*DAMN R6 Forum

Alright this will be the first of a few topics were we, the *DBL admin team, present worked out solutions to problems we have experienced in past seasons. This worked out solutions often are built up on the input you gave us in this forum. We took your wishes, looked what other solutions could be possible, thought about the consequences it could have, set the solution in context with other rules, etc. Now we need your feedback so we can decide the final decision for season X.

I want to start with the sheep bet system:

I didn't add any sheep bet limits at the start of season 9, because I wanted to keep the new system as simple as possible, and hoped that sportmenship will make it unnecessary to add any limits, well time has shown that a kind of limitation will be required for season X, because as we have seen in season 9 if a clans loses their motivation they may give away all their sheep for free in a cb were they will lose.

I personally think percentage limits are stupid because you always have to do math and think how many sheep you can bet. As a consequence we first broke down the reasons into small pieces to get the reasons why clans would give away all their sheep for free:

1.) lack of motivation, because they aren't really interested in ladder playing, they registered once but now they don't care anymore. They have never invested much time into playing just 3 - 4 cbs but they never felt really involved. So such clans can be easy persuaded to bet all their sheep in one cb.

2.) Cheating the system - a clan was found for the only reason to give away many sheep for free

3.) In the very last second of the season were you want to persuade another clan to a "all or nothing" cb.

Alright this are the main reasons why a clan would do an unreasonable sheep bet so here is our 3 step solution so far:

1.) To get clans "into" the ladder, to get them to a point were they feel they have already so much time invested that they don't give up that easily, we would add a sheep bet limit to all clans for the first 8 cbs! This sheep bet limit would be 20 sheep per max you can offer for your first 8 cbs. Because we came to the conclusion that when a clan has already done 8cbs at a ladder, they already know what to do and how to do it. They have lost their noob status, so they can't be persuaded that easily to offer all their sheep at their first cb already. Further you played already that much, why should you give up now?

2.) With the above rule addition the risk of a fake clan that gets you easily many sheep is limited. Now you have to invest much more time if you really want to take the risk of creating a fake clan.

3.) You all know the chaos in the last week of the season. Tons of cbs get played to still gather a place in the finals. To calm down people and focus more on the main season we would like to add a sheep bet limit for the last week, where each clan can only bet 20 sheep. This means you have to risk already more in the main season, and further the risk that in the very last second a clan offers all their sheep in 1 cb is eliminated.

The 3rd step of our solution would include an overall sheep bet limit of 50 sheep per bet you can offer after you have played 8 cbs. This limit has been chosen because the highest bets that have been bet more than once were between 40 and 50. So we think this is a reasonable limit, even if you want to risk very much, or lure other clans with many sheep to cb you.

So in the end it will be a simple 8cb 20 - 50 - 20 sheep bet limit.

Alright please leave your comments. If you agree if you would change something, if you have another great idea that you thing is easier to understand and to follow, let us know!

I gonna start now the next topic about the limit how often you can cb a clan per season in the team ladders.

Bye,

Mauti

I might have missed it, but did you adress the amount of times a clan can play another clan?

This isn't going to help...after 8 cb's, then you can bet 50, which queer clans will do. After 8 cb's is when most of the teams lose motivation anyways....if you do this you will also probably set a limit on how many cb's we can have against each individual clan, which isnt cool either.  Mauti you say you dont want to complicate things by adding a simple limit...Well, you are adding different limits at 3 different times of the season....thats a hell of a lot more complicated.  If you set the sheep limit for the entire season (20 is pushing it), then clans will be encouraged to play more to get more points.  Can the DBL Admins not just ask all of the clan leaders of the dbl for the opinions of their clan and do it that way?  i guarantee you that you'll have a different, better solution.

Dark look at my last sentence  ;)

Twist at all it is a simple 8cbs 20 - 50 - 20 limit. So not that complicated at all.

The reason why we didn't 1 limit is simple: one idea of the sheep system is that you can lure other clans by offering much more sheep because you think you will win anyway. If you offer only 20 like anyone can, they may won't accept, but up to 50 sounds good to persuade a clan to take the risk and play.

If you observe the results of season 9 - you will see that often clans bet extremly much in their first cbs because they didn't have a feeling for the value of 1 sheep. So I think this will help a lot to get the clans used to it before doing some big bets.

Bye,

Mauti

Thanks Mauti, And I do think that 50 may be about 10 - 20 too many, 30 -40 would be a much better range, In my personal opinioin (I like the way you have done it Mauti) I think that 35 might be a better mid season number rather than 50 (realise I am compromising I would rather have 20 all season, but I do like the remaking a max at the end of the season) I personally think that 30 would be the most that should be bet, but I do think that compromise is the way the world works so 35  ;D

um, well if you look at season 9, you will notice that every cb that is between actual good clans, the sheep bet ranges from about 5-15.  People arent going to use that 50 sheep to 'lure' clans into winning, all you are going to do is have the same problem as last season.  You're just delaying it 8 cb's.

I would support this rule in all but one point, it should be after 5 cbs not 8. The main problem with a bet limit is that it would be hard to persuade clans using uneven bets to the max.

Twist, often you use the more sheep to lure worse clans not even clans, because they afraid to battle you and this helps you. Good vs Good clans, when both think the chance will be 50 - 50 they often more cautious and bet only an average number. So far my point let's listen what the other think about the 8cbs - 20 - 50 - 20 limit.

Myst, may I'm right that you would like to see a lower starter limit looking at the overall activity in RvS?

Bye,

Mauti

Well, obviously it isnt up to me.  But there are clans out there that love cbing each other, because its more of a challenge. If you decide to go w/ this solution, can we compromise and maybe have it set at 10 cb's per season?  Only giving 2 more isnt going to help all that much, and like i said, we don't only cb on the weekends.

Mauti, here's a real solution.

Number limits are going to be very hard to agree upon, so why not have a limit on the number of times greater a number could be, so like a 2x limit:

ex.  Clan 1 bets 10 sheep
   so Clan 2 can convince them into it by betting 20

Perhaps use this after the newb cb trial period (5cbs - 8cbs) and a 20-30 sheep limit pre-trial. This may solve some problems and still allow heavy competition. As you saw near the end of the season (in a relatively slow one) there were a lot of clans well over 100 and larger number CBs between those adds a element of competition that a cap could take away. The mere fact that 50 is a cap may make clans taboo the though of betting near it.

Here is the problem that we had a few 1 - 10 sheep bets were this wouldn't work. So I went away from any relative solutions because they work for example for high bets but not for lower bets...

At all I just want to wait to hear more opinions so I get a better overview what other persons think.

I get back to you tomorrow. I'm going to bed now.

Bye,

Mauti

ok betting 50 sheep at the end to get into the finals is crap..the teams that play all season, and are at the top should be in the finals.  Its like any other sport...the teams that do the best throughout the season goes into the playoffs.  Trying to bet 50 towards the end to get into the finals is lame.

You should give up now for one simple reason - because if you are a 'noob' clan, you won't win those 8 cbs, and you'll probably have given up for that reason alone.  You don't give up noob status by playing 8 cbs.. you give up noob status by winning 8 cbs.  Don't we all know that the clans who give up all their sheep are ones who never win??

That said, this whole system is making it work so that less challenging CBs are worth more than more challenging CBs!!.  IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE!!!

Let me clarify.  The two best clans in the league are not going to bet a lot of sheep vs eachother, simply because it's too risky.  In the case of the best clan vs. the worst clan, there is going to be a higher sheep bet.  It makes absolutely no sense that Leet clan should should get more points for beating Noob clan than for beating Other Leet clan.

This is just how things work people, you aren't going to change fundamental human behavior by setting a few restrictions that were thought up in an hour... you need to change the system to get rid of the problem alltogether.

Gabe, you're making generalizations. I've see many terrible clans in low sheep CBs, yet top # CBs sometimes involved top clans. I don't see what you mean by clans loosing their will 8 CBs into a season. This is a ladder that goes on 60 days, if you can't do 8 CBs in that time you shouldn't be near the finals.

waoooo again i'm lost!! why does it have to be so complicate!!!

is there no rules in this world that we could aply  to us without having to invent so many new!!

anyway we will do what u all say but plz make it simple !!!

What I'm really trying to say is, the betting system may have fixed the problem of motivation to cb, but it has screwed up the rest of the league in the process.  There needs to be either very little variation between bet amounts, or a fixed point system (for example, 10 sheep for every cb, no matter what time of season or which clans its between).

10 sheep is ridiculous! If you don't want a competitive ladder go play mock CBs on GR. There are bet limits at casinos, but not ones that damage your ability to go anywhere!

not true, Twist... [01] had some sheep bets of 20, actualy a few of em in the cqb ladder where they finished in 2nd.

As for the system, I think it was a great idea that appeals to many sides of this matter

Ein

well you see mysterio... i like a competitive ladder, as long as it works.  I liked the old point system with that more complex algorithm, but the sheep thing sucks dick.  Fake clans to give you more sheep, insane sheep bets, etc.  Changing the limits at the beginning of the season isnt going to change jack shit.  A set # might not either, but all I know is that what we have now it complete crap.  Hey.. i mean if you're one of those people who likes to take advantage of noob clans and win the ladder by going 50 and 0 in all 5-0 cb's, it might be fun for you.  But it sure sounds like a waste of time to me.  There is absolutely no incentive for clans to play other good clans.

and btw myst, the number 10 was just an example.  In addition, I don't think you're grasping the fact that it makes absolutely no difference whatsoever, as long as everyone is betting in the same range.  10 sheep could be a lot if you want it to be.  Hey man.. make it 10000 for all I care, All I was suggesting is that everyone bets the same number, but after thinking about it a little more I think we need something totally different.

Not to troll but, Macclans (when set up soon) uses a point system and doesn't have a CB # limit.... back on topic, the sheep system is good and has a few flaws to fix. The way you say things you'd think there were 100 fakes clans cbing last season.

Myst, don't be a jackass.  The point is not that there was only 1 clan who cheated last year, the point is that it is POSSIBLE, under this system, to cheat in that way.. and it needs to be fixed.

Why not just deal with the cheaters with appropriate bans.

I think everything is JUST fine as it is....  ::lol::



Personally, my clan rarely bet anything over 15 sheep, so I guess it's really up to each clan to decide what they want to bet....

... 'noob' clans are a plague, unless we start to somehow make it much tougher to start a clan (im NOT advocating this) then 'noob' clans and possible dummy clan are here to stay.

Why penalize the rest of the communtiy for it?  I think as long as we up the amount of times you can cb a clan to 10, we should be ok.

weak is right though. The betting limit won't change anything except damage the competitive clans. If people are gonna cheat the system with fake clans 8x10 is still 80 sheep. Also consider that noob clans can still loose a lot with 10 sheep bets. You want to deal with it you can switch back to point system, but the sheep is fun for the 99% of people who use it right.

no......limiting sheep bets will not damage the competitive clans...and i dont believe weak said that either.    it doesnt have to be a set limit of 10 sheep...if it was where a clan can wager anywhere from 1-10 sheep, then the noob clans wouldnt have to wager 10 sheep if they were getting low on points.  The season doesnt have to get up to 1000 plus sheep for it to be good.  the scores would be lower, so 1 or 2 teams cant jump way out in a lead by 500 + points.  The season would be much closer, therefore, easier for other clans to have a chance in the finals.  Yet another good point in why my solution will work.

Really though Twist....wasn't there only one clan that really went out of their way and made up a fake clan and took all their sheep??

This league is pretty good at weeding out 14 year old cheaters and they are dealt with promptly.

I see your point in wanting to limit cb bet amounts but I think you're giving yourself a headache over nothing.  When looking at the list when the season was "called" I thought it reflected well who were the most successful clans over the duration of regular season cbs.

Going too low could make things kind of "uninteresting"  ......After thinking about it I would want 20 to be the absolute LOWEST limit that can be made.

Or...Mauti and the admins solution sounds fine to me.

50 is the lowest you can go if you want to do uneven bets that can make CBs where there wouldn't usually be CBs.

I think the idea is that if a fake clan has to go through all the trouble of faking 8 or more cbs, than its not worth their time. In other words, they might as well spend all that time actually trying to win.

2 words:

"Auto" "Fill"

"Auto Fill" is killed by the 2 in a row rule,  The fake clan would actually have to cb a real clan that they are not giving their free points to, besides as said before, this community is so small that we all know each other.  And to you guys bashing noob clans, didnt we all start somewhere?  I mean cmon, I hate seeing a noob clan formed just to lose as much as the next guy, but I feel sorry for the fella's.  What these "noob clans" need is a way to get better, and sadly it is to lose to the "Leet" clans until they get good enough to call themselves "leet".  The problem with *DAMN is that all the clans in it who call themselves "Leet" are so arogant and laugh at "the wee lil' noobs trying to make a name for themselves"  What we need to do is let the buggers play and get used to how to cb.  Lets try to support these "noob clans" so that this league will expand.  In my short 4 (or five) season time here I have seen so many noob clans come and go, but to tell you the truth some of the good players came from these "noob clans" Shade was in Skips UW, and not trying to step on former UW clan members toes, but UW sucked ass.  But look at shade now, he is the second best player in mod and one of the top 25 ghr players today.  But alas had all the "Leet" clans back then had the same attitude as they do now, then shade would be just another fly on the wall that had horrible cb experiences and horrible experiences in general with CBing at DAMN.  Another example, Bonfire:  he came from Gz, I doubt many of you remember this clan but it was there and they werent half bad (better than UW) but alas like all noob clans eventually do, it disbanded and its members joined other clans.  Its best member (who mind you was a noob when he joined Gz) then joined cO and in my opinion is their second best player.  I myself was in Gz and other so called "noob clans" (I actually started DFA btw, yes the one that got banned but we blame sar for recruiting him, and I no longer led DFA at the time) But I joined other noob clans after getting the X from GM.  I ended up joining Gz and was in some RVT for a short amount of time.  I finally got good enough to join a "leet clan" of co, then we had our mis-givings and I joined mod, and Ive been there for almost 8 months now (wow that seems like a while)  What I am getting at from my rambling is that good players come from noob clans and I wish that everyone would stop bashing them and give them a chance.  Yes most of these "noob" clans are formed by pre-teens, but we were all that age once, and Im sure we all know that we werent STUPID enough to just give away all of our sheep, and I know that if the good players from "Leet" clans tricked us into giving up all our sheep, then we would have been heartbroken and probly left GR for good, but alas the clans of old were not jackass' to noobs but were helpful and friendly. (and courteous kind obedien....inside joke tell me who gets it)  Anyway Im sorry for this long almost irrelevant paragraph.

Now on to the matter at hand:
Everyone and their dog seems to be bitching about the system (does anyone think to remember that minus a few drawbacks that the system worked quite well last season)  Having a limit on the number of cb's played is good, its called diversity, we all need it.  8 or 10 who cares, as long as we are having fun with a little competition with it.  If your clan is mean enough to take 50 points from a "noob clan" then good for you I hope it stays on your conscience that you might have ruined good players who might be on your squad in 4 months.  But Mauti has thought this through, he gave good reasons for having 20-50-20, I sure dont want to have a 50 sheep lead on the 9th place team and then have them post a 51 point cb minutes before the deadline while I was sleeping!.  The 20 point lead gives teams the assurance that they will not be swindled out of their finals position the night or two nights before the end of the season.  Betting on big games is one of the risks that make this system worth it,  What is life without risks, say mod v co and both of the teams have enough sheep to bet on a 40 sheep game and stayin the finals,  well then its worth the risk for the fun and honor of winning a 40 sheep game.  And if a noob clan WANTS to try to make finals and battle another clan, then props to them, WHO WOULDNT?  None of you can tell me that if you were within 50 points of being in the top 8 and it being your first season would you not try to make the finals?  Even if it meant playing another noob clan that you hope you can beat?  So all in all I think that the 20-50-20 system works quite well and I hope that I am posting this in the right topinc, otherwise 8 sounds good to me for max clan v clan cbs.



Long Windedly yours,
DarK.

P.S. this is 960 (so says apple works) words minus the PS  (Ive written shorter papers for my college classes lol)

LOL.... no wonder your probably failing...
j/k

All in fun Ein.

PS- I am tired of writing the same things in the cb limit thread and the sheep thread. So to sum up, Lets try what admins suggested, see how it works in Season X and change it for Season XI if it doesnt work

I don't see what noob or "leet" clans have to do with this. You make the assumption lots of clans take advantage of noob clans. I don't play on the GhR ladder so I can't comment on your experience.

P.S. Any chance I can convince you to use smaller paragraphs next time? It's hard to follow on these fixed size boards.

Sure Myst I will try, I thought that I needed to break it up as well.

Not sure if anybody has said this yet because I got bored after reading the first reply but what about reverting to our old system?...what was wrong with that anyway?

I mean, look at us here talking about fuckin sheep...we look like a bunch of farmers.  The point system was fine as far as I could see.  Mysterio stated that the Macclans ladder uses the ELO system which looked logical to me.  I've encountered many problems when trying to come to a conclusion over how many sheep to bet.

The advantage of the old point system was that if your clan wanted to get back on top you were forced to play all of the better clans which was not only challenging but more exciting when you won.  With the sheep system you could simply play some noob clan a bunch of times and be right back on top and I realize that's what these two topics are trying to stop.  Another thing is that when you were on top of the ladder it was very hard to stay there because you were not able to gain many points from a win.

Just My Opinion.

I still like the gambling nature of the bet system.

Like the gambing system better myself, as well :P

Ein

Shade the main reason why I invented the sheep system is that:

a.) it allows you to let your B players cb, because you can just bet less sheep
b.) it was introduced because we noticed during 8 seasons that clans started to think more about the points than actually gaming. The sheep system is very clear and simple. You get the bet offers from others. There is no thinking about, damn how many points would I lose if I play against clan X.
c.) you are your own farmer and can decide how fast to go up AND down.

Your are right that it also allows clans to make it into the finals, that wouldn't have made it before, but that's the reason why we have finals. There alone your skills decide about win or loss.

Bye,

Mauti

you guys like the gambling system better because its the easy way out to get up top....earn your way up to the top, and if you want points...cb the good clans, instead of cbing a noob clan for a shit ton of sheep

I don't recall any clans CBing noob clans for a ton of sheep, besides iP defeating supposedly fake clans for 100.

I'm not saying that other clans did this, but the gambling system is giving the option of doing that. The point system obviously doesnt have that option.

Obviously, you forget the troubles of DAMNs point system and underhanded tactics here.

The sheep system brings back the fun, and is more fair, if you want to get into the finals you dont just cb the good clans, you cb everyone for their lil' sheeplings.  And you let your B players cb for 1 sheep, just to get that little experience, every bit counts.

Yes I realize that's what it was intended to do but I've had more problems trying to come to a conclusion with the other clan over the amount of sheep.


This was another intention of the Sheep system which I don't think is working.  The problem is that no clan want's to cb for 1 sheep because it is a complete waste of time.

Unfortunately point B of the sheep system doesn't work in our case, but it is fun when people don't abuse it.

The Reason this isnt working is because leaders of the clans are selfish and dont want to let their B players play a cb, A B player doesnt care about the sheep as much as they would like to gain the confidence.

Which is perhaps where you come back to the issue over cb limits as we're discussing - increasing the cb limits would mean that the outcome of each battle was less significant

So you want the DBL to become all for fun over some competition?

How about clans only being able to gamble 1/3 of their sheep? (fraction of course negotiable)

I do like that idea, but in the start of the season that will only be 33 sheep, and when they are down to their last 20 that could be a problem.

The fraction system would probably best work if the starting points was upped a bit and besides the max would be 1/3 (or whatever fraction chosen).

Or an even simpler system which may please some and make others cringe. This system works great for 1v1 ladders and might even work for clans:

When you beat a person ranked higher than you, you will move up the ladder half the distance between your current position and the current position of the player you beat.  Example:  #100 beats #50. #100 will now be ranked #75, since half the distance between 50 and 100 is 75. If half the distance between you and your opponent is a .5 decimal (ie 72.5) your rank is rounded down. Example:  #101 beats #50. #101 will now be ranked #75, since half the distance between 50 and 100 is 75.5 and we round down to 75. When someone moves up the ladder in either of these fashions, everyone between his new and old position on the ladder will all move down one rung.  So in our first example, the ranks 75 - 99 would move down one rung to make room for him at the #75 position.

I would say we should have a more adaptable rule, with say the rule voiding itself when a clan is down to below 30 sheep. Guys, don't say that's complicated, pretty easy.

I've been away for awhile...a long while. But one thing hasn't changed...the constant discussion over the point system. Why can it not just be 3 points for a win 0 for a loss. You don't loose points for loosing cos that forces smaller clans to not face bigger clans. And by only managing to gain 3 points it would mean that a more competitive ladder, no? I mean i can see all the crap that goes with the simple way, like big clans just cbing smaller clans but you should only be able to play one clan...twice. I can understand Mauti and the team trying to bring more fun into the ladder but a ladders point system should be simple.

And to the argument that more active clans will just cb all the smaller clans...you have that same choice. But there are only so many smaller clans and at some point you gotta face the big boys, and by that i'm apalled that smaller clans fear facing bigger clans. Its not the way the community should be. People should be willing to cb anyone no matter what their skill level is. At the end of the day we're here to play the game competitivly and for fun.

Perhaps at teh end of the season for every match you haven't played you get deducted points, some penalty for not playing all teh games...if u register for a ladder you know what your getting in to so there should be no reason for not playing. If your good and inactive it shouldn't mean u can play 10 games have aload of points and sit back for the rest of the season.

You'll introduce a new complicated point system and at the end of the season once again everyone will bitch and moan on how it needs to be improved when at the end of the day it should never have changed. The people that bitch and moan should suck it up and play! If you can't beat the best your hardly a DAMN Ladder winner. I'm not saying smaller clans shouldn't play just that every clan has its day with a regular non changing point system we could actually see who is consistant.

All of this will obviously require no attention from anyone in the GR community, because they all want it there own way. I just want a easily understandable point system in which points are dealt with evenly. Yes that may be my own way but dam its better than betting game points.

I love the work DAMN have done for the community, but i think its high time DAMN took back control of this ladder and left the community to playing on the ladder. By that i mean independant admins, ones not linked to clans, espcially ones that acutually play on the ladders.

But after all is said and done this is just my opinion.

Narauko.

I merged your thread with this one, as they concern the same topic.
-Spike

ty.  ;)

the 3-for-win, (1-for-tie) 0-for-loosing -pt-system will benefit only the active clans. in fact its even worse than the sheep system. this pt-system would only work when you have a schedule for the whole season and as cool as it would be, *damn seems to definately not want to introduce it.
So my vote is with to make the sheep-system alot more complicated with thousands of special rules until its a fair and mature system.

With that, a never ending "improvement" process, further moving away from a solution.


Did you read back over this? What use is a ladder with a lovely new updated point system with 20 inactive clans. I'm sorry but theres no reason not to be active, if theres a problem with activity then may i suggest lengthening the season rather than change the point system. I was only away for just over a year but that was long enough for the season no. to jump from 3 to season 10...one year 7 seasons...who has got the time to be that active except for me  ;D. There are many areas which affect a ladder other than the point system.


Since when did the DAMN ladders allow CBs to finish in a tie? Recent update?


Don't believe i've read DAMNs comments on a schedule, but i can say one thing clans generally manage to cb how many times a week 2-3 times. 10 active clans minimum cb requirement say 1 cb a week. Minimum requirement goes a long way instead of a schedule, then its down to the clans to sort there activity out. Not hard to play 20 cbs in 8 weeks. Avg. 2 cbs a week. Thats not want DAMN want? Unsure on the length of a season (been away) but surely if you feel 8 weeks too daunting then maybe 12 weeks, can we manage one cb a week?


If you posted this in all honesty then i have no further comment, it speaks for itself.

Narauko.

i agree with logic.

I give up.  ::)

Narauko.

It's ok, some people will never listen to a strong argument... welcome back to DAMN.

Just a friendly question...Mysterio...do you have a job or something similar?

Currently I have no need for one.

Believe me...u do.

Thnx Myst, I'm glad someone can see there is a strong agruement in there. And aren't simply looking out for their own interests instead of the communitys.

Narauko.

Don't let yourself get drawn into a argument form or they will just say your posts are not constructive and are simply negative.

Nark, a simple 3 - 1 - 0 setup only works with a sheduled ladder otherwise only the mass of cbs you play decides. Further this topic went a bit offtopic. It was never a discussion about the point system itself, it was brought up to prevent the 1, 2 clans per season that try to cheat. If these guys and gals wouldn't excist the rules would be much slimer and the sheep system wouldn't need any additional rules.

So you see we have to adapt to the behaviour of only a few clans, but it affects the complete community. If we don't and say just don't play them, people will scream for additional rules. It's a vicious circle where you can't win as long as there are these clans, and if we ban them, new one will come.

However back to the 3 - 1 - 0 setup. May if there is an interest we can introduce an additional sheduled ladder where everyone plays everyone next season. Where we have 1 big gaming day especially for this season.

bye,

Mauti

Funny how we keep coming back to the same solution for the same problems every season.

Indeed I feel like a robot, explaining each year that such a system would only work in a complete sheduled ladder...

I thought you were a robot, Mauti.

Ein

Hmm, I know what your saying and understand. Are you sure we can't ban them? I just think if we want to play competivly(sp? Lazy atm) on a ladder then we should look to play like it was Professional sport. Maybe 10 years down the line online games will have sponsership deals etc I know on the old clanbase UT ladder cash prizes were given out to the winners (no u didnt have to pay anything) up to the sum of £30,000 to be shared amoungst the clan.

I didn't want a schedule as such more of a time limit to play a single game, doesn't matter on the opponent. If what i read the other day is true and the season runs over 10 weeks then perhaps a minimum of 2 cbs a week. If everyone is aware then everyone will surely be more active and the cbs will take place, the increase may even put added pressure on you guys which is a bad point and i should shut up.

Oh, Mauti how about a euro ladder? I know it would be small, perhaps a euro tourney instead. Run a US one aswell then winners go head to head. Just another random thought poping up.


Added thought, If there trying cheating as you say shouldn't they be banned/warned anyway? Pretty thin line with trying and cheating both as suspicious as the other.

Narauko.

Hi,

tonight we had a *DBL admin meeting and Aramarth came up with a more simple rule addition, we may should consider before introducing our previous accepted concept of 8 cbs 20 - 50 - 20 sheep bet limit.

Ara suggested that we should make the sheep bet depending on the number of players:

meaning the sheep bet limit depends on the number of players. e.g. you play a 2vs2 you can bet 20sheep at max, 3vs3 max 30 sheep, 5vs5 50sheep,.... you get the idea. The side effect of this rule would be that cbs with more players get more awarded beside the advantage that you only have to remember a number.

For Ghost Recon we suggest a mulitplier of 10 and for Raven Shield 15.

What do you think. Would you prefer this addition instead of our previous 8cbs 20 - 50 - 20 suggestion?

Please let us know asap.

Good night,

Mauti

The scalar is negotiable. I suppose my original value was a 5. That would work as follows:

3v3: 3*5 =  15 sheep maximum bet
4v4...         20
9v9...         45

The common opinion was that 5 is a bit too small a multiplier.

In addition, the final week limit (as in the 20-50-20 idea) could be in place simultaneously. That way, the final week of battles would be less likely to turn the ladder upside-down.

The hope is that the sheep bet scalar could be part of the script. The page shouldn't even allow a value less than one or larger than players*scalar.

More freedom to bet, ability to bet a ton without risk eliminated. Give it some thought, post your opinions!

Ara

I never saw it coming...it will be as close to perfect for me.  ;D

OMG, do my eyes hurt after reading all these replys. only took an hour to read...(goes to doctor to get eyes checked). anyway, i am new at this whole cb for sheep thing. after all...this will be the first season that i will actually cb in im hoping. and as far as a point system, i would have to agree with Ara about having 3v3 4v4 for 5 or 10 times the amount of players on a team. whatever it may be. seems easier to understand from a noob's point of veiw. and by that, u would have to be more active in cbing to get to the top. seems fair enough for me.

- No spamming in here please dark  :BFG:-

^^^^^
off-topic: who did what now?

On topic, 5 is far too low. Usually RvS CBs are only 2vs2.

Yup myst. Mauti's post recommends 15 for rvs.

It's hard to say, 15 may cause problems, a 10x multiplier would be the simplest. I don't think I've been in a 30 sheep 2vs2 before.

BFG please remind me of what I said that was off topic...

although this is off-topic again... you said something about parents of somebody and that they pay everything for this somebody. no clue who it was directed at.

So, what is going on in the admins minds right now? There's been a lot of discussion since mauti's last state of the issue post.

People are.. yknow, in their work-weeks. Classes, jobs, a bit of chasing women for the european admins... j/k

We are actually discussing it. ;) The 'scalar' value is being debated.

...and you deleted my spam warning.

errr, re-check that.

I meant dark did, not you civic.

spike I never deleted a spam warning.....  BFG would have done that, he edited my post not me  Anywya to the relevant stuff.


I like this idea, it makes people play good 4v4 and 5v5 games to get the bid up there, I dont think that more than 25 sheep should be bet anyway so this is a good idea for putting a max bet on el sheeplings.


 This below is reguarding spikes next post

Yeah spike, I wasnt sure about me doing that, seeing as I was gone for a few days since I posted that (I think)so np I will stay on topic from now on.

I know, I was mistaken Dark, sorry bout that.

3 days left? Any progress? Damn all you for not letting them delay it more...now there could be bugs if they are rushing!

Hmmm I thought I posted here, obviously not:

8 for Ghost Recon and 10 for Raven Shield -and a 20 sheep bet limit for the last week of the season

For the CQB ladder the old suggestion 8cbs 20 - 50 - 20 will apply because  there the player number is set.

Bye,

Mauti

So it's a multiplier system for the competition ladders?

Yes since it seems that the majority prefers this system, because it is easier to remember it will be mandatory for all ladders where you can play with a variable number of players and use sheep, of course.

So right now all ladders except the FFA, and the GhR CQB ladders will use it.

Bye,

Mauti

Now it can be up to the variable number, but can be less?

what happened to the seige ladder?

Of course Myst, what question. That's the idea of the sheep system, isn't it. You can bet just 1 sheep and go up until you reach the limit.

Bye,

Mauti

 ::)

 :-X

The siege ladder was killed for season X, due to less activity.

Bye,

Mauti

oh darn, I liked seige.