*DAMN R6 Forum

Here is a story I found about how Saddam's new French Lawyer says we are mistreating him:

 Saddam's French Lawyer  (http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/story.jsp?floc=NW_1-T&oldflok=FF-APO-PLS&idq=/ff/story/0001/20040328/1553091132.htm)

Give me a break.  We could torture that fucker on national T.V. and I wouldn't give a shit about his "rights".  What about the rights of the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of innocent men, women, and children this guy raped and murdered?

After torturing him, I suggest we beat the shit out of that French fucker that wants to defend him.  Hm, does it make anybody else wonder about French loyalties when you found out a French lawyer would be defending Saddam?

Peace.

-GhostSniper Out.

The only thing I have to say is:

If you think that way, you are no better then him...

That lawyer is being paid to defend him. There are many defense atournies that defend people they know are guilty and that they know are despicable. It doesnt mean that they sympathize with a mass murderer personally. As for French loyalties, well I think their loyalties are to France.

If you think that way, you are no better then him...


Yes, hundreds of thousands of peole demanded rights... and under saddam they didn't get them. However you don't just say "well you don't get any rights either" ... Everyone is entitled to rights, thats what SHOULD differentiate you from them.

And please stop against the french. firstly it's rubbish and unfounded and secondly its just lame.

i don't think he deserves that right either, but it doesn't matter because the trial is going to be in iraq, not the hague. and this lawyer, while having the balls to take on the worst of clients, hasn't fared well in their defense. his clients usually get life in jail. being that the trials are going to be in iraq, i doubt saddam will get that lucky.  

here's a little bit on the lawyer and some of his clients:   http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3578421.stm

Sure, I would love to stop being against the French (and by French here I am saying the French Government, not the French people).  But I'll tell you what, that has got to be the most un-appreciative government in the history of the world.  The United States bailed them out of World War I, World War II, and Vietnam.  How do they thank us?  They pull their forces out of NATO, they side with our enemies, they go against us at every opportunity in the United Nations, and they make policies that put Americans in danger.

Wow, and I'm supposed to be in love with THAT government???

The last time I visited France was for the 50th Anniversary of the D-Day Invasion at Normandy.  You should see the American Military Cemetaries there.....they are just beautiful.  So many Americans died there to make the French people free.  And now they just shit on us.

Peace.

-GhostSniper Out.

P.S. Just on a side note, this French Lawyer is a Communist who married a known Terrorist that he defended in the 1950's.  Yeah, real nice guy there.

Every time, Every time its allways the "we saved their ass in WWII" ... The american's weren't the only ones to die fighting in WWII, to say they had no inpact would be rubbish, but to say that the french did not appreicate it is equally rubbish. There are cemetries from WWII everywhere, maybe they are not as clear and well kept as the american ones, many fallen soldiers are lost where they fell...

Perhaps they go against your actions becasue they believe them to be wrong? i do not see the relevance of linking that to the "we saved their ass so they should be our puppy dog" argument

what are these policies that put Americans in Danger? So as France sided with much of Europe ( as i believe the UK should have done) does that mean that countries like Germany are you enemy?

absolutly every opportunity?  Lets take for instance the fact that the US recently blocked a draft UN statment on the recent murder of the religious leader of Hamas recently by israeli attack helecopters... Allmost all the rest of the world condemmed the action as unlawful etc, except the the US... France wasn't the only country 'siding with your enemies'... in fact i believe you were totally alone.

no BFG, america was the only country with the balls to veto the bullshit resolution that mentioned nothing of the constant suicide bombings that this so-called religious leader personally ordered. infact england, germany, and romania abstained on the vote. so america wasn't totally alone.

Erm beside the point i belive... there has been more than enough comment on the problem of the terrorist attacks. but it goes back to the If you think that way, you are no better then him...
Yes there are terrorist attacks and suiside bombing's... that dosn't justify those actions taken by Israel.

wow. you're right bfg. and america has no right to go after usama either. and france had no right to go after the jackal. after every terrorist attack we should simply give in to their demands. when war is declared upon you you should simply roll over and surrender. you're absolutly right bfg we should just do what they want us too and there will be peace and love forever. LOL!

     Hahahaha, oh, that's a good one, Cutter. You get bonus points for use of logical fallacy, too. Yes, obviously arguing against using the tactics that are condemned when terrorists use them is identical to arguing that we should give in to terrorists. How silly of all of us not to notice that. How COULD you, BFG?

The only reason the Palestinians use suicide bombers is because that's the only weapon they have. Meanwhile, we give the Israelis billions of dollars in modern warfare equipment so they can just stomp the hell out of them. Real fair. Now, I'm not taking sides with the Palestinians, I think what they do is disgraceful, but just remember both sides' hands are dirty.
As for the lawyer...That's what lawyers do. Besides, it IS true that the Geneva convention was violated. When American POWs are paraded around on TV, we raise a shitstorm! However, when we do the same thing to Saddam Hussein, nobody says a damn word. Not that it matters. Who's gonna tell us what to do? We're the United States of fucking America. Now, I can sorta buy into the arguement that if we hadn't shown the Iraqis that Saddam was captured, the shit would be hitting the fan even harder over there. Nevertheless, it's mostly just good publicity and good politics for Bush.
Now...as for the anti-French sentiments, that will never change. Two rude cultures don't play nice together. Until the French or us Americans get an attitude change, it'll stay this way. Big deal. We're all men(and women), we can take it, although I can see how it'd be annoying to non-French/American readers.  ;D
End rant. Back to being mellow.

Only thing i have to say is.....only the french....only the french....WE SURRENDER!!!!!

Yeah stupid me Loth eh ;) There i was thinking that the world was good v evil and black and white...

Especailly since i have obviously been suggesting the world rolls over to terrorism like a little puppy dog... um yes, becasuse i totally agree with terrorism don't i cutter, and i think they are all right, and i think saddam, and osma, and bush (lol) are good fair men.... lol

Perhaps my point was just a little to complicated for sombody to understand? lol well i guess i hang my head in shame loth ;)

We saved your ass in those great big wars over there....you owe us....yeah right...seems history knowledge only goes so far.....Did not the french help the americans in the war of independence? Wait wait...let us not stop there....did you not flee from british oppression in the first place...and now you asked them for their help? Is that not the traitor cowering back to its former leader?? Wait....here you go to war on a dictator that is torturing his own ppl...while you have done so for centuries? Be it indians or africans? Or are these examples you want to forget? And the two world wars are handy examples, because you tipped the balance in both of them....well then....how nice of you to help us. But that does not mean we should help you every time you need us to...and especially if it goes against our believes.

And why should the rest of the world be blamed for not helping the U.S. to get rid of a dictator that the U.S. is partly to blame for being there in the first place? STOP TELLING THE REST OF THE WORLD WHAT TO THINK!!!  You have been spreding shit all over this planet for the last 50 years...and all you can do is blame others......This planet is big enough for more than one race and more than one religion.

And ghostsniper...when you end your post with peace....don't you mean war? for that is all I can see from the narrow perspective you give in EVERY political post!

Peace for all
(and by the way...with "you" in this post I mean the american government)

LOL.

1. I love Mr. Lothario
2. I love Mr. Mellow
3. I love Mr. Brutha

... peace! lol

Let's start with France helping America during the Revolutionary War....that is not the same French government that is in power these days, now is it?  That French government was overthrown and a new one put in place after the American Revolution.  The people of France stormed the Bastille on July 14, 1789, starting the French Revolution that ended the monarchy in France forever.  It was the Monarchy in France that aided the United States, not the new French Government.  So, your argument here does not hold water (I am about to get my Master's Degree in World History....I already have a B.A. in History.....I know what I'm talking about).

Another point you are wrong on is the Indians and Africans.  Our government did not condone the torture of these people, individuals did.

Please stop trying to revise history to fit your argument.  What's wrong, are you still mad that the United States didn't make it into Norway at the end of World War II to liberate your country?  But yes, that is true, Norway was one of the few occupied countries that the Germans still held at the end of the war.  So sorry.

And no, I never said that countries we helped in the past should automatically HELP us when we need it....I am, however, saying that those countries shouldn't try to block us at every move.


I never said it wasn't.  And I'm not blaming anyone for not helping.  I am blaming them for hindering our efforts.


Well, as a person who has seen war, I just see things a little differently than you do.  For I am a warrior, a historian, a writer, and a political scientist (besides being a Fleet Sales Manager....lol).


Sure, you want peace.  As do I.  But I tell you this....you will NEVER achieve peace by giving in to terrorists.  I know this for a fact.


Peace.

-GhostSniper Out.

i dont know if i should reply, its not even funny what this ghostsniper says, well i'm so happy he is interested in france!!! well france is not interested in U!! And u know u will juge ur self soon and revisit ur jugment, history is full of contradiction and u watch to much foxnews.

Bush will loose his election and some!! some truth will come out when he will be gone!!

i'm sorry for u Ghostsniper!

ghost, the real one!! ;-)

HF

Could you try re-writing that shit in English for me please?

I agree with Mr. Mellow here, both sides are equally guilty. The palestines don?t have the right killing innocent ppl. But Isra?l neither. I believe Sharon has to pay for his acts. To me he?s the next Hitler, he builds walls around a community, he disparages them. He doens?t allow them any rights. They are marked just like the jews were.
Hamaz, the biggest resistance against Sharon, is getting blackend by the media and the Isra?lian governement. I also think their suicide bombers are disgracefull and they should stop terrorist acts against civillians. But thats not the only thing Hamaz does. They raise money for charity. They build universitys and schools. They build hospitals and work for the supplies for the poor ppl on the streets. But you never hear about that on the news.
Like Mellow said the suicide bombers are the only way for them to trying to get some rights against their suppressers. But the problem is Sharon doens?t want to negotiate. He only does what he thinks is right for his ppl and not for the others. Just like Saddam did for his ppl. But is the US gonna attack Isra?l and bring down Sharon? No...
To Bush the only terrosist are the guys that don?t wanna work together with him in makin him richer.
My point is, Sharon is guilty and has to pay for that.

I can see why Sharon wouldn't want to negotiate, though. As GhostSniper says, you can never give in to terrorists. It only further encourages people to use violence to persuade foreign governments. For example, Spain pulling it's troops out of Iraq after the bombings. While I can see their want to distance themselves from the U.S. to prevent further attacks, it will only make things worse for the rest of the world. Now that terrorists know they can bully around Western powers, they'll just step up their attacks.
Back to Sharon, though. Any negotiation with terrorists is seen as a sign of weakness and surrender to the Palestinians. They feel that if Sharon is willing to negotiate, they've finally brought the Israelis to their knees, which is not the case. However, this just means the suicide bomings will keep coming and coming until Israel is reduced to nothing. It's a very complicated situation and peace will be hard, if not impossible, to achieve.

hey ghost, dont be rude...... try writing your posts in french.

on a personal note, if some wanker like sadam tortured and killed my family, i wouldnt give a fuck if he was starved to death, beaten or killed. Now if that makes me as bad as him then fair enough.

Actually lothario, I see no fallacy in Cutter's statement.  Israel DOES have a right to defend itself.  There is absolutely no difference between Israel killing a terrorist leader after a series of terrorist bombings and the U.S killing terrorist leaders after 9/11.  Now if you think what the U.S did in Afghanistan was wrong, then that is a different story.

Yeah I completly agree with you if you agree to demands from terrorists you admit they were right and they win and then you loose and we dont want to loose...
Are you all those sort of people that start crying if they lost a game??? Spain did not pulled back his troops because of the terrorist attack,it took a small role, but they already said before that attack they would.

Ho and because the us helped us in ww1 and 2 we should let them attack other countries in the world just like hitler. Just learn to show some respect to other countries dont look down on them and treat them like shit and then complain if they dont like you.

look bfg we all agree that war, death, and terrorism are terrible happenings. and we all wish it was no more. but when somebody or some nation wishes and inflicts those things unto you, what do you suggest happen? sit down for a cup of tea and discuss it? were churchill and roosevelt as bad as hitler because of the carpet bombing of dresden? if somebody robs my house and does harm to my family, and i find the guy and beat the living crap outta him....am i as bad as him? that's what i'm getting out of your posts. and comparing bush to usama and sharon to hitler is not only stupid it's disguting.

i just don't see how some people can think that sharon should be punished, but his counterpart shouldn't have been. it's war man. war is hell as they say. sharon is a target just like yassin was. not because of this, but for years he's been a target. yes both sides have inflicted horrible suffering onto each other. is it a good thing for either side? no. does it make it o.k. to continue the killings, no. but let's not forget who called for this intifada.

Well, I don't speak or write in French, so I don't post in French.  I would prefer he just post in French and leave it to me to translate.  I know German, but not well enough to post a message in it without making a bunch of mistakes, so I post in English.  I wasn't trying to be rude (but it was, I know), but I just couldn't make out what it was he was trying to say to me except to stop watching Fox News.

Anyhow, I like the second part of your post, wiggy :)

i think Bush and his government dont need the French to do that !

Bobby you should keep your silly little mouth shut.

nah

For the isreal palistinian conflict, their both bad boys but who is the worst?
The palestian guy who blows himself up killing some jews
or isreal sending troops into palestina taking land shoot missles out of helicopters on cars and houses kick palestinians out of their land so jews can live there and get profit out of the land...

You can say isreal does it out of selfdefence but its pretty clear palestinians also do this out of selfdefence because they dotn have an army to defend themselfes. Now both sides are killing eachother out of selfdefence, pretty dumb he. I say move all isrealis back into isreal and give palestinians what they deserve and then see what happens. Ok its  Isreal offcourse is not going to do that but i believe there wont be many palestians blowing themselfes up in isreal then.

Hehe...now you see my point...hardly the same government in France now as in WWI or II. But your post makes you sound like YOU believe so. If it was the same government...then that would be another matter. And BFG...as for history..there is a lot of shit on the brits as well...so wait with the love statement til we have had a little talk, mate. And as for Norway..no I am not angry over the fact that norway wasnt liberated by the americans....as germany was easier to attack than Norway. And no, I am not saying that we should give in to terrorism..and I am not saying that the occupation is wrong(but not that it is right either). What I am saying is that we(that means all of us) should stop using the past as an excuse to call in favors......especially if it is 60 years ago. I am just sick of hearing americans(some) use this as an excuse to blame the french for everything....as you did with the french lawyer. I want history to be a thing we learn from and not to repeat, as I am sure most of you out there want as well.

peace

Id agree with most of the rest of your post plope, certainly i belive israel is in a greater wrong, but i don't think that the situation is black and white enough for the above quote to result in anything but problems... its jsut not that simple anymore

its not that simple anymore but it would probely help and it sounds much better then keep killing eachother or just eliminate them all on one side

Ok 2c worth from a big island in between the pacific and indian oceans.

I will start with a simple proposition: The whole concept of if you do not agree with me then you are in agreement with my enemy is simplistic and flawed logic that really does not hold water.

Before this discussion crashed and burned in the unsolvable problem in the middle east it started with the statement that torturing Sadam would be a good thing.

As allegedly "civilised" people if we condone doing to him that he has done to others, how can we believe we are any better than him. Just because he did wrong, does that justify us doing the same? An eye for an eye just leaves a whole lot of blind people.

What really gets me going is the hypocrisy that is being shown with the detainees being held in Cuba. Even their state appointed military lawyers are saying they will not get a fair hearing. America will not give them access to American law, neither will they treat them under the terms of the Geneva Convention. Ironic that they are being held outside law.

I will wade into the discussion on the middle east. Trying to work out which side can justify its position.... shit they BOTH are stuffed, and neither can! I have no idea how any country can justify killing children in the name of self defense, and they BOTH have and continue to do.

Just how many children is it ok to kill in the name of peace?

.::Quote::. And no, I never said that countries we helped in the past should automatically HELP us when we need it....I am, however, saying that those countries shouldn't try to block us at every move. .::Quote::.


Yes they should if if they disagree with the "moves"  >:(
Nothing says they have to order ... and don't tell me about history or whatever ; history made us what we are today it musnt be a weight

Your damn right. We were the nasiest piece of f*cking work around not long back... hell the empire spread accross the globe and we didn't exactly say "excuss me can we come and stay in your country" - and i certainly wouldn't question that.



Totally. I don't think anyone would agree on anything else ;) however, the invasion of iraq was tied into the 'war on terrorism'... both the british and us goverments lied to us about the reasons for going into war... Iraq wasn't a threat to anyone, hell they can't even feed their population let alone be a terrorist threat... THe fact Saddamn has been captured is great, the way we went about catching him was VERY wrong... and the state we have left the country afterwards is even worse.

And that is exactly it. So why people talk shit about the "we saved your ass in WWII etc is just stupid.

Not taking a purly modernist approch but the Second world war is history, we must be aware of what happend to understand the present, but the people in power then are not the same now. i bet 95% of the guys that post on the forums wern't alive in the 70's let alone in the 30's or 40's...


its a crazy comparison... on one side you have a small minority of extreamists killing themselves and others in an effort to defend and fight against their oppressors... On the otherside you have a huge millitary power, controled by a goverment, which has illigally invaded, broken over 140 UN resolutions, has 1st class military hardware supplied by the US and UK among others, and is killing and oppressing the palistinian people...

Btw french governement is about to change in the next hours :)

Okay, I am sick and tired of hearing about how Israel is the bad guy!  Look, GOD promised them that land thousands of years ago.  IT IS THEIRS!  Then in 1948 the WORLD gave them that land.  IT IS THEIRS!  Since they have been a country, every other country in the Middle East has tried to take their land back.  IT IS THEIRS!  The Palestinians want to say it is "their" land....well, it IS NOT!

If the Palestinians put down their weapons there will be peace.  If the Israelis put down their weapons, there will be no more Israel.

isn't it the funiest argument you ever heard lol ....

Might sound funny to you non-believers out there.....but that's the thing...it doesn't matter if you believe or don't believe, because in the end, you will sit before God and have to give account for you life.  What are you going to say then?

laugh withall the people that wasted their life for nothing

Dude, you need to keep things in perspective. First of all, the imbalance of power in the conflict in Israel`s favor didnt come about over night. In 1948 it was the Israelis whose homes were being attacked by a huge military power, controlled by governments (about 5 of them), equipped with 1st class military hardware supplied mainly by the UK. And guess what else? This was in blatant violation of the UN`s partition plan for the area. The resolutions that Israel has "broken" sin ce then were general assemly resolutions (which are not binding), rather than security council resolutions (which are).

Also, it might be just a small minority of extremists actually carrying out the attacks, much of the population supports suicide/homicide bombings as a tactic in principle and the official leadership rarely condemns them, unless its in english on foreign tv stations. Then they turn around and tell their people that the intifada is working and talk about terrorists as martyrs. Go check out some footage from a bombers funeral and you will know what im talking about. These guys become instant heros.

If I was Palestinian I'd be making heroes of them, too. I'll write up a quick scenario for ya guys. Your family has lived on the same farm in Florida for 5 generations. You love it, just sitting there, minding your own business. You have a way of life there. Suddenly, the world declares that the part of Florida you live in is now a part of Georgia, and all of your posessions and property belong to Georgia. The Georgians start pouring into Florida and claiming YOUR land for their own. Well, you get kicked out of your house, lose your farm and what-have-you. You're left with nothing but the things you can carry on your back. You're forced to relocate to another part of Florida. So, fine, you can't do much about it, you relocate further south. Problem is, everyone else is relocating there too. Land becomes expensive as hell, as there's more people than property. It's cramped, crowded, and it just plain sucks compared to the giant farm that's been in your family for generations. Well, you want to get that farm back, but Tennessee has been supplying the Georgians with modernized warfare equipment. You don't even own a gun. What else are you going to do? The World? won't give you your land back, and the Georgians are having a nice time sitting in their new houses, and don't plan on giving them up without a fight.
Anyways, just another perspective on the situation. Feel free to pick it apart sentence by sentence, while citing and quoting numerous 500 page volumes of text to make me look like a retard.  ;D

Nope, don't need 500-page volumes of text to make you look like a retard....

Here is the big underlining root of this......it isn't that the WORLD gave the Israelis this land in 1948, it is that GOD gave them this land thousands of years ago!  Now, if you think you can side-step GOD, then be my guest.  Problem is, the Palestinians don't believe in the same god that the Israelis do....so this is a problem that will never end.

And since I don't want to keep repeating the same statement over and over, I'm just going to change my signature to what I would normally put where this sentence is.

-GhostSniper Out.

i need another bloody whisky.

ok, sorry if you live in America but i've just decided that 'my' GOD gave me some land sometime... its called north america and i reckon i want it. I don't give a fuck that you live there and seeing as good and your evil im just going to use my big army to come and take it from you. Im going to murder your family and im going to destroy you homes. Im going to force you to live in fear, under curfiew, and im going to deprive you of every single thing i can. Im going to take your land, im going to arrest your friends, im even going to destroy the means in which you police your own people. Im going to keep your goverment under restrants, your leader under house arrest, and im going to fuck you over good. And when small groups of resistance form in rebellian and attack my people, hell im going to make sure you cant stop them because i have destroyed your police force, and then im just going to kill even more of your people, and im going to destroy more houses and fuck you over even more.

But Oh! how dare you attack my people in retaliation? poor them! you sacrifice your own lives in your fight against me? You fucking terrorist scum how dare you. Why don't you pick on my heavily armed well trained army? why don't you attack my tanks, or my attack helecopters with your little home made bombs? Well i must defend myself! Poor me! lets fucking kill even more off you and build a great big fucking wall to keep you out of our land. GOD gave me this land a few thousand years ago so you can just fuck of somewhere else. Actually maybe we can just kill you all off so there isn't a problem. HAHA, and i have friends in high places and they Block the international community from doing anything! HAHAH your fucked now. and i'll just go my merry way.


OH how dare they! Support another god?! Really well isn't that just fucking la de dar. Perhaps all the palestinians should become christians, because we are good and they are evil scum.

Even if there was anything even resebling a 'god' that you belive in... if he has any sense he's gonna tell you to fuck right off...

Excuss me while i go and throw up. you make me fucking sick.

Hmmm, a bit of religious information.

Yes the Israelis and the Palestinians do believe in the same GOD.  You are confusing GOD with prophets.  Mohammed and Jesus are prophets (for those of you who are of a christian faith, jesus is considered a bit more as the son of GOD).  But both of these groups believe in the same GOD.

The Koran recognizes the Jews as actual followers of the scripture (also christians), but just an old and not complete one given to them by Mohammed.  The koran in a sense is a new and updated version that us heathens need to abide by.  They also recognize Jesus, but he isn't that important in their religion, Mohammed in a sense is their Jesus.  The only difference here is that Mohammed never claimed to be the son of GOD, just a prophet.

thanks,

continue

nice one fah... and something to remember unless your a religious fundamentalist in which case becasue you wrote that  im sure they will now come knocking on your door with a can of petrol, rope, firewood  and a large stake.

Shit, if they show up with that then they will fit right in.  My neighborhood isn't exactly safe.  Besides, as soon as they get out of their car, the neighborhood kids will steal it.  So let them come, I need a good laugh.