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Title: Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: c| Dr. NO on February 07, 2004, 10:47:31 pm The reason i bring this vote to the DAMN forums is that i am a first time voter to the U.S.. I feel a strong need to get involved after seeing how bad the Bush administration handled the presidency and would like to see where people are looking for the 2004 vote registered or not.
Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: BTs_GhostSniper on February 07, 2004, 11:04:10 pm The reason i bring this vote to the DAMN forums is that i am a first time voter to the U.S.. I feel a strong need to get involved after seeing how bad the Bush administration handled the presidency and would like to see where people are looking for the 2004 vote registered or not. How bad the Bush administration handled the presidency? Hell, I'm just glad that we don't still have a pussy in the White House that lets the rest of the world walk all over us. Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: Ace on February 07, 2004, 11:26:31 pm The reason i bring this vote to the DAMN forums is that i am a first time voter to the U.S.. I feel a strong need to get involved after seeing how bad the Bush administration handled the presidency and would like to see where people are looking for the 2004 vote registered or not. No offense, but this is a horrible idea. If you are truly concerned about making your vote worthwhile, do some reading on the various parties and candidates. Find the ones that A) most identify with your values and B) you feel would be most capable as a political leader. After that, you will be informed and capable of properly performing your civic duty of voting. Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: c| Dr. NO on February 07, 2004, 11:31:26 pm How bad the Bush administration handled the presidency? Hell, I'm just glad that we don't still have a pussy in the White House that lets the rest of the world walk all over us. Tell me exactly how the rest of the world would walk all over us? I would say that's a hypocritical statement seeing as we're the only country walking over people. As far as i'm concerned, Bush is a war monger, and look how quick he is to change his tune come election time. Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: c| Dr. NO on February 07, 2004, 11:36:51 pm No offense, but this is a horrible idea. If you are truly concerned about making your vote worthwhile, do some reading on the various parties and candidates. Find the ones that A) most identify with your values and B) you feel would be most capable as a political leader. After that, you will be informed and capable of properly performing your civic duty of voting. Which is exactly what i've already done. All i'm trying to accomplish here is some sight on political view in youth primarily, since this is probably 80% under agers. Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: Ace on February 08, 2004, 12:32:24 am No offense, but this is a horrible idea. If you are truly concerned about making your vote worthwhile, do some reading on the various parties and candidates. Find the ones that A) most identify with your values and B) you feel would be most capable as a political leader. After that, you will be informed and capable of properly performing your civic duty of voting. Which is exactly what i've already done. All i'm trying to accomplish here is some sight on political view in youth primarily, since this is probably 80% under agers. Ahh, my bad. Your first post just came across as using the leanings of the DAMN boards to largely influence your decision. Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: BTs_GhostSniper on February 08, 2004, 01:26:27 am How bad the Bush administration handled the presidency? Hell, I'm just glad that we don't still have a pussy in the White House that lets the rest of the world walk all over us. Tell me exactly how the rest of the world would walk all over us? I would say that's a hypocritical statement seeing as we're the only country walking over people.As far as i'm concerned, Bush is a war monger, and look how quick he is to change his tune come election time. I am talking about how the rest of the world walked all over us politically during the last President's term in office.....aka The United Nations, France, North Korea, and Iraq to name a few. I like the way this President doesn't take any shit from anybody.....you fuck with us, you will suffer the consequences....which is basically the attitude that I hold, too. Militarily the rest of the world doesn't stand a chance against the U.S. but you have to flex those muscles every now and then lest the rest of the world forget :) Peace. -GhostSniper Out. Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: Ssickboy on February 08, 2004, 02:44:37 am All the choices... I dunno. One thing I do know. I doubt I will ever vote republican in my lifetime. And it's unfortunate Dems can't get there shit together. Lack of support is to blame as well. 30% US population participate in elections?
It's also unfortunate that our democracy is practicly forced into a two party system. There are solutions. But no one currently in power is eager to change things any time soon. Ideally, the Green party would blow up into something substantial. Again, no support. A lack of good knowledge/support will continue to rot our democracy. Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: Aramarth on February 08, 2004, 03:16:01 am I picked republican, but I need to throw in a disclaimer. Yes for conservative, but no for Mr. GW Bush.
Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: Ace on February 08, 2004, 03:29:14 am How bad the Bush administration handled the presidency? Hell, I'm just glad that we don't still have a pussy in the White House that lets the rest of the world walk all over us. Tell me exactly how the rest of the world would walk all over us? I would say that's a hypocritical statement seeing as we're the only country walking over people.As far as i'm concerned, Bush is a war monger, and look how quick he is to change his tune come election time. I am talking about how the rest of the world walked all over us politically during the last President's term in office.....aka The United Nations, France, North Korea, and Iraq to name a few. I like the way this President doesn't take any shit from anybody.....you fuck with us, you will suffer the consequences....which is basically the attitude that I hold, too. Militarily the rest of the world doesn't stand a chance against the U.S. but you have to flex those muscles every now and then lest the rest of the world forget :) Peace. -GhostSniper Out. Personally, I haven't had a problem with how the Bush administration has handled foreign policy. I applaud them for going into Afghanistan and Iraq. However, the domestic policy has been absolute shit. You may like the way the President "doesn't take any shit from anybody," but unfortunately the moron realizes that he must bow before the Constitution. With shit like the P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act going around, the Bush adminstration has been chipping away at the civil liberties we Americans love to boast about. I'm sorry, but like hell I would endorse another 4 years under that shit. Give me liberty, or give me death. Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: c| Dr. NO on February 08, 2004, 08:38:45 am I'm seeing the republican party majority vote happening here. So i've done a little digging to see if i can find anything from this party worthy of my vote.
Reeding for the Primary Election, California Official Voter Information Guide under the Republican Party: "Thanks to President Bush's tax relief package, Californians can keep more of their own money to spend, save, and invest.The economy is responding to President Bush's pro-growth economic policies and all signs point to a strong recovery." Truth: Bush claimed that his tax cut would ?reduce tax rates for everyone who pays income tax.? He failed to mention that this ?relief? program would put half of the tax cut's dividends into the hands of our nation's wealthiest 5%, while 8.1 million citizens in the bottom half of the income bracket receive approximately $300 a year. http://www.ctj.org/html/gwbfinal.htm Party Statement: Electing Republicans to office in California: - Ensures excellent and accountable public schools for our children and grandchildren. Truth: Bush is underfunding education. The President cut $200 million from his own No Child Left Behind Act, eliminating crucial educational programs for lower income children and cutting professional training for more than 20,000 teachers. Flawed from its very foundation, No Child Left Behind is based on then-Governor Bush's late-?90s ?Texas Miracle,??a program of standardized testing designed to increase performance and reduce dropout rates--now recognized as a scandalous failure. http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0338/schanberg.php Few more bits of info outside of the statement would be the fact that 3.3 million jobs (93,000 in August of 2003 alone) have been lost since Bush took office--more than the last 11 Presidents combined. (Bureau of Labor Statistics, June 2001-August 2003) Meanwhile, huge corporations are paying fewer taxes than ever: http://www.cbpp.org/10-16-03tax.htm Or that The Bush Administration's regressive environmental policies have lowered cleanliness standards for our air and water while allowing utility companies (many of whom are Bush campaign contributors) to profit off of the weakened regulations. In 2002, the head of the EPA's Office of Regulatory Enforcement resigned, complaining that the agency was ?fighting a White House that seems determined to weaken the rules we are trying to enforce." (CNN, Aug. 22, 2002) The Bush Record on the Environment for 2003: http://www.nrdc.org/bushrecord/2003.asp Also it appears that the Bush Administration has consistently misled the American public about Iraq , most significantly regarding Saddam Hussein's possession of weapons of mass destruction and his ties to al Queda and Osama bin Laden. http://www.fair.org/press-releases/beyond-niger.html *Think Different* Doc's .02? Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: BFG on February 08, 2004, 02:14:51 pm Quote I am talking about how the rest of the world walked all over us politically during the last President's term in office.....aka The United Nations, France, North Korea, and Iraq to name a few.? I like the way this President doesn't take any shit from anybody.....you fuck with us, you will suffer the consequences....which is basically the attitude that I hold, too.? Militarily the rest of the world doesn't stand a chance against the U.S. but you have to flex those muscles every now and then lest the rest of the world forget Dude you scare the freaking shit out of me. No offence but this is why i keep the hell away from amaerica. I hope to god the number of people that have that view is very very small. OF course you have the biggest military etc, havn't you noticed how much money you spend on it!!! watch this and then gimme you responce http://action.truemajority.org/ctt.asp?u=50462&l=275 (http://action.truemajority.org/ctt.asp?u=50462&l=275) Its funny the "You fuck with us, you will suffer the conseuences" sounds just like a dictatorship.. oh oops i was forgetting. The rest of the world politically walked all over the US? When exactly? How exactly? So your responce is to 'flex mucles' and bomb the shit out of someone to make sure everyone stays in their place and your top dog??? Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: Cutter on February 08, 2004, 05:28:31 pm we learned that from england bfg. the "original" evil empire. ;)
Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: Supernatural Pie on February 08, 2004, 07:29:10 pm 30% US population participate in elections? That's kind of blowing it out of proportion, since kids can't participate. However, the % of eligible voters that actually vote is still remarkably low. 52% Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: Brain on February 08, 2004, 07:49:39 pm to sum things up quickly. i guess you could say that i agree with ace on this one. while GW hasn't been THAT bad (i believe we could have put much worse into office) he certainly hasn't earn enough respect in my eyes to warrant me supporting another 4 years of him in office (the whole war in iraq debacle, especially the reason flip flop was major bad mojo for me on this point. as was the patriot act.)
i will be of voting age come this election. and while who i vote for is still up in the air, one thing is certain. it wont be bush Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: kami on February 08, 2004, 08:22:46 pm We had 81% in our last referendum here in Sweden, and that was whether we should get the euro or not. In our last major parliamentary vote we had something like 79%, I think.
Oh and this is what we call a democratic crisis over here. Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: Cossack on February 08, 2004, 09:10:48 pm I'll tell you what you Amis need. You do not need another election, you need a revolution! It was Jefferson that said to us, "We should have a revolution every ten years so the commitment to democracy does not fade."
Of coarse the whole revolution idea is a joke, but the point still stands, you guys need to practice your right to vote! However, if you guys keep getting your rights stripped away from you, you may have no choice. Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: c| Lone-Wolf on February 08, 2004, 09:42:47 pm Barring the whole issue of domestic policy, etc. there is one thing that really gets me about the administration and Iraq. (Afghanistan i didnt necessarily have a problem with, how we're going about rebuilding it i havnt heard enough about so i wont say yay or nay for that)
Before we went into Iraq, and during the days of major combat (before the war was declared "over") we all were hearing the "Iraq has WMD's up the wazoo over there, theyre a threat to our country because they could sell them to terrorists and whatnot" sure, fine, good, great. What DOES get me though, is that after the first week or so of occupation, we still were hearing the WMD business, that it was just a matter of time before we found them. But then it was like, the term "WMD's" just dissapeared from the administration's vocabulary, and we hardly, if ever, hear it these days. Now though, our alleged reason for going into Iraq is because the people of Iraq were opressed, and in need of being freed from Saddam's tyrrany. Im not saying that wanting to help citizens of any nation in similar situations is a bad thing. What i am saying is that im somewhat shocked by our administration totally changing our reasons for going into Iraq from one thing, WMD's, to about the exact opposite, liberty and freedom for the people of Iraq. Lone-Wolf Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: BFG on February 09, 2004, 03:35:09 am Just like Tony Blair in the Uk Lone-wolf... The language has changed and changed, from there being WMD's launched in a 45mins to the fact that there are plans of WMDs, to "ther is evidence of planning of WMD's " to fuck it we are gonna just tell u bullshit and we are right cos he wsa bad"
Its a freaking political joke. But i don't see iraq laughing Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: c| Dr. NO on February 09, 2004, 06:47:27 am Little something for Ghostsniper and his hero Mr. Bush
http://michaelmoore.com/ and http://www.michaelmoore.com/special/deserter.php then http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4209295/ Still going to vote Bush, probably but someday your childern will look back and say, "why did i ever listen to my old man talk politics". ;D Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: c| Dr. NO on February 09, 2004, 07:07:25 am One more thing....if you didn't see this part.
Quote from www.Michaelmoore.com Quote Today, MoveOn.org has put together its response to this issue, and I would love to reprint it here. It lays out all the facts about Bush and the remaining unanswered questions about where he went for many, many months: Here are what appear to be the known facts, laid out recently in considerable detail and documentation by retired pilot and Air National Guard First Lt. Robert A. Rogers, and in a 2003 book, ?The Lies of George W. Bush,? by David Corn. 1. George W. Bush graduated from Yale in 1968 when the war in Vietnam was at its most deadly and the military draft was in effect. Like many of his social class and age, he sought to enter the National Guard, which made Vietnam service unlikely, and fulfill his military obligation. Competition for slots was intense; there was a long waiting list. Bush took the Air Force officer and pilot qualification tests on Jan. 17, 1968, and scored the lowest allowed passing grade on the pilot aptitude portion. 2. He, nevertheless, was sworn in on May 27, 1968, for a six-year commitment. After a few weeks of basic training, Bush received an appointment as a second lieutenant ? a rank usually reserved for those completing four years of ROTC or 18 months active duty service. Bush then went to flight school and trained on the F-102 interceptor fighter jet. Fighter pilots were in great demand in Vietnam at the time, but Bush wound up serving as a ?weekend warrior? in Houston, where his father?s congressional district was centered. A Houston Chronicle story published in 1994, quoted in Corn?s book, has Bush saying: ?I was not prepared to shoot my eardrum out with a shotgun in order to get a deferment. Nor was I willing to go to Canada. So I chose to better myself by learning how to fly airplanes.? 3. Sometime after May 1971, young Lt. Bush stopped participating regularly in Guard activities. According to Texas Air National Guard records, he had fewer than the required flight duty days and was short of the minimum service owed the Guard. Records indicate that Bush never flew after May 1972, despite his expensive training and even though he still owed the National Guard two more years. 4. On May 24, 1972, Bush asked to be transferred to an inactive reserve unit in Alabama, where he also would be working on a Republican senate candidate?s campaign. The request was denied. For months, Bush apparently put in no time at all in Guard service. In August 1972, Bush was grounded -- suspended from flying duties -- for failing to submit to an annual physical exam. (Why wouldn't he take this exam from a doctor?) 5. During his 2000 presidential campaign, Bush?s staff said he recalled doing duty in Alabama and then returning to Houston for still more duty. But the commander of the Montgomery, AL, unit where Bush said he served told the Boston Globe that he had no recollection of Bush ? son of a congressman ? ever reporting, nor are there records, as there should be, supporting Bush?s claim. Asked at a press conference in Alabama on June 23, 2000 what duties he had performed as a Guardsman in that state, Bush said he could not recall, ?but I was there.? 6. In May, June and July, 1973, Bush suddenly started participating in Guard activities back in Houston again ? pulling 36 days at Ellington Air Base in that short period. On Oct. 1, 1973, eight months short of his six-year service obligation and scheduled discharge, Bush apparently was discharged with honors from the Texas Air National Guard (eight months short of his six-year commitment). He then went to Harvard Business School. Documents supporting these reports, released under Freedom of Information Act requests, appear along with Rogers? article on the web at http://democrats.com/display.cfm?id=154. In the absence of full disclosure by the President or his supporters, only the President and perhaps a few family or other close associates know the whole truth. And they?re not talking. Bush was apparently absent without official leave from his assigned military service for as little as seven months (New York Times) or as much as 17 months (Boston Globe) during a time when 500,000 American troops were fighting the Vietnam War. The Army defines a ?deserter? -- also known as a DFR, for ?dropped from rolls? ? as one who is AWOL 31 days or more: www-ari.army.mil/pdf/s51.pdf. Well, there you have it. Someone got some special treatment. And now that special someone believes he has the right to conduct a war -- using other not-so-special people's lives. My friends, I always call it like I see it. I don't pussyfoot around. Sometimes the truth is hard to take. The media conglomerates are too afraid to take this on. I understand. But I'm not. That's my job. And I'll continue to do it. And when I'm wrong, like the thing about Bush pooping his pants, I'll say so. Yours, Michael Moore mmflint@aol.com www.michaelmoore.com ...Ghostsniper you were saying something along the lines of...umm... Quote How bad the Bush administration handled the presidency?? Hell, I'm just glad that we don't still have a pussy in the White House that lets the rest of the world walk all over us. Seems we do have a pussy in office already. Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: BTs_GhostSniper on February 09, 2004, 04:23:34 pm Look, I never argued that being the son of a Congressman doesn't get you special treatment....hell, I served with people in the military that had parents that were 4 Star Generals, Senators, and even one Governor's brat....and they are some of the largest recipients of "special" treatment. But likewise, just because the Guard lets you off to take care of somebody's election campaign and then later lets you make up the service and then still later lets you out of your obligation early to go to Harvard....doesn't mean shit! They do it all the freakin time, moron. I would just like to hear one person....just ONE PERSON.....that has actually served in uniform ON THIS FORUM tell me there is a problem with President Bush's military service record. Because I served my 8 years, and I don't have a bit of problem with it. You guys are listening way to much to all the spin doctors out there and it is really distorting your views....probably has something to do with the fact that MOST of you have not actually lived in the real world (not all, but most), have not served in the military, have not actually voted in an election and then seen that person serve a complete term in office, have not started an actual career (not talking about working minimum wage in high school), and most of you have not completed college and started LIFE. So, my views necessarily differ from the majority of the people on this forum....BUT....and this is a BIG BUT.....my views do tend to follow the MAJORITY of the people that live in the UNITED STATES.
So, take that tag under my picture there to heart....there are more of us than there are of YOU :) Peace. -GhostSniper Out. Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: Cutter on February 09, 2004, 04:36:32 pm lemme tell you kids a little something. michael moore is a fat and disgusting liar. plain and simple. honestly the man reminds me of a bitter gnagging 300 lbs. jewish grandmother with a score to settle. i've seen and heard other people being criticized for getting involved in politics for their own financial gain. well kids, what the hell do you think he's doing it for? to better mankind? i doubt it. check to see if he has any new books or movies coming out before posting his financially driven, lie filled quotes.
ever wonder why michael moore never went after gore for getting his special treatment in the army. gore claims to have been in vietnam, which he was. as a journalist that never saw a single bullet fly during his tour. because of who his father was. just like bush, he had special treatment, just like the sons of most congressmen and senators of the time. and what about bill clinton? where was he during vietnam? it wasn't vietnam. canada maybe? and what about john kerry? he had a very nice miltary record. then shortly after the war he came home and protested it. more important then that is why kerry voted against the first gulf war, voted for the current war in iraq, and voted against the 88 billion dollar war bill. most of which goes to the american soldiers. now he claims he voted for the current iraqi war because bush mislead him and lied to him. do i believe that such a smart man, a united states senator would vote for such an important matter like war without doing his own investigations or at least have the long time belief that his vote was absolutly the right thing to do? hell no. he want's the mans job that's all. plain and simple. moore's job is to create spin, get his target audience (college students and butch lesbians) all riled up and go on the bill maher show to promote his books and movies. why? simple. to make more money. his stops at colleges, bookstores, and mcdonalds all over the nation are all about one thing. in fact when he speaks in favor of a canidate (as he's doing now with clark) he get's paid. paid to show up, paid to speak, and paid to lie. Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: BTs_FahQ2 on February 09, 2004, 08:24:30 pm Tell you the truth I am a staunch republican. But there are some aspects of the Bush presidency that have made me question his administration also. Besides the fact I just can't support a democratic president due to the excelled spending that they historically do on larger Government and Domestic Welfare.
I must say I plan to abstain from this presidency since there is no good candidate yet offered. Cossack had a little truth in revolution. Maybe not to the extreme of social anarchy, but politics in the U.S. has gotten mildly retarded and I am hoping that once the Baby Boomer Generation Dies out we get some fresh new thinking into the white house. Until then we are stuck with a crusty old way of thinking in an era where it is no longer useful. thanks and I hope I helped. Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: tasty on February 09, 2004, 08:37:40 pm I'll be voting Democratic, regardless of the candidate. I simply can't fathom what Bush's supreme court picks would be like. Also, his endorsement of the FMA is in my opinion a new low in terms of policies proposed under his administration.
Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: c| Spetsnaz. on February 09, 2004, 11:59:48 pm The notion of Michael Moore being fiscally motivated is absolutely preposterous. If he was indeed in it for the money I assure you he would not openly criticize the Bush regime. The points brought to light in his movie Bowling for Columbine transcend party lines. No person before him has clarified the underlying truths of this country in the manner that he has. Whether you like him or not is a matter of opinion, but if you dare neglect to fathom the points he brings to light, you are ignoring a tremendous and resounding undertone of what this country is all about.
Military service in time of peace cannot be compared to the experience of combat. I have not been in actual combat, and hope to never experience the horrors that come along with the most primal of mans expressions. Neither has George W. Bush or Clinton. Kerry's been in the shit, and had the balls to come back and protest a war in which he participated, and you must respect him for that. Cutter, Im willing to bet you think the media has a resounding liberal bias. This however is absolutely untrue. If Michael Moore wanted to get rich he would have pursued a different line of work, college kids and butch lesbians are not multi billion dollar corporations. Whatever Michael Moore makes from his work is miniscule compared to the corporate kick backs handed out on a daily basis in Washington. The real money is being made by Defense contractors and Big oil, of whom George W. Bush and many Democrates are pawns of. Try to find a non-millionaire in the Bush Regime. It would be hard, because there isn't one. I have come to the realization that both parties are plagued by the hand of Corporate America. Money is and will always come before humanity. Both Kerry and Bush are Yale Skull and Bones men, will one be better than the other and will real change come about with the election of a new President? I seriously doubt it. I agree with Ghostsniper, in that most Americans are politically ill-informed, historically inept and disengaged from their governing bodies. Are there more illogical people than well informed logical people? Absolutely. We are the ignorant nation with a Military capable of ending all humanity several times over. This combination of ignorance and a tendency towards violence will ultimately have a deplorable effect for everyone in this world. Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: BFG on February 10, 2004, 12:26:08 am Cutter i just don't think you want to live up to the fact that Michael Moore is prepared to say some things about america you just don't like.
Quote well kids, what the hell do you think he's doing it for? to better mankind? i doubt it. Just becasue you could never manage to do that kid dosn't mean that others might not. you really honestly think he went through all that just to make a few bucks? Im sorry i can't keep typing im laughing so hard Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: Ace on February 10, 2004, 01:40:39 am The notion of Michael Moore being fiscally motivated is absolutely preposterous. If he was indeed in it for the money I assure you he would not openly criticize the Bush regime. The points brought to light in his movie Bowling for Columbine transcend party lines. No person before him has clarified the underlying truths of this country in the manner that he has. Whether you like him or not is a matter of opinion, but if you dare neglect to fathom the points he brings to light, you are ignoring a tremendous and resounding undertone of what this country is all about. Military service in time of peace cannot be compared to the experience of combat. I have not been in actual combat, and hope to never experience the horrors that come along with the most primal of mans expressions. Neither has George W. Bush or Clinton. Kerry's been in the shit, and had the balls to come back and protest a war in which he participated, and you must respect him for that. Cutter, Im willing to bet you think the media has a resounding liberal bias. This however is absolutely untrue. If Michael Moore wanted to get rich he would have pursued a different line of work, college kids and butch lesbians are not multi billion dollar corporations. Whatever Michael Moore makes from his work is miniscule compared to the corporate kick backs handed out on a daily basis in Washington. The real money is being made by Defense contractors and Big oil, of whom George W. Bush and many Democrates are pawns of. Try to find a non-millionaire in the Bush Regime. It would be hard, because there isn't one. I have come to the realization that both parties are plagued by the hand of Corporate America. Money is and will always come before humanity. Both Kerry and Bush are Yale Skull and Bones men, will one be better than the other and will real change come about with the election of a new President? I seriously doubt it. I agree with Ghostsniper, in that most Americans are politically ill-informed, historically inept and disengaged from their governing bodies. Are there more illogical people than well informed logical people? Absolutely. We are the ignorant nation with a Military capable of ending all humanity several times over. This combination of ignorance and a tendency towards violence will ultimately have a deplorable effect for everyone in this world. If you are so naive to believe that openly criticizing the Bush adminstration is not a way to get attention (and in this country, attention leads to money), I suggest you watch some television. Try the Daily Show, SNL, or any of major night shows like Letterman and Leno. The Bush adminstration has been an excellent source of material for them because there are a lot of people in this country who hate Bush. Look, I never argued that being the son of a Congressman doesn't get you special treatment....hell, I served with people in the military that had parents that were 4 Star Generals, Senators, and even one Governor's brat....and they are some of the largest recipients of "special" treatment. But likewise, just because the Guard lets you off to take care of somebody's election campaign and then later lets you make up the service and then still later lets you out of your obligation early to go to Harvard....doesn't mean shit! They do it all the freakin time, moron. I would just like to hear one person....just ONE PERSON.....that has actually served in uniform ON THIS FORUM tell me there is a problem with President Bush's military service record. Because I served my 8 years, and I don't have a bit of problem with it. You guys are listening way to much to all the spin doctors out there and it is really distorting your views....probably has something to do with the fact that MOST of you have not actually lived in the real world (not all, but most), have not served in the military, have not actually voted in an election and then seen that person serve a complete term in office, have not started an actual career (not talking about working minimum wage in high school), and most of you have not completed college and started LIFE. So, my views necessarily differ from the majority of the people on this forum....BUT....and this is a BIG BUT.....my views do tend to follow the MAJORITY of the people that live in the UNITED STATES. So, take that tag under my picture there to heart....there are more of us than there are of YOU :) Peace. -GhostSniper Out. We still don't care about all that crap. This is the Internet, the great equalizer. You can go on and on about your life, but you better bring some facts and a good argument next time if you want to persuade people of your point of view. Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: Cutter on February 10, 2004, 01:52:41 am the idea of michael moore being fiscally motivated is preposterous? heh think about that for a second....what does he do? he writes books and makes movies. books and movies that exagerate and sensationalize matters to push his personal agenda. he's not the first to do it and he won't be the last. rush limbaugh is another worthless fat ass that made millions pushin his bullshit around the country. moore is on the left and limbaugh is on the right, thats the only difference. their both scum in my opinion. if you think they do it out of the kindness of their hearts then your silly, just plain silly.
what you guys might not get is that i didn't vote for bush, and infact i voted for clinton for his second term. i fall somewhere in the middle on most subjects. really depends on the canidate to be honest. bush has made some mistakes, just as all men and all presidents do. but what i see coming out of the democratic party in the last year is just disgusting. there are plenty of ways to win an election without having to stoop as low as the democrats have this time around. they should have taken notes from bill clinton. he brought the people together with positive messages and his campains brought out record numbers of voters, especially young voters. voters that felt good about voting for him. bush's military record was heavily scrutinized during the last election and he was still elected. i personally thought his cocaine use was a much bigger issue. but the people that are gonna vote for bush know what he's about and what his plans for the next four years are. they've known for months and months who they were voting for and they feel confident in having bush for another four years. the people voting democratic this year aren't voting for their canidate. they're voting only to get bush out no matter who has to do it. out of blind hatred for bush and the republican party, millions of people would vote for whatever democrat is givin the nomination, even if it had been howard dean, dennis kucinich, or even al sharpton. don't deny it. you would have. i honestly haven't decided yet, but i'm probably going to vote for bush, unless bob knight quits coaching basketball and decides to run. for me it boils down the the canidate, not the party. we've had great democratic presidents and bad ones, great republican presidents and bad ones. al gore was a much stronger opponent for bush in my opinion then any of the guys running against him now. what i see nowadays is the democratic party trying to make bush look like the worst president in history, calling him a liar without any merit. if he were as bad as democrats say he was and he lied about going to war, we wouldn't be talking about an election we'd be talking about an impeachment. after clinton's impeachment hearings don't you think the democrats would have had bush impeached months ago? politics, big business, and religion. funny how evil they all are. even funnier that they're all so closely intertwined. Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: tasty on February 10, 2004, 01:54:41 am Really ghostsniper, I think that the most distorted view is yours. You think that because of your older age and experience in the military that you have more credibility than others on the forum, which is Ace said simply isn't true. The best proof that you have a warped worldview is that you think somehow you are in the majority--perhaps that's true where you're from, but I suggest you come up north sometime to one of the traditional "blue states". Your views would get a lot of strange looks from my parents and the other adults I know, likewise from my friends or professors. The country is a lot more divided, both ideologically and geographically, than you might think.
Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: c| Spetsnaz. on February 10, 2004, 02:04:03 am If you are so naive to believe that openly criticizing the Bush adminstration is not a way to get attention (and in this country, attention leads to money), I suggest you watch some television. Try the Daily Show, SNL, or any of major night shows like Letterman and Leno. The Bush adminstration has been an excellent source of material for them because there are a lot of people in this country who hate Bush. Political satire has existed for as long as we've been free. Presidential administrations always encounter numerous sources of criticism. I don't watch much prime time television, perhaps this is why I'm so naive. Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: c| Dr. NO on February 10, 2004, 04:54:30 am the idea of michael moore being fiscally motivated is preposterous? heh think about that for a second....what does he do? he writes books and makes movies. books and movies that exagerate and sensationalize matters to push his personal agenda. he's not the first to do it and he won't be the last. rush limbaugh is another worthless fat ass that made millions pushin his bullshit around the country. moore is on the left and limbaugh is on the right, thats the only difference. their both scum in my opinion. if you think they do it out of the kindness of their hearts then your silly, just plain silly. what you guys might not get is that i didn't vote for bush, and infact i voted for clinton for his second term. i fall somewhere in the middle on most subjects. really depends on the canidate to be honest. bush has made some mistakes, just as all men and all presidents do. but what i see coming out of the democratic party in the last year is just disgusting. there are plenty of ways to win an election without having to stoop as low as the democrats have this time around. they should have taken notes from bill clinton. he brought the people together with positive messages and his campains brought out record numbers of voters, especially young voters. voters that felt good about voting for him. bush's military record was heavily scrutinized during the last election and he was still elected. i personally thought his cocaine use was a much bigger issue. but the people that are gonna vote for bush know what he's about and what his plans for the next four years are. they've known for months and months who they were voting for and they feel confident in having bush for another four years. the people voting democratic this year aren't voting for their canidate. they're voting only to get bush out no matter who has to do it. out of blind hatred for bush and the republican party, millions of people would vote for whatever democrat is givin the nomination, even if it had been howard dean, dennis kucinich, or even al sharpton. don't deny it. you would have. i honestly haven't decided yet, but i'm probably going to vote for bush, unless bob knight quits coaching basketball and decides to run. for me it boils down the the canidate, not the party. we've had great democratic presidents and bad ones, great republican presidents and bad ones. al gore was a much stronger opponent for bush in my opinion then any of the guys running against him now. what i see nowadays is the democratic party trying to make bush look like the worst president in history, calling him a liar without any merit. if he were as bad as democrats say he was and he lied about going to war, we wouldn't be talking about an election we'd be talking about an impeachment. after clinton's impeachment hearings don't you think the democrats would have had bush impeached months ago? politics, big business, and religion. funny how evil they all are. even funnier that they're all so closely intertwined. Evil is how the media has so obviously shaped you view of this election and of it's candidates, not to mention people in general. Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: c| Dr. NO on February 10, 2004, 06:26:26 am This is worth the read:
http://english.pravda.ru/world/2001/10/11/17732.html Chalmers Johnson if your interested: http://student.cs.ucc.ie/cs1064/jabowen/IPSC/authors/ChalmersJohnson.php Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: Cutter on February 10, 2004, 06:53:23 am i would be in the 20% of "over agers" on the forum as you would put it dr. no. this isn't my first election nor my second. my views weren't formed by recent media or the internet. my beliefs i've held for years, however my opinions of people can be changed by their words and actions. and i happen to have quite an optimistic view of people and the world.
if the media has influenced my political chioces at all it's because i watch the debates, and ive seen what the canidates have to say for themselves. and so far with what ive seen from the democrats i don't think i'll be voting for any of them this time around. you said this will be your first election in america right? well some of them get nasty and some don't. this one looks like there's gonna be a lot of mudslinging. i almost don't want bush to win just so i don't have to listen to another four years of whiners crying about another stolen election. like i said, to me it's the canidate, not the party. most of my views are liberal, but i find myself picking republican canidates more often than not. i voted for clinton when dole was the best the republicans could put forth, and i'd do it again. this time around i just don't feel that any of the democratic canidates have convinced me that they can do a better job than bush has. not only have they not convinced me to vote for them, the way in which the front runners have gone about their campains has probably convinced me more than before that bush should be in office for another four years. Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: cO.Kuza on February 10, 2004, 07:22:26 am The thing here that I can't see is how people can continue to support Bush. He really has done nothing to help this country. All he seems to want to do is blow shit up in other countries. Not to mention the debt that the future generation of americans will have to pay off. I mean this guy really FUCKED us over bad. I think the debt that we have to pay off is just a reminder not to hire retards for world leaders. And really...who the fuck is going to "walk over" the US? That ideal is so typical of most US people, they are so defensive of their own country they are blinded by ignorence for the rest of the world.
Second thing that really ticks me off is this whole abortion thing... This is a womens right to choose wether or not she wants to have a child in her life and men are taking that away from women. I just dont think that he can call abortion "murder" when he is sending people to Iraq to their deaths. I'm just so in awe on how a country that bosts that its the best has a leader who is probably the most least qualified for the job. Perpose of wars: Desert storm-Oil Desert storm2-Oil HELLLOOOOOO Greedy rebulicans = Fucked country and corrupt politicains I hope you Bush followers are happy with the way things turn out in the next century if we last that long...... For you people who dont get wat im saying heres a graphic version :P Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: alaric on February 10, 2004, 07:37:43 am I've got a lot to say about this topic, but I have to be brief right now. Later I will post in more detail.
I hate to do this but I'm gonna have to defend Bush on this one. He wasn't a deserter he wasn't AWOL. He was just taking advantage of the system. Much like many others of his generation did. Much like many of you would I'm sure. This article (http://nationalreview.com/owens/owens200402090833.asp) provides a very fair look at Bush's record. Yes, there are some gaps in his service record. Yes, he did get special treatment. But, No, I'm not surprised, nor do I think it's a major issue. What he's done as President is far more damaging to his chances for re-election than what he did (or didn't do) 35 years ago. Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: Cutter on February 10, 2004, 07:43:25 pm nice article alaric.
Quote John Kerry's frontrunner status among Democratic hopefuls for president has once again, as during the 2000 campaign, placed a spotlight on President Bush's military service during the Vietnam era. It has done so on two levels. First, did Mr. Bush meet all of his obligations as a member of the Texas Air National Guard? The charge here, recycled from 2000, was catapulted into the campaign by the odious Michael Moore, who in the course of endorsing Wesley Clark, called President Bush a "deserter." note the word used to describe michael moore, odious. odious=deserving or causing hatred. highly offensive, disgusting. Quote A recent e-mail from FactCheck.org, the Annenberg Political Fact Check, corrects many of the other falsehoods circulated by MoveOn.org. FactCheck.org points out that these charges have been around since Bush's campaign against Al Gore, "when a Boston Globe story appeared saying the newspaper could find no record of Bush attending required Air National Guard drills for a full year in 1972-73." But an analysis of the facts paints a different picture. The FactCheck.org e-mail cites the news outlets that pursued the story about Bush's Guard service. According to the Globe account, Bush served the equivalent of 21 months on active duty over the next four years, including more than a year of flight training. The Globe quoted Bush's flight instructor, retired Col. Maurice H. Udell, as saying "I would rank him in the top 5 percent of pilots I knew." The Globe also said that "those who trained and flew with Bush...said he was among the best pilots in the 111th Fighter-Interceptor Squadron. In the 22-month period between the end of his flight training and his move to Alabama, Bush logged numerous hours of duty, well above the minimum requirements for so-called 'weekend warriors.'" uh oh looks like somebody has been doing a little exagerating and sensationalizing to help get their canidate elected. or rather to get bush out of office. it didn't work four years ago, they're trying it again, and it doesn't look like it's gonna help them this time around either. shame michael moore and moveon.org, shame. Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: BTs_FahQ2 on February 10, 2004, 08:15:28 pm I would think that by now most people would have realized here in these forums that there is a long standing belief that you never argue politics and religion. Most of the time it gets you as far as a square wheel and heated as hell. I know progress can be made through debate, but you first have to work with people with open minds. Most of the time, this place is stuffed with the I am right you are wrong complex supported by a link of some news some far off place. In fact, these days with the abundance of news and the lack of credentials, cough* NY Times* cough, just do what's morally best for you. Don't worry about the other guy, that is until he goes on your property, then you shoot him.
thank you, no charge. Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: Brain on February 10, 2004, 08:27:19 pm so does that mean if i call you odious or bigoted or retarded, does that make it true? if i call alaric a liar, does that make it true? if i call rapid a flaming inbred homosexual does that make it true?
if so, i've gained incredible cosmic power and will be running for the office of God next week. VOTE FOR BRAIN! i'm not insulting you (or anyone else) but i'm trying to make a point. back up such statements if you want to make an argument. all you have done is show that someone dislikes mr. moore. nothing more. nothing less if you really want to make a convincing argument i suggest looking here (http://www.midnightbeach.com/hs/fallacys.html) now, if you'll excuse me. i'm going to go fetch my Aspestos suit. Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: cO.gabe on February 10, 2004, 09:01:38 pm using circular reasoning or an ad hominem isnt gonna convince me of anything brain. ???
Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: Cutter on February 10, 2004, 09:01:49 pm my point was close to yours brain, people quote things off michael moore's website and claim them as true. for every post taken off the internet that is supposedly true, another can be found proving the first wrong. dr. no posted a quote from a page and alaric posted a link disproving dr. no's post. michael moore hated bush with a passion before he was the president, having him as a president for the last four years has only infuriated his hate for bush. if your going to make an arguement against bush, using michael moore quotes is not the most convincing way to do so. the thing that gets me going is that people like moore call the president a deserter, a liar, and compare him to hitler and get all the kids to follow along and repeat what he says without investigating all the facts. then when they realize they were wrong they get all bitchy and try their hardest to find something else to whine about.
Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: Brain on February 10, 2004, 10:22:58 pm i was mimicking cutter's post in an effort to show that he was guilty of what you have accused me of.
on a side note. those are the wrong fallacies to accuse me of. while circular reasoning looks like what i committed. it isn't because what i am stating is that if i can change the truth of the world simply through my force of will and words, than do i not have the same ability as God to alter the universe as i see fit? as for argumentum ad hominem. i specifically said i wasn't attacking anybody i was attacking the fact that simply making a statement does not make it true. as for cutter's reply. i understand that you feel that mr moore is biased (i say feel because i have no way of judging whether or not he is or not by the contents of one article) however i can also point out countless other's that are biased for bush. there for i would prefer to look at the facts of the situation. it doesn't matter to me wether or not bush was a damn good pilot in someone else's opinion. what matters to me is whether he satisfactorily completed his obligation to our nation. now then, according to Benjamin Disraeli (1804 - 1881) there are 3 types of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics. since any current argument of bush's past obligations will be inevitably be based on the 3rd kind of lie, i prefer to look at what bush has done in the past 4 years as a sufficient indicator of what he will do in the next four years if he is reelected. and frankly i really don't like what i see Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: BTs_GhostSniper on February 10, 2004, 10:33:33 pm i was mimicking cutter's post in an effort to show that he was guilty of what you have accused me of. on a side note. those are the wrong fallacies to accuse me of. while circular reasoning looks like what i committed. it isn't because what i am stating is that if i can change the truth of the world simply through my force of will and words, than do i not have the same ability as God to alter the universe as i see fit? as for argumentum ad hominem. i specifically said i wasn't attacking anybody i was attacking the fact that simply making a statement does not make it true. as for cutter's reply. i understand that you feel that mr moore is biased (i say feel because i have no way of judging whether or not he is or not by the contents of one article) however i can also point out countless other's that are biased for bush. there for i would prefer to look at the facts of the situation. it doesn't matter to me wether or not bush was a damn good pilot in someone else's opinion. what matters to me is whether he satisfactorily completed his obligation to our nation. now then, according to Benjamin Disraeli (1804 - 1881) there are 3 types of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics. since any current argument of bush's past obligations will be inevitably be based on the 3rd kind of lie, i prefer to look at what bush has done in the past 4 years as a sufficient indicator of what he will do in the next four years if he is reelected. and frankly i really don't like what i see lol....you may not like what you see, but get ready, Bush will be re-elected to another term in office. And pretty much the only way Bush will NOT be elected President again come November is by an assassin's bullet.....in which case Colin Powell or Dick Cheney will be elected President in 2004 :) Peace. -GhostSniper Out. Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: c| Spetsnaz. on February 10, 2004, 10:44:08 pm Damn Ghost, having the ability to predict presidential election outcomes months in advance is impressive. You should be a Political Analyst for a major television network, as I'm sure they could use your claravoent insight.
Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: BTs_GhostSniper on February 10, 2004, 11:11:50 pm Damn Ghost, having the ability to predict presidential election outcomes months in advance is impressive. You should be a Political Analyst for a major television network, as I'm sure they could use your claravoent insight. Care to make a small gentleman's wager if you think I'm wrong? :) Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: BTs_Lee.Harvey on February 11, 2004, 12:06:17 am I dont see the choice for no party pref... Im registered as a independant.. not the american independant party..
Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: Brain on February 11, 2004, 01:10:40 am I would much rather cheney or powell take over that oval office than bush again.
Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: tasty on February 11, 2004, 02:19:38 am Ghostsniper, if you paid any attention at all you would realize that Bush's disapproval rating is higher than his approval right now (47 approve, 50 disapprove according to the AP poll of Feb. 6) and that in a head to head poll against the likely democratic nominee (John Kerry) Bush is losing 49-46. Granted, that's no runaway victory for Kerry, but it doesn't really bode well for the incumbent. Historically, the challengers numbers will rise once they actually start campaigning against the incumbent and the nomination ceremony typically yields an additional 4-6 percent boost. Bush has just pissed too many people off. Kerry is a strong candidate, and I think he will win.
Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: c| Spetsnaz. on February 11, 2004, 02:59:46 am Ghost, obviously its smart to place your money on the candidate with a $132 million War chest, but November is a long ways off.
Brain, I'd hafta disagree with you one that one. Powell perhaps, but I'm nearly postive Cheney is the incarnation of the Anitchrist, plus he is a whole hell of a lot more cunning than George W. Bush which makes him even more scary. (http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/graphics/bush_pope.jpg) Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: BTs_GhostSniper on February 11, 2004, 06:13:27 am Ghostsniper, if you paid any attention at all you would realize that Bush's disapproval rating is higher than his approval right now (47 approve, 50 disapprove according to the AP poll of Feb. 6) and that in a head to head poll against the likely democratic nominee (John Kerry) Bush is losing 49-46. Granted, that's no runaway victory for Kerry, but it doesn't really bode well for the incumbent. Historically, the challengers numbers will rise once they actually start campaigning against the incumbent and the nomination ceremony typically yields an additional 4-6 percent boost. Bush has just pissed too many people off. Kerry is a strong candidate, and I think he will win. I have NEVER held much stock in political polls. You can make a poll say anything you want it to simply by cherry picking the group of people that you poll. Happens all the time. This is one of the BASIC lessons I learned from my degree in Political Science. So just because you show me one poll that says his disapproval rating is higher than his approval rating, I can show you another poll that says the exact opposite. Let's just make a small wager and see what happens come election time :) Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: Cossack on February 11, 2004, 07:08:04 am Polls are usually done scientifically that means they take from a whole bunch of people from different demographics. Polls dont mean shit. Look at the Iowa Caucus. Everyone was placing their money on Dean. Now look at him, he has not won one primary and his enitire campaign rests on Wisconsin.
What I do know is that down here in Austin, Texas everyone I meet is very angry at Bush. Thats sorta troubling considering I am in the middle of Texas. Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: |MP|Buccaneer on February 11, 2004, 11:51:14 am That 49 - 46 poll had something like a 5% margin of error, so it means little.
I'll probably end up voting for Ralph Nader if the Green Party's movement to draft him works out. Bush is a cocksucker, plain and simple. Not everything he has done is wrong, but what he's gotten right is either by mistake, for the wrong reasons, or shot down anyway because he's so hated. If I could put Dean and Liberman together, I may get a democrat I liked, cut out about half of what each one says and you have a solid candidate there. Anyway, The Greens, Libertarians and Reformists haven't come close to picking anyone yet, and I sure wont be voting for either Bush or Kerry, so I wait to see. Here is a good web site for looking up info on most of the candidates: http://www.issues2000.org/default.htm Just tells you where they have voted and spoken on issues, which is what I really care about. Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: tasty on February 11, 2004, 10:53:13 pm I'll probably end up voting for Ralph Nader if the Green Party's movement to draft him works out. That won't happen--Nader wanted to run again and the Greens rejected him because if the Democrats lose again and they got blamed, they knew it would be an insurmountable public relations disaster in the future. Nader, although he has an attractive platform and a good record of public service, is being kind of an ass about it. He has set up a committee to explore the possibility of him running as an independent. I've already decided to swallow my pride on this one and vote Democrat, even though the Greens or the Natural Law party would represent my views much more closely. The only Green candidate will likely be David Cobb, a lawyer/activist from Austin, Texas. I have to ask though Bucc, why would you support Lieberman/Dean but not Kerry? I can see Lieberman, but outside him, Sharpton, and Kucinich, the main five candidates had very similar platforms. For all the poll bashers: yes, they do mean shit. I mean sure, they aren't always right, but they are right a vast majority of the time. I don't see how Iowa is a credible example of how polls are wrong--if you look at the Zogby tracking poll, it tracked Kerry and Edwards to first and second place in the week before the election. It wasn't a surprise that Dean got third there. The poll I cited was accurate in illustrating the point I was making, which is that the race is close. It isn't a runaway Bush victory. Also, I somehow don't think that the Associated Press is "cherry picking" their poll samples ghostsniper. It's true that you can find polls that have his approval higher than his disapproval rating, but not by much. If you look at all the major polling institutions in bulk (Gallup 2/1, Fox News 1/22, NYT 1/17, Zogby 1/15, etc) they all have his approval rating falling. That you can rig a poll is obvious, but when the major polling institutions all agree on something, I think you need to face the music. Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: BTs_GhostSniper on February 11, 2004, 11:10:18 pm For all the poll bashers: yes, they do mean shit. I mean sure, they aren't always right, but they are right a vast majority of the time. I don't see how Iowa is a credible example of how polls are wrong--if you look at the Zogby tracking poll, it tracked Kerry and Edwards to first and second place in the week before the election. It wasn't a surprise that Dean got third there. The poll I cited was accurate in illustrating the point I was making, which is that the race is close. It isn't a runaway Bush victory. Also, I somehow don't think that the Associated Press is "cherry picking" their poll samples ghostsniper. It's true that you can find polls that have his approval higher than his disapproval rating, but not by much. If you look at all the major polling institutions in bulk (Gallup 2/1, Fox News 1/22, NYT 1/17, Zogby 1/15, etc) they all have his approval rating falling. That you can rig a poll is obvious, but when the major polling institutions all agree on something, I think you need to face the music. Sure, just like the polls taken in July of 1988 showed Michael Dukakis was 17 POINTS ahead of George H.W. Bush just 4 months before the '88 election. I repeat, you can make a poll say anything you want it to say. And many polling institutions are on the payroll of political parties....therefore they sometimes make things look better for their candidate so as to sway public opinion and hopefully get some extra votes in their favor. That isn't to say that they necessarily make false polls, but they can poll an area that is more in favor of what they want....for instance, by polling an area that you know historically votes Democrat you can show that the Democrat Candidate is doing better than the Republican Candidate. Really, this is elementary Political Science guys. Peace. -GhostSniper Out. Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: Brain on February 11, 2004, 11:28:29 pm Quote ... many polling institutions are on the payroll of political parties... what you're implying is wrong GS. most poling companies are independent. they HAVE to be or else nobody would trust their results. elections are not the only use for these companies. many organizations use them for customer feedback and for market research. it's just that parties retain their services in order to gauge how well their campaign is running. if there is any bias from these results its as a direct result of the method of taking the poll and not on the part of the company (this is due to the impossibility of taking a truly homogeneous sampling of the american population in order to poll, due to the way demographics create a mutually exclusive trend towards sample sizing and sample randomization. in english: if i were to poll at a mall, i'd get different results than if i polled at a gas station. while the gas station poll may be more representative, the sample size will be different than at the mall. the mall results are colored however by the fact that only a limited demographic visits the mall while a much larger demographic visits the gas station) Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: BTs_GhostSniper on February 11, 2004, 11:36:06 pm what you're implying is wrong GS. most poling companies are independent. they HAVE to be or else nobody would trust their results. elections are not the only use for these companies. many organizations use them for customer feedback and for market research. it's just that parties retain their services in order to gauge how well their campaign is running. if there is any bias from these results its as a direct result of the method of taking the poll and not on the part of the company (this is due to the impossibility of taking a truly homogeneous sampling of the american population in order to poll, due to the way demographics create a mutually exclusive trend towards sample sizing and sample randomization. in english: if i were to poll at a mall, i'd get different results than if i polled at a gas station. while the gas station poll may be more representative, the sample size will be different than at the mall. the mall results are colored however by the fact that only a limited demographic visits the mall while a much larger demographic visits the gas station) Sure polling companies are independent. But if you are really so naive as to believe that political parties are not lining the pockets of those companies then you need to change your name to "Brain-Dead". :) Peace. -GhostSniper Out. Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: Brain on February 11, 2004, 11:44:36 pm i said it right in my post gs. unless they remain completely unbiased, they are dead. now, even if they are greedy pigs, any person with 2 brain cells or more is going to realize that it's better not to fudge the numbers and stay in business than to do so and end up out of business. i'll say it one more time. just because a political party hires a poling company DOES NOT mean that the results are biased and unreliable. if they were, nobody would hire that company ever again, because the numbers would be absolutely USELESS.
Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: tasty on February 11, 2004, 11:45:33 pm Sure polling companies are independent. But if you are really so naive as to believe that political parties are not lining the pockets of those companies then you need to change your name to "Brain-Dead". :) Show me evidence of political parties donating money to polling institutions. Political parties have been known to run their own polls, which obviously will have certain biases, but the large polling institutions, like Gallup and AP, remain independent. What you're implying here is nothing more than an unsubstantiated conspiracy theory. It's not "elementary political science", as my poli sci profs have continually lauded the accuracy of Gallup throughout the years. I don't know anything about your Dukakis claim, but I'd want to see evidence of that as well.Peace. -GhostSniper Out. Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: BTs_GhostSniper on February 12, 2004, 12:45:36 am Show me evidence of political parties donating money to polling institutions. Political parties have been known to run their own polls, which obviously will have certain biases, but the large polling institutions, like Gallup and AP, remain independent. What you're implying here is nothing more than an unsubstantiated conspiracy theory. It's not "elementary political science", as my poli sci profs have continually lauded the accuracy of Gallup throughout the years. I don't know anything about your Dukakis claim, but I'd want to see evidence of that as well. I said lining the pockets....you don't really think they are going to do it and let it be on the public record do you? And you want evidence of the Dukakis thing in 1988! Hell son, I fucking LIVED it. I was totally involved in politics during the 1988 election (in fact I was on George Bush's color guard when he campaigned in Biloxi, MS, in 1988). Most of the shit I spout on this forum is stuff that I have seen in person, lived through, or was involved in in some way. I don't get my information from browsing around the internet for a source and then posting crap that I know little to nothing about. If there is a topic on this forum that I leave a post about, it is because I actually know something about it in the REAL WORLD....not from what I've looked up online. Peace. -GhostSniper Out. Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: c| Spetsnaz. on February 12, 2004, 12:50:52 am I said lining the pockets....you don't really think they are going to do it and let it be on the public record do you? See Bush Administration for more info on the subject. Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: BTs_GhostSniper on February 12, 2004, 12:55:42 am Tasty,
Here you little prick.....I found it for your little pwned ass: http://www.poliblogger.com/poliblog/archives/002789.html Go down to the NYT 7/26/88 poll and bite me. -GhostSniper Out. Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: Cossack on February 12, 2004, 01:25:36 am GS you said that poll showed Dukakis ahead seventeen points four months before the election. Four months is a long time in an election and that very well may have been the case. It does not proove anything. The same goes for the poll numbers about Bush and Kerry. The damn convention has not happened yet! Its a long ways away.
Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: kami on February 12, 2004, 01:26:31 am I'm not familiar with the Dukakis v Bush vote really but I heard something about the Bush campaign defaming Dukakis in the end run or something like that and because of it, Bush won. Probably got it wrong but it's what I remember hearing, clear it up for me someone?
Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: |MP|Buccaneer on February 12, 2004, 01:49:24 am That won't happen--Nader wanted to run again and the Greens rejected him because if the Democrats lose again and they got blamed, they knew it would be an insurmountable public relations disaster in the future. Well, not all of the Green party rejected him. They even talk about the movement to draft him back into the spot on the official Green Party site. Maybe he'll end up as the reformist candidate and I'll be real happy =D I've already decided to swallow my pride on this one and vote Democrat That's pretty stupid, when you don't even know who's actually running in any party other than the Republicans. Not that it's likely, but I'd vote for Bush even over Sharpton (one of the few assholes worse than Bush in my view). I have to ask though Bucc, why would you support Lieberman/Dean but not Kerry? I can see Lieberman, but outside him, Sharpton, and Kucinich, the main five candidates had very similar platforms. The few areas where Lieberman really bothers me, like his views on reporations, Dean is more moderate. Dean talks like a liberal, but his decisions have been more moderate in many cases. There's not a Democrat that has my vote. I am holding out hope for someone better coming out in the other parties. Since I've only voted for one major party member in the four presidental elections I've voted in so far, it's not likely that I'll vote for one this year either. Ghost Sniper, just a thought, don't trust any web page that get's it's math this wrong: Reagan v. Mondale (1984) Evenutal results: Reagan 58.8%, Mondale 44.7% 103.5% of the vote between just those two. Hmmm. Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: BTs_GhostSniper on February 12, 2004, 01:58:59 am Ghost Sniper, just a thought, don't trust any web page that get's it's math this wrong: Reagan v. Mondale (1984) Evenutal results: Reagan 58.8%, Mondale 44.7% 103.5% of the vote between just those two. Hmmm. Hey Bucc, I didn't take the 17 point difference from that site. I took it out of my memory from July of 1988. When Tasty called me on it, I went on a search to see if I could back up my argument because I knew my memory on the matter was pretty good. That was just the first place I found that showed the poll I was referring to. So, Tasty=Pwned by GhostSniper so fucking royally. Thank You. -GhostSniper Out. Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: tasty on February 12, 2004, 09:45:06 am Tasty=Pwned by GhostSniper so fucking royally. Bwahaha. You've got an old ass poll of Dukakis and Bush, and as we all know Dukakis lost major votes late in the election on the "Dukakis in a tank" commercial and the Willie Horton issue, as Bush made it seem like he had no defense credentials and wasn't tough on crime. Obviously, a lot can change in an election, that I don't dispute. It's completely feasible that something might happen resulting in a large victory for either Bush or Kerry.Thank You. -GhostSniper Out. However, you did absolutely NOTHING to show that political parties are "lining the pockets" of polling institutions, which is your main claim that I disputed. Like a classical conspiracy theorist, you claim that "I said lining the pockets....you don't really think they are going to do it and let it be on the public record do you? " Ok, so it's so secret that there is no evidence of it. Then what in the hell makes you think that it happens, other than a bizarre assumption on your part? I suppose you believe that Kennedy was shot by a Russian spy and the Bavarian Illuminati run the world too. Until you can provide evidence to back your claim up, it's laughable at best. You showed that Dukakis was up on Bush in the polls. Which proved? that people's opinions change. Nothing more. "So fucking pwnt?"-- gimme a break. Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: Ace on February 12, 2004, 10:30:18 am I'm deleting the next post containing the word "pwn" (or any variation thereof) just on general principles.
Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: BTs_GhostSniper on February 12, 2004, 03:29:23 pm I'm deleting the next post containing the word "pwn" (or any variation thereof) just on general principles. Wow, looks like Ace has pwned the forum! lol Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: Ace on February 12, 2004, 10:20:22 pm Well, it seems Harvey took the fall for you first GS. Better luck next time. :P
Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: alaric on February 12, 2004, 11:24:27 pm On the flip side of the Bush military records controversy, here is an article (http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2004-02-11-bush-guard-usat_x.htm) where a Texas Air National Guard official claims that some of Bush's records were "cleansed" to remove potentially embarrasing information.
Also, it appears that at one point during his service he failed to submit for a flight physical, which is definetly out of the ordinary for a fly-boy. This combined with the reported cleansing of his arrest records seems to indicate that Bush may have been up to something he probably shouldn't have. Are the long standing rumors of GW's cocaine use true? (granted, this is circumstancial evidence, but I'd say it's enough to warrant further investigation, especially for a presidential candidate) Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: |MP|Buccaneer on February 23, 2004, 02:12:39 am That won't happen--Nader wanted to run again and the Greens rejected him because if the Democrats lose again and they got blamed, they knew it would be an insurmountable public relations disaster in the future. Nader, although he has an attractive platform and a good record of public service, is being kind of an ass about it. He has set up a committee to explore the possibility of him running as an independent. I've already decided to swallow my pride on this one and vote Democrat Just wanted to point out that Nader is now running. Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: tasty on February 23, 2004, 03:08:44 am Yep, he's running. As long as Bush doesn't win, this is a very good thing. If he does spoil the election, well, at least he's not doing it as a Green.
LET RALPH DEBATE GODDAMMIT Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: "Sixhits" on February 23, 2004, 08:01:03 am Will some right wing nut just fucking shoot nader? The man is worthless.
Let nader choke on his own cock. Man has no right stepping into such a tight and important race. Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: "Sixhits" on February 23, 2004, 08:01:36 am DAMNIT! the bastard does have a right. >:(
just wish he's sit this one out Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: Ssickboy on February 23, 2004, 10:49:41 am I feel your pain six. He can run, and should run. It will do a few positive things. Help keep the issues on track, and put us all the through the headache of having to choose one of the two candidates we dislike. And wether you like nader or not, he helps point out:
the reasons why by both candidates suck and always do. and why our electoral system has some serious problems and is in drastic/urgent need of reform. Bush wins again? well... life will suck for a majority of us until people get a friggin clue. And the US is in need of a big wake-up call anyway. I thought 9/11 and its aftermath was it. Apparently not. and I will move to Canada and let you guys sort it all out. It's all about the ying and yang. and the US will be in the stages of one big ass Yang years to come. and there's run-ons all over this. dont care. its late. im tired. peace. Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: Mr. Lothario on February 23, 2004, 01:26:37 pm This (http://www.salon.com/comics/knig/2004/02/11/knig/index.html) seems rather apropos for the discussion at hand. Watch the commercial to get the Day Pass to read the comic I'm linking to.
Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: Ssickboy on February 23, 2004, 10:31:18 pm funny comic strip. In order to see the whole thing, you have to get the day pass. It's easy.
...just to continue and clarify a bit on my last post. I understand why everyone is pissed about him running again. Even his supporters wish him to step down. But isn't it messed up that we should have to feel this way? We should have all the options we could possibly want to vote for. We should not ever be discouraging anyone to run for president. We lack good candidates up there. It's gotten to the point where our government (dems and republicans combined) decides who's going to be president. Or at least they have a strong impact on the decission. And that has a huge influence on what's being addressed in our government. Our true needs and concerns are being overlooked and brushed off. Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: kami on February 24, 2004, 01:12:43 am I totally agree with you Six, and Ssick. There's really two sides of it, if he hadn't, the democrats would've possibly had a better chance at winning. On the other hand, now he's promoting democracy as it should be, trying to discredit the two party system is noble enough, still, no one wants Bush to stay...
Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: c| Lone-Wolf on February 24, 2004, 01:21:33 am Yes, things should change. Yes, we should have more options, and yes, it is stupid that the entire political system has basically polarized into two legitimate camps, with the rest being small, easily forgotten factions (yes, there IS a communist part which runs for the presidential office) But it is just how humans work. Maybe BFG can help me out on this one, but there arent that many different parties in the British Parliment, and in earlier European history, there have always been two major sides, and then the little itty bitty guys, an example being during the French Revolution, there was the Mountain, which was where Robspierre came from, and the Girondists, who all got executed and nobody remembers anymore.
Here is the thing though, in any other circumstance, its great that Nader is running, yes the issues need to be addressed, but what everybody on the Democratic/Green/Libertarian, whatever, side of things need to think about, is: In a matchup against the Republican Party (the only party i really know of on the flip side of things) does the Green, or Libertarian party have even a snowball's chance in hell of winning? Yeeeeah i didnt think so. So, if you hypothetically agree that the Gree /Libertarian parties would get murdered by the Republicans, you then look for the next logical party which addresses most of the issues you want addressed, and can really have a shred of hope in winning the election, which leds us to....the Democratic party. In any other race where it wasnt this maddeningly close, or where the sides are not so sharply split, its good to see these views being voiced, but if you want more of your views realized, vote Democratic. If you want hardly any of your views (if any) realized, and the rest of them run over by a steam roller then set on fire, vote Republican. =P Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: alaric on February 24, 2004, 01:34:49 am Situations like this are why I think we should chuck the electoral college and switch to a strait vote for the office of the President. The States already have their say in the house and senate. When do the people as a whole get to voice their say?
Also, we should switch to an instant runoff voting system like the one in use in Austraila. This would allow 3rd party candidates to become more viable while still keeping the "least hated" person in office. As for the nader thing, this article (http://www.corporatemofo.com/stories/040222nader.htm) provides an interesting perspective on the topic. Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: "Sixhits" on February 24, 2004, 01:37:52 am I just find it difficult to reconcile Nader's professed desire to oust Bush and his independant run for the Presidency.
I mean, come now Mr. Nader. Those two desires are in direct conflict. Here's another thing that proves Nader's shit: Where was the fuck during the last FOUR YEARS? Eating crow? Apparently all the evil corporations take four years off, so he will too. And then when the media turns its gluttonous eye to election time ... whoop! Nader's there. Lap dog, he's sheer lap dog. I find little wrong with Nader's professed agenda. It's his true agenda that worries me. That agenda lies hidden behind bullshit and egomanicial whinning. At least with Bush I know why he wants to president - he wants to turn the US into a Christian Saudi Arabia - a United States of Bushia, if you will. But Nader? Nader I have no clue what he really wants. That's even more frightening than manical, messianic fantasy. Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: Ssickboy on February 24, 2004, 07:53:49 am does the Green, or Libertarian party have even a snowball's chance in hell of winning? Yeeeeah i didnt think so. So, if you hypothetically agree that the Gree /Libertarian parties would get murdered by the Republicans, you then look for the next logical party which addresses most of the issues you want addressed, and can really have a shred of hope in winning the election, which leds us to....the Democratic party. This is exactly my point and answers six's post too. This attitude is wrong. I'd rather have another four years of turmoil if it would gaurentee a true revolution of the system. it's messed up that you would have to feel that way wolf. Whether there were two viable parties or not, you should still be able to vote for the one you completely believe in. I don't think Nader is my choice either, but he sure as hell should run, and it shouldn't have this effect on our vote. My highschool was 2/3'rds white over black. It was a straight election for homecoming queen with about 4 candidates. And every year it was the black candidate that won homecoming queen. I don't mind that she won, but I know that she won basicly because she had a solid minority which translated to a solid majority in a messed up election system. If there were run-offs it would have been a different, and more realistic result. We should not have to cheat the system (tell nader to sit down) in order to get short term results. We need a full reform. And I don't think Kerry, Edwards or the Democrats understand this. Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: |MP|Buccaneer on February 24, 2004, 09:00:44 am Anybody that doesn't vote third party, just because they think it's throwing away a vote, just doesn't get it.
Just like all those that don't vote. The reason it doesn't work is because of people like you. If you don't vote, or don't vote for who you think is best, because you think it's a waste, you are perpetuating the bullshit. I've voted third party very often, not because I thought they'd actually win, but if they get enough votes, it will encourage more and better people to step out of the dual party system, encourage letting them debate more. It's not the system that's fucked as much as it's the people that think it can't be made to work that fuck it up. Self fulfilling prophecy. Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: BFG on February 24, 2004, 02:28:06 pm Allways allways the most inportant thing is to actually vote. Democracy can't survive if people actually make use of it! Obviously preferable if you don't vote for the absolute nutters and ape like maniacs who want to destroy the world and your country, but hey. I have and know people who've vote for the lib dems, not becasue we think they are going to win (alas) but becasue they were the best choice out there, and i didn't want to give my vote to the big guns who were talking shit. most inportant thing was thought that we made use of our vote.
Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: "Sixhits" on February 24, 2004, 08:03:32 pm I'd rather have another four years of turmoil if it would gaurentee a true revolution of the system. it's messed up that you would have to feel that way wolf. *and* We need a full reform. And I don't think Kerry, Edwards or the Democrats understand this. First point: I'd rather not have four more years of turmoil even with a gaurenteed revolution in the electoral system. Second point: we don't need a full reform. We need the system to keep diving towards the middle, rather than toward both wings. Nader, like me, is a winger. Kerry and Edwards certainly do understand that American politics need reform. But they also understand that the system can work for them and can work for good. Dean actively tried a reform package and has as a result revolutionized the Dem party. The Dems are hungry again and back on topic. But the key with Dean is he did it within the system cause that's how you get your point across. Nader has failed over and over because he refuses to take the chance that his positions get shot down while in public debate - he's waited until after the Dem nomination was fairly mundane and then reeled out his old evil corporation rehetoric. And I'm all about fucking the evil corps in the ass, but I sincerely want to do it and want to voice those opinions, and I want to catch flak and get shit on by those that disagree cause I want to be PART OF THE DEBATE. Not yelling loudest when no one else has anything more to say. Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: Bushman on February 24, 2004, 11:47:21 pm Hmmm... Balls?
Bushman 8 :-[ Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: cO.Kuza on February 25, 2004, 07:22:15 am PC=Republican computer
Mac=Free thinking libral computer Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: Ace on February 25, 2004, 11:10:56 am PC=Republican computer Mac=Free thinking libral computer Wouldn't "free thinking" mean thinking for yourself and not following stereotypes? Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: BTs_GhostSniper on February 25, 2004, 03:24:08 pm PC=Republican computer Mac=Free thinking libral computer Hmmm.....I've been a Republican pretty much my entire life (and before that I just didn't know what politics were....like before age 10 or so). And I've been using a Macintosh since 1984, when I was also 10 years old (turned 11 later that year). Well, look who brought it up....I mean, hell, he can't even SPELL L-I-B-E-R-A-L. lol Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: tasty on February 25, 2004, 07:46:13 pm PC=Republican computer Mac=Free thinking libral computer Wouldn't "free thinking" mean thinking for yourself and not following stereotypes? Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: "Sixhits" on February 26, 2004, 12:51:26 am PC=Republican computer Mac=Free thinking libral computer Oh Kuza... :-( Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: kami on February 26, 2004, 12:56:33 pm How about choice of computers doesn't have anything to do with politics? :p
(just has to do with brains) Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: cO.gabe on February 26, 2004, 05:10:18 pm Brains has everything to do with politics. The reason Bush isnt a good politician is because he has no brains.
Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: BTs_GhostSniper on February 26, 2004, 05:51:07 pm Brains has everything to do with politics. The reason Bush isnt a good politician is because he has no brains. Look, I don't care who your daddy is or how much political clout he has, you don't get through Yale without brains. You also don't get through UPT without brains. UPT has one of the highest wash-out rates of any training in the U.S. Military because most people can't take all of the technical knowledge involved to pass (UPT Stands for Undergraduate Pilot Training for those of you who don't know). You think that just because somebody stumbles across words and has a hard time expressing themselves verbally that they are automatically idiots. Thinking that way just makes you an idiot. Peace. -GhostSniper Out. Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: c| Dr. NO on February 26, 2004, 07:52:54 pm Brains has everything to do with politics. The reason Bush isnt a good politician is because he has no brains. Look, I don't care who your daddy is or how much political clout he has, you don't get through Yale without brains. You also don't get through UPT without brains. UPT has one of the highest wash-out rates of any training in the U.S. Military because most people can't take all of the technical knowledge involved to pass (UPT Stands for Undergraduate Pilot Training for those of you who don't know). You think that just because somebody stumbles across words and has a hard time expressing themselves verbally that they are automatically idiots. Thinking that way just makes you an idiot. Peace. -GhostSniper Out. Word is there Ghostsniper is that Bush was not the best student, and he just barley got in to flight school. I don't know if everyone has asked you this yet but...seeing as your the only person on this WHOLE forum who seems to LOVE Mr. Bush... What is it exactly you think he's done for us as the people? Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: "Sixhits" on February 26, 2004, 07:57:06 pm You think that just because somebody stumbles across words and has a hard time expressing themselves verbally that they are automatically idiots. Thinking that way just makes you an idiot. Heh. I always just figured he was a noob cause of all the stupid policy decsions, the allienation of our allies, the polarization of the world, the worst recession since the great depression (jobs wise), so on and on. The inablity to speak I chalked up to nervousness. Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: c| Dr. NO on February 26, 2004, 08:00:30 pm You think that just because somebody stumbles across words and has a hard time expressing themselves verbally that they are automatically idiots. Thinking that way just makes you an idiot. Heh. I always just figured he was a noob cause of all the stupid policy decsions, the allienation of our allies, the polarization of the world, the worst recession since the great depression (jobs wise), so on and on. The inablity to speak I chalked up to nervousness. LOLOLOLOL!! Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: BFG on February 26, 2004, 08:31:51 pm Can't possibly imagine where you might have got that inpression of Dubbya Sixhits ;)
Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: BTs_GhostSniper on February 26, 2004, 08:51:54 pm Word is there Ghostsniper is that Bush was not the best student, and he just barley got in to flight school. I don't know if everyone has asked you this yet but...seeing as your the only person on this WHOLE forum who seems to LOVE Mr. Bush... What is it exactly you think he's done for us as the people? Well, I'll just give you ONE thing. Tax Cuts. I don't know about you, but they have really helped me and my family out a BUNCH. And all this BS about the tax cuts being only for the rich is just that, a bunch of BS. I am far from rich. Okay, so you say Bush wasn't the best student and just barely got into flight school. Dude, it still takes some brains to pass college courses at Yale and Harvard, even if just barely. And also, you say he barely got into flight school.....have you ever seen the test? Man, you have got to have brains just to fail it with a 50% average. Then you actually have to pass UPT and earn your wings....which is extremely difficult. Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: BTs_GhostSniper on February 26, 2004, 08:58:04 pm Heh. I always just figured he was a noob cause of all the stupid policy decsions, the allienation of our allies, the polarization of the world, the worst recession since the great depression (jobs wise), so on and on. The inablity to speak I chalked up to nervousness. Stupid policy decisions: they were only stupid to you, I liked most of them. Allienation of our Allies: you are either with us or against us on the War on Terrorism, so either fall in line or get screwed....your choice :) Polarization of the World: if the rest of the world is against us, I'd say we are doing a pretty damn good job. Like I give a shit what France or anybody else thinks about us. Worst Recession since the Great Depression: WTF!!! Wake up and smell the MOTHER FUCKING TWIN TOWERS BURNING YOU IDIOT! You expect the economy to just take what happened on September 11, 2001, and jump through hoops? Man, you are a bigger moron than you make Bush out to be. Peace. -GhostSniper Out. Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: "Sixhits" on February 26, 2004, 09:08:37 pm Well, I'll just give you ONE thing. Tax Cuts. I don't know about you, but they have really helped me and my family out a BUNCH. And all this BS about the tax cuts being only for the rich is just that, a bunch of BS. I am far from rich. Dude, it still takes some brains to pass college courses at Yale and Harvard, even if just barely. Coupla my closest buddies went to Yale. Yale is much like other colleges. To excell is very very hard. To pass is very very easy. And don't underestimate the power of prestige. When my buddies were at Yale Claire Danes (I think it was Dane, may have been another shit hot actress) had her own private room among the seniors in the sweetest dorm. Girl was a freshman. And when it comes down to it Power and Money will get you in the door. That's all you need. Tax cuts. I've seen shit this year. For every person who's feels they got money back there are those who don't. Worse, even though you got cash you could use this year, remember that that cash is coming right out of your daughter's pockets. It's BORROWED money, being given to you. It's borrowed against the future, against your services, against our safety as a nation. The thing is, we'd had three and half bad years under Bush. His sole response to the largest recession since the depression has been a policy of repeated tax cuts targeted at the wealthy. After three and a half years you and I shouldn't need that much help: the fucking problems should have been FIXED by now. Instead, Bush's starving the federal governmen in order to bribe us. So, great, I have a few hundred bucks more, but my roads are shitty, my kid's education will suck, veterans are losing healthcare, active soldiers are getting pay cuts, and our nation debt is climbing, our dollar's value is shrinking .... Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: c| Spetsnaz. on February 27, 2004, 02:17:34 am Yay, miniscule tax cuts now, massive debt and fiscal crisis later! I doubt anyone around here is retired or close to retirement, therefore we're all up shit creek when it comes to Social Security, which will be raped to make up for these tax cuts.
A few facts about the Bush tax cuts; Over the ten-year period, the richest Americans?the best-off one percent?are slated to receive tax cuts totaling almost half a trillion dollars. The $477 billion in tax breaks the Bush administration has targeted to this elite group will average $342,000 each over the decade. By 2010, when (and if) the Bush tax reductions are fully in place, an astonishing 52 percent of the total tax cuts will go to the richest one percent?whose average 2010 income will be $1.5 million. Their tax-cut windfall in that year alone will average $85,000 each. Put another way, of the estimated $234 billion in tax cuts scheduled for the year 2010, $121 billion will go just 1.4 million taxpayers. Although the rich have already received a hefty down payment on their Bush tax cuts?averaging just under $12,000 each this year?80 percent of their windfall is scheduled to come from tax changes that won?t take effect until after this year, mostly from items that phase in after 2005. Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: cO.Kuza on February 27, 2004, 08:50:02 am CUT THE BULLSHIT DEMOS ARE WINNING. PWNT ALL YOU REBUPLCAN FUCKERS
Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: BTs_GhostSniper on February 27, 2004, 03:41:35 pm CUT THE BULLSHIT DEMOS ARE WINNING. PWNT ALL YOU REBUPLCAN FUCKERS Come see me on election day. Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: c| Dr. NO on February 28, 2004, 10:46:07 pm The way things are going to your man Bush right now...i think your going to eat those words...
Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: BTs_GhostSniper on February 29, 2004, 06:27:51 pm The way things are going to your man Bush right now...i think your going to eat those words... Okay, this one is for Dr No and Kuza: Make you a little deal.....if Bush loses come November, I'll buy both of you Premium Membership on GameRanger for a year. If Bush wins, you both have to come on the forum and announce that GhostSniper is the all-knowing, all-powerful, most-wise member of this forum. So, Bush wins and it wont cost you a thing. Bush loses and it costs me $100. I think that's a pretty fair deal. So, Dr No and Kuza: Do you accept my challenge? Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: Ace on February 29, 2004, 08:23:06 pm If Bush wins, you both have to come on the forum and announce that GhostSniper is the all-knowing, all-powerful, most-wise member of this forum. Too bad I would have to delete that on the grounds of being useless spam. :P Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: Cossack on February 29, 2004, 09:56:17 pm Well I dont know about yall but I am gonna do some early voting. Those of you who are of age should join me.
Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: c| Dr. NO on February 29, 2004, 11:24:25 pm Your on Ghostsniper :)
Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: BTs_GhostSniper on March 01, 2004, 03:29:46 pm Your on Ghostsniper :) Well, that's one. What about you, Kuza? Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: cO.Kuza on March 02, 2004, 06:39:04 am The way things are going to your man Bush right now...i think your going to eat those words... Okay, this one is for Dr No and Kuza: Make you a little deal.....if Bush loses come November, I'll buy both of you Premium Membership on GameRanger for a year. If Bush wins, you both have to come on the forum and announce that GhostSniper is the all-knowing, all-powerful, most-wise member of this forum. So, Bush wins and it wont cost you a thing. Bush loses and it costs me $100. I think that's a pretty fair deal. So, Dr No and Kuza: Do you accept my challenge? Bring it Republican...Its on like donkey kong Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: c| Spetsnaz. on March 02, 2004, 08:52:36 pm And in response to your stupid thread, everyone has started a thread like this so get over it. Go read political papers and essay's. Oh yeah, DIE BUSH, DIE!!! ::) Nice way to attract Feds to the forum.***Disavows all knowledge Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: "Sixhits" on March 03, 2004, 02:46:54 am It's pretty much offical: Kerry is gonna be the nominated dude.
Bush sure thinks so: http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040303/D812JD1O0.html <<< WASHINGTON (AP) - President Bush telephoned John Kerry on Tuesday night to congratulate him on wrapping up the Democratic presidential nomination, and said he looked forward to a "spirited contest." "I'm thinking about you," Bush was quoted as saying. >>> I'm thinking of you. Huh? Does Bush want to reach out and hold Kerry? Is Bush, like, gay? Or is he trying to sound sinister? On both fronts he's succeeded. What a wacko. This is almost as good as his "you have a pretty face" line to the Canadian premiere's PR guy. Title: Re:Pre Vote Poll 2004 Post by: "Sixhits" on March 03, 2004, 03:10:48 am Here's a link for Ghostsniper. It goes after the defense budget and a few interesting points, all in a comicbook like flash format!
I look forward to your rebulk of it's "cookie wisdom". http://ww11.e-tractions.com/truemajority/servlet/Gamelet;jsessionid=0D6B52C26FF18F09FA0FBD1F276F1C5F?req=BjEzO6PaM3E3tzM6bjEFtXM6B3Ef%2BWC3Q%2FmabjF9b9Z1ozMzGjEft2MzMjEEt3BaB3Ef%2Ba5ZpiFkv4x%3D (http://ww11.e-tractions.com/truemajority/servlet/Gamelet;jsessionid=0D6B52C26FF18F09FA0FBD1F276F1C5F?req=BjEzO6PaM3E3tzM6bjEFtXM6B3Ef%2BWC3Q%2FmabjF9b9Z1ozMzGjEft2MzMjEEt3BaB3Ef%2Ba5ZpiFkv4x%3D) |