*DAMN R6 Forum

     I doubt I've spoken with many of you regarding my opinions on the American education system. All my life, I've felt a bone-deep discontentment with and loathing towards the institution of public schooling. Suffice it to say, reading this book is a breath of fresh air -- no, that's wrong. It's like taking a deep breath for the first time ever. The full text of the book is available here (http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/underground/index.htm).

     Edit: I'm now a third of the way through the first chapter, and I am reminded strongly of the science-fiction novel by James P. Hogan, "Voyage From Yesteryear". It's an Utopian novel with an unusual aspect--unlike most Utopian visions, Hogan illustrates how his came to be: the primary education of the children who became the society was by the use of the question, "what do you think?"

As I can't actually read the book, mind if we turn this into a discussion of education reform issues? I personally went to a "good" public school, but as far as I'm concerned, after Elementary, I could have taught myself better than the school did. It just is so inept at dealing with differing learning styles. As such, I am a supporter of allowing school choice and the expansion of the charter school system where you can go with more ecclectic curriculum and instruction method.

However, I am greatly distraught with the manner in which the current school choice advocates are proceeding. I think the main push from the far right has bad intentions. I think it is more about religion and privatization than actually helping students learn.

I would go on but I have my thoughts on the subject more coherently written in my blog. (http://bondurant.blogspot.com/2004/08/right-idea-wrong-reason.html)

     Define "can't". The book is on a completely different page (no pun intended) than the argumentative tack you're taking. If nothing else, read the prologue and first chapter.

My definition of can't is that I couldn't find the link to the text...initially. Oops, now I look silly.

Ok, skimmed the Prologue...I think I'll try to find a copy of the book (at library or cheap, I'm stingy like that) and read it in more detail...don't like reading online. I do think there are a lot of ideas he states that I agree with. One thing I get frustrated about is how we've started demanding certain degrees rather than certain knowledge as requirement for various positions. It's as if people forgot that learning is possible outside of a school setting. However, this author seems to be pushing towards the end of the public school system completely. This is an extreme that I'm not willing to agree with. I think major reforms are needed, but I do think there needs to be some form of educational guidance...especially for those from lower economic areas whose parents are not as free to take that chore upon themselves and are not able to pay for others to offer any real supervisory capacity.

I mean, I came from a upper-middle family so I would have the ability to, instead of going to school, make sure I had a way to get to the library or buy certain aides in my self-learning process. People of lower income, even if they have the mind and desire for a self-guided quest for knowledge (and I believe many of them do and it isn't encouraged currently), they may not have the means to satisfy that quest.

I am actually a first grade teacher Loth, and am interested in hearing a bit more abou the book.  I will be picking it up as early as I can.

As someone who just recently graduated from private school, I can say that I am extremely grateful that my parents made the choice to send me to private school in six grade. I think it opened my mind to so many things which wouldn't have gotton any play in public school, I feel I ended up at the college that I did largly thanks to the good education I received from private school.

     Bondo, before reading from this book, I would have agreed with you that abolishing the public school system would be disastrous. Now, I'm not so sure. One of Gatto's premises in the book is that the system of formal compulsory public education was SPECIFICALLY and KNOWINGLY designed to retard intelligence. I'd go into his line of argument, but he makes the case better than I could repeat it, so get it from the source. : )

thank you for this, loth :) the mode of presentation is reminiscent of "amusing ourselves to death" by neil postman. if you haven't read it, i'd recommend it to you.

     Now that looks veeery interesting, Cookie. I'll have to stop by the used book store tomorrow on the off chance that they might have a copy.

i think you'd like it, i haven't thought about a book so much in aaages. it certainly would run circles around a lot of people.