*DAMN R6 Forum

Ive just recieved this in my inbox... anyone else got it allready?



ooooh sounds interesting....  ;)

Yeah, it does sound interesting, wonder how he's going to implement it...

Now all we need are GameRanger Headset Communicators and it will be just like Xbox Live!  ;D

lots of people (including myself) have been talking about not renewing premium this year. scott has now givin us a very good reason to. this should be sweet. may even bring a spark back to some older games. all the arguements about who truly owns at a game can now be answered.
i have a question though, i know it's basiclly not worth it for scott to do anything for os9 (as he's stated in the past). however, since he stated all games (except co-op) will be involved in this new system, will os9 users (the rs and r6 ppl) be left out in the cold? or will this truly be an "all games" deal?

lol @ vipe. I sure hope Evill does a nice job with this. I doubt that this update could be botched like the last major feature (voice chat) because it's something all new that mac users haven't experienced yet, should make for some fun competition.

So u premium guys havn't got this email yet??

Well i was among the guys who was basically not gonna renew premium.. should this appear though and (as we get to test it out first) actually work well then i might double take and feel the money was worth it though...
This year on premium though... big mistake

I dunno, im skeptical.  Granted, im not a premium, and i have no intention to be, but looking at what Evill said, and what ive seen from other games that try to have rankings, im not so sure about how its going to work.  I mean, incorperating scoring tables for -EVERY- game that is supported on GR (minus the co-ops)  is going to be so immensely time consuming it isnt even funny.  Since every game works and is played differently, you would have to come up with a different kind of table for each one, plus a whole lot of extra stuff so that every game saves the desired information, then sends it to the storage server so it can be tabulated and posted.  
So then how is it going to be shown?  Website? From my experiences with the UT ranking system that didnt work so well, but mebe scott could figure out a better way.  Who knows, but im gonna go play Halo =)

I've recieved this email BFG.  And I like many others don't plan on renewing.  

Tfrom what vell said in a main chat.... the host of the games can select if the games will count on the laddrs or not... but only premium players will get ranked.


seems like it will basicaly be a stat ladder

I do plan on renewing, I think we must support Evill in his future working on GR.

Fuk Evill and his wallet and his gay non-features trying to entice savvy people like us into paying him 50 bucks for lame non-value-added hype.  I would pay 20 bucks a year to not have to hear him cheerlead fluff and to just play.

Dumbass non premiums like you plague this community.

/me Looks for a moderator to delete the useless coward's uninformed prattle.  

Splinter, if you're just in it for the features, then perhaps premium isn't worth it. I'll leave it at perhaps.

Let's take a look at what you get for 50 bucks:

A tracker ( the new feature ), probably much like a more comparison based version of the AA:O tracker.

In game voice chat: while rarely used as the only voice chat option, I for one have found this very useful from time to time.

Buddy List groups: I would love to have had this back when I was always searching for CBs, and I look forward to getting to use it for finding RvS CBs this upcoming season. It lets your organize clans, friends, everything. While some may regard this as just a useful little thing, but relativly useless, this alone is worth a lot of that money to me.

Chat rooms: About 3 years ago, a Battle League rules meeting was scheduled, however, because Bondo was a moderator, and refused to install Rogue Spear, there was no way to hold this meeting, seeing as there was no game that all the participants held in common. I think the end result was everyone downloading Rogue Spear Demo. Again, a helpful little feature, and very nice for clan leaders.

The ability to bitch about things: I didn't buy premium until August - about 6 months after it came out. In this time, I felt that I didn't really have the right to complain about anything. I wasn't giving him anything, so why should he feel compelled to listen to what I want?

Now let's take a look at the price, 50 bucks. Sitting in my games folder right now are: MOH:AA, MOH:SH, GHR, RvS, RS, R6, UT2003, UT, RTCW and JA. That's $530 worth of games ( Spearhead's only 30 bucks ).

Probably 97% of my gaming time over the past 3 or so years has been spent RS and RvS on GameRanger - several thousand hours of gaming. I'd say probably 2 thousand, 500 hours.

Now, for the sake of an example, we'll say that ALL I do on GR is play games. That comes out to 2 cents an hour. I look to my left. There are 2 quarters, 1 nickel, 4 pennies, and a dime sitting on the table. 59 cents. That's 29.5 hours of gaming on GameRanger. Now: *Flick, flick, flick, flick*.

That's how much I care about 59 cents. You can undoubtably find that amount of money sitting around the hall of your school, in 2 minutes. 59 cents is nothing, but what can it buy? 29.5 hours of gaming on GameRanger.

One last example: My computer origonally costed just under 3,100 dollars ( extra battery with it ), add a 90$ mouse, 2, 2 dollar mouse pads, a $300 airport base station, 2 112 dollar 512MB sticks of RAM, $40 headphones, 4 $200 external HDs, a 79$ replacement power cord, and the 20$ yearbook I use as a supporter for the mouse pads. Add that all up, and you get $4,661.

Add that to the 50+ DVDs around me, the several thousands of dollars worth of applications I have on here, the DVD-RWs, CD-RWs, Routers and Switches, and you're talking almost 10,000 bucks.

Ok, for anyone who's still with me. . . What this boils down to is this: Anyone who's whinning about the cost of premium, pull your head out of your ass and take a look around you.

***Snipe looks around him.

My computer originally cost 1,000 dollars ( Ebay/CD-RW ), add a 40$ mouse, 1, 10 dollar mouse pad with 2 wrist supports, a $300 airport base station that I personally didn't buy, 1 80 dollar 512MB stick of RAM, $40 headphones which were a gift, 1 $200 external HD which was a gift, and a slideout drawer with a plank of wood (actually, extremely convenient...more than it sounds) I use as a place to put the mouse pads. Add that all up, and you get $1,430.

Add that to the 0 DVDs around me, the several thousands of dollars worth of applications I have on here which my parents bought (graphic designers), the lack of DVD-RWs (Cause I was a cheap bastard who got the CD-RW drive from ebay), a CD-RW here and there, no routers or switches, and you're talking almost 1,500 bucks.

So lets see.... I'm looking to buy a G5... a very low end model (but i'll go for the dvd drive this time... :) ) possibly something in apple's "special deals" section, or an education discount while pulling out the superdrive. Either way, it'll end up costing me about 1400. OH! Then I have to buy a moniter. I'll go for a low-end one of those, too... 1500? 1600? The point is, 50$ goes a long way towards that, and once I have my G5, and summer comes around, and I get a job, then maybe I can start giving my money away as charity. Until then, I'm sorry, but I simply cannot afford Premium. And by afford, I don't mean I don't have the money, I mean I won't have the money to spend on an investment of greater value to me.

Kid if thats the most intellegent thing you can add to a conversation don't bother... And you refer to yourself as savvy??

Vipe doesnt this sound like GR is trying to turn into XboX Live? After thinking about it and if evill sees this i wanna say one thing. If there were more people that had macs and played the games i would more then likely buy premium. But the straight fact that i cant play on the most popular server for RvS there is no point in buying something i dont use cause im restricted. Sounds like a good idea with the stats thing, im eager to hear how it works, but as i said before, im in no rush to buy premium because my gaming experiance is limited as is on GR. I cant wait for CoD because i can play with PC's, more servers, and less mac people that are out to ruin other's fun. GL with GR Evill and others, enjoy the update premiums.

Soon enough, there will be lots of servers up, I hope. I just wish i knew how many GhR kills i have, i'll have to start over damnit.

I like having my head in my ass, Typhy, it keeps me warm.

To me, the current GR feature set (tracker included) just isn't worth the $50.  

Voice chat: I have never used it, and infact I have the option turned off for 2 reasons.  1) It screws up my microphone, it cuts the volume setting I have in my system prefs in half, thereby making no one able to hear me. 2) If I want to talk with you, then I will call you or allow you to call me.  I like the option of keeping the annoying people out of my ear.

Grouped Buddy lists: nice but i could live without.

Chat rooms: I see how this can be useful to get the clan together when people don't all have the same games installed, but lately c| has been using iChat for group and private discussions.  And much more importantly, we don't have ban happy admins booting you in iChat.

The only real benefit premium has to me is that I don't have to jump through hoops to get a piece of voice comm software to run correctly.

All that being said, I would pay $9.95 a year for non-premium in a second. Aside from it's facist tendencies, overall GR a decent program. I use it almost daily, and I definitley like to support applications that I use a lot.

If the feature set became something that was worth the $50 fee to me, then I of course would keep paying.  And it is very possible that in the future it will.  But seeing how most of the chat i do, be it voice or text, is done in other applications, gameranger is basically just a game finder.  Maybe i'd pay a one time $50 fee for a game finder, but not yearly.

The way I've seen it is, if your parents will pay for it for you, then you support it, but if it's your hard-earned money, you don't want to. I know for a fact that I will renew premium.

Hey Have you reilized that some people just might not have enough money to spend just to play games with a bold name or that their parents just don't give a shit.  Have you taken into consideration that the creater of GR just wants money to be able to provide stuff that should be availible to everybody.  Maybe I don't wan't to waste 50 dollars on a fucking bold name. So plz tell me how this makes me a Dumbass you dumbass.

I'm sorry Scrach, i wasn't referring to those people, I was refering to this guy(below quote). I know how hard it can be to convince your parents to pay for Premium when you can't afford it. In no way was that directed towards people like you.

Scratch, GR should be avalible to everyone, eh? Then I suppose that Evill, like before, shoudl be paying for the entire thing out of his own pocket? Where should he get the money?

Wait a sec, why am I even trying to reason with a stupid piece of ignorant shit like yourself? If you think that GR should be for everyone, and that Scott is greedy for wanting to own a house and eat, then why don't you go create your own GR? You pay for the servers. You spend hundreds of hours working on it. Then give it away to tons of assholes.

To answer your question, you're a dumbass by thinking that he's greedy for wanting to own a house and feed his family. You're a dumbass for saying that GR should be avalible to everyone, and you're a dumbass dumbass dumbass dumbass dumbass dumbass dumbass dumbass for being stupid enough not to be able to conclude this on your own.

Thx for understanding because people like me (13 years of age) Cant afford premium and have to save up all my money for 2 years just to buy a computer of my own.  (G3 233) powerbook.  And have to hassle with 2 other brothers just to even get a turn at using the familly comp at all.  (G4 400).  Maybe when I get an income next year I will try to pay for primium but for now I have to stay with an un bolded name and diguise KDX. Thank you for understanding.

The world isn't filled with as many mindless assholes as I once thought it was.  *plesent sigh :)

Guys, lets not let this turn into a flame war, lets get back on topic, give your thoughts about this new update.

Didn't see you there typhy.  This is what I mean.  I think that he should definatly deserve a house an food and all those things you mentioned.  But I think the way he is going about making his money is the wrong way.  I think the real reson that I have a grudge on Evill is because he made the program block KDX.  I understand he needs money and food and stuff but stuff like this should be for every body.  Gezz Can you understand why a youngin like me whould feel vulnerable when all they wan't to do is play games and now they have to pay 50 dollars out of their god dam "PIGGY BANK" just to have the same privilages that you had before.  I understand your possition and I don't think it is unresonable but gezz have some fucking compassion you were a young nerd once with no money just wanting to play computer games with his freind.  

O right the update lol.

I think it would be a good idea the only thing is if he wanted to keep a ladder I think he would have to have his own servers for each game because I don't see how he could monitor the stats of games on other peoples servers.  

1. would u want to work and spend time on something and then give it out for free? he made it for free for over 3 years already and since there is Premium available he introduced even more features and improvements, of course only for the people who honour his work and pay. he is doing GameRanger for his living and it?s normal that he wants to earn money for his work, wouldn?t u want the same?
2. its not only the bold name. did u ever read this: www.gameranger.com/premium (http://www.gameranger.com/premium)? if not, do so.

i personally am very satisfied with the features Premium is providing, i?ll definitely go for another year. 8)


EDIT: jeez... while i was writing this 4 other answers came, lol.

to the new update: i can?t await to start playing for my stats. i?m very curious how it?ll work and how he?s going to make the team ladders... will there be rules like here in the *DAMN BL? won?t there be a need for BL admins too then, or will Evill do it all on his own?

I think having Gameranger around helps the longevity of Mac gaming.  Saying that, it should ideally be a service that Apple supplies to keep current mac gamers and encourage more to switch over to the nice Mac community.  Imagine if it were an apple department offering a game service for 50$.  Would you be more willing to shell out 50$.  I would.  

So why isn't Apple interested in this?  If they were I'd imagine they would have jumped on it already.  Do you think GR would have evolved as much as it has already or would it be even better with less privacy intrusions?

I'm reluctant to renew my premium with Kevill because it seems like he's interested in monopolizing, ideology controlling, and making a larger profit for himself.  I don't like the idea of encouraging my gaming enjoyment to be any more privatized.  It is better than nothing, but by supporting him that's maybe all we'll ever have as an option... nothing.   My point is... As mac gamers, if we were to encourage anything it should be a more public, less privately intrusive, broadly run game service.  If anyone from Apple is reading this, please make it happen!

And yes, I do understand that Apple is just another private company. But their general ideologies are different in regards to business.  I also see an Apple run service being better supported, much cheaper (if not free like itunes), and an added incentive for new gamers (In effect increasing the player base).  Pipe dream?

since  Evill blocked netfone and kdx voice tools  (even if there are tricks to bypass it)
i not gona send him any money and renew

i dislike his "microsoft ways"

hope the guys building the next "game ranger look like" are doing a good job

I am disagreeing with the apple thing. I think yeah it would be cool to have a mac come with an online gaming "app" either gameranger or another, but for apple to do one, no. Do you think a company as big as Apple would like people to talk about piracy and porn links pasted to kids?, can you imagine the amount of crap they would get, nevermind how monitored it would be.

This argument of what scott is doing right or wrongly will be just the same argument with another service, what i mean is, some people will never be happy, and can never be content with what you have.

As for evill doing this ladder, gunna settle a lot of arguments to see who is better :D

For those of you who were not in the B&G when Evill posted this.

(http://www.planetrainbowsix.com/monoman/images/rank.jpg)

Wow, looks nice. Can i get a Aaaaamen - hallelluujaH

After reading this thread ive only got one question. How come apple has not givin Kevill support for keeping GR up? GR is the only popular mac gaming service out there and im wondering why Kevill hasnt asked Apple for money in exchange for endorsement. Anyone have an answer to this? I mean hell, the only reason why people bought RvS was because of GR. Since it was mac vs mac only if GR wasnt around there would be no real easy way to play against and/or get banned by eachother. So what im saying is, how come Kevill doesnt get help from Apple to keep GR up and running?

Good question Rebs, but it also goes the other way around, without game develpers and publishers supplying games and other stuff for GameRanger, how is GR gonna have anything to play on it?

GR could become a mac chat service kinda like AOL but for macs only. I know it can go the other way around but what im sayin is that why doesnt Apple shell out some dough so people continue to buy their shitty ports?

Just out of curiosity, what the fuck are you talking about?

I know what you're saying rebel.  i'd like to know too.

To: pathetic assholes

From: SK

Dear Noobs

        To all of the people who have used this service for like 3 months, i dont expect you to shell out a measly 50 dollars.  But to the people who have used this for a while, you should definatly buy it.  Hes shelling out money out of his pocket for you stupid nerds to enjoy your gaming.  You whine because you dont have 50 bucks, shovel 10 ppls driveways and shut up.  I got a job and i havent plenty of money, and all you poor asses should do something about it or reek the benifets of wellfare.

Your mac users, your computers are expensive, buy the shit and shut up and dont cry that hes not giving you features

I would like to address a few things here.

First off, has Scott Kevill ever disclosed the actual amount of money he spends/spent on GameRanger?  Do we know how much money he makes from advertisements?  Maybe he is independently wealthy and has nothing better to do but GR.  The facts are that we do not know his financial circumstances.  Therefore, we should avoid making assumptions.  For those of you who throw blame towards the non-premiums for not supporting GR, maybe GR does not need financial support from people who use it.  Double check that, I said maybe.  For all we know, Scott Kevill is getting support from the developers of the games that are hosted through a variety of means.  I have made no assumptions here, but I have also used only the facts that we know.

I personally will not renew my premium account, but that's many months from now, and it's mainly due to the fact that I do not use GR any longer.  At the time of my premium membership, which is still current, I felt that premium was more of a status symbol.  All of the features that are offered are only features.  None of them are required for playing the games.  I have been playing a ton of America's Army lately and enjoy these facts.  AA was free.  AOTracker, which tracks your stats on registered servers, is also free, as buggy as it is sometimes.  Voice communication is also free (for PC users).  There is a proactive anti-cheat plugin that actually prevents many cheats (PunkBuster).

GameRanger is free.  It does not offer any type of free voice communication, nor any Windows or Linux support.  It does have anti-cheat software, but merely a plug-in, but we all know very well it can be "worked around".  Also, I have no clue about this, but how many of the other games on GR have this anti-cheat pugin?

The bottom line is this:  Scott Kevill cannot put his business into the hands of teenagers with monetary limits, nor can he put his business into the hands of $50 donations here and there.  It is his business , and it is soley up to him to find the proper means of supporting that business.  If GR had to shut down due to the lack of financial stability, the users of GameRanger cannot, and should not, be blamed.  Example:  I open a store that sells a product that I feel everyone can use and benefit from, and that is not found anywhere else.  If I offer my product free to my customers, but ask for donations, then I should know I will have to rely on outside, financial help.  If outside help cannot be found, then should I blame my customers for my downfall?  The circumstances regarding GR are close to a bait and switch scheme of offering something, but then taking it away, or switching what can be taken, all for a monetary committment.  NetFone was able to be used, but when GR Voice Chat came out, it was taken away, but GR Voice Chat could be bought for $50.  I'm not saying it is exactly like a bait and switch, but it does closely resemble that.

So what now?  Well, I feel that I can find enjoyment playing other games that are Windows and Linux compatible.  My PC friends who play GhR can no longer play with my Mac friends via GameRanger.  Scott Kevill has chosen to close his doors to a population that currently owns 92% of the gaming market.  If GR were to open it's doors to more than Mac users, more games, and more features, and then charged in smaller increments for smaller periods of time, he could be quite successful, if he isn't already.  But, that is merely an assumption since I do not know the inner workings of GR or Scott Kevill, and I doubt that many of us do.

Well, we all think we know what GR could be and what it is, but honestly, I do not think any of us really have a true perspective of Scott Kevill and his business strategies, or lack thereof in some of your views.  In defense of the non-premium users of GR, the only thing they miss out on is the hassle free voice communication that is built into GR, and that's only if you have a microphone in the first place.  To the premiums users, if people don't want to pay, then who cares?  You paid, and you should feel good about supporting something you feel needs to thrive and be supported.  If others do not share that view, then let them be.  You have to remember that those of us who bought premium did so because we wanted to, and because we had the means.  No one was forced to buy it, and no one went into bankruptcy because of it (maybe SignTist :o ).  Also, I believe that many of the players out there are at the mercy of their parents.  I'm sure most parents gave their kids a hassle about buying a $40-$50 game in the first place.  I wonder how much hassle they received when they wanted their named bolded in an Internet chat room that only took them away from their studies?

I recently reformatted my hard drive and have not reinstalled GR.  Why? Well, it currently does not offer support to the games that I enjoy playing, and for the games that I do play, it does not offer certain things that I would like.  I liked being tracked, but GR does not offer this (until it comes out, it's not offered).  I like being able to communicate vocally to anyone on a server, but GR does not offer this in the games that it supports.  I like being able to have one user on my computer running for my girlfriend or sister while I play on my own user via fast user switching, but GR does not allow for this.  I like being able to play with friends who are not using a Mac computer, but GR has disabled this feature in games where it was allowed before.  In my own view, I feel that GR offers something at first, but right after it offers a new feature, an old one is taken away, and maybe not from everyone, but perhaps just from the people who are not able to support with $50 USD.

I have no advice for Scott Kevill, and I have no advice for any of you out there on this forum.  Well, maybe I have one bit of advice out there for you, the readers.  Many of you feel that Scott Kevill could be raking the money in, hand over fist.  Perhaps some of you should offer your help in expanding GR if you truly feel this is a valuable service.  I know that many of you out there have the knowledge to do this stuff, and some of you have the resources as well.  Some of you probbaly have the business "know how" that could launch GR past all other services that it resembles.  Basically, unless you plan on being part of the solution to this problem that many of you insist exists, those of you who are only complaining and adding to the problem should refrain from doing so.  If you can't contribute anything, then be thankful for what is given to you.  Beggers cannot be choosers.

.::|N| Noto

I think thats the best post ive ever read on these forums.  Amen for sanity.

And that post is written by the man that thinks the st. louis arch is in seattle  ;)

LOL  What the fuck are you talking about?? LOL.

I've been to the Arch, so i think I know where it is ;)

I think you're thinking of Diesel.  He still thinks California is for the Mexicans and that women aren't allowed to drive.

Joka you little cock tease, you.  :D

.::|N| Noto

*wonders if its too late to remove the post*  :o

lol, ohyea...it was the pittsburgh fucker   ;D

sry noto keep mixing you two handsome hunks  :)

I'm not going to bother reading through all that, I did read the first sentence though and all I've got to say to that is what the fuck does it matter if he's independently wealthy or not? Those banners are NOT going to give him much cash and what, you don't think he's worth the money for almost 5 years of developing? It doesn't matter if he's got a million dollars on his bank account or not, he's still worth it just as any working man is worth his paycheck.

     Kami, if you don't read, you don't comment. Period.

amen to that reverand.

I concur.  Kami, I never stated any facts about Scott Kevill's financial situation.  If you would have at least finished the first paragraph you would have lessened the pain that the rest of us endured while reading your ineloquent assumption.

Thanks for your contribution to the topic at hand.  :P

.::|N| Noto

Same here.
I agree completely if he need charity then he should rely on mac gamers and macgamers alone.  He won't make that much money.  If this was a cross platform thing "PC, Mac, Linux" This guy would be in the money. It is him and him alone that can control the financial out come of GR not the users just because there aren't enough playing and there aren't enought even willing to pay.  

Amen .::|N| Noto  ......... Amen

Man this topic is full of holy spirit.

O yah in that visual representaion post of the ranking system did anyone notice that the dummy had a better ranking then Evill.
 lol that might explain it all ;D

First off, nice to read a well composed post around here. Haven't read anything that complete since the early days of the Combat Mission forums @ battlefront.com

About the PC joiners being disabled in GR. I think this is what limits GR. There is no problem with PC joiners being able to join games where they are expected. This should definetly IMO at least be an option for premium hosted rooms.

Now that I think of it I'm emailing Evill.

Yes


But you are making an assumption.  You are assuming that Evill has lied about this.  He has discussed both his financial status and how much advertisements cost.  We all also saw how many months he went without any advertisers with the .com crash.


Wrong Noto.  You have not used all the facts we know.  All the facts that you know maybe.  


I think you are 100% wrong here Noto.  First, your example.  Want to use a fitting analogy, use the demo version of Ghost Recon maybe.  There are two version of Ghost Recon, one you can have for free that is limited, and one that you have to pay for which is not.  The one that is not limited costs you $50 (wow, that was correct when GhR came out too).  

Now, you can choose to be a freeloader.  Choose to not buy the actual product.  But when that publisher stops making games for the mac, goes out of business, you have nobody to blame but yourself.  Those that take advantage of the demo for months and years even, but never shell out the cash.

Oh, as for the business model, if it didn't work, how does MacSoft, MacPlay, Aspyr, etc stay in business?  Selling to those teenagers with monetary limits at $50 a pop like that.  Now way they survive, is there?


Then GR also wouldn't be unique.  I and many others would also leave it.  There is a reason we game on the mac, and not on the PC.  A good amount of the people that paid for premium could afford a Dell along with their Mac, just for gaming.  But we choose not to.  I know that Gemini and I had this talk when he bought a Fragbox.  He hated the PC gaming community.  GR has a small town feel, where you get to know all the players pretty quickly.  The PC side doesn't have that.  I know, I came from the dark side.

BTW, an earlier note, you mentioned Punkbuster.  Punkbuster is by game, not platform, and has nothing to do with PC or Mac.  I have 3 Mac games I know that use PB.


I am sure that statement does apply to you, based on this post.


No, GR offers them a place to play games, to chat, parents can activate a profanity filter.  You see, your attitude is what pushes for a Premium Only gameranger.  Paying for GR is not just about what added premium features you get, it's about supporting the work that goes into GameRanger.  


Nor is it offered by any other free gaming service.  You could always spend the time and money and effort to make a web site like AAO tracker.


It does for premium users.  We can use any chat we like.


Again, it does for premium users.  So this one you are really off base on.


At many a users request.  Many of us don't want PC users in our games, for various reasons.  Others, like me, hate it when a game room says there are 7 open spaces, but they are actually full because dipshits that were banned from GR are IP joining games (which really pisses me off when they join my servers without asking).  It also makes it much harder to keep the TK'ing assholes out of your hosts.

Many people were very vocal in their complaints about IP joiners ruining games.


And, like you said, beggers can't be choosers.  If they can't support GR, or choose not to, than they have no right to bitch.  It's like bitching that the demo version of Ghost Recon doesn't have a map you want to play.  The free demo version isn't supposed to make you real happy, it's supposed to wet your whistle for the real thing.  So I don't blame Evill at all for making the gap larger between free and premium, but he has so much in the free version it would be like Aspyr giving away the full Raven Shield, but selling a map pack for $50.  He has to scale the free GR down, as well as building up the premium features.  

Battle.net does. It also allows voice chat, and most other restrictions only allowed to Premium GR users.

Bnet does only support the WC, Diablo, and StarCraft series, but after 4 years of GR, the games and flames are getting old...Woot for Battle.net!

Well there you go... look at battle.net... and th games it supports, and then look at gameranger... anyway battle.net really shouldn't be compaired to GR as they are so completely different!

Alright, sorry for being so hasty with my reply, but judging by what Bucc's writing (and I do believe he's fairly well in the know on this subject) I was right to be critical, atleast.

Heh, B.net is the worst community to compare anything to, it's absolutely the most horrible community out there, seriously.

I remember Kevill made a couple of trackers for Quake etc. way back before GR came out, they all cost money to register and they didn't have a 100th of what GR Premium has to offer.

B.net is not horrible are you crazy.  The people at Bilizzard are pure geinius.  They alow a free service to who ever owns there game.  And who owns there games?  Everyone does.  Mac and pc users alike.  Games like Starcraft and Warcraft have so many players and so many possible players that the pure beauty of the software amazes me.  They have both PC amd MAC versions on the same disk with out having to go online or have to search for a crappy port in some video game store with a tiny selection of mac games.  You really have the wrong impression of B.net.  It is one of the only services taht alows Mac AND PC users to play and interact with each other flawlessly.  Man are you crazy to think that is is the MOST horrible community out there. >:(

     The ability to play games does not a community make. GR is a community. The B&G is a community. This forum is a community. The Branch Davidians were a community. Battle.Net is a writhing morass of Koreans and assholes none of whom give a rat's fuzzy ass about anyone but themselves.

Jeeeeezzze Bucc do u have nothing better to do except type long ass posts? Maybe u had a good reason.....oh well why do i bother on these forums anymore?

Jeeeeezzze Rebel, do you have nothing better to do than spam useless ass posts like that one?  

Since my response was to an equally lengthy post, it makes sense that it was long.  You, on the other hand, are just spiteful.  tsk tsk.

Well... I'm not saying you're out of line Bucc, but you put quite a spin on a couple of the things I discussed in my post.  You have to understand that I was posting that for the folks who have no clue about GR and such.  You are one of the few people who knows some of the inside stuff with Scott Kevill while the majority are in the dark, only to have like shed upon them by the assumptions that they make.  I would send this in a pm, but I figure I should at least defend parts of this.


Okay... Is this general knowledge that was posted somewhere on this forum?  If so, then great, show us!  You have to understand that I asked if we know how much money he makes from advertisements.  I never asked if Bucc knew. ;)  The point is that his financial situation is not general knowledge and that we should not even begin to assume that the reason why Scott Kevill implements GR in the way he does is solely based on profit margins.


No Bucc, we all don't know.  Why do you think there is so much talk about these kinds of things when it comes to Scott Kevill and GR?  I was trying to defend him by shedding some light to the assuming majority that we don't really know his financial status or situation.  Also, if you say he discussed this before, you really can?t count GR chat.  And if you say he discussed this on this forum I would call you out as a liar.  Unless he deleted all of his posts concerning money and such, he has never written about it here.  Also, I never assumed he lied, that?s just your spin on it.  If I had assumed he lied, it would have had to do with something he had said, which we all know he hasn?t.


Bucc, show me these facts that everyone seems to know but me.  Does anyone else other than Bucc have access to all the facts that we know?  What I posted were the facts that I know of, but I don?t see anywhere on this forum where Scott Kevill disclosed financial matters of this nature that the readers here seem to be so inquisitive about.


I?m not sure what you?re getting at here?  Maybe it was the part where the non-premium (non-supportive) freeloader should be blamed.  If you offer it, don?t blame people for abusing it.  It?s like the free samples at a super market.  You know very well people take advantage of that stuff just like they do with GR and demo games.  I?m just saying that some of the people on this forum are blatantly blaming non-premium users because they are ?taking advantage? of GR because they do not support it.  I don?t agree with freeloading, but welcome to the year 2004 where freeloading is practically the motto in which some live by.


You twisted that part, Bucc.  When I was stating some Premium users put the blame on all non-premiums, and this is of course unfair.  Yes, many of the kids out there have no monetary limits.  Hell, they?re on their own Macintosh usually! ;)  But, you have to admit that there are some people who can?t get Premium service because their parents won?t pay for it, regardless if they bought the game.  Come on Bucc, how many parents do you know that would willingly send $50 to some strange guy named Evill who lives in Australia just because their kids said they wanted Premium, and probably for reasons like having their name in bold, hosting chat rooms, and in game voice communication with complete strangers halfway across the world?


I complete agree with you here.  My biggest issue is really with the non-cross platform compatibility, which has more to do with the block against IP joining.  I have just as many friends who play on PCs as the ones with Macs, and it?s fun to have them go against each other head on head via GR.


It?s applies to most of us out here Bucc.  Just because you know how the magician pulled that rabbit out of his hat doesn?t mean we all do.  You have to admit that you know much more on this topic than most of us combined.  That being said, why don?t you post Scott Kevill?s financial status on this forum?  Include all of the advertisement fees, how much his servers cost in Australia, how much money he put into his own system, and any educational training he might have received for programming.  You said yourself that it has been discussed before.  The point here is that this stuff is not common knowledge.  Frankly, it shouldn?t be, and I?m sick of people complaining about it and accusing Kevill of bilking us poor saps out of our hard earned cash.  He blocks NF, which is a good business move to promote the new in-game voice communication for Premium users, and everyone screams rape and how they will never be able to talk to people again unless they give in to Kevill?s ?blackmailesque? business strategies.  


Bucc, come on man.  Read what I wrote, and then read what you wrote.  I was pointing out what the non-premiums users miss out on.  I never said that non-premium users couldn?t play game in GR.  I?m pointing out the fact that if someone doesn?t want to pay $50, they are not missing out on much, but they are still able to play games.  As for the profanity filter, I highly doubt parents go looking for that option.  After teaching in middle schools over the past two years, I can guarantee you that the kids, who the profanity filter is trying to protect, can easily figure out how to turn that off and also know how to find mush worse on the Internet.  The profanity filter is like a politically correct option.  You have to offer it or some whiney mom will complain to some judge somewhere, even though their own kid talks like a sailor when out of ear shot from their own mother.


Army Ops Tracker offers a tracker, as does America?s Army itself.  Even though AA?s is limited, it still tracks that stuff.  Honor points anyone?


We all know it does for Premium users, but the point was directed towards the majority of GR, which is comprised of non-premium users.  What exactly were you trying to twist?  I had already stated that it does not offer a free means of voice communication.  And yes Bucc, I?m talking about in the game, not the chat rooms.


Unless this was changed recently, I was previously unable to host games if I had another user logged in on my computer.  It was to prevent users from running voice apps in the background under a different user.  I even spoke with Scott about this and he confirmed that aspect of one of the updates.  He said he was thinking about removing that only if you were the one hosting the game, but that was many months ago.  I wasn?t able to host only a few weeks ago.  Maybe this changed recently, but I know that block was there for a couple of months at the least.


Completely understandable of course, but it is like disciplining a child and then telling then what they did wrong afterwards.  GR is free, and so are/were many of its features.  You have to remember that the people who are going to complain about this are the same people who couldn?t give a rat?s ass about supporting GR.  I was just merely suggesting that some non-premiums are probably thinking they are being targeted and that it is unfair because they can?t pay for Premium.  That?s their problem though.  I paid my $50.

.::|N| Noto

Bucc, I?m not trying to go against you here, but I felt that you were trying to put some slant against what I said as being some untruth and that I had no clue of what I was talking about.  I felt that my post only addressed the facts that the majority of the public was aware of and also some of the concerns/complaints that I have read over and over again on this very forum.  I also felt that my post would help to close the ?mouths? of some of the complainers out there who have no clue and only assume they know everything about GR and Scott Kevill.  I feel that your reply only encourages people to whine more (i.e. Kami).

Anyone without a clue of GameRanger probably wouldn't know about these forums.

I have very little information that most everybody here would have if they bothered to listen (read) and ask an occasional question instead of an accusation like I hear so often.


Yes, it's been posted in this very forum more than once.  You just need to go bak and read through all those threads that whine about paying for GR.

Or, you could just ask the guy.  That's how I found out.


And why would he disclose them on these forums?  1) These aren't his forums, and 2) I haven't seen anyone ask.  I've heard lots of people make assumptions, that's about it.

As for why do I and others know, because I've listened to him on GameRanger.  I've talked to him there.  Asked him how things were going.  You know, treated him like another human being, not like he was Bill Gates.  That's probably why I get a bit steamed about this topic, people treat him like he's Bill Gates.  Like the thought of him actually trying to make a profit at all makes him the devil himself.


What I was getting to was that I think you were 100% wrong there.  

You said he can't put his company in the hands of kids with monetary limits, I say he can, because the game companies, for one example, already do.  If it didn't work, we wouldn't have the game industry.

You gave a bad analogy, I gave one that fit more closely.  

Now you are saying not to blame people for taking advantage of it.  I say, why shouldn't I (we)?  Just because taking advantage of it seems to be more normal than not, doesn't make it right.  Same with stealing music from the internet.  Just because it's easy, and so many are doing it, doesn't make it right.  With that kind of attitude, being a pedophile in black robes and white collar would be alright.  Hey, all the other priests are doing it, why shouldn't I?  Mob mentality never justifies a crime, or, in this case, an abuse.  And before you say something about the abuse of little boys being different, look at what it's called.  Abuse.  It's called that for a reason.


I didn't twist it at all.  

If a game company, like say Aspyr, saw everyone playing GhR DEMO for a year, but only had 5% of those (or less) actually pay for the game, how long do you think they'd stay in business?  How long do you think that they would continue to offer free demos?  Think about it.

How many parents?  Id say as many parents as pay for xbox online, or any of those other pay services.  Seems like there are a lot of them, aren't there?  If kids with platforms can get their parents to pay for it, why wouldn't kids with Macs?  It's not like the kids with the xbox are smarter, is it?

And don't treat GameRanger like it's just some thing in some guy's garage in Australia.  It is a company, after all.



This is a bad idea on so many levels.
1) this is a community of Mac players, many of us like it that way.
2) a good many spoke up against IP joiners (seems like you missed a whole lot of that in my last post.
3) look at all the game incompatibilities between PC and Mac.  All the different versions.  It's a mess.
4) for games like MOH, RTCW, etc, you can always use GR to make it easier to find games and your friends on PC servers, can't you?  Or have you never discovered the server folders and how to use them?



Noto, I've tried and tried and tried to explain the demo version versus the full version business model.

And Evill's financial situation has absolutely nothing to do with a business model.  All it has to do with is why he changed models.

And my knowledge here comes more from an MBA than talking to Evill, this is just study of business models.

But I'll try once more, please pay attention.

Evill's old business model was of having advertisers only pay for GameRanger.  They could cover his static costs of bandwidth and hardware, as well as his time for both programming and also administrating (two different jobs, btw) of GameRanger.

With the dotcom crash, that business model has fallen apart for just about everyone.

Now, he went without any income for months and months, plus the number of users kept growing and growing, which increased his costs (GameRanger is not run off a simple T1, and one ad a month can't pay for an average T1).

So, now we get to the business model of the demo versus the full product.  So he adds features to the full product.  But he has a problem.  Since he didn't start with this model, his demo version has too many features, there's just not enough delta v between the two versions.

So, he has to increase the gap between the two.  Ok, yes, he adds more features to the premium, but in order to actually make it worth while, he has to prune down the features of the demo.  Now this is what most people bitch about.  They got this free before but not now.  Which is true, but that was under a different business model.  

So, to follow the model, the demo / free version should be just enough to make you want more.  Just enough to get you into it, to generate interest, but also to leave you disappointed and craving the full version.  It's that way for video games, that way for food at the supermarket, and that way for anything using this model.



And I'm pointing out that they could be missing out on everything, if everyone felt that way.  I say GR is worth the $50 a year, period.  I don't look at the two versions and wonder if it's worth $50 to upgrade from one to another, I just think GR, as a whole, is worth the cash.



Army Ops Tracker is a web site.  I know, I posted here about it long long ago.  It is not a gaming service.  It's pretty comparable to the *DAMN site though.  And you'll notice that this site has nothing to do with GR, business wise.

As for honor being tracked in games, pfft.  That is just part of a game.  It has nothing to do with a gaming service.  If you want to compare GR versus AA, I will start laughing.



You said it wasn't offered, not that it wasn't a free option.  There's no twist there.  It is offered, just like leather seats in a car, if you are willing to pay for them.  



Here, you are flat out wrong.

As a premium users, I can have multiusers logged in and still run games and host games.  Yes, he limited this for non-premiums, but not for you us premium users.  Yes, it is another option, but if you couldn't do it, it was your issue, because I always have.

And his thinking about removing that when hosting a game took all of one day.  Since that did effect MP Servers 1 and 2, we talked to Evill the very night of that update.  Hours later, we could host Servers 1 and 2 (non-premium) with multiusers logged into those computers.  (this kind of customer service is one of the reasons that I do support Evill)

Those are facts, and I've talked with others about them in the past if you don't believe me.



First, referring to GameRanger as free is part of the problem.  Second, it's those people that don't give a rat's ass about supporting it that are getting bad mouthed.

As for the last, your post didn't come off that way at all.  It came off as you accusing Evill and GR, not defending it at all.  The tone of your post, as I read it, is completely afoul of Evill's current business practices.  And since some of the questions you asked have been answered, more in GR (where they belong) than here, yes, I do think you don't know everything you should have to broach the subject.  

BTW, Kami wasn't whining about it, he was actually on the same side as I am in this case.  And I did read all of it.  If he was whining, it was at your post, not mine.

i'd be complaining, but i agreed not to when my sugar daddy, aka ghost sniper renued my premium

LMAO!

pwnage.

I didn't realize that GhostSniper was a doughboy, because we all know that Jeb lives by the motto "the more the cushin', the better the pushin'."

If I had the time I would explain why, but since I don't, I'll just put it like this; you're full of shit Noto.

What are you doing playing video games?  You should be out tryin to get some pussy>..

lol wick, I think that should come a little bit later (15 or 16) but hey if there's grass on the field play ball.

Wickerson umm yah how do I explain this umm


I am thirteen  I am no where even close to pussy, as you call it, you perv you.  I like the grass and the playing though that sounds nice but this "PUSSY" I will leave till later.


Damn perv.

I should probably start off on topic. So, for once and after recent thought I've decided that as soon as I can convince parents (or perhaps a ever so nice member f the GR community) to help me with my no credit card problems, I'll get premium. Although at times, alot of times, I don?t particularly agree with Scott's....business strategies...he has done alot for the Mac gaming community, I mean alot. He's brought together a community of Mac gamers in no way any other has. GameRanger is the only Mac gaming client of any significance. Let's look at this very forum; I doubt it would even exist without GameRanger.

All you that don?t want to renew premium need a brain check. Hmmmm I'll use a less than original example. When you go into a say McDonalds, you can get water for free, but you have to pay for any other drink or food. Do you whine and bitch when the manager tells you he won't give you Coke for free? Crude example, I know, but it makes the point that?s needs to be made. When you compare GR to GameSpy and such you need to realize GameSpy has more money, thus they can ask for less. If I had to choose between a Mac and GameRanger or a PC and GameSpy, I would pick the Mac. I don't want 100s of games; I want a good community and a good computer.

If you're too immature to understand that not everything is free....Servers, Connections, labor. Scott has put alot of HIS time into making GameRanger, he should be thanked isnted of shunned. Just like we thank and support *DAMN for giving us the BL and these forums. $50 (USD mind you) is little to ask for. Realize it's very little of him to ask for all he's done over the years.

Off topic Myst remark:

God, at 13 you don't like girls? Geez man get off your chair and take a look at them. Who ever prefers Kickball over Pussy is a fool.Geeez, what are you? Snipey? Gotta be Snipery....
 ???

lol young kids these days

Maybe it was yur name that was making me think of it....who knew?

Is is just me or is any topic bucc is involved in he pwns.

I bow down bucc

Gold Digger

bucc does what he wants...
***hears the beonce song "independent woman"

LOL... I was not a virgin at age os 13..... In fact.. i think 13 is when i lost my virginity

That's virgin.

And that's virginity.

Just FYI.

sry crypt.. im still asleep.. got of work at the strip club last night and didnt go o bed till almost pm today.. around 26 hr of no sleep.. and i just woke up.. bah.. im goingback to sleep..

ROFL bucc....spamming....i love it....at least I dont ban people from my server in the HUNDREDS. BTW if any clan has a special section for a list that has everyone who has been banned from their server and a reason....i think your using the ban command a lil too often. COUGHCOUGHBANNINGPLAYERSTHATOWNYOUCOUGHCOUGH


i really should delete this for being no more than hate filled spam (along with the posts from you guys off on the virginity tangent. feel free to stop any time, and no that is not a request.)  but since i am in |MP| i can't very well do that with out being called a biased son of a bitch now can i?  consider this a friendly warning to knock it off rebel. next time i'll have no qualms about just nuking your post and giving you a spam warning.


-Brain

That's the best 100th post I've seen in a long time.

.::|N| Noto

I'm banned from the MP servers.  Why?  Because |MP| Ass doen't like me.  Oh, that and I also kicked for gimping my guys.  What an ass.

Noto, hate to call you wrong again.  Wait, no I don't.

You haven't been banned from the MP servers for months.  Ever since you and I talked.  

As for Rebel, he's just a tard that thinks implying he's better is the reason he was kicked, will make someone believe it.  And I'll point out all the people that asked us to kick losers like Rich today.  We like to keep things nice there, I don't care if you are skilled or not, it's no excuse to break our rules.

Oh no, I'm hurt.

I personally have never been kicked from an |MP| server....and hell, half of |MP| probably hate my guts...lol

And I have made the occassional tk by accident and have done a little shit talking in there and probably a few other minor infractions.....so if you got banned from their server I would have to say you were doing something really really stupid and deserved to get banned.

Peace.

-GhostSniper Out.

(http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/YaBBImages/offtopic.gif)

I remember checking a few weeks after you and I had talked.  I was still banned at that point.  I don't exactly your forum often enough to know when I was "officially" removed.  I know I wasn't able to join for part of January though.

.::|N| Noto

(http://rtf.phonelosers.org/shite/spam.jpg)



First the thread was about the future gameranger update.
Then it was about Scott Kevill's financial situation.
Then it was about virginity.
Now it's about people being banned from MP's server.

The life of a thread...

Wait until we get to the part why France sucks, American Foreign policy needs an overhaul, how Fridge is a cheater, and why someone can't join GhR rooms because of some "Modifications have been deteced" error.

.::|N| Noto

Mabye it is just me but people scare me.

13.... 13.... freak? mad, desperate, stupid or just crazy?

no offence but... 13???? most kids try going to secondry school before getting some girl up the duff!

I think it was jerry springer...there was this 12 year old super overweight kid who was telling about how she couldn't stop having sex, and then she got into a argument with her mom cause she didnt like it...ohhh, it was hilarious.

What?...were off topic already ;D


Psst. Posting that something is off topic is also off topic.. .You don't need to point it out, specially if youre not a admin.

hate to be off topic in my commenting on joka's comment off the statment of this topic being off topic, but....

12? an obease 12 year old who can't stop having sex? oh my freaking hell... this world is unbelievably f*cked up

Finally a word of sanity from BFG thx you.  I think the real forum is dead so stop complaining about off topic becuase it has been like this for a while now.  Any I am still appaled that theres people on the internet telling KIDS to have sex.   >:(    


People are scary.

aaaaand we?re done.

(http://www.americanisp.com/no_spam.gif)

you can start a new thread about the update when it?s out.

z][t-Civic?