*DAMN R6 Forum

Hi,

I would like to know how much your gaming behaviour has changed after the introduction of the Fatten your sheep system in the GhR CQB ladder. As you know the bet feature has 2 main purposes for user:

- avoiding the most common excuses to not play a cb, because with your bet you can influence the risk you gonna take
- giving your B-players a chance to play.

Did/could you make use of at least 1 of those features? Did your B-players play more? Did you get more cbs done? If yes, please vote so above.

When you don't see any difference in your or others cb behaviour since the FyS has been introduced this season please use one of the two "no" vote options.

The poll will run 10 days, then everyone can view the results. Further you are allowed to change your vote anytime.

Bye,

Mauti

 ;) Didn't effect us. [:] doesn't have any "B" players  ;)

Brutha will probably say the same thing when I say that it hurts the activity of the ladder.  I think it's quite rediculous that you lose sheep when you lose the CB.

You'll probably say that the Ladder has never been more active but I don't think that's because of the sheep system.

That point is true, if you didn't loose sheep at all people would be far more willing to cb.


nark?

Interesting point of view especially because the sheep aren't the decision maker in the FyS and are there to be used, but ok.

Bye,

Mauti

It comes down to loosing points/sheep/sheep fat. Whatever you want to call it, put simply people would be far more willing if there was nothing to loose and everything to gain.

I think its the reason to why clans say no. Theres a whole load of excuses but only root cause, perhaps.

nark?

The simple fact is this, if there is nothing to be lost from CB'ing, then more CB's would be played. Simple as that. By looking around, by talking to ppl, I know that the sheep system is killing off some fun with CB'ing. So was the former point system. With a ladder as inactive as this, we don't need a system that scares ppl away from cb'ing.

but then we have again another or the same as b4 the sheep system problem...more cb=more points that would suck..

Why would that suck? thats the point, more CB's. Why do you want less cb'ing?

In a system where points are awarded, and not taken away, clans might not be as afraid of playing CB's. Lets say that lower ranked clans gain more by beating higher ranked clans thatn higher against lower, or even higher against higher. that means that the higher ranked clans need to CB because they have to stay ahead.

Niklot is completely right, Brutha. What is the purpose of a ladder? Comparing Skills! Of course there are some ladders that just keep track of what you do.

If you don't lose anything the clan with the most cbs played is the winner(preseason AK 2001). However I have a complete new package for season XI, that gonna stay for a while, will be presented a bit later.

In the FFA ladder you also lose and nevertheless everyone plays. CB activity relies on many factors not just the calculation part. The sheep should have helped to increase the gaming aspect but obviously it unfortunaly didn't for all clans. Some clans like ?, E, :, ViP, Ops, a, just play other clans are stucked thinking about what to do. Well this thread wasn't meant for discussion I just need a feedback for some future work.

A system that works without penalty points is an "absolute" system where everyone plays everyone a few times. You get 3 - 1- 0 points(win - tie - loss). However such a system would require professional organisation from the clans and I think we aren't ready yet for it. However I'm working on project for university where I gonna realize such a system next to a "relavtive" system. The script needs to be tweaked upside down: adding charts to keep track whom you played, who is missing, etc... Last but not least a further problem with such a system is that it was meant for local play not global. Well if it isn't too mixed this could be done.

Enough, please everyone vote so I can take the appropriate measures.

Bye,

Mauti

I like that you lose sheep.

are we solely limiting this duscussion to the CQB ladder..... or are we talking about the team ladder as well?

Well, I am talking about all the ladders..

The poll is solely about the sheep in the CQB ladder.

PS.: I gonna split all posts that have nothing to do with the poll.

Bye,

Mauti

- I couldn't answer that poll unless there was a  "sometimes a hinderance, sometimes beneficial"  option

The Sheep betting ruins some peoples will to cb, I have asked ViP many a time (punisher) to have a cqb and he says "why should we cqb, you will beat us and we will lose sheep"  I think that if the sheep thing is taken out (B players shoulndt be an option in this anywaym its a FUN ladder)  In the cqb ladder.  The real thing that has ruined the cqb ladder is the class thing.  MoD, being a level 4, and someother clan with equal skills but playing less, has a smaller class.  The first place person should automatically be level 5 though, so that  the first place spot is a show of skills, not whoever cqbs the most, which is what it shows now.

wow, vip clan said that?

I dont think there is much anything wrong with the CQB ladder.  Sounds more like something is wrong with that clan's sportsmanship.

I dont care about the CQB ladder.  I think our clan only uses it when we dont have anyone on to CB.  It's a FUN ladder and we use it as such.

And how would a ladder set up to not loose sheep change this?you would still have the skilled clans who like to cb alot at the top.. and smaller clans who would normaly be afraid to cb those clans (b/c they might not think they are skilled enough when they actuly might be)might be more willing to test the waters and cb the top ranking clans.
Lets say.. a new clan forms of some fairly unknow players..... now they might be a realy good team playing together. But b/c they see a clan who has been around for a long time.. and won the last season or is high ranking in the current season. they might be afraid to cb them.. so they play alot of not soo good playing clans.. b/c they  are afaid of loosing those sheep they have already won. Now.. If they could cb a top ranking clan...... with no risk of loosing these sheep they have already won.. they might do it.. and show how skilled they realy are when they beat that higher ranking clan.

I hear you on this one Harv.  Really I do.  I think the only pitfall to not losing my be a scenario like this....

say a certain clan is on all the time and manages to cb 50 times in a season.... they lose 30 and win 20.  Let's assume they end the season with 300 sheep (100 originally and 200 for win the 20 cbs for 10sheep ea.)  What if another clan played only 25 cbs in the season and won 18 and lost only 7..... and lets just for the sake complicating this scenario that the first clan decided to only play 'lower tier' clans.  How would it be equitable to compare these clans?  I mean, one clan had a far better winning percentage but lost because they the other clan simply had more in sheer volume of cbs.

Perhaps that leads to my biggest complaint about the system.... strength of schedule.  It's simply not equitable.  How can you get 24 sheep from  a clan from a 'noob' clan and I get 10 from the top clan and have that be fair?

It's like college football, I guess.  How can a win over USC count the same the same as a win over Saint Mary's Girls college?  In this case on the DBL it's even worse.... because you got even more from beating a noob clan than i got from beating an obviously tougher team.


I'm hoping Mauti will tell me that the FyS system accounts for this inequity.  The problem with the ladder- even though i like it and think it is partially successful- is that it is fundementally flawed in how it measures success.




EDIT:  I Meant to put this in the other discussion about the ladder that is going on

BTW.. St Mary's is no longer an all girl college.. Its like 40 mins away from here.. and they now let guys in there too .. but anyway


Yes you are right.. IMHO.. I feel that the BTL lad a realy good point/ladder system. I cant remeber all the details of it.. but i remember that it did work out realy well.... If you cbed a clan ranked nearyou.. and beat them.. most of the time you took there spot on the ladder.. and they got bumped down a place. If you cb's a clan that was a few places away rom you.. you got moved half way up the ladder from where you were compaired towhere they were (its all how the points worked out) If you lost you might loose a place or two.. and if you didnt cb within a certain amount of time (i think it was atleast one cb per week) you lost places.. and if you didnt cb in over 2 week or so.. you were placed as inactive on the ladder.. and you could chalenge the other clnas through the ladder web site.. if they accpted but didnt show up.... they auto lost the cb (the web site kept track of that).

I just think that the curent system ( like i stated when we deside to impliment it while i was an admin) would have the same probs as the old system...

rgr that harv.  thanks for replying to my post in a positive manner.


short of being able to set a schedule and keep it-- which is IMPOSSIBLE-- the league is pretty good.  Yes, we all bitch and moan about it, but for the most part it works out well.  In a fundemental way of speaking- it works.  You win and you go up.... you lose and you go down.

Mauti:  Is there something that might be done to even out the strength of schedule?  I think that is a large hurdle that I haven't heard many others mention.  The wins and the credit given to them is simply not equitable at this point.  No way you should be able to move up the ladder so much simple because you convinced a 'lower tier' clan to bet 24 sheep while other clans beat 'top tier' clans and only net minimal gains.

The argument agianst my appeal might be that it's up to each clan to wager what they will.  True.  But how does that really give as fair and equitable system?  Furthermore, how does that give us a true ladder that really measure the qulaity of teams?

Another 2¢....... I really like the idea of losing points for not cb'ing.... perhaps you would also gain points FOR cb'ing..... how about if you dont cb in a week you lose a few sheep, but if you battle 3 times or more in a week you gain a few sheep... something like that.


Thanks for those guys who have given me some good feedback on this issue on GR, but please voice your opinions on here.  It's the only way to let Mauti and the other admins know what the general gaming publin wants.

weak.. if i remember corectly.. you do gain extra sheep for cbing... i think its after every 3rd or 4th cb you get 2 extra sheep

Alright, before I gonna respond on all replies: I'll write a full report for some season XI changes to the system and further present a possible additional sports-like ladder.

More soon at the *DBL forum.


Bye,

Mauti

It's every 4th cb you get 2 extra sheep.