. Fuck that, and the police reopt that they didn't use any excessive force... liars... so basically FUCK the police, FUCK the swat, FUCK our government.

This kinda shits been happening since the sixties yo.  Ravers are not the first people to experience this bullshit. 

You're correct, my dad went through the same thing as a 'hippie'... but the government chooses who they want to harrass at a given time... the 90's and 00's seem to be pointed at the ravers.

As a raver this is only going to make me stronger... this is only going to make our scene stronger... this is only going to make our music stronger. Every raver in the world knows about this by now, I've seen replies from every state in the US, Canada, Italy, England, Australia, Japan and we're all fighting this together, chances of winning are slim. But it's a fight worth fighting.

September 10th I'm starting my protest by going to a party just like the one raided on August 20th... I'm going in a full DEA uniform wearing all my 'kandi gear' beads, glowsticks and whatever else... or what the government refers to as drug parafanelia.

You're such a rebel, Krush! ::lol::

If this is the same party you are talking about it seems to paint a different picture.
But then there are always two sides to one story! ::)


   Monday, August 22, 2005 - 12:00 AM   |

Police shut down major rave near Diamond Fork

Michael Rigert DAILY HERALD


Police in Utah County pulled the plug on a major rave party Saturday night in Spanish Fork Canyon as the underground event threatened to get out of control.

The Utah County Sheriff's Office learned Saturday at noon that an area promoter had planned a rave party for later that night at Child's Ranch, a site just inside the Diamond Fork area of Spanish Fork Canyon.

Before that, all police knew was it's date and that it would be located "an hour and 15 minutes southeast of Salt Lake City."

Sheriff's Office spokesman Sgt. Darren Gilbert said from previous experience with several sizable raves in Utah County this summer, a large amount of drug use and underage consumption of alcohol takes place, in addition to the dancing and loud music.

"Reports of sexual assaults, overdoes, firearm violations, vehicle burglaries," also are par for the course, he said.

Saturday's rave kicked off at 9 p.m., and by 10 p.m. undercover detectives with the Utah Major Crimes Task Force had observed "numerous illegal activities" involving drugs and alcohol. They also verified that more than 250 people were at the party in violation of county statutes.

By 11:30 p.m., more than 90 law enforcement officers and SWAT team members from Utah County, Provo, and the Utah Department of Public Safety shut down the party. At least 60 arrests were made for weapons offenses, DUI, illegal underage consumption of alcohol, possessions of marijuana, cocaine, methamphetamine and ecstasy. Arrests also were made for resisting arrest, assault on police officer and disorderly conduct.

Gilbert said of those arrests, 21 individuals were booked into the Utah County Jail.

A 17-year-old West Jordan female had overdosed on ecstasy. She was treated by EMS personnel and released to her parents.

Gilbert said a large number of the rave's participants were local teenagers from Spanish Fork, Springville, Provo and Payson. Many also were from the Salt Lake and Davis county areas.

He said rave party drugs were offered to a local off-duty emergency medical service personnel who were contracted to be at the rave. Two security personnel hired by the promoter also were arrested for possession of cocaine and ecstasy.

The Utah County Sheriff's Office said in addition to all the illegal activity at the rave, the promoter failed to obtain a permit, bond and approval of the County Commission. The county's mass gathering ordinance -- created in recent years to control events like rave parties -- prohibits gatherings of 250 more people without county approval.

Gilbert said things could have easily gotten out of hand like they did at a similar rave party in the south county area near Little Mob, which was attended by 3,000 partying teens and young adults.

"There's no doubt in my mind that this one could have been at 2,000 plus (people)," he said. "That's why we hit it so early."

Police said promoters use Web sites and flyers to get word out about their underground parties and sell tickets for $20 a pop. On the day of the scheduled party, ticket buyers log on to the site and get a map and directions.

Gilbert said the promoter of Saturday's rave was in attendance and will be served a long-form summons to appear in court for numerous violations. Detectives interviewed females who attended a prior rave party in the Utah County area in the past month who claimed to have been sexually assaulted.

"These females states that the combination of drugs and alcohol made them fear for their safety due to the groping and sexual assaults that occurred during the rave party," Gilbert said. "In the last year alone one near-fatal shooting was investigated by (the sheriff's office) at a similar party."

 
 

you'd think with all the freedom preaching over here, they'd at least have a little.

So they are still fighting the "WAR on Drugs". I thought they won that one and moved on ?  ;)

If it was such a peaceful raid as that article claims why were all cameras and video camers seized? if you watch the one video that made it out you'll see that the people who were attacked didn't do shit.

And they also claim that they didn't have all the correct permits... I've talked to the producer himself and every permit they needed, they have. He showed me the permit codes and everything... they have attorneys working on the case as we speak.

teargas and assult rifles for a dance? are you kidding me?

"17 year olds overdosing on ecstacy" are you kidding me??????


Your trying to make this sound as though it was 12 year olds birthday party. Its far from it.
And from my dealings with these event promotors their about as honost and trustworthy as a corporate CEO.


But thats right most people go to "Raves" to dance and enjoy music.....plllllease

Response...

http://www.utahcountyonline.org/News/DeptNewsDetails.asp?ID=17759&WN_System=SHERIFF

Yeah, that's the article Kangaroo quoted on page 1 of this thread. ;)

Thats right Civic this was a "dance" party   ;)
So your all saying that no illegal activities were happening or the use of force against illegal activities was the issue?

You obviously don't know shit about this music scene... You're one of the outsiders who listens to the media a little too much and just assumes we all do drugs at these parties.


a stadium event isn't a rave...The atmosphere makes the rave, not the music. you don't know anything about the rave scene or the rave culture is what I was saying... and you obviously don't.


by you saying this, I can tell you don't know shit.

Anywho... I'm getting myself too far into this and it's getting off topic. So I'll post the final words of the leading production company in my area.

DC Productions:

Whether they had the permit or not, would it not be a lot more simple to have the army wait outside for a few minutes, send one or two people in charge in to talk to the main stage, ask them to turn off the volume, and inform them that there is an entire militia waiting outside if they feel the need to keep the party going?

I throw events myself in another area of the country. Events very strikingly similar to this one, and we have to jump through all the same hoops that its sounds like Utah county makes others jump through. The permits are there for a reason, to keep people safe. Most of the requirements are for running water, toilets, food, medical stuff, etc etc... and the bond is to pay for whatever you don't provide, like clean up, ambulance runs, etc etc.

From doing similar things, not obtaining a permit would be... well... suicide. The police were at the board meeting when we obtained ours, so I find it hard to believe that they had the permits and the police didn't know. Somebody isn't telling the truth.

But, that only justifies them to shut the show down. It in no way should let them come in and put thousands of people in danger. If most of your arrests and problems are because of drugs, sending those people, a majority of which I'm assuming went back to Salt Lake, on a 1 hour drive... possibly on psychadelics and other drugs. Whoever called in the raid, thats about the most irresponsible thing you could have done here.

As for the video, its pretty self explanatory. The police force seemed to be watching way too many news at 10 stories about drugs and raves, and came prepared for battle... when again, all it would have taken was a "be smart. turn off your music. we're here, and we have guns." Let the promoters send people home.

In the end, instead of one party in a long line of others that have been busted peacefully and without anyone getting attacked by dogs, you have an entire nation of music lovers and event enthusiasts rallied behind one cause: Rave On.

And nobody wins. The promoter is done, I'm guessing. The kids that were beaten are left with the scars. The other attendees are probably very horrified. The police are left with an entire nation of people that have one more reason to not like them. The system looks like an entire joke. And... guess what... raves in that area just went underground to avoid action like this.

Congratulations.


I posted this somewhere else, and thought hey... that pretty much sums up my thinking. I'll use it as a response in the vibe. This is really... scary. It basically takes my worst fears in the back of my head and brings them to life. Take care of each other, and throw your support where you feel it necessary. I personally feel that the party could have been shut down legitimately, I'll never know... but the force, holy shit. Its pretty mind-blowing... so, I'll be writing letters.

Plur guys. 

combined the consecutive posts.    -cookie

I have a family member who organises dance partys in Australia for between 10000-25000 people at major stadiums in Sydney, Melbourne and others.
But then again i dont know anything.

and that's another dumbass statement... illegal activities are occuring at my school every day, my friends do drugs in school, drink, smoke... whatever else they can. Marijuana is found in my school every day. Where's the raid? Try to tell me people don't do ecstasy, weed or any other drug at rock concerts... I know people who do ecstasy at rock concerts and don't even listen to electronic music.

If they felt the need to stop the dance (because that's is what it is no matter how blind you are) they could have asked and told them they have a full raid ready if they feel the need to keep partying and I'm sure the promoters would have stopped the dance right there. Whether people are on drugs or not they go to dance... it's something you would only know if you've been to one. People try to sell me ecstasy at the club (clubs are not raves) every week, why do the cops not give a shit? because the city makes money off the alcohol sold and the taxes paid by the club owner.

You think raves are the only place where people do drugs? you're saddly mistaken, I've just recently been quitting many drugs I've done in the past, the last 4 parties I've been to I've been drug free and I've had the time of my life. Don't ever say that raves are for drugs... My brother owns a production company here in Minneapolis 'P3/Pitch Patrol Productions'. He does everything in his power to make sure drugs stay out of his parties, but no matter what you do, you can't stop people from taking drugs before they enter. And that goes for anything.

Nobody answered my question.[/size]  :(

yes, some of us suck on pacifiers, some of us wear doctors masks, some of us wear very baggy pants as we dance, some of us have fake and very colorful hair strands... I personally just where a whole lot of beads and tend to where bright comfortable clothes.

i cannot STAND ravers with all their fucking gear. the girls are cute though.

If that's your reason for hating ravers then maybe you need a little PLUR in your life ;)

Go suck on a pacifier, Krush... ::lol:: ::lol:: ::lol::

Now krush, why don't you explain why people wear the masks and suck on the pacifiers.

The reason people usually use pacifiers gs is that they are on speed or MDMA. This is do to the fact that the stimulant makes your body want to constantly move and one side result of this is that you grind your teeth.  Instead of fucking up your mouth and having quite some pain the next day, people found that pacifiers helps this out much like a teething 2 year old.

Now for the masks. Masks are used to apply inhalents in a more controlled form.  People on MDMA like to put Vapor rub like vicks or some type of over the counter inhalent on the inside of the masks.  It's supposed to enhance the effects and give a bit more wow to the fun. 

Most of this stuff has reason to it, and it's just not to look like a fool twirling glow sticks. 

haha... you would beed more than a few SWAT to break an english rave.... have you ever seen 3000 pissed of chavs?... actually.. that would make fantastic TV

I know what all of it's for... I used to do it. But if you go to a rave probably 5% of people have a pacifier (mostly girls) and 2% a doctors mask... They're technically illegal now at any party and are confiscated at the door. Those are just the people outsiders see most often in pictures. The rave scene has changed a lot since the mid-90's and these "paraphernalia" are becoming more rare each year. I was at a rave last year 'Elemental 2' and a cop took all of my beads away claiming that it's "drug paraphernalia"... I wasn't even on any drugs. And in many cases the glowsticks and LED lights are being used by the sober ones, I personally give light shows when I'm sober... I also recieve light shows when I'm sober. A good light show looks amazing no matter what state of mind you're in.

The beads on the other hand are a sign of PLUR used by the ravers, you make your own and hand them out at parties to the people you meet, nothing to do with drigs.

And lastly... civic, quit being a dumbass ;D

Edit: And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying these things aren't being done. I'm sure it differs from location to location... It's nearly impossible to stop at an outdoor party and especially at an outdoor party that runs for a number of days. But in indoor parties these days you won't see these things, unless it's a 100% underground party... which doesn't happen anymore. Everything illegal, drugs, drug enhancers and weapons are all confiscated at the door.

I'm not sure if you're trying to be funny or not... but once again, quit being a dumbass.

omfg look at this how to be a raver guide it's serious:
http://www.sykospark.net/raver/menu.html

it's serious... lol ::lol::

RAID A RAVE by DJ Nyx

I took the liberty of revamping this song from the politcal stand point to focus more on the events in utah this last weekend


To the Tune of... "If you're happy and you know it"

If you cannot find Osama, raid a rave
If hip hop is too "your momma", raid a rave
If the kandi kids are frisky
their binkies are looking shifty
Rock Concerts are too risky
Raid a rave

Even if their permits are legal, Raid a rave
All their dancing and music looks evil, raid a rave
So to hell with the inspections
Let's dress like SWAT and help with "protection"
Close your mind and take directions
Raid a rave

It's "preventing the nations downfall", raid a rave
all the ravers who are out of control, raid a rave
All their dancing is scaring me
They've got drugs that we can't see
and its all the proof I need
raid a rave

If you are trying to play detective, raid a rave
If your mood is quite dejected, raid a rave
and you confuse attacks with being friendly
if you think that hugs are deadly
and you dont like that "Techno" melody
raid a rave

if you have low self esteem, raid a rave
and you need someone to ream, raid a rave
If your morals are getting sleazy
attacking ravers seems fun and easy
And your madhood's getting queazy
raid a rave

grab your guns and follow orders, raid a rave
take the dogs, forget the warrents, bomb Iraq
ask whats going on? We'll knock you down
your cameras gone, your on the ground
no evidence will be found
raid a rave

Krush could you provide us an Mp3 with you singing that song?

And the type of drug you're on?

and a picture of you with all your raver gear on

I see you're still trying to be funny with you're dumbass comments...


That I can do... if somebody gets a picture of me at my next party and puts it online I'll be glad to show you.

heh - i just don't know what to say - or think... really but um he has a point but in these situations people tend to set themselves up (example) in the video after camo guys take stage, the one kid flipps the camo guy a bird, heh... well you can bet he's one of the ass kicked ravers when its all said and done. See, even if you have freedoms and liberties... you must not flaunt them or take advantage of them or... YOU WILL LOSE THEM. For instance... I play gigs (rock) almost every weekend, from clubs to large events (8,000 - 12,000) never once has anything like that happened, and let me tell you... there were certainly illegal things goin on, but, wasnt flaunted. You know ive been standing outside a club on break, having a hootie before and the local cops pass or walk right by, hell even wave or stop to talk, and because we are acting like adults and not spoiled kids (that think they have bought their immunity with a $20 rave ticket) they leave us alone. Freedom is perceived and earned  - take that for granted and boom.

On the other hand Krush, it was a bit harsh... good luck

The attack started when they dropped in from helicopters, not when the kid flipped him off. It would not have been brought to this level at a rock concert or in a club no matter how many drugs were being used was my main point.

All they would have had to do is ask the promoters to shut her down and they would have made it happen.

And the point of the "attack" was to surprise the people and mak sure nobody can run away or hide "something".

They sure got a big surprise when they were teargased and tackled by K-9 units... nobody deserves that, not even if you're on drugs... or rather, especially if you're on drugs, it'll only cause more chaos. Instead they send everybody home on a moments notice, even all the people who are still high... which is the worst thing they could have done.

How naive are you? ::)

how is that being naive? so kids on drugs while driving is safe?

I know from experience that, if it comes down to shutting down a party, the best thing to do is stop the party and let the kids cool off before making their way home... instead they forced everybody out with teargas.

The Salt Lake Tribune:

Ravers say cops were too rough making bust
Utah County: Sheriff defends the actions, denies wrongdoing
By Michael N. Westley

Partygoers at a rave in Spanish Fork Canyon that was busted by police Saturday night say officers used brutal and excessive force to clear the crowd.
   As many as 90 police officers from several agencies, including SWAT members and major crimes investigators, stormed the DJ-driven dance party around 11:30 p.m. dressed in full SWAT gear and holding automatic weapons.
   A helicopter announced the police presence as it crested a nearby hill and began shining a spotlight on the outdoor dance area, said 19-year-old Scott Benton of Logan.
   "The cops just came in wearing full Army [camouflage]. It was basically brute force," Benton said. "I had a gun put in my face and was told to get out of there."
   Standing in a crowd of people near the main stage, Alisha Matagi says she was just in the wrong place at the wrong time when she was thrown to the ground, punched, kicked and handcuffed by police.
   "I did absolutely nothing wrong," she said. Matagi was arrested with about 60 other partyers. She was booked into the Utah County Jail on the suspicion of resisting arrest and failing to obey an officer, according to police records.
   About 1,000 people were cleared in less than a half-hour from the private ranch owned by the Childs family in the Diamond Fork area of Spanish Fork Canyon, rave promoters said. Several party attendees told The Salt Lake Tribune that officers barked orders fraught with profanity, beat people to the ground and used their weapons to intimidate the crowd.
   A video of the opening moments of the bust, taken by Jeffrey Coombs and snatched from the ground by another partier as Coombs was tackled, shows the officers using force on individuals as they took over the crowd.
   Utah County Sheriff James Tracy said Monday that he had seen the video and called it an accurate representation of the bust.
   "I stand by everything that was done there that night. We did use some force. It was appropriate and necessary to take those who were fighting us into custody," Tracy said.
   He also said that no officers used profanity as they conversed with partiers, nor did they punch, kick, Mace or use tear gas on any of the attendees.
   "It's all a lie and we refute every word of that," said Tracy.
   But the video clearly shows an officer using profanity as he demands the music be turned off.
   "Turn that off. Turn that music off or I'll take your ass to jail," the officer can be heard saying to the DJ. In the video, the area where people had been dancing transforms into what looks like a battlefield with groups of officers surrounding ravers on the ground, guns drawn and assault dogs in tow.
   "I saw a girl tackled to the ground for no reason because she told them not to touch her. It was vicious," Benton said.
   Police said the party Saturday night was the third event held in Utah County during the past month. The all-night parties attract a host of illegal activities including drug use, theft, sexual assault and underage drinking, according to Utah County Sheriff's Sgt. Darren Gilbert.
   Saturday's party, named Versus II, had been tracked by police for several weeks, Gilbert said. Police planned the bust when they discovered that the rave's promoters had not filed for a mass gathering permit through the County Commission office.

   
Rave Raid Video
See amateur video of the raid
.wmv file
.mov file


To have more than 250 at an event without that permit is a violation of the law, Gilbert said.
   Party promotor Brandon Fullmer said he purchased a mass gathering permit through the Utah County Health Department about three weeks ago. The purchase of that permit, which ensures water, sanitation and medical services, was confirmed by County Health employee Jay Stone.
   Fullmer did not know that a similar permit, which requires a security plan and event details, needed to be acquired.
   The sheriff had little sympathy for the promoters or those at the rave. "They did nothing more than ensure this was a venue for illegal drug use and consumption," Tracy said. Officers confiscated ecstasy, marijuana, alcohol, cocaine and mushrooms, he said.
   Among those arrested for drug possession were several security guards hired by Fullmer to patrol the event. Guards at security check points confiscated alcohol and drugs as ravers filed into the party, Fullmer said.
   "[Security guards] have no legal statutory authority to take and hold controlled substances. It's against the law for them to have them," Tracy said.

http://www.sltrib.com/search/ci_2964938

You ever thought about the other side of it krush?,  those 90 police officers (who had orders) had to try and break 3000 people up... someone can do the maths ratio to that... most of those police officers probably had families, they have their lifes and other responsibiliities, to go into a rave where most of the young people would have been on drugs or mb not w/e, but anything could've happened, someone could have been carrying a gun, knife's etc etc, they had their reasons to break this thing up, they went in with heavy force, so what?

Krush, if you worked for that police force in like 5yrs time, and your job that night was to break 3000 people up and tell them to go home... how would you have tackled that situation? with a nice sign saying "Could everyone please go home, kthx, cya" oh and "Could all the dealers please line up here so we can arrest you".

 

I don't see why they couldn't hover in a helicopter over telling people to go home, if people weren't cooperating, then they could go in. At least let the innocent people that would cooperate clear out before using brute force.

And that's the thing... this would have worked and this was my main arguement.

Let's not even think that way, I'll be sure to never work for any branch of the US government.

No, I would have sent the Chief Deputy up to the producer and have him tell the producer that the party must be shut down now or we'll have to send the 90 members of the swat team in that are waiting outside.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. It's not about the drugs, if it were about the drugs cops would be raiding Rock Concerts, Clubs and High Schools all over the country. Last time I was at the club I would say at least 40% of the people there were on ecstasy just by looking at them and I know of some who were on Marijuana... but the city makes money off the clubs, if they raid a club event they're losing money.

krush,.... i've never had any problems with you in the past... but seriously come on... there are worst things that will happen in your lifetime... one rave that got busted for some reason... not for the fun of it, but for some reason that they thought it needed to happen.... maybe i would have thought the same 8 years ago " all it was was 3000 18yr old's having fun, nothing wrong in that etc etc"  but i reallly really can't see 90 SWAT  team people busting something like this for no reason

yeah, any suprise tatic they had would have been lost by doing that


40% of 3000 people is a lot of people doing drugs, and someone has to be supplying that... its just unfortunate that they decided to raid this concert... its probably not the first time they've done it, probably won't be the last.

anyway... i am off to bed, so i will have to catch the response in the morning.

[This is all about history repeating itself. Think about it, Swing parties were the raves of their day.]


The strict regimentation of youth culture in Nazi Germany through the Hitler Youth led to the emergence of several underground protest movements, through which adolescents were able to better exert their independence. There were street gangs (Meuten) of working class youths, who borrowed elements from socialist and communist traditions to forge their own identities, and there were less politically motivated groups that such as the Edelweiss Pirates (Edelweißpiraten), who acted in defiance of Hitler Youth norms. A third group, consisting mainly of upper middle class youths, based their protest on their musical preferences, rejecting the völkisch music propagated by the Party for American jazz forms, especially Swing. While musical preferences are often a feature of youthful rebellion - as the history of rock and roll shows - jazz and especially Swing were particularly offensive to the Nazi hierarchy: not only did they promote sexual permissiveness, but they were also associated with the American enemy and worse, with the inferior African race. To the Nazis, jazz was "Negro music."


Of course, not all jazz was forbidden in Germany at the time. A milder, Germanized version was popular in clubs and shows throughout the Third Reich. [This is akin to the watered down techno used in the U.S. for commercials, and the like.] What German "Swing kids" did was restore the original tempos and messages, refashioning them in an uninhibited form of protest against the social regimentation they faced. A popular term that the Swing subculture used to define itself was Lottern, roughly translated as "sleaziness," indicating that the movement was no less interested in undermining the repressive sexual mores of the Nazi regime. Reports by Hitler Youth observers of Swing parties and jitterbug went into careful detail about the overtly sexual nature of both. One report describes as "moral depravity" the fact that Swing youth took pleasure in their sexuality.


Despite this, Swing was tolerated to some degree in Germany at least until 1940, when a Swing festival, held in Hamburg, attracted over 500 youths. Inevitably, however, the gathering was monitored closely by the rival Hitler Youth. When such gatherings were banned, [Enter the RAVE Act...] the Swing youth moved to more informal settings, [underground parties] and Swing clubs emerged in all the major cities of the Reich. One possible explanation for this is the socioeconomic background of the participants, who were mainly from the upper middle class. This was inevitable, as Swing culture required the participants to have access to the music, which was not played on German radio, so that extensive collections of phonograph recordings were essential. Similarly, to understand the lyrics of the predominantly American songs, it was necessary to have at least a rudimentary understanding of English. Relative wealth also fostered a distinctive style among the Swing youth, which was in some ways comparable to the zoot suit style popular in the United States at the time (see: Zoot Suit Riots). Boys usually wore long jackets, often checkered, shoes with crepe soles (for dancing), and flashy scarves. They almost always carried an umbrella, and added a dress shirt button with a semi-precious stone. Girls generally wore their hair long and loose and added excessive makeup. [Sounds like they were the Candy Ravers of their time.]


Though they were not overtly political - more likely, they were apolitical - Swing youth tended to reject the racism of Nazi society. The music they listened to was African American, and they were more open to accepting Jews into their circles. [Sounds like they were practising a form of "PLUR" before the term was invented.] Their behavior, described by many Nazis as "effete," ran counter to the Spartan militarism that the regime was trying to inculcate in its youth.


This was the cause of the eventual onslaught on the Swing youth. On January 2, 1942, Heinrich Himmler wrote to Reinhard Heydrich calling on him to clamp down on the ringleaders of the Swing movement, recommending a few years in a concentration camp with beatings and forced labor. The crackdown soon followed: clubs were raided and participants were hauled off to camps. The Swing youth movement was the subject of a feature film, Swing Kids (1993). [You should all rent this movie and watch it.]

I couldn't believe it either.

Nice parallel krush. Takes guts to compare policies of then & now like that, with a core of truth that will hurt more than mere slander.

Why is it that in all the press releases i've read in the past hour (from the USA, on this rave, and on ID theory (Ramen!)), make my skin crawl with implied undertones and opinionated bullshit? Does the press filter out this propaganda when printing an article? Or does Joe Sixpack find skewed news in his paper every morning?

Is this too general, too stupid, or too something-else a question to be answered? If not, i wait anxiously.

P.S. as for sources: On my mind when writing this "editorial" is mostly the press release by S. Lake city's sherrif department, no link provided, find it if you want it.

Edit: If you refuse to read everything else I quote in this topic, read this... Though everything else I've quoted were a) first hand accounts of what happened or b) news reports. This is the last article I'm quoting here just because I believe this article sums up perfectly how the law enforcement agency went outside their boundaries to shut down this particular party and many other parties of the sort in the past.

http://www.newutah.com/modules.php?...ticle&sid=63032

Quote:
No citizen should be subjected to criminal charges for a crime he might commit. This is a fundamental principle in our society: One does not take blame for what might happen, only for violations of the law that he actually commits.
Utah County Sheriff Jim Tracy seems to see things differently.

In an interview with the Daily Herald on Wednesday, he indicated that he believes law enforcement has the authority to assume a violation will be committed, and officers may therefore go straight to writing a citation.


That is what happened Saturday night at an outdoor music concert and dance in Diamond Fork.

The event -- a rave -- was held on private property owned by Trudy Childs. An estimated 300 young adults attended the gathering, which was shut down at 11:30 p.m. by about 90 law enforcement officers in a massive show of force that included helicopters, dogs and assault rifles.

Some plainclothes officers with cell phones had mingled in the crowd and observed illegal drug activity, which has occurred at similar events. That -- combined with law enforcement's allegation that the gathering itself was illegal because proper county permits had not been obtained -- is what triggered the raid. SWAT teams stormed the crowd to make arrests, and many attendees, including the landowner, are now crying foul.

All the facts are not yet in with regard to criminal activity in the crowd. We expect to know more in the coming days. But we do have ample information to evaluate Tracy's claim that Childs had not obtained a necessary permit for the event.

The fact is, Childs did not need a permit.

Tracy protests that she did need one, but we believe he is wrong. Here's why:

A county ordinance specifies exactly the circumstances under which a mass gathering permit must be obtained from the Utah County Commission, and when a permit is not required. No person may host a gathering "of an actual or reasonably anticipated assembly of 250 or more people which continues or can reasonably be expected to continue for 12 or more consecutive hours" unless the host has a license, the ordinance reads.

The electronic beats at the rave began thumping at 9 p.m. Saturday. We cannot know exactly how long the party would have gone if police hadn't hammered down. But we do know a few things. We know, for example, that the promoter's agreement with the sound technicians was to end the show at 6:30 a.m. Sunday, as dawn approached. Privately contracted security personnel confirmed that they, too, were scheduled for that time period.

So the concert was intended for nine-and-a-half hours, well inside the 12-hour limit. It was a business proposition, and that was the deal.

In painting a picture that the gathering violated county public assembly codes, Tracy misrepresents not only the facts in Diamond Fork but distorts the proper role of law enforcement. We hope he understands his limitations as an officer of civil government.

Tracy said that authorities reasonably anticipated a crowd of thousands and expected partygoers to linger to 9 a.m. and beyond. "People are up all night partying hard and have a camping area," he said. "If you've been up since 9 o'clock the night before, we are assuming you're not going to jump right up and get out of there, and will exceed the 12-hour period."

Read that carefully again, with particular attention to "we are assuming." Tracy is saying that the 12-hour ordinance was violated because law enforcement, not the event host, anticipated the gathering would last more than 12 hours. This is an unjustified and even dangerous view.

It is not law enforcement's prerogative to enforce assumptions -- to hand out criminal or civil citations based on what might happen. Accusations must be made on the basis of actual observable acts, not on what a cop thinks will occur in the future.

Let's say a highway patrolman with a radar gun in a 60 mph zone clocks a driver at 59 mph. He cannot ticket that driver on the assumption that the car will soon be going much faster.

In short, the anticipation of a crowd of 250 for 12 hours as specified in the law must belong to the event host. If the host believes that a gathering will not exceed 12 hours, and he ensures that it does not (as was done in the case of the Diamond Fork rave), he is simply not required to obtain a permit.

No citizen of this country is required to impose more law upon himself than is specified by statute. And no county sheriff has a right to impose it, either.

This ordinance is written in the passive voice -- specifying an event "reasonably anticipated ... to continue" for 12 hours. It doesn't say who is to do the anticipating. Apparently Tracy believes it is he himself. But this is an implausible reading of the law. Such an interpretation would make the county sheriff the sole arbiter of which public gatherings require a permit and which do not. Tracy could prohibit anything he wanted, from a political rally to a knit-in or company picnic -- any gathering that is otherwise protected under the First Amendment's guarantee of the "right of the people peaceably to assemble."

Typically, in potentially embarrassing situations, law enforcement seems to reach for every thread of support it can find to justify its actions. It appears to us that Sheriff Tracy is reaching in just this way with arguments about permits for Saturday's rave. The organizers did get the required mass-gathering permits for on-site sanitation, and that's apparently all they really needed.

We understand that law enforcement is a difficult job. We also understand that some crimes were likely committed at the rave. But officers should not attempt to make their tough job easier by playing fast and loose with statutes, or by spinning the meaning of the law in hopes of achieving a favorable public relations effect.

hahahaha, i hope you come back to read this 5 years from now when you are an adult that owns property, respects authority and maybe has kids.  You will laugh and we will still be laughing at you.

always so constructive with your worthless added comments

I've talked to and heard from plenty of parents who have jobs, own property and obviously have kids who think this is outrageous. My parents for one...

[me]waits for another worthless comment from Fah or Civic[/me]

To start this off, I am going to give two qualifying statements....

1. IF the stories of (NON confrontational) girls being punched to the ground for no reason, batons and beatings issued on kids with cameras is true, then I will agree in part with the assertion that this was an over the top Raid, and those actions were incorrect. 

2. So far, I have seen no pictures of bruised and swollen faces, Bloody lips (as we did for the SanFrancisco wharf protest crackdown) or other photographic evidence for these beatings. NONE. and I would venture to say, that if it were true, just as the Raver's Blogging community has so diligently documented INJUSTICE about the ENTIRETY fo the police action, we would have seen these images. Yes, I imagaine a couple kids got thrown around a bit, but I am beginning to doubt the TRUE physical severity of the police actions. Rude? Yes, pushy? Probably...Overtly and excessively Violent? I doubt it..this was a SHOW of force, not a heavy application of it.

(Oh, and #3)  The president was in town, and although it is not an excuse, it is most certainly a reason, for an amped police presence.  It is entirely Promoters responsibilty to take every single factor (even obscure ones) into account, and make their events comply accordingly.

That said, I point you to The Daily Herald @ Provo, where the Raver's take on the event is not the MAIN source for eyewitness accounts...http://www.newutah.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=62786

Heres a telling statment, that to my mind entirely justifies the crackdown...

***"Undercover deputies and SWAT members describe the rave with rampant illegal activity. Beyond the anticipated drugs -- ecstasy, cocaine, marijuana, mushrooms -- they discovered counterfeit money, guns and an overdosed 17-year-old girl."

If all those innocent kids are just there to dance their sober little hearts out, what do they need, X, Coke, Pot, Shrooms, GUNS!, and counterfeit money for? Answer that one for me please..please.

**"Tracy (Sherrif) said a primary issue was promoters did not obtain the mass gathering permit required by Utah County for events with more than 250 people. To do so would have required at least 30 days notice and approval from the sheriff's office. County officials acknowledged that organizers did receive a health permit regulating such aspects as portable toilets and on-site emergency medical personnel. (but the secondary permit was one pertainng to security, ie provisions for either official officers to man security points to confiscate drugs and weapons-- by sheix)  (((Hell, if that wasnt the case, can you imagine what a sweet deal it would be to gain a security job for one of these functions...WOOOT!! UNofficial Drug confiscations... FREE PARTY FAVORS FOR ME!!))) Yeahhhh um NO.

Brandon Fullmer, manager of the Uprock Records company that promoted the event, argues that he also obtained the mass gathering permit. He said authorities were denying him a copy of it for proof, but a county official agreed to write a letter verifying it."

--And that last statment flies in the face of all the "sober" eyewitnes accounts of the Documentations being ripped out of Fullmers hands, now doesnt it...and FURTHER, Why would you conduct a Party, if you cannot PROVE (by official COPIES) that you have ALL correct permits....Even if it is difficult to obtain, if you want to cover yourself and the Kids, then you damn well BETTER wait till you can supply those copies for your defense...

And to quote The County Commisioner ""That's all smoke and mirrors," said County Commissioner Steve White. "They were selling drugs. They were committing illegal acts, and as soon as that happened it doesn't matter what kind of permit they had.""" 

Yep, thats how it works in adult world...Guns, Drugs, Counterfeit Money, and OD'd raver chicks AINT GG.
Those arent part of your freedoms, that you can protest having violated...sorry.

"So while Fullmer is consulting his attorney about a possible lawsuit, local law enforcement vow to crack down on the increasingly popular raves."" --well, if Mr Fullmer was entirely justified and covered by permits, they would not STILL be considering this lawsuit, it would have already been filed...And for all the blogging on this matter, i would have expected stronger statements or proof on Fullmers behalf, supporting the Raver's allegations.

---and, to end, IF, and ONLY IF, Fullmer brings a suit, AND HE WINS based on the evidence, I will agree that this was an incorrect application of the law. BUT Until then, I have no choice but to believe that while maybe a few kids got pushed around a bit, the bust was legal, and a thousand screeching, Blogging Ravers cannot change that fact.

Um, if you don't support this raid you don't support the troops because where else are they going to practice implementing martial law on unsuspecting crowds? Come on guys support the 'War on Terror', also I think the government should set up concentration camps and use the corpses of the unbelievers as fuel for their war machine.

A counted 1,470 people were there... look at the confiscated drugs (most of which was the confiscated drugs from the security guards who were doing their jobs)... you could find more drugs at a mall or a club event. You make it sound like every kid there had drugs... I personally have never done any drugs or had a drink at any rave I've been to in the past, I simply go becasue I love the music and I love dancing to it... and if you look at the drugs they confiscated in the raid you'll see that many people have the same reasons for attending as I do.

The girl that 'overdosed' was treated and released on the scene... think about it... that's not even an overdose, the girl probably needed a sip of water... she probably took some drugs and when an assult rifle was pointed in her face she started tripping out.

once again... it's a myth that only 'kids' attend these parties, I know plenty of parents who go to raves. I was at a rave in early august where I saw a couple 50 year old couples, one was there on their 20 year anniversery... many people are around 20-30 years old... just because most of these parties are 16+ doesn't mean that everybody that attends is 16.

If you read the law pertaining that permit that the promoters were 'missing' it states that for the permit to be needed that the event must extend a 12 hour period... this event was scheduled to go 9.5 hours proven by the time slots of the DJs (I've never been to any event that has gone more than 30 minutes over the announced end time) and it's not up to a cop to make an assumption that this event will indeed go over the scheduled time by 2.5 hours.

The police reports originally stated that the raid was legal because of the missing permit, when this issue was brought up they changed their story saying it was because of the drugs... In which case they could have gone in, arrested the people on drugs and the people with drugs on them and simply left the innocent people to dance. You know damn well that it wouldn't have been taken to this level at any rock concert or any rap concert today.

Our government should be spending more money on tracking down sex offenders, major drug distributers... or anything a little more important then a party full of people dancing.

Krush, Im sorry dude but you had to have repeated yourself at LEAST 3 or 4 times over.  Can we please just let this die.  Honestly dude, how much can be said about a party being broken up and kids gettin "wrongly" busted. 

Honestly its old news by now bro.

You are beating a dead horse trying to convince others that their opinions arent correct, an opinion is an opinion, and this forum is full of headstrong stubborn people who dont want to be lectured by an 18 year old mad about some party he wasnt even at, about how it was wrong.

Im not taking sides, this has just gone on for like 5 pages too much.

Write a book over it, Im sure we would all read it. ;)

Yes, Krush, and in the rage of your youth, you missed the entire point.
And from the adult, law abiding standpoint, all of those were legit.

No security permit, yes they had the health permits....And yes , it was under the 12 hrs, BUT as FULLMER STATED, he did not have PROOF that he had the required Security permit...and FURTHER They had no one there OFICIALLY LEGALLY sanctioned to confiscate and hold drugs, and um, Oh yeh the Shrooms, Coke, X, POt, Guns, AND Counterfeit money.

All of which render said permits (had he actually had all them) Null and void.
We'll see how that court case goes. Hell, he might have had everything in line, who knows...
Until then, I say legit bust.

OK.

Lock It.

Once again, all things you can find at a rock concert or a rap concert, or a mall... I'm not sayinig nothing illegal went down... what I'm saying is this would not have gone this far would it have been anything else. If you look at the confiscated drugs, that's barely anything... 1 couterfit $20 bill... a pistol owned by somebody who lived on the property... Illegal, sure, but that doesn't condone using the force they did. Arrest the people breaking the laws, but don't screw over the ones not breaking the law.

btw... if an admin really feels the need to end this topic they can at anytime.

Here's how I feel about it...

If you are going someplace where you KNOW illegal activity takes place, it's your own damn fault when something bad happens to you.  Sure, not everyone was doing drugs...but drugs were being done, and you would have to be a fool not to know it was going on.  I would never put myself in that position.  I don't go anywhere near any type of activity that I know may have illegal activity going on.  And guess what?  I've never been arrested, beat on by police, or so much as questioned about anything.  That's right...32 years old and the police have never fucked with me once.  Wonder why?[/size]

I know drugs are being done at school, I assure you somebody at your local mall is carrying drugs on them, downtown clubs I know for damn sure have drugs being used and sold and the same goes for conerts... does this mean I shouldn't go?

I love this music more than anything in the world... my whole family does and it's a huge part of our lives.  Every event has a few bad apples, but that doesn't mean we should all stop going... I go because I love it... I love the feeling of being a part of something where everybody is so nice, to me it's the best feeling in the world... the whole atmosphere is what I love and that's why I go. I fight for it because I don't want this to end, I don't want to be stuck listening to the side of electronic I like the least in a club atmosphere where people still do drugs and all they care about is looking good.

It may be something only somebody who has attended a rave could understand... I'm not sure but that's how it seems.

Heart-rending... Didn't you do all kinds of acids, mushrooms, ecstasy, etc yourself not that long ago? ::)

I have in the past though I've never done them at any rave... if you want verification on that I'll get my brother on here. I've been working on quitting many of the drugs I have done in the past, I sill attend raves and I still haven't done a single drug at a rave... So I have no idea what this has to do with the issue at hand.

ecstasy makes you grind your teeth, pacifiers, gum and other chewing things help you not destroy your teeth.

Krush, keep it to drinking alcohol and smoking pot, and you'll be 100% ok. That's all I ever do, of course I smoke pretty much every day and drink every weekend.

heh... nah, I've already quit smoking pot and I simply choose not to drink.

Edit: not to say I've quit everything yet.

Good Choice

[sarcasm]I guess they have to practice on somebody eh? why not on those unarmed civilians that are 'different' from the average person.[/sarcasm]

alright mr. admin... this topic hasn't turned into spam until you started posting the off-topic "let this topic end"... nobody is forcing you to read it, so don't.

are you saying martial law has boundaries? this wouldn't be the first case of military practicing martial law, they've done it to entire towns.

Dark, you only live once, and on that note, DRINK UP!

Macaddict forums have caught the story, its pure minithink.

link. (http://www.macaddict.com/forums/topic/68870)

Well.. As a DJ for such events.... I will Also back up the statement that the RAVE scene has changed majoly over the past years.. The Drungs are not as there like they were when they passed the RAVE laws. WE host a once a month Thing (yes its at a club but we also do parites outside of the club when we can) and most of the peeps that come ... come to listen to the DJ's and music.... break dance... and just hang out with the other peeps there........ I have seen one of these paries have over 1000 peeps there... no fights... no problems.. just peeps there enjoing the music... on the other hand.. Working in night clubs in the hip-hop scene.. I see drugs all over the place... fights every night.. Underage drinking

I will also sy.. Raves are a diff type of people.. The police could have come in there.. asked the promoters to sut down the music and tell everyone to go home.. and they would have done it.

Now I will also say that its not just KIDs doing this... The mojority of the peeps around here that participate in eents like this are from 22-34.. Most of the "KIDS" around here hate electronic music... (they are the Rap era). Around here.. we dont call them Raves.. b/c if you call it a rave.. and the police catch wind of it.. they automaticaly assume that its a drug party wich is the complate opposit.. right now we are planning an even with all the proceeds to go to the huricane relief. Does this sound like a bunch of drugged out kids who just want a reason to do drungs together.. no.. Its responcible adults wanting to do something to help out! (the same thing that MTV, VH1, CMT, and a few others are doing... and those concerts will have 10 times as many peeps (per capita) who will be doing drigs t them.. and fighting.. and causing problems.

finally... somebody who knows a little something about the scene!