*DAMN R6 Forum

http://channels.netscape.com/ns/news/story.jsp?id=2004071417480002348749&dt=20040714174800&w=RTR&coview= (http://channels.netscape.com/ns/news/story.jsp?id=2004071417480002348749&dt=20040714174800&w=RTR&coview=)

Almost snuck by me.

"WASHINGTON, July 14 (Reuters) - The U.S. government will likely reach its federal debt limit in early October, a top Treasury official said in written remarks, giving fresh details on when the politically sensitive ceiling will need to be raised."

Wowa.

Here's more.

"Treasury Secretary John Snow has urged Congress to move speedily to raise the limit, in what is likely to be a contentious election-year vote on the country's rising debt. He has asked Congress to act before its August recess.

Democrats blame President George W. Bush's tax cuts for turning the fiscal surplus he inherited into a record deficit, which is expected to top $400 billion this year. The debt limit has already been raised twice during the Bush administration.

...

In a research note on Monday, Crandall had said there was little danger that Treasury would run out of borrowing authority before the election, adding it wouldn't need to invoke extraordinary measures until December.

Do I need to add comment?

You know, it really sounds like the United States is going under. All this wealth, power, and corruption is making America hollow. If things start going like it is now, America will soon be nothing than a paper tiger.

It's kind of sad, really...since it was almost a purposeful attempt to take this country down, planned and executed by its own administration...

Hrm. Now just how do they plan to work off that deficit.

well, California is already bankrupt.

btw,

http://costofwar.com/

IT is a real shame though. The next issue is how to bring America out of debt. Not bring a new war to a new country.

How about we stop spending? Theres a very simple solution - reduce budgets, cut funding, and eliminate the money pits of the federal government. Cut the budget to the UN (they hate us anyway). Cut the spending on medicare, welfare, and other social programs (people have been poor for 40 years, and these programs do nothing - people are still poor today). Cut the Department of Commerce, FDA, etc - If the Underwriters Laboratories are good enough for my VCR - I'm sure other organizations can be created that can PRIVATELY test food - who says the FDA knows what they're doing anyway - they said that prune growers aren't allowed to call their product "dried plums" even though prunes are - gasp - dried plums. Cut the Dept. of Health and Human Services, cut the Department of Education.
None of these things provide services that a free market couldn't provide better and cheaper.

You know your problems would be solved by stopping wars and raising taxes.

P.S. By Stopping wars I mean not starting them.

Man, FUCK RAISING TAXES!!!  Why should the government get the money that I earn???  I earned it, NOT THEM.  Look people, I have lived poor, and I have lived rich.  But I never changed my views between those two times.  I believed that the government shouldn't take from the rich when I was poor, just to give it to me.  I believed that you make your own way....you sure as hell don't wait around for the government to give it to you.  And I did.  I went from being raised very poor on a farm in Oklahoma, to being a servant to the American people in the U.S. Military, to struggling to feed my family and provide for them when I became a civilian in 1998, to where I am today.  I give thousands of dollars a year to charities, to my church, to organizations that I believe in, to the political leaders that I believe in, and sometimes even to some of you through my quizes.  I want for nothing.  If I want something, I have the money to buy it.  But I have always held true to my beliefs through it all.  And foremost on top of it all is this: over-taxing the rich just because they are rich is just plain wrong.[/size]

GS, what's more important to you:

Your money?

     -or-

You're countries welfare?

See, you don't understand because your eyes have been blinded by SOCIALISM.  Someday you might learn that everything runs better under a Free Market System.  Schools, Hospitals, regulatory agencies....they all run better and more efficiently when private enterprise is allowed to run them.  You socialist-minded people (read Canada and Europe) want the government to run everything....you think that you just can't live without the government running every part of your life.  That is just stupid.  But you are too blind to see it.  Why do you think France's unemployment rate hovers around 20 Percent?  Come on....TWENTY FUCKING PERCENT!  If we ever had an unemployment rate that high in the United States we would have another Civil War break out.  So keep your socialism...and keep your unemployment and skyrocketing inflation.  When people are so supported by their government that they don't have to do anything, guess what?  They become lazy and lose the will to better themselves, to seek a better life for them and their family, to actually WANT more for themselves.

So to answer your question....my money.  Because let everyone keep more of their money and their country's welfare will be improved.  But you just don't get it.[/size]

And where does the government get it's money? Or do you prefer anarchy?

There is a place for taxes.  Just don't OVER-tax people.  Do you realize that I have to work the first 6 months of the year just to pay the tax on the money that I make in a year?  Taxes are needed....they are needed for police and the military.  Pretty much everything else in the country could be run by free enterprise.[/size]

But GS, they are going to need extra money to pay off this debt.

Well, when terrorists stop wanting to destroy us, maybe we can start thinking about the debt again.  I don't remember anyone talking about how bad the national debt was when we were in the middle of fighting World War II.  It might surprise some of you to know that the United States IS, in fact, in the middle of a war.[/size]  ;)

GS, true.

First, its not 20 %, its more around 11%.

Second, since you're talking about the US, how about you remove all the small jobs that people dont live on, and have to do 3 or 4 of those everyday to be able to pay a rent, remove those jobs, and lets see how close you get to 11%.
Also, since the US stands for united states, its jobless rate is a medium value: you got states where its very high, and you got states where its very low.

Third, i truly believe there would be a civil war in the US with a rate around 11%, but its not the case in France, and why is that  ? Coz people live well over there, even without a job.

Maybe you should get out of Mississipi, and see whats out there.

WELL HE DID IT. GEORGE W. BUSH RUINED AMERICA. GOOD SHOW OLD CHAP. now if only i could get the hell out of here quicker... (can't wait to cash in GS's ticket promise in a few years :D)

hang on a few more months, and Moron number 1 will be out of the office. Now we might not see any difference from where we are, but hey, we will feel so relieved that the guy who can push the red button is able to eat a pretzel without chocking ;)

Just a point of interest GS, what were you doing in Latvia?

Kerry is Evil. Bush is Eviler. Kerry won't go to war, Bush will.

You earn your money BECAUSE the governemnt exists and provides services, not despite it.

I'm shocked when I hear coservatives whine about how hard they worked to make themselves rich, and yet they have no appreciation of the work the government does to insure they can work and that the structures of a good society are maintained and expanded.

And this whole meme of "the government shouldn't take from the rich to give to the poor" is a misstatement. The government isn't taking money out of the rich's pockets and putting it into the poor's pockets. The government isn't Robin Hood and never will be. THAT sort of policy I'd be completely against because it is unfair.

But the government does take money from everyone and then spends that money where it's needed to be spent. Disagree on where the money goes -- you want it in the military, persay, I want it in schools -- but the money MUST be gathered in order for the country to run. Our credit is only so good, and like any business we need to make money in order to keep working. And who has the most money? The rich. Where can we make the most money, while marginalizing the hurt of that transfer, while maximizing the profit? The rich.

$20,000 to you is a much different number than $20,000 to me. You make, what, $130,000? I make around $26,000. You have a family and I have me, but really, who can afford to "pay in" more? You. Who should we be taxing harder? You.


Also, comparing the state of War in 1942 to that off today is silly.

The war we are fighting is different, it's costs are different, it's threats more intangible and less immeadiate. For a state of war we've pretty much not had much fighting. And to blame the national debt, something Bush was already bringing about before 9/11, on terrorism, is misleading. The debt has come out of poor fiscal policy coupled with irresponsible spending (ie, mercs and corps in Iraq war profiteering, for one).

Finally, most part time or "burger flipping" jobs are not held by teenagers. What a crock.

From a limited perspective everything you say sounds reasonable. Until you step back and recognise the bigger picture.

If there were no government there would be no law. Eventually no matter how well trained you are someone is going to come along with a gang of "thugs" with guns and take everything you spent your money on. Including your G5!

i think it's just a matter of the wrong people being taxed.

It should all be equal.

The thing is that in America if you are a wealthy person you shouldn't be taxed anymore than people that are poor. It's their fault that they don't get a job, and you work you're ass off to pay for everything you own, and these people who do nothing get food and money. From the the other point of view these lazy people are so called "helpless" and need money even though they are too lazy to get a damn job and work its pathetic. Bush cut taxes a lot, and the reason we are poor is from other reasons. Pessimism never created a job thats for sure.

Quoting his favourite PResident and idol or not maniac is right. It's truly your own fault if you drop out of school and now can't afford anything. It's not the governments fault that you screwed up. Equality is the way to go.

Oh dear, not this again. See my previous posts  :-[

The structures of a good society, if you are talking about protection from force and fraud, are the governments job. However, how does giving money to France (and we still do) help maintain the "structure of a good society"? How does forcing prune growers to call their product "prunes" and not "dried plums" maintain the structure of a good society?

Courts, police, military. Thats all we need.

I think you're just lying to yourself dude - acknowledge facts as facts - 41% of our taxes - goes to Social Security and Medicare (and ppl are getting out more from soc. security than they put in) and another 20% goes to "discresionary spending" - robin hood programs. Allow me to quote:

" 'Social gains,' 'social aims,' 'social objectives' have become the daily bromides of our language. The necessity of a social justification for all activities and all existence is now taken for granted. There is no propsal outrageous enough but what the author can get a respectful hearing and approbation if he claims that in some undefined way it is for "the common good... The greatest guilt today is that of people who accept collectivism by moral default; the people who seek protection from the necessity of taking a stand, by refusing to admit to themselves the nature of that which they are accepting; the people who support plans specifically designed to achieve serfdom, but hide behind the empty assertion that they are lovers of freedom, with no concrete meaning attached to the word; the people who believe that the content of ideas need not be examined, that principles need not be defined, and that fats can be eliminated by keeping one's eyes shut. They expect, when they find themeselves in a world of bloody ruins and concentration camps, to escape moral responsibility by wailing: 'But I didn't mean this' " - Ayn Rand, introduction to Anthem, 1946
 
Yes, and a small tax to pay for courts, police, and military is fine. But why should I pay for anything else - my money is for me to use.

What moral right do you have to take his money more than you? Just because he can pay? He's already paying more than you - even if the percentages were equal, he'd still be paying more. I make 25,000 dollars a year, and I pay 7.65 percent of that as SOCIAL SECURITY and Medicare - and i'm never going to see a DOLLAR of it. Is that fair or right? Why do I have to apply for a rebate at the end of the year - I could have invested that money NOW!

The debt exists because of crazy spending - but its not only the war - what about the billions of dollars in pork-barrel projects that our senators and congressmen continually shove through?

And these new jobs aren't burger flipping jobs either. See:
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Labor/bg1773.cfm

Some decent points west, yet this is a endless circle here. Let's just leave it now all has been said. The fact is people still are jobless, and the US still has a deep deficit. No one is to blame but every administration, or president since the US was founded. No point in arguing it.

The poor will always want the rich to be taxed more if only to make them feel some pain, but the rich will always point out they worked harder. I agree with the rich but that's probably because I intend to be rich. MUAHAHHAHAHA.

lol :-D

Tisk tisk. All those smilies and you make your own sideways one...