*DAMN R6 Forum

Where do you stand on equal protection for our fellow gay and lesbian American's in our communities and our workplaces?

Who says we would do that? thats another generalization.

I'm pro-choice because I don't see why a mother should be saddled with a baby that she doesn't want. The baby could possibly ruin her life, unless she is commited to having it. Why should you bring a child into the world that is at the immeadite disadvantage of being disliked and resented by the parents?

I'm only for abortion if the mother could somehow die from the pregnancy.

I don't agree with  a woman becoming pregnant then running to mom and dad and having the baby killed.

I disagree with a woman's right to choose, and think it's flawed.  Sorry. But it really is. It's just an excuse for a woman who doesn't want to take responsibility for an action she took.

I also dont think rape victims should be allowed to abort.



BACK ON TOPIC:

Marriage between two gay people doesn't bother me in the slightest. In the long run it isn't going to affect me so why the hell should I care.

Py, watch your mouth.  I dont believe I need to explain to you why.  If you feel like you've been wronged, I've copied a transcript of your original post and will save it, if you'd like to contest the editing with Mauti when he is next availible.  I do not advise that, since if you do I will do everything in my power to get you a 2nd warning.

Second, if you'd like to move the last part of your post about Gay rights to the appropriate thread, you're more than welcome to.  I couldnt split your post in half, and had to put it in either this thread or the other. -Lone

Woah woah ok so we're moving topics here but given that Rebel is going to refuse to backup or discuss his views perhaps its time we move.
GS i don't think anyone believes in killing babies. - the issue here where our views vary is the point at which people agree that duplicating cells become an embryo becomes a baby etc... oh shit hold on

ok this explains what im saying better

 (http://www.visembryo.com/baby/nav/spnav.7.gif)


Ok take a look at it its actually really interesting. This is how things look at aprox week ten [img]http://www.visembryo.com/baby/stages/10stcelln.gif
Now some would say those are just reproducing cells etc, others say thats a human life etc... im not sure what the legal limit for abortion is over in the States ( i actually think it should be shorter after conception given new research)

People who are not against abortion do not belive in baby killing. They arn't against abortion because they feel at that time it is not a baby - and surely we must agree that from the point of conception your not dealing with a human straightaway - well if not im not going to ask ;)

That story of adoption sounds wonderfull, i wish every adoption was like that. Unfortunatly it isn't.

ps... PY It is allways of course the girls fault if she becomes pregnant is it? what world do you live in? as for those other comments regardingim assuming your either a kid, or you have a sick mind and you think its funny to post this shit in a serious conversation or a mixture of all of them. a girl gets pregnant so she is a bitch? Who the fuck do you think you are?

Learn some respect for other people and for life, and don't ever say something like that regarding rape victims because someone like me who lives just a little bit closer will beat the hell out of you, shit im going outside before i rip the fucking keyboard to pieces.

ps... PY It is allways of course the girls fault if she becomes pregnant is it? what world do you live in? as for those other comments  im assuming your either a kid, or you have a sick mind and you think its funny to post this shit in a serious conversation or a mixture of all of them.


I didn't say it's always her fault. But she did have a hand in the creation of the child. She CAN say no.


And what comments are you talking about? Rape victims? Woman's right? What?

What do you mean 'what'?  Cant you fucking read your own comments?



Jesus i can't read this forum if there are pieces of shit that are going to say things like that.

hmmm, now that's one of the things that makes me angry.  My sister was a victim of rape and she had an abortion, partly because she has severe heart problems and partly because she could never stand looking at a child who reminds her of that horrible day.

I have lots of sympathy for rape victims, obviously you have no idea what they go through...

Now on the topic, I'm not for "baby killing" but I am for abortion if the woman has some problem that may cause death through the pregnancy, or if it's in the case of rape victims.  I don't believe a woman should have to give birth to child she never chose to have (and I'm not talking about getting "knocked up").

Py honestly somethings go to far, lets think before we type.  I agree with you krush.  Rape Victims should be able to have abortions, but Im not sure about those "accidentals" that happen in consentual sex, its just the consequnces of your actions, a "you reep what you sow" kind of thing.

I think malthus was spot on. Social darwinism all the way, let the poor starve!



...a little random I know, I was just extending the logic of what spets was saying.

Ok, moved everything dealing with abortion rights into this thread, from the gay rights thread.  If i missed anybody's post, just shoot me a PM and I'll move it in here ASAP. 

-Lone

I was pro choice until i saw videos of abortions being performed. i still wouldn't say i'm pro life either though, the whole situation is a reflection of the shitiness of society.
rape, of course, has to be pro choice. illegitimate children i'm all for, i don't feel like wedlock is necessary, but then again 99 out of 100 illegitimate kids are going to have unfit parents.

if the government were going to adopt a pro life policy, i'd be fine with it. i think it'd make a lot of people excersize the self control they've been neglecting all along. they'd see their friends getting stuck with their whiney brats on friday night and suddenly realise it's not so fucking hard to go down to the gas station bathroom and pay 25 cents for a condom (i personally use the fancy expensive ones).

i do recommend everyone watch uncensored abortion videos...i don't cringe at much, but i almost had to change the channel when i was watching that.

Bronto im assuming your talking about a abortion that is done in the later stages of devleopment - ie say week 20 rather than week 2... 

This is my problem with this argument - the most inportant factor is overlooked. Where i do not agree in abortion where the feotus has developed and you really are talking about an unborn child, i don't feel the same way about a very very small ball of cells - which is what you start of with.

There is a difference between getting an abortion 3 weeks after realising (if you realise straight away) that your pregnant, and between deciding mid way that actually your going to have an abortion and kill the developing child.

Why people won't discuss this, and why it is allways a absolute "either or" situation i cannot understand.

Yep, A agree w/ GhostSniper, it is one of those consequence things, if you didnt want the baby, dont have sex, or take more proper precautions (There are plenty of birth control ways out there much better than condoms).  You commit a crime, you are punished, you have sex, you make a baby, its the way things are.  Every Action has an equal and opposite REACTION.  Unless it is a rape victim, the way I see it, have the child and give him/her up for adoption.  Imagine what you would think if your parents told you that they thought about having an abortion.... I personally would be mortified.  Every one of those abortions is a murder of a child.  We cannot have this going on in America, or in the world.  Everyone was created equally, those babies were created, but were not equal, because they were murdered and had no charges pressed against them.

DarK.

I see it as a matter of legal rights of a woman, not the emotional/religious/metaphysical and so on.

Legally, a woman has the right to have an abortion, end of story.  Whether it is morally wrong or not is not the goverments job to decide.  If you are morally opposed to Abortion.... dont have one, no one is going to make you.

What's wrong with them having the choice.

P.S. Is there a religious left or only a religious right?

Blood and guts, that law is not set in stone, and may one day be changed.  It is the same as murder, and should not be up to choice.

But murder in some cases is considered alright (not by me)... try to tell me the death penalty isn't murder. Or even a war with no purpose (though I don't blame the soldiers) I still consider it murder.

An arguement like that, DarK, goes right back to the arguement "which week was she in when the abortion took place."

Krush, day one is considered murder if you ask me.

But no one did actually ask you. Let's all go cut a branch off a tree or kill a ant and call it murder. Murder most foul.

So the morning after pill is murder too?

Lose, that is like gas on a fire for these folk.

Really? Well my bad, I just wanted to see what people define as abortion.  The morning after pill works principally by preventing the ovaries from releasing an egg, by affecting the womb lining so that a fertilised egg couldn’t ‘embed’ itself there and it can be taken up to 72 hours after intercourse. To me that isn't abortion and it certainly isn't murder; if you were to call the morning after pill murder you might as well call masturbation murder. But I really don't know much about the development of a fetus so I was wondering when the line is crossed from ontraception to abortion?

...and thus murder, GS?

You just had to tag on your religion, didn't you. If your religion told you that it was wrong to live in a country besides... say.. Ethiopia, would you move?

Of course, ironically, his religion said it was okay to take people from Ethiopia, bring them to the U.S, and hold them against their will. But thats another topic.

No, I will not believe what I want to believe because what if what I want to believe is totally contrary to what is true? I have to constantly challenge my beliefs in order to justify (and therefore strengthen) my faith in those beliefs.

But back on topic... So given your definintion of contraception and abortion and my description of how the morning after pill works, would you consider the pill abortion?

If they were so worried about abortion then would encourage the reasearch of storing embyros removed from a person who doesn't want to be a mother, so they don't have to go through the potentially life ruining experience.

I meant that in the sense of: "Hey, it's a free country...I can't force my beliefs on you."  Understand?


Yes, I consider the morning-after pill abortion, because it kills a fertilized egg...which means at that point it ends life.

You should add in my opinion, because many don't consider 2 cells a form of human life.

And yet you don't seem bothered by the hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people murdered by the US?

What was it we were saying the other day about people just 'fitting' the bits of a religeon they wanted and ignoring the rest.


But we can stop you from learning about the Theory of evolution, we can stop you from having an abortion, shit we can even stop you from living together if your not married so it seems in some states.

BFG murdered BY the US or IN the US?  And how can you be stopped from learning the theory of evolution?  A parent has the right to not have or have their child taught that.  Most of the time people who complain dont want creationism taught.  And I dont think the state can stop anyone from living together (they can stop gay marriages at this time)  I want to know what BFG and Spikes Religions are as well, because I think GS is talking about Christianity in General.

Well, we can stop you from having the same legal benefits of marriage as a "normal" couple might.

Dark, because you can really judge people by their religions of course. For the record I am religionless.

Myst I never said you could judge them by that... but I am just asking what their religions are since like 33% of the world is christianity.  ( I dont think Im being ignorant with that statement)




ps HA! mysterio

Half the world is not christian. Let's pull up some real numbers.

(http://www.adherents.com/images/rel_pie.gif)

What does their religion have to do with anything. If you rely on your religion, or your parents, to set your morality, then you are ignorant.

Let's try to keep this on-topic.

Because I love you, Spike.

Where's the green type lone? It makes me all squishy inside when you act all moderator like...

So would I, actually.


Here's the problem - a real "pro-life" position isn't one that forces women to have babies against their wlll, which is what pro-life is today. Pro-lifers are properly termed pro-birth or anti-choice.

A real "pro-life" position would advocate free and excellent prenatal and postnatal care for all women. It would garuntee all children in our country free and excellent healthcare. It would strive for excellent schools, provided to children as a free service. It would desire protectionist environmental laws so that polluters are forced to change their ways, so that are kids can live healthier lives. It would fight to grant single mothers abandoned by their children's fathers and ostracized by their society the respect they deserve as mothers, and to have them treated as first-class citizens in this country.

None of which so-called "pro-life" advocates are interested in. They just want to force women to have babies. In my opinion the advocates of the "pro-life" position promoted within this forum are truly only interested in domination and controling women. Women get what's coming to them, right? Stupid cunts shoulda kept their legs closed like God intended, and, if I do fuck'em and stick my kid in thier gut, they better fucking have my God-damned kid, or else. And that's where their interest ends.

My problem with the so-called pro-life position of compulsory births is that it isn't pro-life at all, just pro-birth/anti-choice. And nothing good comes from forcing women to have children against their will.

We can do better than that.


No one wants to force women to have abortions, either. Liberals and common sense moderates want abortion to be a choice of last resort, but never-the-less a choice. This country has room for people who don't want to have abortions, as well as those that demand the right to choose.



Which bible doesn't advocate slavery? I was under the impression it did.

Also, Ghost, you say this is a free country and believe what you want to, but you (and correct me if I'm wrong) would want abortion outlawed and criminalized, thus banning a woman's right to choice what happens within her own body. How do you square your "be as you are" rhetoric with your "do as I believe" position?

freedom is such a broad term. no form of establishment will EVER offer you freedom. they will allow you to do things that they see fit, and that is what they call freedom. america is not freedom.

John Lennon - Imagine
check out those lyrics if you want to know what freedom would be like.

I kind of like this arguement.  Usually when a right to life person gets in my face and goes postal I just asked them, "how many kids have you adopted". Basically this gives them about .5 seconds to shut up.  You see, these people want the whole world to be some panacea where all children are brought about under marriage and the parents are mature and ready to support offspring.  The sad reality is that these kids that do get to live are thrown into a society that still looks upon them as bastards and puts them in a situation that is proven to be disadvantaged. The facts are the dads usually don't stick around, the mother is thrown into government support or the child is abandoned.

One crazy statistic.  I am currently reading this book, "freakanomics", you can look it up on amazon.  This book was written by an economist who analyzes strange questions and finds the answers with actual data ( this is a quick summation to save time).  In short, he proved (and I haven't researched his data myself) that abortion that was legalized in by Roe Vs. Wade, actually lead to the decline in crime since the  mid 90's to what we even see today.

The reason being, these disadvantaged children who would of been forced into society never had a chance to live.  Being that these are the same kids who are statistically the majority of people who eventually lead a life of crime. Crime was actually on the rise since the 60's until this generation of children reached the age of the average criminal 16-32.  Since the pool of disadvantaged kids was reduced due to abortion, crime fell proportionatly.

Whether or not it is right or wrong it has many implications.  Sixhits is right in that if we let the staunch pro-life standard exist, society must then be ready to support the products of it.  if not we essentially create a monster, a large generation of alienated people. So pro-lifers, get ready for raised taxes, government programs and a reduction in your standard of living, and I don't think many of you would be comfortable with this no matter what god commands it. Besides, frugality and love thy neighbor is the basis of Christianity, time to pay up and lose the big TV.

... hehe i can just see the hard core Christian Republicans running screaming into the distance ;)

As for the topic of Abortion i can only say that it is the right of the mother and father to choose if they want to have it or not. I mean sure you can have it and give it away, but once you see it and hold it most people cant give it away. Like BFG said when you abort it is not a human it is just a cell. Now if the women is raped then i see no problem at all with getting one because that is just wrong in so many ways.
This goes with the whole abstinence thing which i do not agree with at all. Amazing to because i do have  christian faith i just don't let it run my life.

amen!

I agree Maniac

http://www.dumpalink.com/media/1116488430

come out from your closet!

.....what the hell was that about? If you want to discuss abortion rights, do it here. If you want to make fun of GS go somewhere else. And to be honest, I don't think I consider that person gay at all(if thats what you are implying), harmless fun and ppl who aren't afraid of doing innocent, stupid, and somewhat funny things. I laughed my ass off looking at it. But it still has nothing to do with abortion.

Act beautifully, not dutyfully!

Hmm one sec im just going to look up a few IP's


On a topic note - you guys see in the news how an Korean and american team have just just taken a huge step forward in stem cell research!  ::applause::

Thank god some one's doing it.

This is actually the first time ive looked into this thread, and thats what i see. Well BFG, i dont post in threads like these cause they go nowhere. No ones views will change, nothing will be changed here, just people yelling back and forth about what they think with no real direction. But, for once, i will post in a thread like this.

Abortion:
I believe that the only time a mother should be able to abort is if she will die from the baby, or if she was raped. I believe this because if a woman has sex with someone on her own free will and doesnt want to use any birth control, its her fault and she should have to live with it. Either that or give the baby up for adoption.

Gays in the army/workplace:
Straight up, no pun intended, no gays in the army. How can we feel safe with a bunch of fags running around with guns too busy looking at other guys asses to protect our country? As for gays in the workplace, I have no problem with them as long as they keep their sexuality to themselves. I cannot put up with flamboyant gays. The ones that just flaunt around, if you want to be gay, fine just wait to you get home to your life partner and be gay there, but dont let your sexuality effect the workplace.

What bullshit.

i love how you layer in the hate and bigoty, both towards women and gays.

You're all set to demand unreasonable gobs of personal responsiblity from women who fuck, but what of the men who fuck them? What of yourself? Are you prepared to live by your own rules? If you fucking a girl and put a baby in her, are you going to raise that child? You honestly going to love it and care for it? You going to marry her, like a good Christian? Of course you're going to claim you will -- but we all know your type. Big talker when it's going to ruin someone else's life. Bet your wallet would come out fast for that abortion.

As for gay people in the military. Guess what homophobe, gays are EVERYWHERE in the military. They're sneaky like that, but only because uncivilized nuts like demand they hide who they are in order to serve the country they love. Many gays have fought and died for us. They're braver Americans than you or I, and your flithy slander of their patriotism disgusts me.

i don't rememeber -- did you support the war in Iraq? Why aren't you over there fighting, it if you did?

Basically, all you have to say is: "I hate women. I hate gays. I want to dictate to other American Citizens how to live their lives and what the rules of life will be. But, they cannot do the same to me."

Go sit on a pike, Rebel.

Since when do i hate women? Wtf is that bullshit? What im sayin is abortion is not the answer. Theres something called adoption. Tell me something. After reading this entire thread, every time GS mentions adoption, its never brought up in anyones comeback. Tell me sixhits, what is wrong with adoption?

Nothing's wrong with adoption. But when people like you  and GS start adopting babies you can make an impassioned call for forced-birth. As it stands in reality, forced-birth anti-choice advocates like yourself refuse to adopt children, in direct contrast with your own so-called moral values. Proof? 500,000 kids in foster homes. They're not adopted. Where's the religious right on this, their own issue?

Nowhere. Because you don't care about babies - you care about controling women, because you hate them.

As i said before, people like you aren't pro-life, but anti-choice. You woulld take away a woman's right to choose what happens within her own body. You would force her to have a baby. Then, you abandon her. No garanteed healthcare for her kids and no proud support for her as a mother (just condemnation of her single mother status).

The liberal position is America's position: the right of every citizen of self determination.

And something's wrong with you when you say, "I believe this because if a woman has sex with someone on her own free will and doesnt want to use any birth control, its her fault and she should have to live with it." First off, it excuses men from having any responisbliy in regards to birth. Second, you lay blame for pregancy on the woman. That's incorrect and chauvinist. Third, the subtext of your comment is that birth is her fitting punishment, the filthy whore.

No rational person considers birth to be a fitting punishment, no rational person blames women for getting pregnant, no rational person excludes men from the equation. Such positions can only be born out of hatred for women. Besides, the very words you've used over the course of this conversation reveal your distain for women. Don't run from what you've said; be proud of your hate.

Of couse us "pro lifers" refuse to adopt children, BECAUSE WE FIND SOMEONE WE LOVE AND MAKE BABIES AND START A FAMILY. Pro lifers also wouldnt just fuck a chick without a condom or some sort of birth control. And if those didnt work and we still had a kid, we would give them up for adoption. You know there are people in this world that cant have kids, and they adopt. I bet if you asked a kid that was adopted or even in foster care if they would rather be dead or alive you could guess the answer.

Keep dancing Rebel. You're still an ignorant hypercrit.

Until you are willing to adopt other people's forced-birth babies, don't advocate forcing women to have babies. Otherwise, you just HATE WOMEN.

Nice try to switch things up at the end, comparing abortion of a fetal cell to the murder of a living human being.

Hey, I bet if you could ask a cow if it wanted to to be eaten it'd say no. You flithy cow eater, you.

Don't turn this into an animal rights battle now Sixhits ::)

Its amazing how you can call me a "hypicrit" when i have not gotten myself in the situation. To be a hypicrit i would of had to had this happen to me and done something different then what i said in my past posts. Please choose your words correctly big guy. Your making a fool of yourself.

oh man i would love to hear a womans point of view here. and not someones gf who's already written his pov's. an arguement used here is very interresting - if its only the "bitches" fault that she got pregnant and not at all the poor dude who put his pecker in her and didnt manage to pull out before he came....then how the hell do you give yourself the right to even talk about HER choice!? the dude made up his mind when he didnt pull out, didnt put on a condom, didnt make sure that she's on or off the pill etc etc etc etc. and yes, she has the same responsibility as him.
but just the word bitch in that sentence flushes your whole arguement down the toilet. another interresting thing about the debate on a WOMANS choice is this. we are talking about the freedom of women and their choice to do what they want with their bodies in the same way that we/men can do whatever the hell we want. i watch a debate on tv about muslim womens rights and i see a bunch of men deciding what should happen. i watch a christian debate about abortion and i see a majority of men deciding what should happen to a woman. the moment a guy puts his dick in some chick and doesnt put on a condom, doesnt make sure she is on the pill, doesnt let her know that he's gonna finish off inside her...in my eyes, he has no choice but to deal with HER choice on what to do after. it is her body and it doesnt matter what religion she has.

2005! there is so much shit going on in the world and comparing this to murder is way out of line in my humble opinion. this is about a womans rights and the arguements that are used are just way too simple. there are so many elements in peoples lives that make the calls that they or we do. simple scenarios are silly. ofc rape is a HUGE factor when it comes to a womans choice to do what SHE wants to do with her body. so is her view on the future of her own life. sure people can adopt and for alot of people that works. for alot of people it doesnt. its just a simple sollution to a much wider problem. and the problem would be gigantic if women wherent allowed to make their own choices about their bodies. it would become a social problem and a much bigger political problem.
please travel to india and watch children beg for food and money and wonder....why does that child have a leg that looks backwards? probably because a parent broke it so the child would look more in need of help by strangers or tourists. cross the border to mexico(closer to home) from california and have a bunch of little children sell you chiclitas...tell me that you are willing to adopt all of them or atleast have a sollution for it. go to africa and adopt a child that his or her parents died from starvation or killed by a rebel. im all up for finding sollutions and helping children. but i really wish that more people would travel, see more of the world and the shape people are in before they start making choices on their behalfs. and this includes america, just so that u didnt think u could say - oh i was talking about the u.s. im including america as much as the rest of the world. most uf us here are so damn priviledged. most of us are in safe homes with cool gadgets and enough money to get by..or more. we should in no way be the ones that "think" we can decide for people that have less than us what they should do or not do. this should not be a discussion about religion or murder it should be about womens rights in whatever situation she is in.

on the other hand. i would agree that people in longer relationships or married - the choice of abortion should ofc be discussed. but thats where i draw the line. it should be discussed and thats that, because in the end of the day - SHE SHOULD BE ABLE TO DECIDE WHAT SHE DOES WITH HER BODY.

we're in 2005 ffs. do something interresting. google china and find out how many children they are allow or what sex.

just silly

 

Sorry rebel so which is it? you don't have any symphy for rape victims,  you think



... Um?



Im not sure if that is comical or just sad.

Im not sure if that is comical or just sad.

Yeah BFG, i would be forced to agree... fucking sad indeed....
Almost, but not quite comical.

Rebs, its those utterly retarded backwards ass statements like that, that make the rest of the world think that you acually represent ME as an american....guess what? you don't.  Given the wisdom youve graced us with, what makes YOU as an individual, morally superior to the misguided religious fanatics that were dropping bombs on? (im SURE with your gleeful approval)

Fags? Bitches? What fucking century do YOU live in, bro?
Hes managed to become so progressive as to actually appear RE-gressive...

Ive left Rebs arguments alone, (ALL of em) because well, unlike Sixhits, who can fight back just fine, debating Rebel seems about as challenging as beating the shit out of the cancer kid that sits in the back of the class...Which would be patently unfair because his compromised immune system is too weak to defend itself.

WOAH! I just realized that Rebel has his own emoticon....sweet!
 ::nade::

Like someones sig says, "never argue with an idiot, they will just drag you down to their own level and beat you with experience."

Rebel is one of those rare cases where it's just too stupid to be comical.

of course rebel has no sympathy towards rape victims, after all he will need to create "victims" in order to get any action (i remember your picture baseball boy).

As a devout hasidic atheist, we need abortion to harvest the sweet nectar from the fetuses, so we can raise the true dark lord, SATAN, into his position of supreme ruler of the world.

Exactly what I was going to say.

Where the fuck have you been jeb?

He's been avoiding me ever since I called his bluff and bought him his GameRanger Premium account.  ;)

No, you bought me premium because i made fun of you so hard, you  wanted me to like you by paying for my premium. So instead i laid the biggest pwn ever (even better than finding rapid's hotdog stand website, or even the mass bannings for idleing, or even maybe when i slept with ace's fat sister), and you spent 50$ on something for me that web unused. I was planning on selling my account (you know you want it snipe) and donating the procedes to either the democratic party or the ACLU. But of course, i am far to lazy.

In the mean time, i bought a pc, and i'm happly playing games on it.

So hahahahaha ghost sniper, in the end i'm not the one living in mississippi. Pathetic

Not that Jeb is actually going to read this, but keep it on topic. GS if you would be so kind just bite your tongue and send him a mean PM, or put something in the spam drop box if you are so inclined.  I'd like to let this thread die a natural death.

-Lone

Okay, back to the abortion issue...

I have always been against abortion.  I've always thought that a much better alternative would be to simply have the child and then put him/her up for adoption.  Again, a girl I dated in high school got pregnant when she was 16 and had the baby and put her up for adoption when she was 17.  I always thought very highly of her for that.  Now, there is a flipside as well.  My best friend, a woman who is 26 years old, has had 3 abortions.  Now, I am very strong in my beliefs that abortion is wrong, but when it comes to her I have the upmost sympathy for her situation and support her completely.  The first time she had an abortion was when she was raped when she was 16 years old.  The second time was when she was cheating on her husband with another man and got pregnant.  Now, this sounds like a time when I would be against abortion, but it turns out I'm not.  Her husband was both physically and mentally abusive to her, and she was cheating on him as a way of "escape" from her situation.  The pregnancy was an accident, of course, but she knew if her husband found out he would probably kill her.  So she had the abortion.  The 3rd time was a similar situation to the 2nd.  And it was this time that I realized she was now doing this more out of habit, from bad things that had happened to her earlier in her life.  Not that I condone what she did, but I understand it.  I am still against abortion...but when it comes to her I have a double-standard.  But hey, at least I'm human.  ;)

Cuddly, caring death dealing sniper man. And that's why we love you, GS. :P

And your response above in why I respect you. I know why you believe the way you do, and that you also believe it's fair for others to disagree and do otherwise. it's a trait I wish I had more of.

Ok, i guess this should be on topic, or else...

Ghost sniper, if abortion is immoral, would the moral way out of a pregnancy be falling down some stairs? just kidding.

Many women don't like the idea that the government should tell them they have to be pregnant for 9 months, then give up their child at the end of it. Pregnancy isn't exactly an easy thing to go through, its not just a small bump in the road, its a huge fucking detour in your life to go through that.

The fact that the church (the only moral people in this world) will only accept moneyshots as birth control, is a terrible thing.
It makes plenty of sense to me to push education on safe sex, or provide other options like the morning after pill in order to curb the amount of abortions. Even though the bush braintrust spends money on promoting abstinence, and not giving money to developing countries who are pushing birth control to control the spread of aids. Also, is it not fact that bush paid for a abortion for one of his girlfriends back in the day?

I do actually respect ghostsnipers opinions because their are personal. Nothing is worse in this world than some religious nut dictating how i live my life, based on some fantasy they envelope themselves in. In the end, abortion is a personal decision for the women in this world. If you are against abortion, for the love of christ, you don't have to have one.

Actually, I think that's a sin cause you're wasting the semen. I thought it was either "in" or not at all. Maybe we can get some biblical scholars to verify the sanctity of the facial?