*DAMN R6 Forum

OMFG.

news:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3317429.stm
analysis:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3113417.stm

AIIIE!!!

what do you all think should be done with him now (extraction, punishment, etc)?

bah cookie u beat me to it but i still love you. I think we should give saddam over to the iraqui people and let them beat the fuck out of him for his crimes. Just wait till the french start claiming that they knew we could do it and that they helped out when they are just a bunch of dickheads like saddam and osama. Hooah to the US army!

The Iraqi's just set up their own War Crimes tribunal just last week.  Any bets on the first contestant?

Well it's about fu*kin time! That fool has so much damn money and he's hiding in 6-8 hole under a farmhouse...what a fuc*kin noob.

His ass will be tried for some and comvicted of war crimes or some shit and be in military prison forever.

But is it the real Saddam and not one of his many stuntdoubles  ;)

lol. sorry just describing saddam as a noob hehe.
He dosn't half look a bit out of it doesn't he!

oh. Congratulations to the Americans for breaking the Geneva Convention AGAIN by showing pictures of POWs ... or im sorry 'illigal combatants'

first of all, why the fuck cant you show pictures of P.O.W's? id like to hear the reasoning on that. i guess saddam had 750k in american cash, two aks and a pistol, and yet he didnt fire a single shot. and to all you americans, you know what with means: bush for another four years....godamnit

Perhaps he didn't want to get killed? Chances are if he had tried to shoot someone he's just have been executed on the spot.

They did the DNA testing and they proved it's him, so don't sweat it KGB.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/photo_gallery/3318041.stm

Look at this old man, I mean... if is this a mass murderer, then maybe we should fear santa as well. ;D (It sucks how they shaved his beard off).

And he's probably going to be handed over to the Iraqi war trib.

Rebel, the capture of Saddam is not going to change much at all.

Some of you guys are real jackasses, just for the record.

Well it seems to be the real thing go USA

I'll be really pissed off when/if they hand him over exclusively to the war tribunal. Someone'll probably end up breaking him out. I say, let him sit in an interrogation room (in U.S. custody) and have him be injected with drugs that will make his spine compress until it snaps. (Or tells us where the WMD's are)

Or, we could do it the old fashioned way: (http://community.the-underdogs.org/smiley/armed/behead.gif)



 8)

What about when Saddam showed the U.S. POW's on T.V. during the First Gulf War???  Only problem with the Geneva Convention is that the UNITED STATES (and a few of our allies) IS THE ONLY NATION THAT TRIES TO FOLLOW THE DAMN THING.  And besides, Saddam is not a "POW".  He is in the same class as the Nazis that were captured and put on trial at Nuremburg after WWII.....and pictures of them were widely distributed all over the world.

But hey, like it or not, believe it or not, Bush just got re-elected for President......

MUHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

...sons killed and the man himself caught alive to face iraqi and then possible international war crimes tribunals. nice, very nice ;D

Actually... The Geneva Convention specifies POW's as uniformed combatants.  I highly doubt Saddam was wearing a uniform, let alone was in a combat position.  Therefore, Saddam doesn't actually classify as a POW according the to Geneva Convention.  If England was an occupied country, and Blair was on the run, would you believe your aggressors if they said they found Blair, but did not provide proof?  I think showing pictures of Saddam helps to take away the morale of insurgents that have been using guerilla tactics over the past 6-8 months.  I have a feeling that the attacks we hear about every day against U.S. personel will begin to fade quickly.  And to Saddam... Nice spider hole... reminds me of Webster's house.  Except in Webby's house, it probably smelled like roses.  I can only imageine what Saddam's little club house smelled like.  :o

.::|N| Noto

So much hate for a person you have no record with. Chill down, it's not your dictator, it's the Iraqi's dictator. It's their business what they do with him, he'll probably be executed by them Iraqis anyways.

We should sign the ICC and hand him over to that.

So that the goverments dont use the soldiers as pawns in their  propaganda machine.

Never thought they would catch the little rascal, nj.

     I find it hard to believe that the Iraqi tribunal will have anything to do with this. America will find some pretext to put on a show trial of their own or to take control of the "Iraqi" tribunal while still calling it that.

     You know, maybe this will give Bush the support he needs to actually be elected.

It's too bad the man responsible for 9-11 remains free. Saddam was a third world dictator, not an international terrorists. Don't get me wrong, its great that we got him, but for the overall interest of the U.S. it really doesn't make a difference. This occurrence will add fuel to the real terrorists, they will be hellbent as ever to strike the U.S. in its state of euphoric glory. Saddam is a coward, he didn't even enter the glorious world of martyrdom in the name of his cause. If it was I in his shoes, I sure as shit wouldn't have let them take me alive.

And deny the Iraqi people justice? The ICC has no death penalty - and the Iraqis are out for blood - the Iraqi journalists at Bremer's conference were shouting "Death to Saddam" and other such lines. The man orchestrated the killing of untold thousands. He doesn't deserve life.

 GhostSniper, what was up with posting pictures of Saddam's dead sons? Pictures of Saddam?

Oh yes, I forgot that we're Americans, so us, and our pathedic society is above world law.

What's capturing Saddam mean? Another weapon in the US propaganda machine? That's about it.

Or, the American type attitude: "Saddam was obviously coordinating resistance attacks against US troops from his well hidden hole."

We went to war over what? Non existant WMDs? Or was it to "liberate the people to Iraq"? Well, we sure did a damn good job of that, killing over a thousand civilians, holding double standards, and making the people of that country feel unsafe in their own homes.

Saddam could've gone out and killed 10 thousand more people, and it would've come at less of a cost of human life than this useless war.

Re-elected? I'm still waiting to see him get elected the first time. Although, I must say - it's gotta take one hell of an election plan to win with the minority of the votes.

If the American people are stupid enough to actually elect Bush, then they deserve  to have a leader who takes after their stupidity.

 [/color]

Amen, Typhy. Dictators like Saddam come a dime a dozen in this world, we going after all of them too? Perhaps, Saddam was just the unlucky one who happened to be sitting on one of the largest natural oil reserves in the world.

typhy aren't you one of those "stupid americans"?  and since you still have a few years before you can vote might i suggest you stfu instead of repeating what you've heard the adults say.

on a lighter note they named it "operation red dawn"... they should start a new operation named "first blood" and go find usama with the quickness.

Typhy, I'll make you the same deal I made X86BSD....(and since you are a minor, I'll extend the offer to your family)....

If America is so bad, why don't you move your ass somewhere else?? Tell you what I'll do for you, I'll buy you a plane ticket to anywhere in the world you want to go (France, Egypt, Argentina, I don't care where...), with the following stipulation:? YOU CAN NEVER EVER COME BACK TO THE UNITED STATES OR ANY OF ITS TERRITORIES, not even to visit.

PM me and let me know where to send the tickets.

-GhostSniper Out.

In defense of Typhy, if people weren't allowed to freely express their opinions this country would be no different than an authoritarian dictatorship. We are free to believe what we want, and with out the voice of the minority, this country would still have a King (in some ways we still do). Typhy gets so much shit because he is young, but his posts have a concise and logical manner that some of the posts by so called "adults" lack greatly. In this online world age means nothing, as long as you can clearly express your ideas with words. People that stand up for what is right, as opposed to what is popular, in my opinion command greater respect than the latter.

 GhostSniper, one of the good things about this country, is that I'm free to express my opinion.

Why don't I move? Maybe because my family owns 3 condos which we rent out, a 4 story house on 3 acres of land? Maybe because all my friends and family live in Juneau? Maybe because I enjoy living 10 minutes from a kick ass ski area? Maybe because I enjoy the climate here? Maybe because I like Juneau's crime free enviornment?

Perhaps people like you believe that free speech is unnesscessary because if you don't agree with the current leadership, you should get the hell out? Should I be moving back and forth from another country after each presidential election?

Also, just some interesting stats:

There are 26 people in my family here in Juneau. A plane ticket to Seattle from here costs about 700 bucks ( the one I went to Seattle on last week was 699 bucks from Alaska Airlines ). 700x26=18,200.

I plane ticket from Seattle to France ( just using France as an example ), goes for about 850. 850x26=22,100.

22,100+18,200= 40,300.

This is merely the price of the plane tickets. If you're willing to pay 40 thousand, 300 dollars to a single person you've talked to over the internet, then, either, congratulations on winning the Lottery, or "get a life".

GhostSniper, are you so insecure in your views that you cannot tolerate even a little dissent? Hell, this country was founded on dissent.

Just because someone doesn't like the direction our country is headed in today doesn't mean they don't love it as much or more than you do.

I would go so far as to say that every citizen of this country has not only the right, but the duty to speak out against what they believe is wrong. That's a fundamental tenent of Democracy: open, public discussion and debate of the direction of the country at large. And if you don't like that, one of the fundamental principles upon which this great country was founded, maybe it's you who should get the hell out.

For everybody here bitching, can you at least agree that capturing Saddam is a Good Thing?? Regardless of whether you believe the war was right, I don't think any sane person believes that Saddam has a right to live outside heavily fortified prison walls. He is a horrible tyrant and human being, and now he will be brought to justice.


If you are going to ask Bush about his election plan to win with a minority of the votes, make sure to ask Bill Clinton (twice), Richard Nixon, JFK, Truman, and Woodrow Wilson (twice). And that's just the 20th century. Rail on the electoral college if you like, but don't blame Bush for winning by the rules.

PS - GhostSniper, if you don't like people bitching about the United States, I suggest that you leave. I'm sure that the Chinese, Saudis, or many others would love a citizen who doesn't question the government.

Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm very glad that Saddam was captured. However, I find it meaningless.

Ace, you're right. I worded that poorly. I was refering to the fact that Bush won the election while getting less votes than Gore.

You know, I don't care what they do to him, I just want my damn $25 mill.  >:(

But if I had to choose, I would say keep him alive in a small box and IV feed him and give him blood transfusions if needed, just to make him see what "nice" people are like.

To Typhy (and everyone else):  I don't have a problem with anyone questioning the government, or even speaking out against it or parts of it they don't agree with.....but I do have a problem when you say Americans are stupid and that we have a pathetic society, I have a problem with people not supporting the very military that is protecting their pathetic asses every day, and I do have a problem with people who try to twist the truth to fit their beliefs.

-GhostSniper Out.

Tis better to take the morally high road than indulge some barbaric idea of "justice". I don't care if Saddam himself was barbaric -- there is no reason to lower ourselves to his level. The ICC was set up specifically to deal with conflicts like this, as an international body equipped to handle this sort of trial without conflict as to whose responsibiilty it is to try him, how to create a fair trial, what he should be tried for, etc. Saddam's crimes need to come to public light and justice needs to be served, and the ICC will be a great way to do that. Whether or not he deserves life, no one deserves the right to take that life away from him.

 GhostSniper, I spoke against the war. Not against our troops. I never said "damn, I wish Saddam had a portable nuclear device with him to blow the fuck out of all those troops who came to take him prisioner," or any bullshit like that. I said that capturing him was useless, as is the war.

Right now, when I go overseas, or even into Canada, I feel embarassed to be an American. The only thing I can say is "if I were 18, I wouldn't have voted for him."

I think Bush has become a power-obsessed hypocrite with crazy ideas. I'm sure Hitler thought killing all the Jews made sense, much the same as Bush thinks that every country which isn't a democracy needs to be "liberated", so that rather than being opressed by their own leaders, they can be opressed by America's.  

Typh,

Turn on the news, read some editorials, look at some news magazines (newsweek, time, etc) or even some websites. Maybe even read a book on Iraq under Saddam's dictatorship.

If you see some of the things that Saddam did and still think getting him/the war was pointless, then you're in Saddam's frame of mind, or misinformed.

An example:

From http://www.khrw.com/crimes.html

5,000 people dead - that's about 1/6 of your city's population. And that's just the KIA count.

Now let's hear someone complain about our government.

 Baz, as I said, I'm glad that Saddam was caught. I am aware of the shit that he did. However, in his present status ( prior to his capture ), he wasn't a threat to anyone. I don't think the war is complete just because we capture someone like him - after we took over Iraq, he meant nothing. Look at him - hiding down in a basement. How are you going to say that his capture was important? He wasn't doing anything.  

Omg... why don't wee just play the race card.  Hey, for you folks who don't know, we actually supported Saddam Hussein in the early 80's.  We bought him weapons and shit.  We felt like a bunch of dumbasses when he used the against his own people of course.  Also, I believe most of this starting when Iraq invaded their peaceful neighbor, and our ally, Kuwait.  Oil really doesn't have anything to do with it.  If it did, my fucking tax money wouldn't be going to fucking Iraqis.  At least you Euros can say you got one up on that one. $ 87 Billion to a country a half world away, but we can't sell their oil so that they can use that money instead of mine.  I hate Bush for that.  I hate him for the fact that we have starving kids in my own city, schools that are closing due to lack of funding, and people who cannot afford health care.  But hey, maybe I'll move to Iraq and teach there.  I figure I would be getting a new school, and universal health care.  Better benefits than I could ever get in the states.

.::|N| Noto

Baz, guess where the Iraqi's got those chemical weapons? Yes, the United States. We armed them with WMD, in a hope that they would use them of the Iranians, whom they were at war with. At that time the United States knew exactly what was happening to the Kurds, we didn't give a shit. This is a good pic to sum up U.S foreign policy in the Mideast(hypocrites) http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/ . I agree totally Saddam was a sac of shit, but in reality he is no worse than the policy makers in Washington.

Well I was in the middle of the news. I just got back from DC and was at all the jubulation involving his capture.

First off capturing Sadaam is great, but it is a symbolic victory. It is naive to think he is incharge of the opposition. It is more likley that General Ibrahim is in command. Mark my words, Ibrahim is a talented commander. Capture him, and I will french kiss, I mean liberty kiss GS.

Lets all make a cyber toast. Ehem (clears throat) To the Iraqi people and the justice to be rewarded to the "Butcher of Baghdad."

There's a pretty big difference between having the weapons and using them, Spetz.

Ace - Bush didn't win by the rules, he won by the Supreme Court. . .the minority is irrelevant - he shouldn't have won Florida  ;)

But not going there, I do agree that it's always a good thing when criminals are captured.  Of course, I don't think anyone should have been in a position to capture Hussein in the first place, but now that the damage has been done I suppose there's no harm in his arrest.

Of course, I have just two thoughts:

1.  Napolean.  Why don't we treat captured leaders like that anymore?  Of course, he escaped, so he's a bad example, but why not exile/imprison Saddam - what good is one more life lost in an already worn-torn nation?

2.  Osama bin Laden.  Ha. . .I hope people don't elect Bush for finding Saddam, even more so when we haven't even heard a mention of this guy for a while. . .

 Its a long way till the elections, and remember Daddy bush won the Gulf War but lost the election.

Last I checked, Napolean didn't commit any crimes against humanity.

I thought Napolean's troops raped and pillaged when they were advancing on Russia, did they not?  Raping and pillaging was in style then, so perhaps it wouldn't have been considered a crime against humanity.  Nonetheless, I'm sure Napolean ordered a few ethnic cleansings here, a few pillages there... Just remember, Napolean's military conquests as remembered by the conquered weren't exactly peachy pictures of rainbows and flags.  Napolean had a history of beheading the leaders of the towns he pillaged, and anyone else that got in his way.

.::|N| Noto

For all the war, death, starvation and just plain hardship, Napolean was as big of an ass as there is.  But, his exile was part of his terms of surrender.  

Saddam hasn't surrendered.  He did the first time, and was left in power, which was a mistake on our part back then.

As for the here and now, I don't care if the Iraqis hang, draw and quarter him, or if he rots in Cuba for the rest of his days.  Probably better for everyone if he is executed, so there is no "free Sadam" movement or terrorist attacks later.  

Dearborn was full of celebration and even a parade today.  All the former Iraqis that moved here were singing in the streets, snow and all.  It means a lot more than some of you think to have one less major asshole no longer at large.

Its so true. For most of the people here their information on Saddamn has been 3rd hand, its been what the media tell us and what the history books say. We can be happy that such a cruel man has been stopped, and be content in the knowledge that he will never again hold the reigns of any element of power that could cause harm.
What we think is not that inportant though, its a bit meaningless. Its those Iraqi's who lost familys, the Kurds who were murderd in their thousands through Saddam's ethnic cleansing for whom it really matters. They deserve more than anyone to see this man be brought to justice. I see two options. 1) He is brought to the Hague and tried for crimes against humanity amoung other things. Or 2) he is brought to trial in Iraq. But if he is I feel the americans might try very hard to make sure that iraq suddenly uses the death penalty and makes sure it is put into practise.

I don't believe in the death penalty so i wouldnt want him excecuted. I don't know how many of you have now seen the pictures of him on TV, a shaken, ragged old man with a long beard. In a way he looked so normal. Its hard to belive that someone could be, well i hate to use the word, but evil, to carry out such destruction and suffering. I wouldn't complain if the guys spent the rest of his days in prison, and im not talking about the "this is your tv, your pool table, your 3 course meals" prison. he really deserves to rot his days out.


just a quick note, I think we have to be carfull about the Pow thing... Saddam i believe was the commanding general (or equivelent) of the iraqi army, just as Bush is the Chief somthing or other... and i suppose if you capture somone like this you want the world to see it... but as someone said here basicallly that "they showed our guys on tv so why can't we show him" well... I would hope you would agree there is a difference between the two countries... no point going down to their level now is there!

I am still waiting for my damn $25 mill.  Here I am, out of the goodness of my heart, its almost xmas, I tip off the Americans where this creep is and you think they have returned my calls about collecting the reward  >:( ?

It's allready been said that Saddam will be going to the Iraqi War Crimes council and not the ICC.  Besides, who better to try Saddam than the Iraqi people?  The United States is not even a member of the ICC and since the American Army captured him you can just forget about the ICC getting any say in this.

And anyone who says this was pointless just needs to take one good look at the Iraqi people.  Every non Baathist in that country is happy as hell right now.  Militaryily it is even a significant event.  Saddam had a good intelligence on him not to mention the $750,000 dollars that would have gone to the militants.  He was not the leader of the resistance by any means but he was still it's figure head.

Kind of interesting how Saddam preached his Jihad's and suicide bombings for the last few decades and when it comes to his own life he cowers in a hole and puts up absolutely no resistance to his capture.  Better to kill him in a prison than make him a martyr though so we should thank him for not fighting.

Oh and Nomad.  Apparently most of the intelligence that lead to Saddam's capture was derived from interogations.  So exactly where are you right now?  ;)

Hmmmm.....we tried to help Saddam out in the early 80's and it backfired.....we left Saddam in power after the first Gulf War and it backfired....we didn't take the first World Trade Center bombing in 1993 serious enough and it backfired.....sounds like you guys all have a great sense of "hindsight is 20/20".  Why don't you all go work for the National Security Agency.....I'm sure they sure could use some extra ESP that you all seem to have in being able to tell what is going to happen and how to avoid it.

Remember, if someone wants to do something to you bad enough, and will risk their own life to do it, there sometimes is no way to stop them.

How much you wanna bet that we find Osama Bin Laden in October 2004 in "another hole". Perfect timing before elections.

At long last we can rejoice! Iraq is freed from terror! The middle east will be pacified! The Canadians and French will fall in love with America all over again! Our troops will finally be greeted in the streets as the liberators they truly are instead of getting blown to bits half-a-dozen a week! The civilian contractors will be allowed to leave the green zone and actually see the countryside they are shaping with their blood money! George Bush will get re-selected - again! A warm glow will fill the hearts of liberals and make them love an unelected bigot with delusions of grandeur, thus allowing him to declare himself dicator for life, just like he's always wet-dreamed about! Yay!

And most of aaaaaaaaaall ... Osama will walk into the White House and commit hari-kari in front of a masterbating George Bush! Yay!

That and the war on terrorism will end cause we just won it.





Right. Let's check back on all this in three monthes time.

Bully for the troops, tho. Fucking sweet job done. Too bad it took nine monthes to find him. And too bad that his capture is just another feather in their caps rather than a ticket home.

The ICC is out of the question since the US doesn't even support it. The Iraqis recently abolished the Death Sentence so it'd be a pretty major step if they were to introduce it again, just for Mr. Hussein.
And regarding the money he had, $750k, that's pocket change.

I think Saddam should have his own morning talkshow on NBC. Think of the ratings. How about Regis and Saddam.

Regis: So saddam have you seen the new outfits this summer? Absolutley outstanding. I'm telling you our producer is selling me on the streets.

Saddam: AL KAJOUM! Wololololololololololololooo! Die imperialst pigs Wolololololololololololololololoooo! Oh yeah, the outfits were very chic. Made 100% from camel ass. Now a message from our coporate pimps.



Ok so the last post was real lame and probablly not funny at all. Still, I think Saddam should be forced to have his own talk show or replace Kelly Ripa and co-host with Regis.

All i can say is; bout fuckin time

lol history will state that as napoleon advanced on Russia, Russia burned down everything before napoloen got there, leave nothing for him to rape and pilage. This method is sometimes refered to as "slash and burn"

anywhoop, i find it incredibly convinient for Dub-ya to capture the "most violent enemy combatant" within a year of the re-elections. I really honestly can smell a small conspiricy brewing, i know its far fetched, by the timing is just too fucking terrific. I  can only hope (although i won't hold my breath) that the people of america, will not be blind to the fact, that he has "raped and pilaged" our economy, gave tax breaks to the rich, and squandered a national surplus, on ranch vaction time, and his war to avenge his father.

-Oh and someone, i think it was GhostSniper, said that the armed forces are protecting me....
LOL!! protecting me from what?! ever heard of the first strike policy, we wouldn't even know if any of these guys that we nail are truly dangerous to the people to the US, because we ram a missle up their ass before they can spit out word one. Most of our reasoning for war and slaughter, has been strickly speculation, and really pisses me off.

Ill say it again i really hope, that america learns from their mistake, and does NOT vote president George W. Fuck-Up back into office.

PLEASE PEOPLE, THINK ABOUT THE WAY HE RAN THE COUNTRY!!

WILL THE ECONOMY EVER BE OKAY AGAIN??

ITS TIME TO LEARN OUT LESSON, DON'T EMBARRASS THE COUNTRY AGAIN!!!!!

At my school, one of the only public high schools left in the country were art is a priority (the los angeles county high school for the arts), we are preparing to preform the cruicible, and i find it funny how much the Salem witch trials closly parellel that of the war on terrorism.
ahh let me see, just replace a few words... there ::

The Salem US witch Enemy Combatant  trials

anywho, im done, im angry and if bush wins again, well - it just better not happen.


-T

p.s. does the fact that im in highschool discredit my argument --no, so lets be more mature than to just call me a kid and a nooob.

First of all, the idea that the capture of Saddam was staged to make Bush look good really is far-fetched.

But besides that.....Tax breaks for the rich???  I am far from being rich and those tax cuts helped me and my family out tremendously.  The government is already getting over half of my paycheck in taxes, and forgive me if I don't want to fund every social program the people in Washington can come up with.

Next....yes, like it or not, the Armed Forces of this country are protecting you.  You can bad-mouth the President, you can bad-mouth the Republicans, and you can bad-mouth stupid conservatives like ME.....but listen here you little punk, you start bad-mouthing the military that defends the very freedoms you enjoy, and I have a serious problem with you.  I am a little more mellow now (after being a civillian for over 5 years), but I bet I can still kick your little punk ass.  You just better be glad you are saying this shit over the internet instead of in person in front of my face because I would have broken your little neck for less than what you just said.

Finally, Don't Embarrass the Country Again???  What the hell do you think Bill Clinton was doing the whole 8 years he was in office?

Oh, P.S.--No, it doesn't matter to me that you are in high school....I would fuck your world up just the same as if you were an adult.

Peace.

-GhostSniper Out.

Have you ever taken an economics class in your life? There are these things called "recessions" that happen in a semi-regular pattern. Entering 2001, we had just burst the dot-com bubble and were headed downward into recession.

Tax cuts push more money into the private sector for both consumption and investment. Here is the record on what happened to the economy after a tax cut, starting a long time ago.

Coolidge cut taxes, the result was the growth through twenties.
Kennedy cut taxes, the result was the growth through the sixties.
Reagan cut taxes, the result was the longest period of sustained growth in the history of our nation.
Bush II cut taxes, and we're now seeing a very positive economic outlook.

It sounds to me that most of the leftist arguments about "tax breaks for the rich" are based in the fact that these people are JEALOUS of what someone else has accomplished and produced. Wealth is not DISTRIBUTED, it is created! Taxing people who create wealth just encourages them to quit. Income taxes are some of the biggest deteriments to progress in this country.

"Squandered" a surplus? It was gone by the time he took office, It never actually existed - it was  a PREDICTION, and the economy had moved into recession.

Learn how the world works. Feelings don't mean shit. Facts DO.

If you would like to know more facts about the Bush regime, check out this site  http://www.house.gov/reform/min/politicsandscience/ Hopefully you can understand the implications of manipulating the Facts.

I might take a little more stock in this website if it wasn't run by a Democrat.  I would at the very least like to hear an argument from an independent, non-biased source.  What do you think a Democrat is going to say about a Republican President?

I guess I would consider myself a Republocrat.  I've always had the conservative views of the Republican party, but being in the field of education, I have no choice but to support the Democrats in that sense.  I actually voted for Bush for a couple of reasons.  First off, realize that if you were a voting American in the 2000 elections. you were voting for the lesser of a few evils.  None of the candidates were actually liked.  It was more of a "who do you not want running this country?".  Bush had much more experience on his side with the cabinet he was bringing in, although I knew that Warmonger Cheney would wind up dropping bombs on someone before he was out of there, and I was right.  Al Gore's cabinet consisted of folks who had almost no international connections, ties, or experience whatsoever.  If you Euros think Bush is bad, at least Bush knows where Europe is.  Unfortunately for me, the Republicans and the Democrats haven't been to education savvy lately.  I wish they would bring back the Whig Party.

Also, for yall you guys out there that hate Bush, remember, Bush isn't running this country.  Dick Cheney is. ;)

Have you ever noticed whenever there is a high level of alert, Bush is giving a speech somewhere on television, while Cheney is wisked away to a secure underground location (N.O.R.A.D.).  Cheney has been seen about as many times during this administration as he has had heart attacks (For you Euros, that's about 9 times).  Bush is just too dumb to run this machine.  The republicans wanted back in power, so they put a figure head in there.  Who better to put in than George W. Bush?  Hell, I voted for the guy only because I knew he wasn't actually going to run the show!

Chew on that for a bit.

.::|N| Noto

I cant believe they let such people run arround with guns.

Ho and to come back to napoleon, russia indeed burned everything down but france isnt next to russia there is some space between it.

And yeah you need an army to defend yourself but why thehell praise it when you never get attacked but they go murder osme other people somewhere else just because some guy wants to get in the history books. And the guy that used the WMDs that he got from him is the bad guy.
"having them is not the problem using them is" WTF
having them is the worst. You cant use them if you dont have them. HO but its to scare other people. Yeah right people are not gone attack you because you have those weapons but you attack them because they are a threat to you.

the people of iraq cheer in the streets, the butcher of bagdhad is finally out of power and in jail about to face justice. and a bunch of kids that aren't even old enough to vote would rather talk shit about the only man in the world that had the balls to do it than realize what has just been accomplished. i'm not calling you stupid because you're so young, but mark my words, you'll see things much more clearly in ten years from now. and wtf do you know about the economy? do you pay income taxes? property taxes? own stocks? because i do, and other than immediatly after 9/11 i've never noticed any of the economy woes that are so often spoken about on t.v. and unless you own a huge company neither will you. polls don't mean shit, they never have, but with all the shit that the euros and kids like you have given bush, he still has a higher approval rating than reagan and clinton had at the same time in their presidencies. what does that tell you? it tells me that the majority of the american people agree with me, not you.
what just happened this week was a great day for all iraqis and a very important day in international history. if gore were the president i'd praise him the same way, but he's not, bush is the president and he's the man that had the nuts to do what everybody wanted done but didn't want to do. hell even the french and germans are now offering to releive large portions of iraqi debt, all because saddam has been captured. the leading democratic nominee dean (who if he had his way saddam would still be in power) has even congratulated bush on this victory. can you say concede?

The french and germans give money to rebuild iraq and help them, its stupid if you thought that they now think the war was all good and that it was wrong of them to say something the allmighty bush didnt liked.
Ho its good saddam is captured and no longer a chief of the iraqis but i still think the same of this war as before they captured him.
I think every american president wants to go to war atleast onces when his still president.
Come on if you had the power to go and kill some poor bastards I bet you would go and kill them.
And thats why I think we should attack america and make sure they wont get power again.

the french and germans give money to rebuild iraq?...not yet they haven't
and you're suggesting that your country attack america to make sure we won't get power again?

...WOW and i thought my dealer had the hook up ;)
son what ever you're smokin...i want some

yeah me too.

:P


So I divine from your argument that you believe that because the power exists we must use it. See, I have to power to go kill many people RIGHT NOW - with my car, with a gun, with a knife, whatever - but I choose not to! Dear lord watch any freakin movie from the past 20 years and you'll see similar themes.

I'm glad people like you aren't in charge on any major power in the world today (though N. Korea and Cuba are run by people with that outlook it seems).

In theory, if the French banded with China (who owns the U.S. with its trade deficits) and sabotaged toy shipments of Chinese products headed to Wal-Mart with a biological and or chemical agent, that would take care of a good 2/3rds of the U.S population. After that it would be a question of strategically taking out a power plant in order to cause another massive blackout, thus allowing the full invasion to commence from French Canada via the great lakes. Simultaneously, the Chinese could incite uprisings in the multitude of "China towns" that exists in nearly every major city. After that, Nuke, wait 10,000 years and inhabit, really not that complicated guys.

French Canada couldn't invade through the Grate Lakes though, not without invading Ontario first.

Then they'd have to get past the Michigan Militia, those gun toting, bomb making yahoos from up north.

But it was a beautiful story =D

LMFAO ;D @ Spetz

If you really think any country could invade the United States you're obviously smoking too much greens. Any simple uprisings in any china town would be completely squashed with our National Guard within a day. And to think some troops could just walk over our border is absurd. The only possible thing China could do to us would be to launch some ICBM's...which of course would be stupid seeing as how we would launch right back, thus leading to the end of us all.

Twas a good story though as Bucc stated, and yea I saw a special on those Michigan Milita guys on Niteline or one of them shows, those dudes are crazy but have some valid opinions.

Well the Chinese and Russians may not be able to cross the border, but there are brigades of Mexicans coming over the Rio Grande everyday.

Down boy... I don't think you want to open that topic.

.::|N| Noto

Um... Brigades?  More like carnival folk who don't know how to read, write, wash, think, drive, or carry a tune.  The dirty Mexicans that cross our border just bring more shame to what Mexico could be.  Besides, the ones that are crossing the Rio aren't the smart ones of the bunch.  I mean come on, who would want to sneak into Texas or Southern California??  At least take a raft or an inner tube over to Florida.  ;)

.::|N| Noto

heh didn't know they got monster garage in cuba...

http://havanajournal.com/culture_comments/P735_0_3_0/

Yeah, I caught that one, too, but was so shocked that he said it that I just couldn't say anything about it at the time.....lol

1. The weed I use is homegrown you cant find that stuff  at your dealer next door.
2. Bush got elected to president, so I think I make a good chance of getting president and then I rule the world MUHAHAHAHAHAHa...
would be fun a free mac for all! hoo i would love it.

3. There is a difference between killing people with your car, then you are just sick, and make evryone believe you and let those poor bastards sacrifice themselfes for you in  a war that they believe is right, that is just being smart.(other people call it sick to but hey that is just the dumb crowd that doesnt notice when they are being used)

4.Did somebody edited my post?? If I remember well I writed some more things in it.

no 'last edit by' line. that means nobody has touched your post

It's like... we're speaking the same language, but I don't have a clue as to what he's saying...  Franglish? Englench? Ebonics anyone?

.::|N| Noto

Dutch but I can speak french if you want

Wow, those pot commercials were right.  That shit will honk you up.
Silly man
"And thats why I think we should attack america and make sure they wont get power again."

please clarify the "we".  Besides Cuba and Iran, I dont' think you would have too many takers.  And even then you have a bunch of nuts who would shoot at each other before they even got here.

US and british guys shot at eachothers also so ill take that as normal :)
and we will be me and my cat

I've think this qualifies PLOPje to enter the Biggest Douce in the Universe Contest.

i seem to remember friendly fire coming from the American side only. correct me if i'm wrong. here's a little snippet: http://www.siteboard.de/cgi-siteboard/archiv.pl?fnr=24&read=1297 (http://www.siteboard.de/cgi-siteboard/archiv.pl?fnr=24&read=1297)

well, i wont denie ( or howere its spelled) that age wont help me gain more wisdom, and maybe the war was a bad example, i just think there were other ways of handling things.

I also hear alot of things that really piss me off, things like:
the new "Healthy forest act" which is bullshit, don't even fucking tell me that this bill is legit.
the possible privitisation of National forests, "Wellcome to Starbucks-Yellow Stone Park"
(IF YOU HAVE NOTICED BY NOW IM A TREE HUGGER)
Drilling for oil in ANWAR
... and i just feel in general that he is not doing the best he could, but then (to ague myself...) what is the best? and who can preform it?

I wish that more time could be spent on the more beautiful things in life... i.e. nature, family, communities...

and no offense, but i believe that it is unfair to say that iraq is happy, its  about a 50% split, and i believe that we didn't really help iraq too much, in other words, will the death and destruction break even with "help" that were are bring.... i just don't think so.

Open to enlightenment.... :)
-T

Well here you go MRT.  There is currently more power being produced in Iraq than at any time before the war.  Over 1200 schools have been reconditioned, and I should not even have to mention that most of the country, not half, is celebrating in the streets at Saddam's capture.  The militant's are actually a vast minority that had it good during Saddam's rule.

As for the Healthy Forest Act.  People like you caused those very forest fires that destroyed Southern California so congratulations.  Natural fires happened all the time before men interveened.  Fire is a natural rejuvinator for the forests.  If you try to stop every single one at the expense of people's homes near the forests than you must do something to keep the forests cleared enough so that a catostophic fire will not begin again.

As an intern for Ohio Public Interest Research Group (A nonpartisan, nonprofit group) http://www.ohiopirg.org/ , I know for a fact that the Bush's regime "Clear Skies Act" is a load of bull shit, that would roll back the Clean Air Act and would lessen restrictions on polluters. Personally, this is of utmost importance to me because my state, Ohio was recently ranked as having the worst air in the nation. I value my fresh air and the environment, and I want to see my children's children having the same opportunities. If we allow the Bush regime to butcher basic environmental protections and cater to the needs of big business, there won't be much of an environment for our children's children to inherit.

i love how you call the president and his staff "the bush regime". what did you call the last president and his staff? or is this a newly aquired militant phase you're going through?

regime-R'egime \R['e]`gime"\ (r?`zh?m"), n. [F. See Regimen.] 1. Mode or system of rule or management; character of government, or of the prevailing social system. I called former President Clinton's regime the "Jive talkin crackas, with a hard-on for a pardon". Actually, I got that out of a Hustler but it sounds good. This is not a newly acquired militant phase, rather the embryonic stage of my personal Revolution, with the culmination being the violent and bloody overthrow of the government from the top down.

Hathcock if you knew anything about the fucking health forest act, you would know that it acually make the fire cycles worse. and don't make any fucking retarded ass asumptions that i belong to the people that started the fires, because i bet i have spent way more time in the forest, than your yupee-city-slicker ass has, so fuck you, and learn before you preech.

Wow, I guess I forgot all about that time when I had to evacuate my home due to a 10,000 acre forest fire along with the few hundred other families that live within a few miles of my home.  So perhaps it is you that should not, how did you put it, "make any fucking retarded ass asumptions."

Perhaps you can explain why a little logging and some preventive burns is a bad thing.  I admitedly don't know everything about the Healthy Forest Act but I do know some details about it.  

And maybe try to make an intelligent comment instead of swearing all over the forum.  It's colorful in the real world but on a forum it just makes you look stupid.

Spetsnaz, all of the PIRG groups, especially CalPIRG, are so far to the left it isn't even funny. To sit there and say otherwise is a load of shit and you know it. That is like saying that you are a part of a non-partisan pro-life group...give me a break.

Cutter: Bashing of the President happens from both sides, depending on who is in office. For the most part, people vocally out against Bush think that Clinton was the best President ever while those for Bush were for the most part against Clinton. It is the nature of American politics that they are now out and about against Bush - if it weren't the Iraq war, it would be something else.

As for everyone else: Bring this back on topic or else I will lock it. Feel free to discuss these other issues in new threads if you choose to make them.

PsYcO, Im not in California, no shit some of its members may be idealogically left, you think a group that concerns itself with issues of public interest and environmental well being would not be left on the poltical spectrum? Never once in my previous post did I attempt to paint it as otherwise, but it is a nonpartisan organization, meaning it does not outright support either political party, it focuses itself on the actual issues rather than partisan squabbles. Thanks for your blurb of enlightenment though.

God, I love the political threads.

So Saddam is captured, good, one less bad leader with control in this world.  It still in no way justifies going to war based on misleading pretexts.  Was Saddam going to start WWIII? not likely.  Was he going to attack the US? probably not, and how.  Iraq was already in check.  The UN might not have had the most ultimate grip on him, but I doubt the international community would allow Saddam to get away with anything more than he already was.  His grip on Iraq would not have lasted forever either.  So Bush, in essence, created unnecessary international friction in the name American Security, but really intended to appease his corporate cronies, and maybe even massage his macho ego.  He basically pulled the cake out of the oven early so he and his friends could all get first dibs, and even take the credit.      

What about North Korea?  How about Saudi Arabia, where the terrorist came from?  Pakistan?  The Bush "regime" has it's own buddy agenda, that from what I can tell, has nothing to do with me or any of you guys on here.  He is protecting us from what or whom?  He only seems to be disrupting more shit around the world, and meanwhile letting our economy and education deteriorate.  His "war on terror" has yet to address the key issue behind all of this terror:  The social stigma created by impoverished, uneducated, misled people.  I believe history will show that this "terror" is a bi-product of American Policy of the last 30-40 years.  "We are paying today for serious mistakes made out of ignorance, paranoia, and an excessive trust in arms and power," - Clyde Prestowitz, Rogue Nation.  And instead of fixing the problem, it is the same ignorant American policy that will be digging us into a deeper state of fear and need for revenge.  People up top (who are also effectively running the show) will be generating and compounding wealth, holding power, while the mass majority of American people and our descendants pay in lives and debt, ALL IN THE NAME OF OUR OWN PROTECTION!

I'm not a typical religious person, but what about those leaders who present themselves as devoted Christians.  Were they reminded of Jesus' teachings during Christmas?  Were they ever?  How many call yourselves Christian? And did you back the war?  Maybe you still don't understand the principles on which Christianity was founded.  Someone explain to me the HYPOCRISY.  Or let's stop pretending to be religious.

Noto:  Clarify this for me buddy.  If you voted for Bush knowing you were really voting for his puppet master (constituency) then you knowingly voted for.... Haliburton and big Oil, Christian Coalition, and well-to-do others as our leaders?  I give you this: Colin Powel -s e e m s- like a swell guy.  But this can't be right.  I think I know you better.  

It might be easy to pick on Mrt because he's somewhat logically young, but his opinions are mature.  He's right about knowing that health forest act inside and out before backing it.  Every one of these proposed bills seems to be, especially lately, masking something else that either takes the edge off, knocks the knees out, or is completely opposite of what it seems to be intended for.  Hrmmm, kinda like the war on Iraq;  point.  (Maybe it is a good act, maybe not.  I have not read it either)  

"We are willing to become citizens of the world, but only if the world becomes an extension of the United States."
- James Warburg
Council on Foreign Relations

"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace in a continual state of alarm (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing them with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." -H.L. Mencken

I think Spets has been reading too much H.L. Mencken.....lol