*DAMN R6 Forum

lol you're a sad character. you think that the amount of killings a country make is going define their culture? just goes to show how simple minded you are. i have actually had the oppurtunity to experience the best of both worlds, america and france, and to tell you the truth, france had alot more to offer. have you ever been there ghost sniper?

pwned. Fucking french bastards saying that we suck for going on the spree against sadam and then when we do a pretty good job they "back us" Fuck em all. oh wait im an admin i cant have an oppinion FUXORZ!

french military?.....whats that?

ahaha no. iraq isnt going too smooth for bush. i mean sure, they went in there, blew them out of power, and are attempting to restructure a new government, but they didn't get what they really went there for; saddam and his "weapons of mass destruction". id say bush fucked up worse then his dad this time. america doesn't look too hot, from an unbiased point of view.

1. you're a hipocrite
2. i'm from the uk, im just stuck in your country for a while
3. i'm sure the world would be alot happier if the us didn't insist on promoting war instead of peace.
4. can't blame france for disliking americans, i would be pretty annoyed if i every time an american spoke of my country their topic is "oh yeah well we saved your asses"

edit; btw, since when is war and death something to joke and make fun of? i'm sure you'd make a fantastic ambassador (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/YaBBImages/icon_lol.gif)

i'm not posting to save France's reputation. i'm posting to voice my loathing for the ignorance of mankind, of which you are an unrivaled example.


have an oblivious day  ;)

rofl!

That's the best one. Nice job, Ghost.

Bronto, I happen to find it ignorant to believe that the world is this happy placve where violence does not exist, and that if we just ignore it, it will go away.  Europe has become a place of calm for the most part, which seems to cloud the minds of some of its citizens into thinking that the whole world must act this way or something is wrong.  
     I would have thought that being British you would have remembered your history better.  50 years ago you let a madman run lose with nothing more than a signed document saying that he would be nice.  I'm not saying that Sadaam is Hitler or that his country had anything near the military might of 1940's Germany, but in this era, where a single weapon can kill millions, how can we afford to let someone like Sadaam run lose?  
      He laughed at the UN for the last decade and nobody had the balls to stand up to even his meager army.  Unfortunately, there are still people in this world that only respond to force.  And many times a man like that comes to power, and therefore that whole country will only respond to force.  The only way for evil to win in this world, is for good men to do nothing.  (I have forgotten the original authour of that quote. If someone could remind me I would appreciate it)

Actually, its  

"The only thing necessary for the triumph [of evil] is for good men to do nothing."

edmund Burke.

btw, he was an english philosopher.

Thank you for clarifying that for me Bob.

I think Ghostsniper is the epitimy of a stereotypical American War Monger. You throw around dates without insight. Stop making threads about your "patriotic" views. You seem to be proud of the wrong things. Next thing I know you will be telling me that Patton defeated Rommel.

Hazard

i agree with hazard. ghostsniper, wars dont mean that much. Look at russia, historically a country ravaged by xenophobia and repressive dictators. Even when they did go to war and win(which, in terms of major wars, you probably cant count on both your hands) they lost thousands of men. Yet Russia has produced some of the finest writers of the past two hundred years(Dostoevsky, Gogol, Pushkin Chekov and tolstoy to name just a few) plus inemberable works of art. its the same with france, what about amazing french food, wines, art work? what about the contribution of democracy they made by overthrowing an oppressive regime in the french revolution and setting a precedent for so many other revolutions.

ive said it before, and ill say it again: no wonder the rest of the world doesnt like us

But what wars has Russia lost?  Afghanistan?  The cold war?  


Actually, the American Revolution set the precedent, not the French Revolution.  And it really made a mess of things until Bonaparte became emperor, which is a very nice mirror to Germany and Hitler, btw.

I'll also say this about the French.  In my experience, they tend to be very vocal about how bad America is, blaming anything and everything that our government does on each of us, without even knowing our own feelings on it.  That's true of many of the people on this board.  But France's government, just to mention one, has knowingly done as much wrong as America's government.  I think the French and the Brits are just much better at covering things up then we Americans are.  Frances government has done as many or more things to be ashamed of then the US government has.  They are just more subtle about it.  And it's very easy for them to point fingers at us, it distracts everyone from their faults.

I don't really see the accent. Maybe you americans don't words with more than 2 syllables.

the crimean war, peters invasion of sweden, they secumbed to the mongol hoard for over two hundred years....


are you saying bucc, that they shouldnt have revolted?

For All the Retards slagging of the French please Shut the F*ck up unless you have anything intellegent to say. All those who are American and are insulting the french well please STFU and F Off. Try taking a look at your own country - suddenly france looks like one hell of a nice place. Jesus when I compare France against America hell the US wouldn't have the smallest hope in hell. Shit look how well america is succeeding in fucking the world up recently... And they think they are the "Defenders of Democracy" ??

This of Course is Steriotyping Americans... Who i know for a fact are not all like this - far from it. but please stfu rather than ranting on about the world which so many people have so little knowledge about...

Ps. Im not French, Im not American... And im not fucking happy

I agree with some of BFG's points but it is fact that they did lose all those wars, the ties are purely opinion though.  Napoleon was born on an Italian island(don't remember if one or two of his parents were Italian) He came to power in France because he attended military school there since he was 8.

What's opinion? The way you make a tie sound like a bad thing. Most of the wars you declared ties were because the French were against a coalition!


France initiated the war,  took Franche Comte. The inability of Spain to defend itself led to the Triple Alliance. England Sweden and the United provinces fought against France. Aftermath: France gained territory in Flanders.[/color]


The war ended with the Treaty of Nijmegen in 1678 this granted France control of the Franche-Comt? from Spain.


France and Spain lose to a coalition. What do you expect when outnumbered? I would view this as more of a victory then a defeat. They went up against the super powers of the world, what more do you expect when you are attacked on all sides even through your colonies by a superior force?

I didn't see you mentioning Napoleon was from Corsica.. and what is with you belittling Italians?

Italian Generals:

Scipio Africanus: Defeated Hannibal who trounced Roman armies on Italian soil unopposed defeating capable generals. one of the rare showdowns of great generals. He paved the way for Caesar because the people loved him so much they wanted him to be "sovereign and dictator for life"

Gaius Julius Caesar: His tactics are still studied today at West Point one of the top military schools in the world.

Geribaldi(spelling): Played a key part in the unification of Italy.

I have nothing against you personally Ghostsniper, just in the way you present your facts with an arrogant American attitude that the rest of us get stereotyped for.

geribaldi didnt just "play a key role" didnt he come from piedemont(sp?) in northeran italy, and go to sicily, where he estentially conquered his way back up to the north?

Yes, that is a key part....

1. if you had read my posts you would have noticed that i am in living in america and am experiencing what you experience with the war, so you can dismiss that whole 'Europeans having cloudy minds' bs because it doesnt apply to me.
2. you can dismiss it also because its false, europeans have had just enough terror added up to get a real sense of what its like, while america had remained unshaken. you just have your history a little foggy because all you see and hear is american media, its ok. besides, me being from britain i should know about the IRA launching deadly attacks in britain and northern ireland countless times.
3. dismiss the whole part where you try and teach me a lesson in british history because my ethnicity doesn't have much to do with the core argument here: that mocking france is ignorant.
4. remove the sadaam running loose business because you still have no proof he had weapons, there were other, more peaceful options that could have been taken, before war, and lastly you still havent caught the bastard yet, so don't say "how can we afford.." when you still are affording to let him run loose. get him and the bombs before you lodge that argument.
5. if sadaams meager army did indeed have these weapons of mass destruction, it would seem like attacking them might instigate some kind of nuclear war? scratch that part of your argument, because it's not going to change anyones view on the US deciding to "step up" to iraq.

i would go on but you don't have much for me tear apart at the moment. i'll go see what else these people posted.

well they must be doing a damn good job, if even you've never heard anything about it bucc.

It really is true, Americans do view other countries as 3rd world compared to our "great society". I cannot belive all the French bashing that goes on. It is totaly uncalled for and If you've never even been to the country your talking shit about keep your mouth shut. France is much cleaner than most parts of the US and although not all french people are little angels neither are most americans.


The typical US view of other countries is that if you don't support us your the emeny which is in total disregard to the 1st amendment. i.e. frances involvement in the Iraq war, They are hated upon merley because they disagreed with the views of bush( I would have to agree with them).
I am just putting my oppinion out about this topic, and I think people should have somthing better to do than to just bash other countries because you feel that they are infirior to you.


Peace,
|GM|Kuza:.

First off by saying "I didn't see you mentioning Napoleon was from Corsica" just meant that I overlooked it.

There is a HUGE difference between an Iraqi coalition and a European coalition.

So your saying that, the war you described had more utilization of military resources and tactics?? Your saying those countries compared militarily to the countries France was against?

I wasn't belittling their accomplishments I was saying on the larger scale they don't compare to the European forces such as England and Austria. I doubt the soldiers and weaponry would match up.

Don't put words into my mouth and don't distort history for me. And what of my beliefs? The only beliefs I have is that you are attacking the French in an unfair way.

I support the war in Iraq mainly because I have a great respect for soldiers. Am I mad at the French? Ya, I don't like them but the way you put a spin on them is wrong. You basically shit on soldiers who sacrificed their lives in WWI and WWII to protect their families because after they died for it we fucked their widows.  That's why I'm so against this post, that's why you are narrow-minded.

Hazard

I think this topic is null and void and serves no perpose to anyone

That's like me saying that all Canadians have trouble with simple division and conversion because of you Myst.  Thanks for stereotyping.


I'm saying that your facts were mixed up over who "fired the shot heard round the world".  That it was the American Revolution that kicked that off, before the French Revolution.

I'm also saying that they did make a mess of their revolution.  Their society was in shambles afterwards.  And that like Germany after WWI, they were ripe for the picking of a martinet with delusions of ruling the world.


Did I say I hadn't?  I said better, not perfect.  Let's talk about arm sales to Iraq, shall we?  Suez Canal?  The french soldiers killed in Africa last month?  Algiers?  The Rainbow Warrior bombing? Pacific Nuke testing? The assassination of Ahmad Shah Masood?

I'm just saying that if America could cover up that well, we'd still believe that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone.

First off, Ghost Sniper didnt type that Ace linked it to me a long time ago (it kinda sounded like some of you thought he typed it)

Second America has only had one military defeat and a stalemate in its short history. Its a bit unfair to compare America's record to say a country like my motherland who has been around as an organized state for 1200 years.

Third, I want to clear up some inaccuracies about my country that were stated in this thread. Peter never invaded Sweden, infact we won that war against Sweden. At the start of it we were being defeated by them. The battle of Narva was really an embarassment in our history, but we defeated them in Poltava and seized Finland, Reval (Tallinn), Livonia, and Lithuania from them. True Peter did suffer a defeat on the Swedish homeland. He still won the war. America was defeated in Kasserine Pass, but they went on to be a victor in World War II.

 I also want to agknowledge to win a war is who accomplishes the objectves.
 For instance, the French won the Hundred Years War because they accomplished the given objectives. They secured British Aquitane and Toulouse. The Dauphain kept his claim to the throne, not the English King. Over all the British were left with Calais and failed to get the throne.

The French do deserve a bit more credit than they are given. True they dont have the biggest baddest army. Keep in mind, the French Foreign Legion was a very skilled unit throughout time. You also cant really blame the Gauls for being defeated by the Romans, I mean who wasnt defeated by the Romans they are the most badass civilization to walk this Earth.

Oh and I'll admit to you that we lost in Afghanistan as long as you people dont pull the "America didnt loose VietNam we withdrew" excuse.

Fourth. America's Military is over rated especially its history. For instance the Soviet Union could have taken Germany all by herself, but America couldnt. This isnt due to America being incompetant. By no means no. Its due to America's geographic location to Germany. Russia could have just sent tank after tank across the steepes. America would have had to ship all its supplies with no stopovers (unlike the Pacific).

Not to mention America's so called way of projecting power through aircraft carriers is inefficent. China and Russia would be able to blow most if not all aircraft carriers up. The so called infamous Sunburn missile would be able to swoop down 9 meters above sea level and blow one of those hunk of junks up. The legendary Phalanx is placed to high to take them out. Type Sunburn missile in google and find out about them. I swear I am not full of ultra pan-slavic shit.

Fifth I want to second the fact that it is not a military history of a country that states a nations use to civilization. France isnt glorious militarily but has produced some of the finest thinkers and artists in this world. Mollier and Voltaire along with the rest of the philisophes were some of the most influencial people in the world. They helped to set off the spark that lead to the American Revolution. They started to question the "devine right to rule" during the Age of Absolutionism. I dont think I need to mention the impressionism and all the other artistic acheivments the French have made. In short, France is an asset to the culture of mankind that should not be overlooked by anyone because they do not invest their energy into arms.

Sixth. Dien Bein Flu <- Thats halarious.

Only two problems Sack.

First, you forget to mention that Russia wouldn't go to war, support America with Japan.  So America was fighting on two fronts, Russia on one.

Second, I wouldn't agree that Russia could have taken Germany by itself.  We'll never know that one for sure, because they didn't have to.

Oh, and as for the Sunburn, it's not the threat that you make it out to be.  It's fired by ships, not planes, right?  Land and ship based cruise missile is how it's labeled in everything I've read.  And it has a range of 65miles.  Well, that means that the ship that fires it will have to get well within the defense radius of a carrier group to get the shot off.  

The missile itself is fast, low, and unstoppable once in the air, I'll give you that, but they have to get close enough to actually launch it first.

Don't forget, you also have to find an aircraft carrier, and they are hard to sneak up on.  Can't say the same for most land bases.

Oh Christ...you had to bring me into this with discussion of wars and military equipment.

A) The Soviet Union did not have the means or capability to taking out Germany without a unified Western front and resupply from the West (mainly the United States). If not for Hitler's unwise decisions (even with a Western front opened up) to go North and chase the Red Army instead of leveling Moscow, the Soviet's would have been defeated and unified resistance agains the Nazi invaders would have crumbled. Even after he went up North and chased the Red Army, he still had a chance to crush the Soviet's but he decided to force his generals (who disagreed with Hitler) to attack in the notorious Russian winter instead of fortifying and pounding targets with the Luftwaffe.

B) As for the supposed ineffectiveness of American aircraft carriers...I must respectfully disagree. The Sunburn missile you just mentioned is an effective weapon if the destroyer/pt boat is even capable of firing it. If my memory serves me, it has approx a 250km range, meaning that the Russian ship would have to get that close to get a chance at hitting an Aircraft Carrier. It is true that this missile is 9 meters above sea level (when approaching target area - cruising alt of 20 meters), but you quickly forget that a Carrier is escorted by 10-15 ships, and probably 15-20 ships in times of war. A Phalanx on a frigate or cruiser could knock it down before it had a chance of getting close to the Carrier (if it somehow was able to be fired).

But for an enemy ship to get that close to a Carrier Battle Group is highly unlikely seeing that the strike aircraft on the carrier could deploy and sink the ship before it had a chance to close into an appropriate range (again we assume that the Russian North Fleet is in proper repairs which it is not). Not only would the aircraft be capable of sinking this ship, but also the missiles fired from surface ships or advance submarines would also be able to sink the ship in advance.

Now on to the Chinese being able to sink and aircraft carrier...

The Chinese couldn't do it unless they had a suicide wish because we could simply park several Carrier battle groups about 800 miles off shore and pound the living hell out of all of their air bases with thousands of tomahawk cruise missiles. The only way their air force could touch us is if they all scrambled at once and had no intention of coming back because they do not have the fuel efficiency to carry out a strike and make it back to their home base.

While you think you might know about possibly destroying a Carrier Battle Group, you neglect to think of the tactics that go along with it. An attempt to take one out would be met with a stiff resistance followed by an asswhooping that the attacker would soon regret.

So here is my stereotype of french people, before this spirals into a bush sucks thread...
(http://homepage.mac.com/farmerjeb/french.jpg)

Btw, i don't think france has billions invested in korea, mb they will help there.
-jewb
ps. go team

You might be interested by a french's opinion on this thread.

Honestly, I could not care less about what people like GhostSniper think about any other country, or anything at all.

Sunburns can be fired by airplanes, they can be outfitted on SU-27 Flanker attack aircraft. What I am trying to get across as a point is that carriers are good for small piss ant countries like Iraq Iran yadda yadda yadda. I am trying to outline the danger the American military has made by making much of their military might centered on one ship. I am trying to underline the ineffectiveness of having all your power invested in one ship. Also it is very easy to get close to an American Aircraft Carrier. It happens all the time. Russia is very good at pully pranks. There have been a few instances where russian subs collided with air craft carriers. There have been fly-bys over them by other nation's aircraft.

The point is, that your military is too centralized around this machine. So much material and human resources are cramped together under one roof.

Here is an article on the aircraft version http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/row/moskit.htm (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/row/moskit.htm)

First off, I have to seriously doubt that a Russian submarine would have rammed a carrier or that any foreign plane would give it a flyby. If a submarine rammed a carrier, it would be damaged to the point where it would have sunk...not only that, it would have been considered an act of war. As for flyby's, it would never happen unless they were given permission or the command had previous knowledge because the approach of a non-friendly aircraft would trigger the automatic self defenses and a Phalanx gun or Sea Sparrow missile would blow it out of the sky. WHat I am talking about is only during times of peace....during a wartime situation with another country that had even the remotest capacbility of hitting a Carrier, CAP's would be stepped up and there would be multiple E2C Hawkeye surveilance craft to monitor the area around a Carrier Battle group. You make it seem like it is easy to get in close to a Carrier battle group and it really isn't.

The purpose of the aircraft carrier is to provide a mobile airfield and a command and control structure in times of war. America's main strategy in any war is to gain air superiority (tomahawk the hell out of enemy airfields and launch strike aircraft to rule the skies) and the aircraft carrier is the ideal method of delivering this if no land bases are within range of other strike aircraft. An aircraft carrier battle group is also bar none king of the ocean because nothing an enemy force could muster could mange to sink one of these, much less the 7-8 we would utilize in case of war with another country. Point being, the Aircraft Carrier is the ideal method of projecting American military superiority around the world. It is the symbol of dominance that keeps potential foes at bay realizing that we could have a Carrier anywhere in teh world within a 24 hour time period.

Also, dont think so highly of your homeland's military. They are so underfunded and lacking that they cannot maintain their fleet as it is - surface, submarine, air, or land. They have resorted to selling off technologies and older equipment to countries like China just to maintain basic self defense needs.

Ghost you said that the italians only beat 2 other countries in war.. that not compleatly true... remeber the Roman Empire..... Romans were italian.. just b4 the country on Italy was formed as it is today on the maps.
sry had to stand up for my ancestors.. me being an Italian american (my grandmother migrated to the USA from Italy)

Hey Sack, read that article.  It's a carrier airplane that they slung the mini missile to.  

Also, that plane still needs to get within the 65 mile range of the missile.

And I don't think you are giving carrier battle groups enough credit.  It's not like we have just one or two carriers.  And a carrier doesn't sail alone.  

As for your pranks, you must remember there are different rules about war time and peace time.  

And since when are aircraft carriers our only weapon?  I mean, ok, the Battle Ships are now gone (but can come back if needed, some still exist).  But you are still only talking about one branch of the military.  The air force doesn't fly off carriers, and neither does the army.  Hell, the B2's even leave on missions from inside the US, they aren't even deployed out in the forward areas.

One more point.  Many people felt the same way about Soviet tanks, being better then American tanks, and in such great numbers.  This was a big worry about the cold war.  But history showed what a few good Apache gun-ships and good tactics can do to Russian tanks (and damn Iraq had a bunch of them to use as targets back then). And it's not like the Apache is even state of the art (those honors would go to the Comanche).  

That point being: it ain't all in the weapon, it's also in how you use it.  

The thing about aircraft carriers, and why we rely on them so often is most of the population on the planet lives near a coast.  Most of the countries on the planet have a coast.  This means that we don't need to get permission to fly over say Iran or Turkey to get at them.  We just come at them from the water.  That is a much bigger deal then most people think.  

Ghost, this is the most stupid post I?ve ever seen from you! Actually it makes sick, laughing with another country?s war history, its like laughing with all the ppl who died during the war, who gave their life to save their country and their families.

Oh but it feels great, acting like you?re the hero, you served in the military... its not like you?ve been there, its not like you always live in fear day after day...

Well ghost, there are ppl who live in fear day after day, and those ppl happen to live in some countrys in Europe. Well maybe you should laugh with them. Because you live in a big nice house in America...

Maybe you could consider some facts here:
- History is history, and France has a longer history then the US
- If one French one day says the US governement are all assholes, then all french ppl say it, maybe whole Europe says it, so it seems to you!
- Another fact, how the hell can you compare a country as France with the US? Look at the size of France... Oh the US has a bigger army... well duh! You also have more ppl living over there.

You don?t know shit about the French ppl, so don?t judge them. And stop your stupid racist posts against French ppl and other europeans!

Oh I could mention lots of stuff where the US fucked up:
like why couldn?t they prevent 11 september?
where is Saddam? umm, where is Bin Laden?
who made the most stupid mistake of dropping 2 atomic bombs?
what happens when there is a power malfunction? Oh an entire state looses their power!
Oh, and I don?t see ppl getting shot in the middle of the street in France.

Don?t pretend the US is such a great state, France isn?t either, but at least we?re not making this kind of stupid racist posts.

By this I withdraw from |GM| because I can?t be part of a clan where a member is acting like Hitler was a racist when he?s makin the same mistakes.
And all of this on a fuckin GAME FORUM!!!!

bye! >:( >:( :( >:( >:(

ps: Libert?, fraternit? et ?galit?, c'est quelque chose que tu ne vas jamais comprendre! (je suis pas fran?ais, je suis belge, je parle n?erlandais, mais j'ai des collegues qui sont fran?ais)

pps: GELIJKHEID! SNAPT GE'T GELIJKHEID! Waarshijnlijk niet, want voor u zijn al andere landen ondergeschikt, gij voelt u zo machtig, maar integenstelling bij het minste is er een nationaal drama!

Sentinel If I could clap my hands loud enough for you to hear me i would. Nice to see someone with a) their head screwed on and b) just with some decency.

Big thumbs up Sentinel :D

ghost mate..... read sentinals post on here..... he's not a happy bunny... once youve done reading that.... go onto our private forum.... theres things to be discussed.....

cya later

ghost cant get onto aol at work... well at least i dont think i can.... lemme check

Now to contribute to some anti-frenchness with some jokes i found on a website somewhere...

Why wouldn't the Statue of Liberty work in France??
Because she has only one arm raised.

How do you separate the men from the boys in France?
With a crowbar.

Why don't cheesburgers sell well in France
Because they don't smell like shit

How do you confuse a French Soldier??
Give him a rifle and ask him to shoot it.

Why did the French celebrate their World Cup Championship in 2000 so wildly?
It was their first time they won anything without the help of the U.S.

How many frenchmen does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
One, because he holds the bulb and all of Europe revolves around him.

Did you hear that the Post Office had to recall its series of stamps depicting famous Frenchmen?
People were confused about which side to spit on.

What does a French military alliance and a French romance have in common?
Both are brief, sordid, and completely meaningless.

What do you call a Frenchman advancing on Baghdad?
A salesman

A French rifle is for sale on e-bay.
It's never been fired but I heard it's been dropped once.

and finally
How many jokes are there about the French?
One, the rest are true

 ;)

Ghost, I will talk to you on Gameranger...

I've posted the reply in madness, you know me, I can't help myself sometimes (>> cb's :( )...

Just one more thing to add:


Doesn't France, Belgium or other European countries have soldiers in Irac, Afghanistan and other countries to protect the peace?

All I'm trying to say is don't blame a whole nation for the mistakes of a few.
I blame Bush for many things, but that doesn't change my point of view upon the American citizens, I like most Americans.
So pls stick with the small jokes about Europeans... But don't involve the whole nation.

Tnx,
Sent. (cya on gameranger)

Hey Sent, just have to rebuff some things you mentioned.  I realize you were posting in anger, and things get confused.  

First, it is virtually impossible to stop a man who is determined to die in order to accomplish his mission.  We've seen that all over the world lately and now in Turkey this morning.

And with regards to the atmic bombs.  They saved a hell of a lot more lives than they took.  Nobody can even contemplate the casualties of invading Japan.  The war department estimated American casualties alone at 1million.  So don't give me the bs that dropping the nukes was a bad idea, it probably saved 10million lives by ending the war w/o an invasion.

Ya the power fuckup seemed to have been cause by a single tree shorting out a high voltage line.  I'll give ya that one :)  Budget cuts are  a bitch.  But then again, we did not lose 10,000 people to a heatwave that would have been a nice summer day to many people.

I think Ghost posted this as friendly jab and nothing more.  Just a bit of humor.  We just have to remember to post a disclaimer at the end of our posts on this forum.  It's quite diverse with a lot of diferent personalities and nationalities.

Actually Sentinel, my response was directed at the American bashing that does go on.


Shall I bring up France's failures with terrorism?  Not to mention the French involvement I already mentioned in helping Saddam and Bin Laden.  (maybe you should go back and read my post again)


1) Not the US, because it wasn't a mistake to do it in WW2.
2) Shall we talk about all the INNOCENT people that France's nuclear bombs killed just half that time ago?  It's not like France was in a war, but they sure trampled on the rights of those who were protesting (legally protesting in international waters I add).


Show's how little you actually know about power and what went on.  First, don't forget to add Canada into this, since it wiped power there that was on the connected grid as well.  Second, it wasn't just a power malfunction.  Third, are you saying that a whole grid has never come down in Europe?  And never will?  What do you base that on?  Your knowledge on the actual grids and how they interconnect?


I've never seen anyone shot (other than on TV or in a game).

And, do you want me to pull up some news articles of people getting shot in France?  You know I can find them.  I just read one not too long ago where a cop died too.  

You really should have stuck with your not pointing fingers Sent, because for every finger you point, they can point back.

Hatchcock its all in the word estimate, ppl are still suffering from this atomic bomb now so don't go talking it good, because it happened and you'll never know what would happen if you didn't do it.
Thats my point of view. I've got my opinion you've got yours.

Sent

bucc,

I dont think France helped Saddam: they invested in Irak. Thats all (isn't it what the US is trying to do right now with the iraki petrol ?)

But what i do think, and there was a show about it on national TV (CNN at the time of 9/11), is that the US did "produce" AND support Bin Laden AND the Talibans in order to combat communism.

that's because the american government fully armed israel and stood by them through every conflict, even now, when the israeli army is cruelly murdering innocent arabs and muslims everyday..but of course you don't see much of that. you should take a look, they have sites dedicated to it, you don't even have to get off your fat ass. hey maybe if america had fully supported france through thick and thin, and helped them get through their conflicts they wouldn't have such a devastating history of defeat. america sat back in the world wars and let european nations be blown apart, then comes in reluctantly, after the war has already started, and claims they saved everyone's asses...and yes, the US did help very much and it's appreciated, but if they'd acted a little sooner and realized the threat that the axis had posed, millions of lives could have been saved, and the american's could gloat all they like. so saying you saved everyone's asses in ww2 is pretty naive when you think about it, seeing as they let everyone get pumelled for a few years.

Bob, France sold Iraq Nuclear technologies to build the Osirak nuclear reactor which was bombed by Israel in the 1980's. France had also sold Iraq miltary technologies such as the Mirage warfighter, antiaircraft missiles (i believe they are called ROLAND), and has acted as a broker between Chinese rocket fuel manufacturers and Iraqi missile makers.

I know that, this is called business.

This is the stupidest fucking shit I have ever read. You're judging a country on it's success in war? Let me tell you, there have been a lot of countries far worse off than France. Besides, Americans shouldn't say 'we saved your asses', the French helped your asses as well. Fucking arrogance.

Wow,
First off, ghostsniper.....you're an idiot! I'm not trying to be an ass here, but almost every post of yours i've read on these boards has been ignorant, uninformed and seems to be the result of either hopeless stupidity, lack of a decent education or simply  braindead ask-no-questions patriotism. I have a hard time even taking you seriously, since your posts make you seem like a parody of the ignorant, xenophobic and simpleminded american that is so popular everywhere around the globe. What really troubles me, however, is that you seem to "rank" nations according to how well they do in wars.....

-Israel didnt start getting weapons and support from the US until the 1960s. Initially they got their weapons from WW2 surplus, the USSR (via the czech republic) and france. So the arguement that the US is the only reason Israel exists is a stupid one. By the time of the Yom Kippur war in 1973, however, Israel was dependant on weapons from the US to the point that they probably would have been overrun without the emergency airlift of supplies from the US (they actually considered using nuclear weapons).

-Before the 91 gulf war, france had close ties to iraq (75% of iraqs conventional arsenal came from France or the USSR) and they have since remained quite cozy with them. For example, the iraqis insisted that the oil-for-food programm funds be handled by a single bank.....BNP Paribas (major french commercial bank).

-The US neither "produced", nor "supported" Bin Laden directly. The CIA did provide funds and weapons to the pakistani ISI that were destined for the afghan mudjahedeen, but bin laden was never "trained" by the CIA, nor is he the 'creation' of the US.

OK.. Im am going to ask a moderator to ban Ghost from the forums for a shot period of time.. I have asked him several times in the past not to start threads like this and he will not stop... so will a mod plz put a short ban on him posting in the gossip area.. thx

Two things:

1) France was selling weapons to Saddam.  Everyone knows this.  Just look at why the French couldn't fly over Iraq in the first gulf war is a prime example.  I wouldn't call selling weapons  an investment.

2) No, it has not been proven, just speculated, that oil is behind it.  You'll just have to wait and see before pulling that card out as a fact.

Abe covered the Bin Laden issue well.  And Assassin showed some weapons.

I'll add to Abe's comments about Isreal.  Let's not forget the first fighters that Isreal flew were French.  And that the French (along with the Brits) talked Isreal into the invasion of the Sinai, as part of their plan to retake the Suez Canal.

Gen. Harvey, I don't think he's even gotten a warning yet.  And just because you don't think he should start threads like this doesn't mean he shouldn't, does it?  I mean, it has sparked some lively debate.


Kami, if you want to talk about arrogance and ignorance, we can really discuss what help the French did, and didn't give the USA sometime.

Yea.. and also has caused interclan prob w/ some of the treads!

Yeah, but this is the place for quarrels, isn't it?

And interclan problems should stay that, inside the clan.  Not be addressed here.

harvey, sorry, no can do on the ban.
i deal with flame wars, not clan disputes

I enjoy GhostSniper's threads. It gives people a chance to debate things. I just want that statement to be known to GhostSniper.

I agree Cossack.  I think it was just meant to poke fun.  But it does get people riled up which has sparked a rather good string here.

indeed, i rather enjoyed the post. i knew it would draw some pretty heavy fire, but hey, can't say the forums are dead! Ghostsnipers threads that have gotten the most posts in the last couple months, by far. if he was just spoutin out shit nobody would respond. remember we all live in different parts of the world, were educated differently, are different ages, and have many different opinions. these are the things that start great debate.

The prolem here Serval is that nobody has said a single racist comment, thus your argument is baseless.  There have been some Nationalistic comments.  In fact, a whole lot of those, but that is not racism.  

And just to follow up from Ghost I include a great movie line.  See if you can name it :)  

"There is no racial biggotry here.  I do not look down on niggers, wamps, dikes, or greasers.  Here you are all equally worthless!"

And don't flame me for using those words, they are not in bad context and should not be inflamatory in any way.  If you feel they are than I'm sorry but you should not fear a word.

Attention french person,
http://www.google.com/language_tools
use it...

Hell yeah I'm using that for my French homework.... erm... Serval I don't see any racist comments posted from the ones that I viewed.

ah maybe i got shit in my eyes when i have read this topic

I'd just like to say that I've had a great time learning about French literature and culture in my French literature and cinema class this semester. France has made an indelible mark on the intellectual history of our world through authors like Voltaire, Moliere, Racine, Sartre, Camus, Bouvier, Irigaray, and many others. The US, although a younger nation, would have quite a bit of trouble matching France's historical influence on philosophy and literature.

OMFG its racist,hrmm im joking hehe, u r right tasty but personnally i prefer authors like boris vian,jean cocteau,jean paul sartre
P.S:if u have the occasion to read them hehe

Indeed Tasty, not to forget that the US constitution is largely built on Montesquieu's "The Spirits of Laws" from 1748. ;)

Did anyone see that episode of the cartoon. "The Critic"?  It depicts Jon Lovitz as a film critic in NYC.  It was an animated Fox TV show.  Anyway, there was this great part where there was a food fight in the cafeteria where all of the children of the UN Diplomats were eating.  All the kids were depicted wearing their stereotypical outfits from their countries of origin.  SO, the funny part was when the kids from Switzerland refrained from throwing food, and most importantly when the French kids simply surrendered while offering the enemy French bread and wine.  ;)

To get into the real history of the military of France, you will have to go back before the first world war.  As much as everyone talks about the resistence of France during both of the world wars, the French military paled in comparison to armies of that land that had fought in the century before.  Since none of us were alive then, and most of us are not history buffs or receiving a degree in French history, I think we can all agree to disagree.  I also think we can all agree that this thread was started with flames in mind.  If anyone wants a real military laugh, let's point to the Confederate States of America.  That's right folks, the Civil War of America 1861-1865.  It was the Civil War, not the war of oppression as the southerners claim.  And yes, the North won.  I think if we ever need to point and laugh at anyone, we can easily point to the United States of America.  Be careful though, I only say we can poke fun at the U.S.A. because we have more of everything in the world, therefore, it is much easier to make fun of us.

Anyone know where I can find the closest McDonald's?, my Lipitor? tablets, my copy of Penthouse?, and a smoothe carafe of Jack Daniels??  I'd like to see France pull that one off. ;)

.::|N| Noto?

Try looking into French Naval history... of course they pale in comparison to the British Royal Navy... but they definitely gave 'em (the Brits) a run for their money... Check out the Napoleon era... and all the naval battles recorded with the Brits under the command of Nelson. ....Interesting stuff.

Post script:
(Posted by a confessed fan of naval history and "big ships.")

I also participate in re-enactments of early American battles with the French & Spanish... the "Men of Menendez" are some of my favorites. If you think blowing grenades in GhR is fun, try getting "black powder" certified to shoot a real cannon.

Ahem... Alas, I'm the victim of sexual descrimination in this time period and only have the luxury of playing the part of a sailor's wench (or worse!). ;-D

All this shit about france surrendering always etc
well there smart they dont go kill everyone no they are firendly and give the others some wine and bread. While america tries to go to war everywhere and want to hold their position in the world of we are the best.
I love this threads because they only make my hate for america grow.
But theres a difference between US and europe
Us would love to go fight elsewhere but if in take my country belgium

I owuld never go fight somewhere for  my country
but I would love to kick some ass if they came to belgium

Plop, but sooner or later you do have to fight outside your country in order to defend it.  A reactionary defense is always doomed to fail.  And you contradicted yourself.  you said the French were smart to surrender their country yet you said you would "I would love to kick some ass if they came to belgium"  So since your so mad at the US, what if say.  some suicide bombers attacked your country and obviously killed themselves in the process.  So nobody is left in your country to fight yet the enemy remains.  What do you do?

Your HATE for America?  I don't think your family or your country was hating America during WWII when MY family and MY country liberated you.  Some of MY family even died in France AND Belgium during WWII.  Guess you guys LOVED them Nazis, didn't you!

***puts a flak jacket on GS****
oh wait nm, what the frogs gonna do??? Disapprove?

Plopje
What if i started sending homeless people to blow themselves up in your country? Would you just wait for me to go to your country to attack me? Then again, you would never need to, because no one will attack a country that gives us waffles.
Unless we want to take control the waffle market after we take control the oil market!

This thread should serve as another example of why war is dumb. Because it causes stupid threads ala MY ANCESTORS DID THIS BUT MY ANCESTORS DID THAT. None of you are responsible for anything your ancestors did. Maybe you will be as great as they were when you do something laudable yourself.

mmm....waffles ;D

mmmmm truffles

Cutter I have to disagree on a reactionary defence doomed to fail. My country (Russia) pushed out Napoleon, Hitler, and the King of Sweden when those countries invaded without a hint.There are more examples but I am too lazy to cite them.

Also there was no prooven link between Al Queda and the Baathists before the war (there probablly is now on account of the US attacking Iraq), so that point is moot.
It also seems that you people are changing your reasons for war every month or so. We must kill them because they have WMDs (yet to be proven and I am doubtful they will be legitly proven), we must kill them because the Iraqis need to be liberated (looks more like the Soviet "stabilization" of Afghanistan), Sadaam is a threat ( please his army and missile capability was the equivilent to a castrated puppy. How can a castrated puppy hurt America?)

what the hell are you talking about cossack? you in the right thread?

all i said was...mmm waffles

well on the first post I am dead because nobody is left to fight the enemy so I live happily in heaven. what can I do against an atom bomb trowed on my head??
So its better to surrender let the enemy come to you and then bs them in the back, much better then get yourself killed by them when trying to kill them, or way ebter then like america go wipe out the enemy before they even did something. Like you dont like oyur neighbour so you go kill him in his house and offcourse your in your right but you will never know if he was palnning to come to your house and try to kill you.
next one:
Like you said noone wants to attacka  country that gives waffles
i dont need to eb afraid of people blowing theirself up next to my house because noone has a reason to do that. Maybe if america never made osama bin laden mad the twin towers were still alive.
well ghostsniper I geuss my family liked you guys when coming here
but its 50 years later now your family died here and why because you wanted to liberate us? yeah right you guys were scared that russia was gone get to us first
we were just some playball that 2 big countries were fighting for, you guys fighted here for your own reasons to not only to liberate us.
Ho and do the black people there still ahte every white man because their ancestors were slaves, I geuss not. What is past is past. i would love america if they were good now but no they still do things I dont like.

and I have a question for you americans who hate the french did you already hated them before Bush wanted to invade iraq and they didnt like that?
and everyon out there started to freak on the french(renaming french fries etc)

Cutter the first part was to you and the second part was to someone that said there was a link between al qaeda and sadaam before the war around 10 posts back or so. I really gotta use the quote button.

While not military, good. ;)

"I think that gay marriage is something that should be between a man and a women" - Arnold.

"As we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns -- the ones we don't know we don't know." - Donald Rumsfield

About pre-emptive war and why it works: http://denbeste.nu/cd_log_entries/2003/12/AletterfromTehran.shtml (http://denbeste.nu/cd_log_entries/2003/12/AletterfromTehran.shtml)

As for the French, I have no problem in general with the French people or French culture. I do however, have a problem with those specific French people, just like those specific American people, who have this irrational hatred of America, characterized by an irrational hatred of G.W. Bush. I myself hold issue with many of GW's positions (particuarly on the religious issues), but from an objective standpoint, he's done what was needed to protect the US from terrorist attacks while trying to minimize human deaths and promote individualism and freedom - if we REALLY believed that just blowing the enemy up was the answer, no major islamic city would be left standing 3 days after 9-11. Peace is NOT made by signing agreements with the enemy and allowing them to walk over you, peace is made through showing the enemy that if he attacks you, you attack him right back. An excellent recent (albeit fantasy) novel by Terry Goodkind titled "Naked Empire," the latest in the excellent "Sword of Truth" series, details this flawed philosophy of never responding to force with force. This philosophy has been presented by many "great" thinkers in the past 2000 years, from Jesus Christ, Ghandi, Mendela, to our political and religious leaders today. Don't take me as a crazy follower of Ayn Rand (who presents good points, but sometimes goes too far in her soultions IMHO), but it seems to me from a thinking, intelligent standpoint, that "loving your enemy" just lets him walk all over you, and do whatever he wants to you (as Hathcock quoted earlier, the only thing needed for evil to triumph is for good to do nothing). The only thing militant extremists understand is force, because that is the only weapon they use - If their cause was just and founded in reason and intelligent thought, they wouldn't be blowing themselves up!

</rant>

PS.

About that Rummy quote Typhy - don't you see how DEEP it is? It's like something you would hear in any Philosophy 101 class!

Dude, don't bring Carolus Rex into your argument, YOU fucking ruskies started the Great Northern War TOGETHER with Prussia, Poland and Denmark, fucking gangbanging pussies.