*DAMN R6 Forum

www.apple.com

New G5s Released:

Dual 1.8Ghz

Dual 2.0Ghz

Dual 2.5Ghz

New design is similar to the leaked images but not the exact same.

Oh baby :D

Yep i thought they would top out at 2.5 ;)

Youve got to love it when you see a stat table looking like this havn't you:
(http://a1632.g.akamai.net/7/1632/51/70593e19be03b0/www.apple.com/powermac/performance/images/photoshop06082004.jpg)


far far to smexy for words! :D I want one!!

Anyone who says they are not having trouble with heat:

"Dual 2.5GHz system include an innovative closed-loop liquid cooling system that provides a continuous flow of fluid over the processors to draw away heat quietly and efficiently."

Bloody inpressive. always been lookingforward to when apple would introduce liquid cooling systems.... This could well be opening up the chances of Quad processor systems in the future..

Accoring to the us applestore... my dream machine set up (well desktop and monitors) would now cost me a little under $14,000  ... hehe cool :D

As for graphics:
** For over-the-top graphics that saturate your senses, choose the optional ATI Radeon 9800 XT, an AGP Pro card and the fastest and most visually advanced 3D graphics accelerator on the planet. The industry?s only cinematic Visual Processing Unit (VPU), the ATI Radeon 9800 XT?s turbocharged 256-bit DDR memory interface and an 8-pixel pipeline combine to deliver production studio-caliber graphics ? in real-time. Perfect for intensive 3D modeling tasks and for equally intensive next-generation games. With highly programmable shader engines and OpenGL feature sets, the ATI Radeon 9800 XT visual processor brings the most detailed worlds to life with movie-quality lighting, textures and effects. **

     Any idea whether these are the 90nm chips or the old style? If they're the older ones running at 2.5 GHz, that could explain the need for a liquid cooling system.

Looks like they are the same 90nm chips. not sure but i don't see any information suggesting otherwise.

Its amazing isn't it. Only apple could make the insides of these computers as bloody inpressive as the outside. the cooling system and the layout of the internal compontents is, forgive my geekyness, just bloody brilliant!

     Yeah, I just downloaded the G5 white paper.


     So that answers that. Makes me wonder why they're running so hot. I'm tired and therefore dumb as a post right now, but I seem to recall part of the reason for going to a smaller process is that the resulting processors generate less heat. Is that true, or no?

     Edit: Holy god, I just happened upon this while reading the white paper: "[The G5's] 58 million transistors are connected by over 400 meters of copper wire..." My mind is officially boggled.

Well when you think about it theoretically youve got an extra 1Ghz going on in these comps - youve got two processors that have jumped in speed by up to 500Mhz each - thats a fair old load of extra heat... I think they probably decided that they just wanted to get them cooler and cooler - its both going to get better results out of the chips, give more space for future speed bumps and (fingers crossed) for future setups with more than 2 processors :D

The delema begins. Do I buy a 2.5ghz today or wait for WWDC and see if the 3ghz is revealed. I suppose that 2.5 to 3ghz isnt really going to be all that noticable of a difference, but it would be nice to boast that I have a 3ghz. Well, my decision will be made tonight.

You won't see a 3GHz at WWDC voods.  And from this quote it sounds like they aren't using the 90nm chip yet.

Macrumors.com

hehe. Never satisfied ;) Don't hold your breath for the 3.0Ghz they arn't going to be here for a long while yet - have a quick look here (http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/2004/06/09/apple/index.php?redirect=1086767638000) it jsut about sums it up.

Not surprising really. however im lookingforward to see what happens to the G4 chip and the prospect of new monitors! :D

-----

Oh no oh no i just found this (http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index.cfm?NewsID=8872)

So my G4 isn't even probably worth half of what it was a year ago... omfg i hate to think what i could scrap for it second hand now :( feckingfecking feckit(http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/YaBBImages/wallbash.gif)

i guess i would do better to hold on to it and use it as a fileserver etc and as a backup machine. i wub it loads... but.....

I'm confused, Loth's post explained that they are using the 90mn chips and Viper's post says they're not, are they or aren't they?

Just wait and see man, what's the rush?  Besides if Apple does release the 3.0 GHz, then maybe (but not likely) the 2.5 GHz might go down in price.  ???

no vipers post dosn't say that they arn't, but just that its harder than they previously thought so things are going a little slower for them. so when at the last macworld they said "woot 3.0Ghz in the next 12 months!" they underestimated how easy that would be... now they've found its a lot harder/slower so the development on the 90mn is going to be a bit slower (hence no 3.0Ghz for a while)

:D

Well, I just went down to the computer store, wanting to see if they will be blowing out the 1.6 G5s at reduced prices, no word yet on that. But, the guy suggested I wait till the end of the month. He has heard strong rumors from inside Apple that new G5 eMac/iMacs are on the way, not the 3Ghz G5 some are hoping for. For someone on a limited budget a G5 eMac would be great.

I'm gonna try to get a Dual 1.8 GHz G5 on my desk by the end of this year. Unless by then 3 GHz are close.

True.  I think the liquid cooling system is more of a preparation for the scaling potential of the 970FX (I'm pretty sure they could've gotten by with fans at 2.5GHz, but at higher clock speeds than that a liquid cooling solution may be required).

They just released iTunes 4.6 as well now with the airtunes thingy feature and other stuff which isn't mentioned! ITs been a busy old time for apple, not to mention the WWDC coming up with 10.4 !  ;D

WOOOOOOt! I am about to purchase a 2.5ghz G5 with the ATI 9800FX 256mb and shipping in a few days!!!  :o

nothing new in those powermacs. Basically, its a G5 overclocked by Apple .

I'm just going to sit here and wait for WWDC to see the shocked look on the face of 2.5 buyers when they see apple screw them by releasing Dual 3s. Then again, 2.5 is good, but to pay top dollar to see apple pull a apple and do the 3 at WWDC could prove funny.

Again, apple didn't do this right. This being the release of 2.5 when they said 3. They shouldn't have said 3 or they should have just over clocked this liquid cooled beast to make it at-least 2.6-2.8.

Yeah the liquid cooling is nothing new...
or the system bus boost on the 2.5Ghz Model...
And the graphics cards are the same...
and the internal casing is the same...
The X8 speed DVD writer is the same...

So completely the same, if you ignore all the changes  :o

No its a 90mn chip. Smaller than the last one.

Well, looks like im going to wait untill after WWDC. The new 2.5ghz EST. Ship date is July and no paticular date. So it wont hurt me to wait to see if the 3ghz is unvealed.

THERE WILL BE NO 3GHZ AT WWDC!!

It will be 6th months till the G5 update or if it is like the last update then it will be a year.

Well, history tells me different.  BTs_Fahq and I both bought single processor 1.8GHz G5s only for Apple to release Dual-Processor 1.8GHz G5s just a month later (or 14 days in my case).  So I say better safe than sorry and wait and see.  There is no way in the world I would buy a 2.5GHz G5 right now (and I have the money to burn).   ;)

Well, you could always buy ME one (cause I don't have the money to burn).  :(

I might agree with you, if not for the fact that you're absolutely wrong.  Sorry  :(

You still think they're releasing 3GHz G5's at WWDC?!  ...I'll send you a picture of my immense surprise when it doesn't happen...

Yes, now you've got it.

Apple didn't upgrade the 1.8GHz G5's less than a month after the G5's were originally announced...

There will NOT be 3GHz G5's at WWDC.  Apple itself has stated this:
Apple would not upgrade the PowerMac line now, and then upgrade it again in less than a month.

Edit: And I suck at teh intarw3b.

Ya, Voods, you may want to go ahead and place that order, they might backorder the 2.5 GHz G5's if you wait until after WWDC. But who knows.

I just confirmed in the Apple forums that the new 2.5 ghz G5 is indeed using the new 970fx chips running at 90nm.  ;D

Yup   ;D

Holy cow how many times untill people realise? Your not going to see 3.0Ghz G5s for a while, probably quite a long while, any quicker than the time it take to go from 2.0 to 2.5? no i doubt it.

Your not going to see G5 laptops this year.

The end.

Using the single 1.8 -> dual 1.8 bump to justify any rumors about 3 GHz processors coming soon is stupid. Adding a second 1.8 GHz processor when you already have the dual mobo ready from the 2 GHz is a trivial task. Going from 2.5 GHz to 3 GHz is such an immensely more difficult process. Basically, the former was a marketing decision, while the latter is a technical problem.

Hi,

The only graphic card that is the same is the stock nVidia 5200 Ultra which has 64mb DDR RAM, the other two ATI graphic cards are new and different.  For starters the ATI Radeon9600XT has 128mb DDR RAM and the ATI Radeon 9800XT has 256mb DDR RAM.  Think of it as a better equiped first generation PowerMac G5.


Sincerely,
oNe

hehe sorry i forgot to enter the [sarcasm] comments - i was so busy entering all the things that apparently handn't changed and thus ment that the the new versions were just 'the same machines overclocked'.

I will remember next time ;)

- liquid cooling, is that a good thing ?
No, coz it clearly demonstrate Apple (or should i say IBM, Motorola, whatever) isnt able to get a proper processor.
Apple's marketing director said at a press conference that 3 Ghz aint gonna happen anytime soon, and that powerbooks G5 aint gonna happen anytime soon either.

As for the processor, if its indeed the 970fx, that'd be a good start but whats the point in having 90 nm processors if we cannot increase the frequence !
Decrease the heat generated ? hum...

- graphic cards:
like it was Apple who manufactures those !
and FX Ge force 5200 Ultra, what the hell !!!!

- 256 MB RAM on entry level computer, how does that sound ?

- what about optional bluetooth and airport  ?

Ok time for a unbiased list... don't look at me that way.

Good
-It's faster
-It has decent graphics cards
-They didn't use that cheap fake design we saw before
-The G5 boxes are now slicker

Bad
-No ATI X800 or NV 6800
-No PCI Express (that isn't PCI-X)
-Still low ram for low end
-Couldn't the G5 boxes have been made into 1 shield instead(not like the fake one, like this but no cut)

Ugly
-Liquid cooling shows that the 90nm has some heat problems
-Liquid cooling in notebooks?
-Cheap Graphics card for LOW end
-Only one all new system

Questions raised
-Why didn't they wait for WWDC?
-Why did they make such a speed gap between 1.8-2.5 when the prices don't reflect that?
-Who's in-charge of Apples Graphics Card choice? NVIDIA's new better chip is 100% mac compatible if it is manufactured.
-Will Steve dare show his face at WWDC?
-Can Apple get the G5s into the Powerbooks? Are they the big WWDC news?
-Could the all dual leave room for a G5 iMac? G5 cube?
-New G5's=New Displays?

Comment
-The 90nm G5 isn't a NEW thing. You keep saying it was a great revolution for the G5s, but it happened in January with the Xserves.
-I don't know much about liquid cooling, but I just picture a lot can go wrong if it's used in portables or desktops that are moved a lot.
-I still ask WHAT THE HELL?! Why is the 1.8 and 2.0 expensive in comparison to the 2.5? Is this a ploy to make us buy the top end machine because it looks more bang for buck? Way to manipulate steve.

There. Done. Happy?

Hi,

Mysterio the ATI X800 and nVidia 6800 graphics cards aren't even released yet for the PC. You can pre-order them however.  In other words, Apple is tinkering with the latest processor technology which is unstable.  There are some technology that hasn't been "invented" yet or would be too expensive for a consumer product.


Sincerely,
oNe

The PC world has been using liquid coooling for yrs now.. w few if any major probs that I have heard of. So I dont see why apple should not take part in using this technology to cool the computers.. Mybye they will make a newer powerbook that wont burn your leggs if you use it too long!!

Lemme get this straigt, for 2 grand you can get a Dual 1.8ghz, but it comes with 256 MB SDRAM and its only expandable to 4 GB? And they cut the hard drive to 80 GB?

At least admit the 1.8 deal isn't that good for the buck compared to the previous. It was easier to justify vs a 1.8 but no a 2.0.

What the hell does this mean?  Looks like uninformed, incoherent bullshit, but feel free to correct me.

The frequency was increased by half of one GHz (that's a 25% clock speed increase per processor).  I'm afraid I don't get where you're coming from here.

Yes, the 970FX at 2.5GHz runs cooler than the 970 at 2.0GHz (about on par with the 970 at 1.8GHz).  It also requires less power ? according to a senior technical staff member at IBM, the 970FX dissipates 50W of power during typical use, down from the 66W required by its predecessor at significantly lower clock speeds.

You said it quite well..."what the hell"?  I have no idea what you're trying to suggest with this equivocal statement.

Also, could someone please fill me in on the reason for everyone's abhorrence of liquid cooling?  Given that the 970FX at 2.5GHz run cooler than the 970 at lower clock speeds, it appears to be more a shift in design philosophy at this point than a necessity, and is likely in preparation for the inevitable scaling up to or exceeding 3GHz.  Liquid cooling is also both very effective and very quiet.  So what's with all the hate?  Why you gotta be like dat?

Schwing!  I hope so.

Mysterio, you do realize that people who ordered their 90nm 2.0GHz Xserves back when they were announced are just starting to recieve them now?  OK, just checking.  And considering the 90nm G5 was not to be found before now in any desktop class machines, this kinda is new, no?

Well not going over board, but i think its freaking brilliant. Its another proven way of making these computers both cooler and as a result quieter. Liquid cooling systems disperse heat quietly - ok you need the fan to blow the heat of the water as it were ( you know what i mean) but its a more effective way of moving the heat than just a fan and a hunk of metal (heatsink)

I don't see what the problem is it. Personally i love it. and if its going to make my computer cooler, and therefore mean the fans have to do less work - then i am going to have a quieter and more efficient computer who's processor can get more work done at the lower tempreatures.

Id say these new G5 = party time! (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/YaBBImages/banana.gif)

If we assume that liquid cooling is the least prefered method for hardware developers too cool down their processors, kinda like a B plan.. . C if you will. Then it says IBM wasen't able to create a good enough processor that stays cool with "regular" cooling dosen't it?

Then again I know shit about processors and liquid cooling might even be the prefered way too cool em' down (not that it is, maybe becouse of price  ??? )

I think that was what bobby was trying to say, get it cobra?

     Physically speaking, liquid cooling is far more efficient. Design-wise, it has the potential to be messy (and probably harmful to the electronics) if it leaks, and there's the possibility of clogging the pump(s). A careful design can minimize the former and eliminate the latter, leaving liquid cooling as a good thing overall.

Apple Store (http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/70202/wo/gH37l8dmsgv82rIufGtgOcuXGn3/0.0.7.1.0.5.13.0.5.0.0.0.0.3.1.1.0?37,59)

the good thing abotu the new 5's is the oild ones are cheaper

Refurbished Power Mac G5  
Units subject to stringent refurbishment process prior to sale.
Power Mac G5 1.6 GHz 256MB/80GB/SuperDrive/GigE/56K ??? ???$1,299.00
Power Mac G5 1.8 GHz 512MB/160GB/SuperDrive/GigE/56K ???  ???$1,499.00
Power Mac G5 DUAL 1.8GHz 512MB/160GB/SuperDrive/GigE/56K ??????$1,799.00
Power Mac G5 DUAL 2GHz 512MB/160GB/SuperDrive/GigE/56K ???  ???$1,999.00

woot dual 2.0 2000

WHILE SUPPLIES LAST

Edited the URL.

Great Deals!

Really good deals.

However, I was wondering if there's any way to get an Education discount with the Special Deals...

and then maybe take out the superdrive...

And then you've got yourself a $900 G5.

my point is, i dont think the half a Ghz increase is due to the processor itself or the way it is manufactured, but mainly because of the introduction of a new cooling system far more efficient that the previous one.

You dont seem to realize that, or you dont want to realize it coz you're one of those fans who'd say amen to anything as long as its Apple's. The good thing though, is that Apple's marketing is doing a hell of a job, you're the proof of that .

Are you a chip designer. Are you an electrical engineer at least? Hell, are you an engineer at all? A 25% clock speed increase is significant. Take a look at Intel. It was a bitch for them to go from 3.2 GHz to 3.4 GHz, barely more than a 5% increase.

Of course, if you are the grand poobah of modern chip design, by all means tell me to shut the fuck up. But until then, do some research before you run your mouth. I am a computer engineer, and I'm telling you that this is no trivial feat.

The CPU in the new G5 is not the same as the last one. Its a 90nm G5 thats smaller than the last one. It is not simply a overclocked CPU from the first G5.

Bobby, have you no faith in Apple and IBM?

It would all be fine and dandy saying that, if apple had just taken the old G5's over clocked them and stuck some cooling in to try and stop them from burning up... and we'd all gone doo lally over how fantastic it was. but the fact of the matter is that these new G5's have some major changes and inproments, and good inproments and worthwhile inproments at that.

Crypt, i'm an Apple fan too, i sure wish long life to the powermacs and powerbooks.

Apple can surprise us, as it just did with the airport express.

But i'm afraid Apple is more and more concentrating on non-computer stuff, the i-stuffs if you will. And why would they do otherwise, its with those gadgets they make their money.

Yeah, I get it.  Yet his statement remains implausible and disjointed.

You are incorrect.  See Ace's post.

Hah hah...you have got to be shitting me...

I would consider myself far from being a blind Apple apologist.  Are you stating this because you have no facts or evidence to buttress your own ignorant assertions?  I'm sure of it.  If you'd like to rebut something particular in any of the arguments I've made, I encourage you to do so, but you have to support your claims.  Attempting to palliate my credibility with statements like this make you come across as a pretentious dipshit.

Then this must be the iG5, right? (http://images.apple.com/powermac/images/indextop06082004.jpg)



I'm sorry bobby, but I think I have to go to the archives for the suitable response:


(http://www.hireasanta.com/images/David-K-shhh-Bost-Flordia-4.jpg)

lol looks more like he's sticking his finger up his nose searching for that illusive boggy rather than 'shushing' ;)

ps... snipe if the iG5's are the same price as the iMacs can u put me down for two please ;)

I must say that those who protest apple's expansion into music need to stand back a bit. The revenue the iPod has made helped to bring apple the the debt free situation. There is no reason to say that they can't do both because they show that they can. That's that. It isn't worth arguing over something a 2D as that.

Cobra, your only response to my comment on this not being new was complete BS. It wasn't new because there were already 90nm processors. If apple put a 1.8 130nm processor out one month, then released a 2.0 130nm processor the next the 2 wouldn't be a revolution. Sure, it's great to support Apple, but don't try to over inflate a speed bump and tweak to the cooling.

Damnit I also want such refurbished prices, grrr. I would immediatly buy a 2.0 Rev A for 1999 bucks...

Just waiting here a little bit how the price situation develops...

A new G5 can only be a question of few weeks until I have mine  ;D

Mauti

Ive decided to wait til late July, after WWDC (it is in July, right?) well, after the WWDC, whenever that is, is when ill order, just to be sure dual 3 GHz machines, as insanely unlikely as they may be, dont show up.  Just incase.  

Plus, that gives time for a quick shakedown of problems to occur, and hopefully be fixed.  (Like any problems with liquid cooling exploding in a small nuclear bomb, or something like that)

But still you hope... still you want to believe that it might just happen ;)
Im going to stick with this baby untill the end of next year - this thing still has a lot of life in it and right now my money would be better spent on some RAID storage or somthing to back my damn work up... ugh the painfull memories (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/YaBBImages/wallbash.gif)

Hey, if it did, you sure wouldnt hear me complaining! =D

I know the possibility of Dual 3's comming out at the WWDC is unlikely as all hell, but with my luck, this would be the -one- time that it does happen, and then i would cry.

The next question is are the 30" flatpanels going to be released at the WWDC?  A Dual 2.5 + 30" Flatpanel...mmmmm sexy.  

Sitting by a 30" screen with 0.5m distance.. . now that's a neck braker  ;D

With alittle luck, and if i can refrain from spending all my earnings during the summer.. . i just might end up with low-end powermac before schools start.  :)

Wait.  Step back.  I didn't say or think or imply that this speed bump was a "revolution".  I have never "over-inflated" a speed bump ? this is 2.5GHz and we were promised 3GHz (are you responding to the right person?).  The jump to 90nm in PowerMacs is new (would you like a definition?  "recent"; "different from has been").  There were previously no 970FX's in Apple's desktop level machines (and more or less only nominally so in their servers, what with the delays).  Complete BS?  Ahm.  No.  There's not even anything to dispute here...this is trivial, in any case, unless you were implying something other than what I addressed (in which case you should restate your point).

Yeah, it starts on the 28th of June, goes to July 2nd.  So, not too long to wait  :)

30" sldkfjwea;kjfsd ;lnf/a,.nSHAITHEFUXORrichies  ;asdkjf;a

thats bigger than my fuckin tv... goddamn!

Yeah, I'd need a new desk for a 30" monitor.  23" sounds like plenty for me, at the moment.

WTF, I just called Apple Sales and they said the dual 2ghz has a nvidia geforce 4 mx 64mb card...I was really going to get one...but WTF.

Interesting... not what it said on the website ???

Probably a misunderstanding. Further I would suggest you to order the 9600XT for 60EUR more! It delivers 20 - 30 fps more than the outdated NVidia 5200FX. That's a good bang for the buck.

Bye,

Mauti

hey Mauti! you getting one of the new G5s? :)

Yep I think it is time. I just wait until the end of my term(2nd July) so I can learn without always thinking about my ultra cool super?berdr?ber fast G5, hehe.

Further I wait for WWDC and the first G5 benchmarks and then I gonna decide if I buy an old refurbed one(if I can find one in Austria or Germany), or a new one. Which one it will be isn't decided yet. We will see - I'm excited.

My old iMac wants to retire and become an ultra silent server and cool designed jukebox ;)

Bye,

Mauti

I meant the refurbished dual 2ghz G5s ;-)!

Someone buy me a G5 please  ;D

?

I have only one thing to say...

I second that

im tying my hands to the chair, locking the credit card away and blocking the apple.com site. the wait will be so much better when i can order my Quad 3.0Ghz G5 Hmmmm ;)

Fuck it, I couldnt wait.

dual 2.5ghz w/256mb graphic card...bought and paid for...expected in July.

Im giddy as a school girl!!!

OMG Voods. Order me one while ur at it ;)

Do you have any idea how expensive that would be?   ;D

yeah hehehe. I think current estimation would see it topped off at around 10-12 Grand. maybe another 0 on the end for good measure ;)

Think of the fps you'd get though!

I just Bouht one, Im so Pissed and So Impatient. The dual 2.5 G5's Aint comin out till as late as August 2nd.

Enjoy the wait! =D
*snicker*

Lol BFG, a quad 3ghz?  Sure, youll have the computer, and you'll be living on the street.  Maybe you can sell it off to me for half price or something.

This is why I believe they didn't announce it at WWDC, they can get it to you sooner instead of later.

yeah hehe i will be in orbit with it ;) you'll see my carbord box in the street just hovering a foot off the ground cos of the power surge ;)

If the shipping date is past WWDC can't you just see:

"And one more thing...
We promised 3GHz last year, and we aren't going to kid you; we failed to get that goal. We have announced 2.5 GHz Powermacs...and there's been a slight typo... you see, that's supposed to read 3.5 GHz Powermacs..."

Just let apple do something this dramatic once!

omg, that'd be... OMG! i?d go steal some money somewhere and get one... i?m serious. :o

Hehehe!

Not a chance in hell of that happening, but...would be clever! ;)

yeah, because Apple announced a presentation of the new G5s at the Mac Expo here in Cologne/Germany this friday. :)

Oh look a flying pig...

umm, we have an energy-drink here in germany called The Flying Pig. lol... coincidence? :o

and we have Red Bull :D

pff, did you know that Red Bull comes from the small village "Fuschl am See" in Salzburg, Austria?

No, no i didn't.

Perhaps back to the G5s?

Myst what else is there to be said about them. When people start getting them, they can share experiences but for now we've analyzed them as much as possible :D

     "Fuschl am See" translates to "tastes like crap, works like crack".

lmao Loth

Well, i guess you can say it fits, the drink is horrible.

But surely we can all throw in a random anti-Steve word.

my refurbished dual 2ghz just shipped today!!! WEEEE, time to come back.

Get rid of the AMD avatar and I'll believe it.

There goes the neighborhood.