*DAMN R6 Forum

Hey Mauti, any thoughts on a America's Army Ladder? The style of play is much faster paced then ghr, I know the old RS players would love that. And with punkbuster we dont have to worry so much about cheats. The TWL league kicked -a2- off the ladder only because we cant run there lame ass 3rd party anti cheat client. "CDC" I have been lobbying in there forums to try and get it ported to other os's with no luck. So I thought DAMN may want to sponsor a separate AA League.

Any thoughts on how we can get our hands on what it was written in to port it. It was written in VB with a 3rd pary communications module, soon to be ported to .NET.

Thoughts anyone?

Thx
Vood's
www.americasapples.tk (http://www.americasapples.tk)

Just thought I'd offer my support for a *DAMN AA ladder. I'd love to see it.

Rebel already sent me rule ideas few weeks ago and in season 6 there will be an AA ladder.

Typhy you and Rebel probably gonna be the AA admins for the first AA season but more info about rules, which have to be discussed in the public and more, later.

Bye,

Mauti

hey,

i have to say that i?m a lil bit worried about this AA ladder idea...
how much AA clans do we have? i can only see -a2-.

z][t-Civic

 :nods:, sounds good, Mauti.

Civic, while A2 is the only clan who just palys AA, I know some of the BTs guys play it, lots of the MPs, and many other members of this community.

They will begin to pop up once the ladder is up. Once -a2- closes it's doors the people who didn't get in will probably start their own clans. Didn't BTs_Sturm have a clan??

Well gl and if you need any help give me a pm.

I agree those guys will be great mods for this ladder....

I would love to play the -a2- clan!

Only got me in my clan that plays it regularly (cos am a beta tester) but if I can convince some of the other guys then maybe we could take part. But there all AA noobs!

I do prefer it to GhR. The only problem I see is the hosting. I know the -a2- clan has a host but I don't know how hard or easy it would be to set up one.

Could i possibly suggest a *Damn dedicated AA server for cbing?

That, Swiftkill, comes into money.

A2 has a dedicated 12 man leased server ( we pay 48 bucks a month ), Rebel and I have already been talking about how to use that server most effectively to benifit the *DAMN AA ladder. I'll let you know as soon as we have it worked out.

Hello everyone. Typhy and I have been chosen to be admins of the new Americas Army Ladders on *DAMN. I was put in charge of creating a set of rules that we will abide by and other things. Below are the rules of the leagues. We plan to have 2 ladders, a 2v2 ladder and a 4v4+ ladder. The 4v4+ ladder will be teams of 4v4 5v5 or 6v6. 6 being the max. The -a2- Americas Apples server will be up for matches. But any clans that will want to use our dedicated server provided by goamericasarmy.com will have to contribute 8 dollars per month to the server. Your 8 dollars will get you permissions in the server and your clan will be able to reserve times for matches and practices through myself, typhy, or voodoo. Below are the rules that I have created for these ladders. Any comments, suggestions, or critisism is acceptable.

Americas Army Ladder Rules

General

Type of gameplay : Team Objective
Number of maps: 1
Number of Squads: 2
Members per squad: 4+
Rounds per match: 14 (1 setup round, 6 matches per side)
Time Limit: See map list

The team that challenges another clan is the attacking team. The team that is being challenged is the defending team. The defending team will choose two possible maps for play. The attacking team will then pick one of the two maps to play in the match. The defending team will start as defense with the attacking team starting on offense.

A match consists of 12 match rounds per map

Winning the match: Match winners are determined by a best of 12 scenario. The team with the most wins after 12 rounds wins. Rounds are won by either capturing the objective or eliminating the opposing team in the allotted time.

In the event of a tie (score would be 6-6) Mout Mckenna will be used as an overtime map.  Rules for overtime are the same as the regular rules, but only one round will be played. The defending team will chose which side to play as Honor or Loyalty.

Map List:

Bridge ( 7 minute rounds )
HQ Raid ( 7 minute rounds )
Insurgent Camp ( 7 minute rounds )
Pipeline ( 7 minute rounds )
Tunnel ( 7 minute rounds )
Weapons Cache ( 7 minute rounds )
Mountain Pass ( 10 minute rounds )
Swamp Raid ( 7 minute rounds )
Weapons Cache SE ( 10 minute rounds )

AA Version 2.0 Maps

SF Pipeline ( 7 minute rounds )
SF Hospital ( 7 minute rounds )
SF Recon ( 10 minute rounds )

Maps such as Mountain Ambush and FLS Assault will not be permitted due to their bad fps and unbalanced nature.

Server Information

The attacking team should provide the server. In the event that the attacking team does not have a server and/or the server has bad pings, the defending team can provide the server. If a server cannot be agreed on then you need to email an admin before the match and it will be dealt with.

Server Settings

Max Client Rate= 10,000
Require Authorization= Checked (on)
Game Password= Host?s Choice
Cheats= Unchecked (off)
Maximum ROE= 1000
# of minutes per round= Map Dependant
# of rounds per match= 7
# of Matches before cycling= 1
Minimum number of players to start= Number of players in match
Cycle Maps after match= Unchecked (off)
Minimum Honor= 10
Maximum Honor= 100

MISC SETTINGS

Spectate from player starts only= Checked (On)
Spectate from team players only= Checked (On)
Spectate from first person only=Checked (on)
Max spectators= 0
MILES= Force_normal
Hide Settings= unchecked (off)

IDLE PLAYER SETTINGS

All Idle player settings will be set to Unchecked (off)

Match Details

All members of both squads are responsible for treating each other with respect. Global Game Chat will be kept to a minimum. Rude or abusive language will not be tolerated prior to or during the match

Teams sizes MUST be relayed to the opposing side 24 hrs in advance and be posted in match comms. This is to ensure proper server settings and a minimum of delay in starting the match. If a team shows up at a match with more than the posted amount, the extra players will have to rotate in at side change. If a team shows with less than the posted amount, they may play with 4 or more players or they may forfeit the match, unless the opposing team agrees in match comms to allow them to play with a lesser number.

All agreements and arrangements must be posted in match comms. This is to protect you incase the other team denies having made any arrangements with you.

The match will proceed in this manner:

1 setup round
6 match rounds
side change
1 setup round
6 match rounds
(Additional Setup rounds may be needed due to a player disconnecting during the battle.)

The server may start the round while the last player has not had an opportunity to join a side.  In this case all players should suicide using the console command and the next round will be the first setup.

During each setup round all players will again select the correct side and make any weapon adjustments as needed. Screenshots will also be taken during the setup round. Once both sides are satisfied that selections have been made all players will use the console command to 'suicide'. Unless the teams are still 'mixed', the following round will be live. Both sides MUST confirm that they understand that the round is live. Only in the event that sides are still mixed will the round not be considered live. Not having a weapon you want is not grounds for a live round to be halted. In the event that at anytime teams become mixed, ALL players will disconnect then reconnect and the process will start over.

Killing one or more opfor during a Setup round will result in a 1 round forfeit loss. If during the same match the offending team kills another opfor during a different Setup round, they will forfeit the match. If the opfor killed any member of your team during the Setup round it will be your teams choice as to whether to go live the next round, or have another Setup round. This choice needs to be made in Global Talk before the experation of time.

No team will fire any weapon for the first 5 seconds of ANY live round. Pulling the pin on a grenade IS considered firing a weapon.

Any player issues that arise after the start of a live round will be considered 'casualties of war' and the round will proceed.

After 6 live rounds have been played ALL players will exit the server then reconnect, using the same procedure noted above, except they will switch sides. There is a 15 minute limit to have your players rejoin for side change. Player substitutions may be made at this time.

Set Up Round Instructions

During each set up round ALL players will raise the F1 screen and take a screenshot.

Screenshot requests will only be made by an admin and must be presented immediately upon an admins request. Screenshots WILL NOT be provided to anyone other than an admin unless approved by both teams.

Screenshots will be held by the player for a minimum of 72 hours. Failure or refusal to take or provide a screenshot when requested will result in the forfeiture of that match by the offending team and possible action taken against the player himself, at the discretion of the admins.


Dropped Players

If a player drops from the server during a setup round, the setup round will be replayed. Once a round goes 'live' any dropped players will be considered a ?casualty? and the round will continue. Dropped players may ONLY rejoin at the completion of the round they dropped. If a dropped player rejoins during the live portion of the round, his team may have to forfeit the round. Squads may rotate players between side changes or prior to an 'overtime' round, but not between rounds. A player who drops during a live round will need a setup round to ensure he spawns with his team for the next live round and to allow him to select his weapon.

Have Fun and play nice. Failure to abide by these rules will be dealt with firmly. Plain and simple just play the game and have fun.

Points System

The AA ladder?s point system will be fairly simple. If you win a match you get 10 points. If you lose a match you lose 5 points. Plain and simple the clan with the best record wins.

2v2 match rules are basically the same but certain maps will not be allowed due to their massive size.

 One thing that Rebel left out:

3v3s will count for the 2v2 ladder.

One thing that I'd consider is banning HQ Raid. Because of the CQC nature of this map, 10 FPS is unplayable there. I get 10-15 FPS, and I'll well above the system requirements. I'd hate to think what it'd be on something that was just at or below the requirements. One thing that we have to accept, regrettably, with these high-end games, is that in order to run an active ladder, we have to cooperate with the people with weaker machines.

2v2 maps would be:

( 7 minutes ) Insurgent Camp
( 7 minutes ) Swamp Raid
( 7 minutes ) Bridge
( 7 minutes ) Tunnel

I'll edit this with more soon.
 

Yea why don't we have cheats on?

SO NO ONE CAN USE CHEATS!

I thought that would be kind of simple to understand.

In America's Army, there are specific cheat servers, where you can use console cheats. Having cheats unchecked blocks such cheats.

I just told Rebel and Typhy to post their version of rules.

First Rebel and Typhy for the first season I only recommend and would like to set up ONE ladder.

I gonna discuss the other points later. Only one thing I have already asked but how do you start an AA host on a Mac!?

About the 8US Dollar fee that's something you have to advertise and handle outside the league please. This is an offer from you but has nothing to do with *DAMN although it will help matches going on. Please remove it from your post.

Further you have now admin status Rebel and Typhy that means you are also moderators of this forum and can see the private admin section. Nevertheless you should only admin things concerning the AA ladder and Typhy can do things for the RS fraction as well.

Bye,

Mauti

 I'll post a tutorial on the A2 site and link to it once I remember how to start a server. ;)

It's a royal pain in the ass, because you have to go through the terminal.

One ladder is something that Rebel and I disagreed on ( I wanted 1, he wanted 2 ), I can see it working either way, but one ladder would work fine if we have a points system that rewards clans for bigger CBs.

The reason that we posted that offer is because, like I said, it's a real pain in the ass to try and host servers. I'll post some links to places where you can purchase servers, as well as a tutorial once I write it. ;)

:Looks at Rebel's "I've got power" face. ;):  

Typhy, a guy on the AA forums posted a script that starts AA up in server mode for the Mac.  He's updated it often.  You may want to use that.

I did start up the cube as a server, and it did work fine using these scripts when 1.9 came out.

May you can post a link to it so I can add it like the full game to our download section.

No problem about the paying server stuff but it has simply nothing to do with setting up rules  ;)

About the point system we can talk about everything here mainly the choice will depend on how many clans I can expect. Well once we have set up the rules I gonna contact InsideMacGames and Corey from MacGamers to make it more public.

Good night,

Mauti

 I'm ban from the AA forums for something I said to a moderator in a PM. . .

Perhaps you could link me, Bucc?

Mauti, a download for 1.9:

http://www.versiontracker.com/redir.fcgi/lid=350656/armyops190-mac.dmg.bz2

When 2.0 is out, of course, there will be a new link.

Remember, people, these rules we posted are just our ideas. Feel free to comment - tell us what you think, what you like, what you dislike.

 

HAH.  LMAO.  HEHEHEHEHEHEHE.

Sorry, but that's the funniest thing I've read all week.

I'll find it for you and let you know.  But add me to your buddy list on GR so I can.

Mauti if you want to put the full game on your download servers then WAIT!

Me and the rest of the mac beta testers are currently testing Americans Army : Special Forces 2.0 for the Mac so putting the old 1.9 on your servers would be a wast of time.

So wait till it has been released. I can't tell you when it will be released :) but when it is maybe I can get you a nice fast download link when it is out :)

Oh yea about hosting there was a guy called Edg who made a program for setting up a host on a mac. I don't know if he will be making one for 2.0 but if he dose it will be the best thing for setting up a server without any problems and hassle.

Ross, he's been keeping it up to date till now, so I suspect that he will continue to do so.

Also, you'll need to join us in our massive Bit Torrent of it again this time.  Since MP has a few beta testers, we took the early download and did a massive distribution of it the day 1.9 came out.  No reason to think we wont do the same this time, and the more on the better, so when it happens, look for us on GR.

 Those MP hosted Bit Torrent's are awesome. I've gotten both 1.7 and 1.9 off of them; most of the time my speed was maxed out - about 200kb/sec.

I put you on my buddy list, so PM me when you get a chance.  

Yea I thought you guys had a few beta testers in there but you never said hi :(

I told edg about this league I am sure he will help with the hosting.

A bittorrent is probably the bets way to download AA.

i'll gladly help you distribute AA via BitTorrent when its out.

Elan

I dont' really understand the 5 second weapon rule.
If you tk, you tk. That's your own fault.

If this gets to be bigger than expected and you need some help admin'ing, I'll volunteer, but I think between Typhy, Vood, and Reb, you guys should be ok.

Hmm 1 ladder eh? Well the reason i wanted 2 ladders was because id rather not see a recreation of the RS ladder where people who 2v2ed everday won because they were point whores. But, if we need to nail it down to 1 ladder then i guess we can fix the point system to where 2v2's are worth less and are therefore discouraged. But, with a 2v2 ladder of its own we can have more teams and more matches and more activity then combining it into 1 ladder and forcing clan members to 2v2. If you see my point then it will make sense but if u dont im not going to elaborate. Basically if it must be done then it must be done. Typhy and I will work out a NEW point system and then we will clear it with u mauti. Typhy ill be back on tongiht around 930 east. Thats 530 for u krazy alaskans. Ttyl. oh yeah for all of you who speak spanish.

YO TENGO POWER!!!!!!!!

 While a having two seperate ladders would make for an easier and less complex points system, I think it'd also make for two relativly inactive ladders.

However, you could still make a pretty basic points system, based totally upon the amount of players: 2v2 = 4 points, 3v3 = 6 points. . . 6v6 = 12 points. That'd make it take 2 3v3s to equal a 6v6, or 3 2v2s, which seems about right.

 A couple people have asked me about this, so I figure I'll clarify:

The "5 second" rule: "No team will fire any weapon for the first 5 seconds of ANY live round. Pulling the pin on a grenade IS considered firing a weapon. "

The only place I've seen this come into play is at Bridge; many people go to open servers to practice their 203ing. Some people take it to a new level. They know exactly where to put their reticule to land a 203 in the oponents spawn point at Bridge. It's a royal pain in the ass when someone does this, because they can almost always kill at least 1, often more. This simply prevents against it.  

Actually, when you get to learn the map you'll find that if you go immediately up the hill, they can almost never hit you with a 203.

For example, I tend to rush to the right, go along the hill (about 10 feet in from the road), then cross the road at a diagonal where I will either continue down the bridge, go inside to make my way up to the tower, or go to the stairs.

The point is, if you're smart, you can avoid the early death. If you're smarter, you can get an early kill. I think adding this other rule just makes it more complicated, and opens the door to more cheap wins/losses.

Snipe, there is no reason to shoot within the first 5 seconds. The only potential disagreement would be if someone killed an oponent within the first 5 seconds, which would be cheap and a violation of the rules. TWL uses this rule, and they seem to have no problems.

?cE ? SNiPE.jNu-a2-?: I just don't want to fire my gun up in the air as a morale booster (sometimes do it) and then be cheated out of a win.
?cE ??Typhy.-a2-: Lol
?cE ??Typhy.-a2-: I promise you that no one will be cheated out of a win like that.


ok then.

A preview of what will happen if someone tries to catch a win like that:

Person: He shot his gun as a moral booster 4.999 seconds into the game, so we win by forfit!

Me: Did he kill or wound anyone with it?

Person: No.

Me: Did his doing this effect you in any way?

Person: No.

Me: Then there was no problem. Have a nice day.

This is simply to make sure that people don't try any 203 shit, namely at Bridge, if you really must shoot your gun at the start, I doubt there will be a problem.

That gave me a good chuckle too.  ;D

Guys please stay more ontopic. We are to discuss rules and the point system.

One thing the point should have is penalty points for losing and about the players: in the CombatPoints System we have solved this by multiplying the static rank points with the players. e.g 10(static points) * 1(for 2vs2) and for a 4vs4 just 10 * 1.5.

The CombatPoint System worked great and I think would also work once the AA ladder grows(at least 10 - 15active clans) but for now we should do a simple system.

Bye,

Mauti

I'll throw in two suggestions, both should be easy and fit the problem with scoring/ladders.

Use the existing formula in the combatpoints system, but just change the constants here (again, like Mauti said, until it grows).

Seems like you'll want to reward bigger CB's a little more, to discourage the 2v2 stuff, so increase that multiplier.  Instead of 1.5x take it up a notch or two.  The actual number has to be looked at in connection with the next part.

Since I doubt you'll see more then 5 active clans the first season, you'll want the points earned to be a little closer.  So again, modify the constants.  Instead of 300 points for beating first place, make it 30.  Just drop a zero.  Then, take a look at the actual numbers Mauti has in place, and maybe close or widen some of the gaps, to make it more competitive.  

Reason I say this is that increasing the gap will make it easier for lower teams to catch up, since beating the high ranked teams is worth more.  And with so few of teams, you don't need the higher numbers like 300, not when using 40, 20, 15, 10, 7, 5, 2, 1, 1, 1 will not only do the same thing for so few teams, but has a bit of a psychological advantage in that it wont seem so hard to catch up (even though it's just as hard/easy).

That's my 2? on topic for a change.

I have never really understood that point system but id love to read an explanation and an example. Cant wait till 2.0 AA woot woot!

Ok, a quick rehash of the combat point system (formerly known as the purse point system ;))

The Combat Point System gives you points depending on how high the clan is ranked you played against and how many players participated in the cb. The Combat Points are the points from the rank and the # of players. The amount of penalty points depends on how many ranks the played clan is in front or below you. You don't get penalty points if the opponent is 4 or more clans higher ranked than you. Between 3 clans in front of you and 4 clans below you you get also less penalty points than usual. If you play clans that are 5 or more ranks below you you lose 20percent of your combat points.

Point per rank (1st - 20th):
300, 250, 210, 180, 170, 160, 130, 120, 110, 100, 90, 80, 70, 60, 50, 40, 30, 20, 15, 10 anyone else 10. The number of participating clans decide about how many ranks have additional rank points. General for beating top clans you get more points.

Unranked clans (= clans which haven't played a CB yet) have fixed points of 50. An example: clan X wins against Y. it's the first CB for Y in this season, so X gets 50 points + the player-points.

Placement tie-breakers is as follows: combat points, CB win %, won cbs, and head to head won games.

If you don't quite get that, let me know.  All I'm talking about is changing some of the numbers but using the same formula.

Sounds good...ill let typhy handle that and ill just handle the public. lol.

Ah, Rebel, Mr. Public Relations, now there's a scary thought. ;)

Bucc, I agree with you that a modified version of that system putting more of an emphysis on the amount of players would work good. At least it's a good base to start with. I'll try and work up an idea and get your opinions on it later on tonight.

The amount of penalty points would have to be adjusted to fit with whatever modified version of the current points system that we choose to use.

Again, I'll post a points-system proposal later tonight.

 Ok, here's what I was thinking:

Because we're going to have a lot less clans than the GHR ladder, we need to make the rank points much closer together.

First place: 30
Second Place: 25
Third place: 20
Fourth place: 15
Fifth place and lower: 10.

I think that penalty points should be fixed at 20%,   at least until we have a fix on how many clans are going to be participating.

Player points: Because we want to make an emphisis on players, I think the best way is the number of players times 1.5

2v2=6 points, 3v3 = 9 points. . . 6v6 = 18 points.

Tell me what you think - player points - to high? To low? Just right?
 

Heres a quick question... will the AA ladder survive since it seems that there is only one AA clan on GR

There is only one way to find out :)

That is why I posted a thread called "Who will be joining the America's Army Ladder??". And already there is a small community of AA players that goes past just the one clan of -a2-.

I think the release of AA version 2.0 will promt some more interest. Im certainly planning on going back to play it some more.. .and i wouldn't be surprised if some clans pull up with AA divisions... Hell you won't get less guys playing it than on the R6 or RS ladders on Damn!!

WEll, I am glad that another game has been put into the mix of things besides GR.  GR is great but having AA with bring a lot more diversity into the DAMN gaming league.  So I am all for it.  

+MOD+Saberian