*DAMN R6 Forum

Hello,

I know we all like to debate politics, the system and life in general.  The Mary Schiavo case right now has everything incorporated in one.  This is a truly sad story, but if you are following it, it is a wild example of how our legal system works and how government works.  Not only that, but you see the raw emotion of the right to life issue pitted versus a man's belief of what his wife's last wishes were.

I can see this arguement getting heated if you would like to state your opinion on this.  Let's debate the overall issue, the courts decisions and how we feel about the american government itself passing legislation on the issue. 

Here are my points.  Legally the right for her to die has been approved and reassured.  The husband is legally titled to her choice of life or death, and he even states that she wished to have the plug removed in this type of instance.  But, I feel for the family who wishes for her not to die and are willing to take full custody and take care of her.  I also feel it is an atrocity for Congress and the president to get involved in this, we trust the courts to interpret the constitution and they are jumping in for their conservative beliefs trumping the system.

In all I feel they should let her die.  What are your ideas and final ruling?

read some of the story here:
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/21/schiavo/index.html

Well, Hello Detective GhostSniper. Let her die. Oh yeah, and ban overage driving.

Well, actually the lady was bulimic and she slipped into the coma due to a lack or too much of potassium (I forgot which one). Same thing that killed karen carpenter.  So the exacts of her husband having something to do with it is just false hype and conspiracy theory.  In fact her husband took her to get medical care, which she barely received that led to the current situation.  In fact hey won a small malpractice suit do to this.

The husband seems very sure that she wouldn't want to live in this state. If he can say that, there's no reason why I or anyone else who didn't know her to say differently. The parents (who as I understand it don't want her to die) seem to be struggling with outliving their daughter.

This case is quite difficult, from the medical and from the ethnical point.

One big medical problem here is that you can't know exactly if coma patients really perceive their surroundings. Therefore, we can only make assumptions.

Lets assume, that she really is awake, but just can't communicate because the signals from the brain aren't recieved by her organs. Then, she must be suffering horribly for the last 15 years, and should have gone crazy for the lack of being able to communicate. In that case, prolonging her life for another, say 15, years, would be very cruel.

But, on the other hand, if she really is brain dead, and not just a brain without the ability to overcome the inhibitions of a crippled body and nervous system, all her body functions are only instinctive. Since a patient, who is brain dead, can have a functioning vegetative nervous system, and can be kept alive for a long time, there is the problem of defining the word "alive". Would this person really by alive? Can a body, whose heart is still beating, but no brain activity can be measured, be called alive? Every day people suffer a stroke, or other brain damages, and many of these are only left alive long enough to extricate their functioning organs to help other people.

I think it is quite egoistic of her parents to keep her alive for so long. I can understand the feelings they must have, as they seem to think their daughter should be murdered. But, there always comes a time when one should stop to mourn and move on. It is egoistic to latch onto her that hard.

from what i read, they said she had an oxygen deprivation. i dunno how this stuff works, but apparently the guy got a large amount of money to keep her alive and soon after recieving it, decided to let her die (after promising to do everything he can to keep her alive). also, the guy already has a new woman and everything. i was thinking that he strangled her and then called the ambulance. if anything i said is wrong, tell me because i see these things on the news and what not, sometimes i don't remember them too well.

Strangling someone leaves visible evidence. Doctors would be able to tell if it was a attack or a health problem.

yeah i was thinking that, but i dunno maybe it depends on if you rub the skin or dig your fingers in. good point, she should probably just get taken off.

If she suffered prolong oxygen loss, she would be have a very damaged brain, thus limiting thought and control. I wouldn't want to live with that level of disability, it would drive you crazy not being able to express yourself in anyway.

bronto, the lack of oxygen was due to the low potassium levels I explained before.  It was a strangling.  When potassium levels reach a certain low point, your heart begins to convulse creating a heart attack.  Thus creating the inability to breath, and the subsequent loss of oxygen to the brain.  They were able to revive her and she is at her current state.  But after many tests, scans and therapy, they declared her beyond recovery almost 8 years ago.  The battle in the courts is what has kept her body alive this long.

Bronto, exactly how many decades was he supposed to wait with a vegetable wife before dating again? It is absurd to expect someone to remain faithful to a person that isn't really there in any relational sense for very long at all. Humans have needs.

I think there is nothing suspicious where he is concerned, and it is all slander against him to discredit his court supported view that she wishes to be removed. The religious right is showing itself to be heartless and the Republicans in congress are overstepping their bounds and will likely pay for it since the vast majority of the public supports the husband.

I agree totally with Bondo here. I don't quite understand why a case dealing with a single person went to congress... is this normal in the US? Any physiologist would tell you this is the parents pushing away their nightmare of outliving their child.

although i totally understand the parents, i think its pretty selfish of them to keep their poor daughter

There are four things which piss me off about this issue:
1) That the Right is using this private citizen's fate as a political power grab: they are willing to move the entire Congress, to alter the law, and to usurp years of lawful conduct by both parties and slander our court system in order to gain political points. This is lead by Tom Delay, perhaps the most corrupt politican in the country, who is in the middle of an immense scandel over his illegal dealings with lobbiests and other ethical "lapses". He's using this one citizen's fate to grand stand and divert attention from his crimes. Sick. immoral. Hypercritical.
2) That the Right is willing to intervene in the private life of one citizen and control the fate of that citizen in order to circumvent the law according to it's view of right and wrong. This is not the country we were born into if the Congress can alter our individual fate at a whim. We have laws and we have courts for recourse. The Right has no respect for the rule of law, and never has. To them it's all about power over people. We see that lust clearly in the Schiavo case.
3) That the Right is willing to do whatever it takes to save this brain dead woman's life, but thinks nothing of killing civiilians in Iraq, or of providing health care to our citizens, or, for that matter, any government sponsered program. We can spend billion on bombs and move the Congress to pass laws in ONE DAY that are designed to keep a brain dead woman alive, but can do nothing for the millions of American children who are wiht out healthcare. Americans don't matter to the Right, just power, just politics.
4) This is the ONLY TIME Bush has cut short a vacation: in order to fly to the White House and sign this bill. What a dick he is. What a grandstander. Again, consider this: the President of the United States changed the course of his day in order to personally intervene in the private life of one citizen. We no longer live in a democracy, just a despotic theology with the barest trapping of popular concensus.

Or, that and the fact that Bush signed a law in Texas that allows for the doctors at a hospital to terminate the life of a patient if that patient is unable to pay for the cost of maintaining their life; even if the patient is fully conscious; even if the family of the patient wants to keep them alive. Amazingly, this law was just used this week to kill a baby in Texas.

What. Fucking. Culture. Of. Life?

Fucking conservatives and your moral high ground. You don't care. You've never cared. You think all high and mighty, but when it comes to doing good work for the people you wash your hands in blood. But when it can score points politically, you'll move mountains.

Oh, one more odd twist. Tort reform? If the Right had it's way Schiavo would already be dead. Why? Because it was her medical malpratice suit victory that pays for her life support.

Fuck the Right. The world is burning and you harp on this bullshit..

Too bad I don't read replies to my posts that are 5 times longer than my post.  If I did, I might have gotten something out of what you said Sixhits.  As it is, I'll be patiently waiting for the Cliffs Notes version to hit the bookshelves.[/size]

Once again you resort to a lame deception away from the topic in which you were defeated. From now on those type of replies will be viewed as the flag of unconditional surrender.

I can only imagine the depth of laziness that exists within you.

Four things that piss me off about this case:
1) That the Right is using this citizen's fate for a political power grab.
2) That the Right is willing to intervene in the private life of one citizen.
3) That the Right is willing to do whatever it takes to save this brain dead woman's life, but thinks nothing of killing civiilians in Iraq or of refusing to provide health care to all our children.
4) That this was the only time Bush cut short a vacation. To go back and sign this bill.

Additionaly: on the issue of hypocracy - Bush signed a bill into law in Texas that permited doctors to terminate the life of a person on life support if they could not pay, regardless of whether they were conscious or not, regardless of the family's will.

To sum: What. Fucking. Culture. Of. Life?

Ok my point of veiw comes from a diff side.. As a former EMT (Emergency Medical Tech) By the way the laws state (concering us using arificial means to sustain life) Unless there is something legal in writing from the person in question and it is legaly signed by them we have to try to keep them alive by any means possible even if the family (husband, mother, father, whoever) tells us that they have a DNR (do not recesitate) cocument.. We have to have physical proofe of one that has been signed by the person while they are in a right state of mind. So with that being said.. I think that they should keeeo her on the feeding tube due to the fact that she had NO writen document stating that she didnt want to be like this. She is not in a coma.. she is in a vegitative state. She has normal sleep cycles where she sleeps and wakes up like normal people and does respond to stimuli.

Plus there is also the issue of the large life insurance policy she had (this was talked about on a l8t night radio talk show last night). If she dies.. he gets that money from that.. even thoug alot of it has been used already.. he still gets a protty good amount.

So.. i do feel that she should be kept alive by any means possible due to that fact that no one knows for sure what her wishes are. She does NOT have a legal document signed by her stating that she didnt not wantto be like this and she cannot talk.. so she cant tell anyone that she wants the tube removed. Untill she can inform someone herself and legaly sign a document saying thats what she wants.. then she has the right to stay alive till she can do so or dies of natural causes.

Her cerebrum is liquid mush. She will be making no recovery, she has no consiousness, she feels nothing. She is simply a functioning shell with no essence of person. The courts have determined she does have a DNR through verbal contract.

As a nod to my slightly demented side, and my fondness for musical theatre, I've been singing "If I Only Had A Brain" from Wizard of Oz a bit. I'm content with my going to hell.

I'm not all that familiar with the events the lead to her current condition, or what her current condition is for that matter. But if she infact is a "vegetable" I think the spouse should have the final and only word about her faith.

GS, she isn't feeding herself. She's being fed. There's a different.

There is no practical difference between being on a feeding tube and being on a resperator. Without the plug you die. Ghost is being disingenuous.


Which is what's so offensive about the Right's and the President's hypocracy: the President passed a law that allowed just this week for a baby to be taken off life suppport against the will of the baby's parents. Why? because the parent's could not afford to pay for their child's care.


If it had happened inside the mother's belly Ghost would be the first to call it murder. That the baby was killed outside the womb, and hence lacks any political value to him and the Right, makes it so they don't care.


As Representative Shays says (R-Connecticut)"This Republican Party of Lincoln has become a party of theocracy." 

Your party is dead, Ghost. Conservatism is dead. All that you once valued is burning.   

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/23/politics/23repubs.html?ex=1269234000&en=b374f7629523357d&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland

For those that want to inform themselves (apparently not Ghost) you can read the GAL report, the GAL having been appointed by Gov. Jeb Bush. It has an excellent section on the entire history of the case. Of note, the Schindlers only challenged the husband's right to care for his wife after he had won a medical malpractise suit to the tune of 1 million dollars, held in trust for her care, and beyond his control.

To quote: "Michael’s decision not to treat was based upon discussions and consultation with Theresa’s doctor, and was predicated on his reasoned belief that there was no longer any hope for Theresa’s recovery." This was after 3 years of being by her side everday, flying around the country, doing aggressive, often experimental therapys. All in the face of repeated medical reports that Teri would never recover. Michael held onto hope for 3 years, people. How many of us could do the same?

Additionally, the Schindlers actively encouraged him to "move on" and date.

Additionally, Micheal has formally offered to divest himself entirely of his financial interest in the guardianship estate.

Additionally, her parents admited in court that if Teri had ever made them promise to take her off life support in the case she needed it, they would not do so. They also admited that she was in a persistant vegitative state.

download the .pdf here: http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/WolfsonReport.pdf

You can also look at Abstract Appeal, a Terri Schavlio watch dog website: http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/infopage.html

Oh, so a new-born baby that can't feed itself is different?[/size]


I havn't seen anything about this.  Is there more to this that you aren't telling us?[/size]


Oh, are these the same courts that think their job is to make law?  I was always taught that was the job of Congress, not the courts.  Your piece of shit liberal courts have been fucking things up in this country for the last 50 years.  My bad.  I guess I should just throw my degree in Political Science out the window.[/size]


The Republican Party is dead?  Conservatism is dead?  Dude, wake up and smell every election in this country since 1994.  The Republican Party reigns supreme, and has dethroned the Liberal Democrats from their power trip, and now you say the Republican Party is dead?  You are living in a dream world.  Go back to sleep little boy.[/size]

Good. It speaks.

1) You're still wrong. There is no practical difference. But let me be more specific. In the case of Teri S she cannot take food orally, ever again. In the case of a new born baby, the baby can and will be able to consume food orally.

2) http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/3084934 The news story about a conscious baby being killed by a hospital under a Texas law signed by Bush in 1999. Here's the law: http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/HS/content/htm/hs.002.00.000166.00.htm Key section is Section 166.046, Subsection (e):

If the patient or the person responsible for the health care decisions of the patient is requesting life-sustaining treatment that the attending physician has decided and the review process has affirmed is inappropriate treatment, the patient shall be given available life-sustaining treatment pending transfer under Subsection (d). The patient is responsible for any costs incurred in transferring the patient to another facility. The physician and the health care facility are not obligated to provide life-sustaining treatment after the 10th day after the written decision required under Subsection (b) is provided to the patient or the person responsible for the health care decisions of the patient unless ordered to do so under Subsection (g)

Section g "extend(ing) the time period provided under Subsection (e) only if the court finds, by a preponderance of the evidence, that there is a reasonable expectation that a physician or health care facility that will honor the patient's directive will be found if the time extension is granted..."

Ahhh... I see. The Culture of Life is only for those who pay!

What if it was your daughter?

3) Courts don't make the law, Ghost, but State governments do and governers sign them into law. Congress does make law as well. And clearly in this case the courts are not making law. Numerous courts over more than a decade have ruled on this case using the law at hand, even the bullshit law Congress just passed that forced the case to be reviewed by a Federal, not State court, and under which it was rejected yet again. You should throw that degree out the window. You're a car salesman. Hell, you home school your daughter! Degrees are worthless! Just liberal funny writing in pagan langugues, paid for out of stolen cash... stolen right from the pockets of good, God Fearing Conservative Americans? Did you know that your state gets more Federal funding assistance than almost any other? When Ole Miss gets off the Federal tit I'll fucking buy your bullshit.

4) I guess it's how you define the Republican party, ain't it? If you think the party is the same as it ever was then you are just being willfully ignorant... but that's your idiom. And boy do you make my point about how far the GOP has slipped with your lustful joy over how the Party reigns supreme. Smacks of facism. But then that's how I filter the GOP's actions today... "How would it sound if a Nazi said it? Would it fit them?"

You'd fit right in at Nuremberg, buddy. Stick that arm out straight and high while you recant the pledge.

But my point remains telling: all that the Right proposes to believe in by their actions reveal that they do not believe in. You reveal your true Faith: faith in Power. Absolute power.

Eh, but you're not gonna read any of this, nor the supporting links, and you're likely to just continue on your merry way, confident in your ingorant bliss of just how perfect your world is. That might makes right and reason is unreasonable. Etc.

Etc.

The story from Texas this past week was a 6 year old, not a baby being forced to have the tube removed over the parent's objection. I don't think Sixhits is arguing either way on whether the kid should have had the tube removed, though I expect he'd argue that it shoudln't happen against the wishes of his parents (since he doesn't have a wife.)

The Republican party is in danger though. The libertarian wing that is isolationist, economically restrained, and socially about freedom can't stand that Bush has made the Party neo-con, HUGE government (big budget but doesn't do much which is different than Dems who are big budget but they are effective with it and pay for it) and theo-fascist social policy that limits freedom. Of course not everyone is either purely libertarian or fascist. There are many people who are only partially pleased compared to being fully or not at all pleased. The Congress already is splitting with the Adminstration and by the Presidential nomination process it will be nasty.

Actually, a 6 month old.
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/3084934

But who's counting? Killing kids is a conservative pleasure, American or Iraqi.

Okay, this one made me laugh.

A.  I'm a Fleet Sales Manager, not a car salesman.  Besides being a manager, the main difference is that the average car salesman makes around $50,000 a year, while the average Fleet Sales Manager makes about 3 times that (some of us make 4 or 5 times that easy).

B.  We home school our daughter because they fail to teach at an acceptable level in public schools in this state, they aren't the safest places in the world to send your kids, and they have abandoned teaching children that being patriotic is a good thing (Pledge of Allegiance, besides all the revisionist history they teach).

C.  How did my college education come from stolen cash?  I am currently paying back my student loans (something the vast majority of Americans DON'T do), and the other funds for college came from me working my ass off, and from my GI Bill from honorably serving in the Armed Forces of the United States (you could just thank me for protecting your sorry ass when you were a kid, but I guess you are too liberal for that).

D.  I really don't care what you say about this state, as I'm not from here.  I simply ended up here because of the military and since my parents retired from the military here, I decided to stay after I got out of the military here.  Now, if you say anything bad about my home (Oklahoma City, Oklahoma), we'll have to fight!

Peace.

-GhostSniper Out.[/size]

Oh, and I didn't bother replying to everything else you said because at this point you know where I stand, and I know where you stand.  Continuing to argue about it is pointless.[/size]

No point in replying because you disagree. Got it. Well, keep dancing, dude.

We could go down your road and nit pick. It's an old Right tactic: avoid the issue at hand by changing the issue.

The issue is your hypocracy and that of those that you choose to have represent you. You can avoid the fact that fighting to save the life of a brain dead women or a six week old fetus is morally inconsistant with support for the war in Iraq or support for a President who signed a law that allowed for the killing of babies outside the womb, to name a few examples. But, that's not something you can win a debate on. It's also inconsistant with a the Conservative's professed agenda of small government -- what's small about Congress personally intervening in the medical care of a single private individual? And you don't want to address the fact that the GOP is no longer the GOP. Maybe you like what it has become - that's valid; but it's not what it was. Further, you rail against courts "making" law, saying that liberal judges have for 50 years fucked with this nation. That's your opinion. But you're wrong that they "made" law: they ruled on the law. If you don't like those rules, fine, enjoy your freedom to your opinion, but you are WRONG that they MADE THE LAW. And you're wrong, suggesting somewhat backhandedly, that because the left "made" the law via the courts for 50 years it is somehow right for the Right to do so now. To argue thusly is both logically false and morally reprehensible. It's also just plain ignorant.

By the way: do you sell cars? Yes/No? Glorified car salesmen are still car salesmen.

And revisionist history. Right. You are well versed in history. What revisionist history? what non-facts are they passing off as fact in your schools? My argument is that you have distain for education and public funding of education in general but live in a state that takes an overt amount of Federal Funding from public education. That the people you elect manage to STILL fuck it up is your personal responsiblity -- you elected them. Home schooling, to put it another way, is a retreat. Glad to see you run away from a good fight.

And thanks for serving. But do we need to talk about this every time you're opinions are criticized?

Not avoiding the issue, simply stating that I understand where you are coming from, you should know where I'm coming from...so why keep repeating the same thoughts back and forth?  I just said that we disagree.  Fine.  End of story.[/size]


It's like the difference between an Officer in the Air Force, and an Enlisted person in the Air Force.  Sure, they are both Airmen, but one gets paid a hell of a lot more than the other one, besides being in charge.  Understand?[/size]


No, I have not elected them.  I still hold residency in the State of Oklahoma, and still vote in Oklahoma elections.  I don't particularly like this state all that much, and I've always thought the politics here were on the upper end of corrupt (2nd only to Louisiana).  And as for revisionist history, take your pick.  How about how the Nazis are shown to be the pure evil of WWII, yet the Japanese were far worse when it came to rape, murder, torture, and genocide?  But nobody ever talks about the Japanese.  How about the assasination of John F. Kennedy?  Do you really expect anyone with half a brain to believe that Lee Harvey Ozwald killed JFK?  Please.  Yet the history teachers keep on preaching the same old textbook bullshit in schools.  Sorry, but I was a history major and I researched and studied history on my own.  The textbook version is quite different from reality.  One of my favorites is this:  What was the U.S. Civil War fought over?  If you said "slavery" you might want to brush up on your history.[/size]


Yes, you should get down on your knees and kiss my fucking feet if you are ever in my presence.  Careful though, I might kick the shit out of you just because you are a liberal.[/size]  ;)

GS, any moron with half a brain realizes that the civil war was more about economics than simple slavery. Thats something thats taught in high school class rooms. Well, it was taught in my private school. Sure there's a lot of bullshit out there, but how important is it really who killed JFK? He died, and no one has been able to figure it out since, and he has since been shown to be quite an unsavory character.

As to your military service, I agree with sixhits, sure it's great, but we all know you here, we don't need to be reminded, or blugoned over the head with it everytime an arguement comes up.

1) Excuses, excuses. Whatever.
2) Clearly you don't understand me. Are you a car salesman? Amittedly the most uber-cool super rich car salesman ever? Whatever.
3) None of those cases are examples of REVISIONIST history -- just bad textbooks.
4) Facist, anyone? Violence in the face of dissent is a hallmark of the totalitarian.

I'd like to hear how you can justify saying that the abuses by the Japanese were worse than those by the Nazis.

During the German invasion of the Soviet Union, behind each of the 3 Army Groups were Einsatzgruppen Squads from the SS. The things the Einsatzgruppen did to people would make a death Austwitz/Birkeneau sound like a relief. The Einsatzgruppen killed well over a million Jews, and tens of thousands of Soviet Political "enemies".

Everyone understands how nasty concentration camps, death marches ( late in the war ), and the various other means of extermination were, but some people fail to realize just what happened in Soviet Russia.

Nothing that the Japanese did was that bad, or at least not on nearly as big of a scale.

Let's try to avoid side-tracking the thread onto 'who commited worse attrocities during WW2, the Japanese or Germans'.  Alright? Your post was fine, Typhy, but I'm just saying that to everybody else who might have a desire to chip in on the subject.  It's perfectly fine if someone starts up a new thread, but I would like to keep that discussion somewhere not in this thread.

Thanks

-Lone

The big question i keep asking and i cant figure out the answer to is why doesnt the husband just divorce her and give custody to her parents? Problem solved...but he wants her dead....why? The story must go deeper.....

maybe because he feels so strongly that she wouldn't want to live like this and it's cruel.

Maybe because of the life insurance policy that he doesn't get until she DIES?  Hmmmm.[/size]

I like that explanation GS. Bronto, i doubt he still feels "strongly" about her because if he did he wouldnt have a new gf etc.

I guess this explains most of the right's policies. You people are heartless bastards. Did you ever even stop to think if your wife was someone who wouldn't want to live in that state, and you knew that. Yet her parents are trying to hold her back for their own greed and closure in life. Currently I would venture to say he would send the life insurance to a medical development and research organization to prevent people like his wife falling so deeply that they wont ever get back.

would you want to live in the state that woman is living in?

Basically, if u were in her state ur parents would want you to live (or quiet possibly die) and it should be their decision. Point made.

good point, but shouldnt the husband also be capart of the decision? I mean, you are close to your parents but they dont have to understand you to be your parents. In fact some parents are unfit to parent their children and should be denied care of their children (like abusive parents). Also your parents will probably never know you completely.  I have friends who are raised in catholic famillies and their parents think they are saints, and that the kids use their catholic faith to guide their decisions, but what they dont know is these kids cant stand it, and every chance they get away from their parents, they tell me how they think its all bullshit and then they get drunk or high and go commit the most insane acts of debauchery I have ever seen. Obviously these thes guys parents are totally out of touch with their children. You can't choose your parents, but you can choose your spouse. And hopefully you make the right decisions when chosing your spouse, and you get someone who has a more complete understanding of you than anyone else.  Of course, you can wind up with a sadistic mother fucker, but then isnt that more your fault for falling for someone like that? I'd like to see what shiavo's friends think of this situation, and whos side they support.

Christ. You just refuse to inform yourself.

If you REALLY want to be able to comment on this case read the GAL report that was sponsored by Jeb Bush. In it you'll find wonderful little things called "facts". Here's a fact for you: Terri's parent's encouraged Michaal to "move on with his life" by dating. I shit you not. It was when he won a sizable malpratience suit against the fertility doctor she was seeing that the parents suddenly decided he wasn't fit to be her care giver.

Another "fact": Terri has never gotten a bed sore.

If you know what happens to people who are unable to move themselves, you know that a bed sore can lead to death; but they're very hard to protect against, since the only sure thing is to constantly move the patient. Interestingly, guess what Christopher Reeve died of? Complications form an infected bed sore. Guess who was by Terri's said -- according to the person paid by Jeb Bush to investigate the case? Michael.

If he's such a crave bastard why did he do to the extreme lengths he did to CARE for her? operative word being "CARE". CAREing about someone is implicit in many more actions than just demanding that someone be kept alive in order to sate your selfish religious or personal feelings. I'd argue that her parent's do NOT care about her: they care about themselves. They are TOO SELFISH to let her go, a fact born out by their own testimony where they revealed that even if she had expressed a desire to be allowed to die they would not do so for her.

Come on people. This sort of sinster bullshit is spewed from the very politicians and corrupt fundamentalists who brought you "saving" social security and abortion clinic bombing. They just have such big hearts, don't they?

Selfish, self centered, oppurtunistic fucks.

well she's probably about dead by now.

did anybody ever say they want her dead? she's been in this state for how long now? If it weren't for the force feeding and whatnot and the life support they had her on when she first entered the hospital she would be dead anyway... she is obviously not recovering, and personally, if I were in her position I would want to be dead even if I had a daughter in this state for that long I wouldn't want them to be stuck like this forever.
Nobody wants her dead, but does anybody really want to see her living like this either?

btw. feeding her and giving her water was the only thing keeping her alive, a hospital obviously isn't going to poison her, they're just stopping keeping her alive.

It would be against the law to "kill her quick" since they can't pull life support (since she is on none) the only way they are allowed to let her die is by not keeping her alive (feeding her).

dr. kevorkian is gonna roll up and save the day.

I wonder what party they will vote for now, that Jeb "betrayed" them.

I agree. Let her die by helping her die. But that isn't lawful in our nation -- it could be, but some people stand in the way of dignity. So we're stuck with the fucking middle ground of starving her body to death. Horrible.

It'd be cool if you could choose the way you die.  I'd do something creative like be thrown into a river of lava, or die of a heroin overdose or something.

she will not STARVE to death, she will dehydrate..apparently it's not so uncomfortable...i agree that if she's gonna die they should just morphine her to death, but it's fucking stupid how you people blow it out of proportion saying wwaaa she's starving to death feed her she's so hungy and thirsty.

i was just watching some old doctor dude on tv talking about how he does this ALL THE TIME, yet all of a sudden it's being blown out of proportion. all sources point to her being brain dead, particularly the fact that there is NO electrical activity in her brain. so yes, terry schiavo should and will die, and all attempts to overturn these laws will be shot down because the people trying to change them don't have the scientific or medical knowledge to know how this works, which is why they're out there in the freezing cold.

even if she was allowed to go on being a vegetable, how quickly would these protesters forget about her? pretty quick i'd say, considering she's not gonna pop up and say THANKS FOR SAVING ME GUYS WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE I LOVE BEING ALIVE. no, she's gonna rot away in that bed, probably until her clock runs out naturally.

Got me on that one. Checked it out. Yep, death by dehydration.

Everything else you say, ditto.

well, she's dead now. any afterthoughts?

I'm just relieved for her, she can finally be at peace.

I wish the husband could be too but he's had so many threats made against him that I worry for his and his family's ability to live a quiet, peaceful life again, some of these Christian radicals are every bit the terrorists that the radical Muslims are.

Anyway, hopefully it is out of the news cycle by the end of the weekend so the news can cover something of true political rather than personal importance. And no, that doesn't mean the Michael Jackson trial.

Yeah, how was she able to last so long, I thought it was 3 minutes without air, 3 days without water and 3 weeks without food.  She lasted two weeks without water.

well, i suspect because she doesn't move at all, so whatever water reserves she has aren't expended so quickly.

It sucks balls. That's what I think.

I also think it's so shitty of the President to say that millions feel her passing a few minutes after she dies but he has shit to say about the ten dead indians murdered by a mad child. Such a hypocrit. Such a cunt of a politician.

i agree that it was completely over exposed and that too many people were all too eager to take sides. i have (partially) restored faith in our judicial system now though...for not taking shit from anyone and doing the right thing.

Terri Schiavo died yesterday, about 2 weeks after they pulled the feeding tube

omg really?

(http://www.mnftiu.cc/mnftiu.cc/images/war.329.gif)

see the rest here

http://www.mnftiu.cc/mnftiu.cc/war45.html

sixhits i love gywo
it always cuts through the bs and says everything the way it should be

btw still banned?

this is a whole new topic... but I agree, it was two days later when he acknowleged the shotting here in minnesota, AND then he proceeds to say nothing more about it.