*DAMN R6 Forum

Got this from Haxial this morning in response to an email I wrote to them about Evill targeting NF in his service cutting spree

Hi

Thanks for reporting this.  Please download KDX 1.1 -- NetFone has been
integrated into KDX, and is no longer being sold separately.  So this
conveniently gets you around the block ;)

Please let us know if GameRanger / Scott Kevill does this again with KDX.

Thanks.

__________________________________________________________
Haxial Tech Support                  http://www.haxial.com

AND There you go!!!

NF workaround for ever!

Voice chat is now implemented through DCC in KDX.

Now maybe these 59 threads about the NF block can die.

yessir

it'll be interesting to see how Evill deals with this.

Colin, two questions.

1) Did you, in that letter, make it clear that he was only doing it to the non-paying users?  That paying users could use voice chat (by whatever means)?

2) What makes you think Evill wont just block KDX like he did NF?

way to go colin!

Non-Premium -> ;D
Premiums -> :o

Baz = The New Rapid

lol

OK.. Y did you post this here!!! Evill checks this all the time so expect KDX to be shut down for in game use soon...

The Edit Button.  look for it on a forum near you ;)  

     -Brain

it's not like we're gonna keep it a secret lol


he's gonna find out.

Actually we could care less, cause either way we can use it...

gj colin

Alaric = Spamming Flamer

KDX'er = no balls hypocrite.  

     Y'know, Baz, if you want to "be cool" and "hide your identity" to "make your point", you should avoid attacking someone who has pissed off you and only you, and that only five posts earlier in the thread. Retard.

 ??? loth, KDX'er isn't me

(serious) ... nice try though loth; ur the stupid one now

I am yet to see Lothario be the stupid. Lothario, as most MP, are thouroughly (sp?) good guys and are seldom seen doing anything bad at all and MP as a clan contributes very much to the mac community.

I am yet to see Baz say anything worthy of notice. I have seen though, the saddest attempt at insulting someone, from Baz and his sad rhyming skills. I am yet to see SW clan contribute to the mac community in any way (being target practise doesnt count).

i dont wanna start shit but why would i pay for GR when i can pay off speeding tickets?

you're always the stupid one baz. keep that in mind next time you post.

Did not you read his last post, in which he accused me (having no proof) on an entirely guessed accusation? Honestly people, i am an idiot because of getting into a flame war (which both sides were involved with); but Loth's comment was entirely one-sided, opinionized, and most importantly...FALSE.

As for bronto; first of all, i have never even critisized you, so what is your problem with me? Second, the only reason i'm called an idiot is because i spoke my opinion, then defended my comments. It was not me who started the flame war. - Check out some of Acri's posts. And since someone is going to quote this statement and "prove me wrong" once again; i wonder why i am always wrong in the eyes of people who's lives are dependent upon pixels and code - and i wonder why i even care to reply to these people..

And now you'll call me an idiot on a completely different basis, as i have proved you wrong once again; but since most of you can't pick on people in real life, go ahead and have fun picking on baz the idiot again. I hope i make you all happy. (does this count for helping the mac gaming community?)

"Oh my god! Acri started it! He pwned me thoroughly and I can't let go!"

Acri, thankyou for providing an excellent example of the complete and pure immaturity on these forums i was speaking about before.

baz, do you enjoy making me lock all these threads?
or is that just a side effect of your inability to let any post that insults you go unchallenged?

Brain, you aren't even reading my posts.

"Oh baz posted again! time to insult him because everyone else is!"

This statement made no sense either; if i started a new thread criticizing you, im willing to bet you would reply.

And ontop of all of that, the insults to my are completely unfounded! I revoked them, but no one even cares because they just want to call baz a moron because everyone else is!

Brain, what did i ever do to you either?

What pisses me off the most is the fact that i actually apologized to those that I insulted earlier; but you STILL continue to insult me, regardless of my apologies. Sad.

Not entirely true Baz and get off your soap box about it.

1) not everyone is insulting you.

2) you apologized, doesn't mean everyone accepted it.

3) Brain didn't just insult you either.

4) Loth's wasn't completely unfounded.  It's more valid than your comment about "want to call baz a moron because everyone else is."

5) that "sad" at the end makes your statement less then sincere.  

6) your apology also struck me the wrong way, as it was more about both being wrong, then you just apologizing.  

7) not everyone thinks argument and debate getting heated is immature.  And just because you do doesn't make you more mature, it makes you less actually.  Because your are looking through ideals, not reality.  

I never said everyone was. It is just a few individuals who think they should try to make a fool out of me as much they can.

That is because not everyone here is mature, even if they're married and have kids. What more do you want from me?


In this case it was, because he was completely WRONG.

We both made insults, i apologized for mine, and i was expecting you to apologize for yours as well. I apologize (again) if you're going to continue being offensive towards me. I won't apologize and be mature in the future towards you then.

This without doubt is one of the dumbest remards i've ever heard. First, only the mature people here think the "debate" (which is really just insults to people we don't know) is getting stupid. I'm looking through ideals, not reality. Do you call these forums, GR, and gaming a reality? Now i see why everyone hates me...am i the only one with some common sense?

I guess the main question is, what more do you guys want from me?
I've already apologized, re-apologized, and tried to become friends; but you guys just want to ignore my attempts and continue criticizing me like second graders.
 

baz, i have had the unpleasant duty of reading all of your posts, i read EVERY post on this board... why? because it is my job as a moderator




it makes plenty of sense to me, seeing as you have replied to any post that you have even slightly hinted at possible insulting you (and if you care to deny this, i will be more than happy to prove you wrong)


well of course my insults are unfounded, BUT since bucc already pointed out i didn't insult you, it doesn't really matter now does it?  as for what you did to me? you turned this thread, that was going rather well, into a you vs. the world flamewar, and you are continuing to do so.  you lost this battle along time ago and yet you are continuing to egg on the other members of this forum. apology or no, you are still adding fuel to this fire, and if you fail to realize that, you sir, are a dumbass (and yes, that WAS an insult)

consider yourself warned
[/color]

Actually, you did.  It's right up there.


Personally, I find that insulting.  So if you are calling them immature for insulting, you are no different.  Also, they have their own opinions, maybe it didn't sound sincere to them either.


Wrong and unfounded aren't the same thing.  Not at all.  I can have a very well founded suspicion and still be wrong.  Happens all the time.  


Get over yourself already.  I told you before I don't consider it "being mature".  Especially in the light of how insulting you have been.  My last post lacked anything offensive other then it being an actual response.


Yep, that officially makes you a hypocrite.  Thanks for playing.


So, my last post was just insults, no debate at all?  Guess again fucknuts.  (btw, before you shout "hypocrite" back, I'm not advocating the maturity of insults.  You are.)  It wasn't insulting at all.  Hell, my first post to you wasn't even insulting, you just took it that way because of the fact I was insulting your buddy.


Common fits, but not the sense part, in my opinion.  Yes, these forums are a reality.  You are here, I am here, we are communicating.  Or have you seen The Matrix too many times and have become confused?  

The immaturity I am accusing you of is that you seem to believe (can't use the word think here, because that would be a stretch) that any insults is immature.  That people cant have a mature debate and still throw around insults.  That, in my opinion, is a child like ideal along the lines of "wars are bad and should never happen, there's no excuse for them".  Reality shows us that the mature still get heated in debate, and that war, while ugly and horrible, is still often necessary.  So I see mature being the coloring of your ideals with a taste of reality.  Sorry that you didn't pick that up the first time.


Your left-handed apologized dont mean shit.  Like I said, they lack sincerity.  You apologize, while blaming others, while insulting others.  That make you a little man.  So go away little man.  

Like I said in my last post, I want you to get your fucking ass off your soap box.  Is it more clear now?

Baz was a little man
Acri he was HUGE
Acri would follow with his flaming
Whereever baz found refuge

               ;D

Gonna stop flaming now. It's not worth it when you can't get a decent insult back. Sorry admins!

Baz, you suck.

Nice one evill... lmao

Who gives a fuck? He's still wrong.

and second,
That sums up your intelligence, life, and all around existence. Two people who no not each other's names, knowledge, locations, lifestyles, even existence are arguing - THIS IS REALITY?! You are a fool, go get a life.

Well, it seems to Acri it did, but of course it didn't mean anything to you, because your mine is too simple to accept my apology. I was sincere in my apology, and my comments were as bad as anyone elses', so when i apologized, i expected you to have the brains to follow suite and shake hands. Too bad you can't.

And besides the bad grammar, when i asked what more you want from me, you told me to go away? I live in a different state, if you mean physically; i suppose that's far enough. If you mean online, I'm not going anywhere because you keep making rediculous comments and i keep proving them wrong. Unfortunetly you keep making the comments thinking you're better than me, when in actuality you just look like another moron.

As for Evill, I'm proud to have 20% of your posts' attention.  ;) Maybe it's time to get a girlfriend.

Modernist poem about baz:

Against the ceiling of ignorance
Flew the pig
It hit so hard
ignorance cracked
and rained all over his family
He wouldnt buy premium
Glue has a taste of victory

Baz, you should just say to yourself, "fuck them" and move on.  Don't waste your life fighting in a forum.

Me, I give a fuck.  From the looks of the posts, so do most of the others.  Just because you like to toss the prose around doesn't make your use of it correct.  It was a founded suspicion, and for now, all we have is your statement that it's wrong.  

You called it unfounded, and in any case, you are wrong about that statement.

Reality:
Pronunciation: rE-'a-l&-tE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -ties
Date: 1550
1 : the quality or state of being real
2 a (1) : a real event, entity, or state of affairs <his dream became areality> (2) : the totality of real things and events <trying to escape from reality> b : something that is neither derivative nor dependent but exists necessarily


I'd say that yes, this forum is a real place, where real, live people exchange real ideas through communication.  After all, this forum is just a medium of communication.  It is as "real" as any news paper, it is as "real" as any courtroom.  It doesn't carry the reputation of the former, or the support and weight of the latter, but it is real.

The only fool I see here is you.  Oh, and nice assumptions about who knows what and what not about whom.  Those are just that, assumptions on your part.

And I'll weigh my life against yours any day you like.  My education and intelligence as well, since you question those too.  Remember, I'm not the one who challenged the other to a confrontation, I'm just the one that offered the time and place after it.


My 'mine' as you put it isn't too simple.  Just the opposite.  If I were simple, I'd just say OK, even when I feel your apology lacked all sincerity.  

First, like we discussed in the PM, you felt I had insulted you, when I hadn't.  I had insulted your buddy.  So your blaming me was uncalled for.  Second, I don't agree with your ideas about maturity, so why would I agree that I and others acted immature?  Third, your apology itself can't really be sincere when it had the signature it did on it.  That kind of defaults that apology to me.

Like I said, you sir, are a hypocrite.  You think there's something wrong with flinging insults, but you are the first to do it.  And continue them while saying proclaiming how terrible it is.


The first time I told you it was "get off the soap box" if you'll please look up.  You didn't seem to understand it, because you asked again, so yes, I say I'd like you to go away.  Too hard for you to grasp?


The only ones succeeding in looking like morons in this thread are you and Ross.  But on a personal note, I want to thank you.  We've all missed Bondo here, and it's so nice of you to step up, play the wounded individual, make a horses ass out of yourself and fill those shoes.

And anyone that keeps telling others that they have no life, or to get a girlfriend obviously has none of their own and is projecting.  

bucc, just about every one of your arguments and statements in that last post were
false, and they weren't even good insults when you tried.

I won't even waste anymore time copy/pasting because you haven't proved my original ones wrong. You're writing complete bullshit excuses for each of my points.

The worst part is that you're just looking for a fight, not trying to solve one. Look at yourself, i wish you would instead of replying aimlessly so that you don't lose face in this now-pointless thread.

Btw, i do have a gf too. More bs (see above).

Lastly, i think i'll take Viper's excellent advice and say

FUCK YOU MORON

...and move on. You never said what else you want me to do, btw. Maybe because you wan't to keep this argument going as long as you can...

Hmm, considering I haven't actualy tried to insult you yet, I don't really care that you think they were bad attempts.

And let's see, what in my last post could be false?

That I give a fuck?  Hmm, that can't be false, because that's my opinion, and true.

What else?  Where I corrected your use of the word "unfounded"?  Nope, most people here agree that those were well founded suspicions, even if they were wrong (and we don't know that or not).

I know, the definition of reality, that had to be wrong eh?  Oh, wait, that came from Webster, guess that wasn't false either.

Oh, the fact that I found your apology insincere?  Wait, no, that can't be false either, since it's true.

Must be the Hypocrite part, right?  But, if you are condemning people for insults, and doing so with insults of your own, isn't that being a hypocrite?  I do think I used it right.

I know, it was when I  said I'd compare my life, that you keep telling people to get, to yours.  Wait, I was willing to do that too.  Sorry, I just can't seem to find what you meant by my whole post was false.

So fuck you and your "you are just false bullshit.  Whinny little boy.


Actually, I proved the unfounded one wrong, and the fact that your apology was insincere (again, all anyone had to do was look at your sig to find it insincere).  I also showed you, on GR, how I didn't actually insult you as you claimed.  Last of all, I proved how much of a little pussy you are when you openly challenge me to meet you, but you wont come.  That is the lowest form of an online bullshit.  Implying that you want to come get personal about it.  What a fucking joke you are.


No you fucking idiot, it's not a binary decision.  I'm not looking to solve one, or start one.  Which word is too much for you little pea sized brain?  You are trying to stop it, and doing a piss poor job of it.  I, on the other hand, don't have either goal that you mentioned.  See, not backing away from a fight isn't quite the same thing as looking for one.  Hmm, guess you just aint as smart as you thunk you are.  


Sure, if you say so.  But when they come with a tire patch kit, in case of deflation, I wouldn't call them a "girlfriend".  And if you don't want that kind of BS, you shouldn't bring it up you douchebag.  You are the one that calls peoples lives and girlfriends into question.  

Do everyone a favor, go submit your picture to Webster so they can place it next to Hypocrite.  After all, pictures help idiots like you learn when the words are too big for them.


And, just to prove you wrong once again, I'll direct you back a few posts, where I said it the first time:

I wanted you to get off your soap box about it.  Have you, no.  

Baz, I will say that I stand corrected on one thing.  Earlier I compared you to Bondo.  And just about everyone here will understand how deep this is coming from me.  But I apologize to Bondo, because you aren't as smart as him.

Lol.

bucc,

THEN WHY THE FUCK DO YOU KEEP POSTING HERE?!

if you want me to get off my "soap box" why dont you try to end this without your foolish and TRUELY AIMLESS (because you have no point in them, as you state) comments.

You want me to shut up, then you better shut up first, because i want to end whole waste of time without insulting anyone else, OR letting complete morons like you, who have nothing better to do than keep posting insults, continue. Notice no one is reading this thread anymore because there's no point to it. Do your share and quit bashing me, and then i'll stop.

Baz, your an idiot.

Ahh thankyou Jeb.

Seeing that "your" should be "you're" i think it's you who is the idiot.

Damn, she can't be fooled

 ;)

lol Jeb, you can't save yourself with a pussy comeback.  Take your self pwning like a man.

Ok Baz, I'll try to use smaller words, so maybe you'll be able to digest it this time.

I did not say my posts have no point.  I said that it wasn't looking for a fight, or looking to stop one.  Those are the only two options you gave, but they aren't the only two options I can chose from.  I chose option #3, I don't back away from verbally beating down an idiot who continues to lash out.  That isn't solving a problem, nor is it looking for a fight.  It's just something else.  And it has a point.  You just don't seem to be smart enough to tell the difference.


Oh, there's that maturity you were talking about.  Wooohooo, way to go Baz.


So you say, but you show something completely different.  If you wanted to end it, you simply would end it.  Nobody is holding a gun to your head saying to continue.


Since you continue, I guess by your logic that means you also have nothing better to do.


Actually, I'm going to go right ahead and correct you yet again (I should start charging you for correcting all these mistakes).  Since Viper and Jeb just posted, I do think some people are reading it.  Or is this another break with reality?  Do you believe that Viper and Jeb don't actually exist?  Afraid that they are just flashbacks?  Nope, guess you are just wrong, yet again.


I don't care if you stop.  If you continue, I will just continue to point out your mistakes.  You asked what I wanted, I told you.  You don't want to do it, I don't really care.  But I'm not the one getting my panties in a bunch here.  You are.  So, if you want it to stop, that power is in your own, hairy palmed hands.

Right, i said im done arguing bucc, and i am.

Im sorry for any beef i've put onto you in the last few days. I didn't think it would boil into the week after sunday, but i was wrong - it did. I don't want to keep comming back here to post and post, because I feel like i'm wasting time.

This is my true and formal apology, Bucc. Im sorry now because i'm sick of this argument and wan't to move on; and i dont want to make more enemies at *DAMN, so i apologize to you personally too, for my insults.

I hope we can get along in the future, under more "cool" conditions   8) and see ya in GR.

</end argument>
</end html>

Maybe you should have read my posts and changed your fucking signature before you try that.  Because, once again, it rings hollow.

(http://homepage.mac.com/farmerjeb/viperpwn.jpg)
Tell you're ;)  mom halloween was last month...

I was still reading these posts.
Baz, there is even a 4th option to keep going here:
I am sexually aroused by totally pwning a defenceless little migglemoof. It's a bdsm thing.

Modernist iPoem about Baz:

Strings play
A tune of ownage
Baz dances to my pipe
Bucc is on the percussion
The percussion is on Bucc
A fine, even ownage
Baz dances to my pipe

Play that funky music, white-boy!

It's not just grammar you need help with. 1 post of 20 is 5%. Even now, with 2 posts of 21, that's still only 9.5%.

Scott.

what was wrong with netfone on its own, but with less bugs and problems? typical

*Sees Scott and baz fighting.....*

*Can't Help it.....must resist...*

JERRY JERRR JERRY JERRY JERRR JERRY JERRY JERRR JERRY JERRY JERRR JERRY JERRY JERRR JERRY!

*Now look what you've done mysterio*

Right, i said im done arguing bucc, and i am.

Im sorry for any beef i've put onto you in the last few days. I didn't think it would boil into the week after sunday, but i was wrong - it did. I don't want to keep comming back here to post and post, because I feel like i'm wasting time.

This is my true and formal apology, Bucc. Im sorry now because i'm sick of this argument and wan't to move on; and i dont want to make more enemies at *DAMN, so i apologize to you personally too, for my insults.

I hope we can get along in the future, under more "cool" conditions?   and see ya in GR.

</end argument>
</end html>

pfffffffft

just messin jeb  (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/YaBBImages/beer.gif)

I bow to a man with less ruth then even I have.

meh, bucc did u skipped over my new and true apology again

Wow, I hate for my first post to get lost in a flame war  :(

(http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/YaBBImages/uzi.gif)  This is directed to Evill Scott:
Disabling my NetFone that I paid for is just plain WRONG!
It equates to you disabling my email for me to play GhR.

If you're trying to corner the market on the voice thing... try specials or something else. Make your product better. Offer a trial period, so I can see if it's any good, or better. But, messing with another application on MY computer when I try to play team play, is just plain wrong, and it will *never* get you my business. As it stands, I won't pay Game Ranger so I can use something I've already paid for and have the ability to make a chat room. I don't even know the sound quality of your voice communication system, I can stream music on NetFone and I happen to like using it (is your sound quality as good?). You are driving business away, not bringing it in.

Perhaps if you had even bothered to *actually listen* to me when I tried to talk to you about PC users doing IP joining for GR hosted games, I might feel differently. But, being closed-minded about that and then outright greedy over voice control--that's bad. Shades of Microsoft--or worse. Are you gonna be controlling which mods will work next?

And BL guys: How many other "work-around" apps do we have to have running. I already host a KDX server for my clan, but do not want to upgrade yet to this new version. That would mean running TWO clients in the background, one for my clan, one for NetFone, and all of this is in addition to ranger and the processor-hog game, itself. If you ask me, this just blows, and the work-around isn't working for me.

It's looking like time to find an alternative, or better--someone who can write one the way we want it.

In short - the issue is not resolved.

You go girl  ;)

i know where you can get a really slick and well implemented workaround for the NF block

all  you need  to do is paypal Evill $50 and you are all set

hmm..

50 dollars...

1000 marbalizer paintballs; 256 mb memory chip, 50 songs!, wireless apple mouse, new basketball, a month's dsl bill, a cheap hooker....

scott can wait  ;D

My point is...that it's NOT LEGAL.

Game Ranger auto updates when you launch it, but it never tells you that "you can not use other voice communication with this software."
The reason it doesn't it that it's not legal for GR to disable other softs on your computer.  But, that's what is happening. It makes NetFone quit.

And Brain, you want me to pay him to break the law?

Nooooooo!

I must say i didn't realise this had even been inplemented untill one of the mod guys told me he would dissapear from NF when we went into the game. OK . I wasn't exactly inpressed. GR give you no warning as to the 'incompatability' with NF - therre is no warning that if you have forked out for a copy of NF you now have to give scott some money to be allowed to use NF... when put like that it really does seem crazy.
Has scott ever given a clear reason as to his thinking behind this move other than to force guys to give him more cash?

Yeah, he calls blocking NF "anti-cheat measures for Ghost Recon". http://gameranger.com/news/

 actually, if you knew anything, you would realize that those anti cheat measures are totaly different from his netphone block, but since you are so blinded by your hatred for kevill over your ban, you are choosing to attempt to deface his public image at every opportunity.  in related news, have you failed to find a valid reason to sue kevill yet?  if you haven't yet, i suggest you quit because you WON'T FIND JACK SHIT.  or maybe this is yet another tatic of your to divert attention from your pitiful life typified by your failed quests to destroy evill. either way, shut up with your evill bashing, nobody here wants to hear about it anymore

     His quest to destroy evill? Would that make him a palladin?

Well thanks for effectively shutting down what I felt was a legitimate complaint. Maybe you're tired of hearing about it, but it's almost the only way to bring it to the attention of others that something is wrong here... very wrong.

I mean, we got it. You're not impressed. Okay, fine. But isn't this a "forum?" ???  

C'mon... it's at the end of a flame war, isn't that bad enough?

the way you have been voicing you opinions is fine.  ross on the other hand has meen making hi person quest for vengance against evill public knowledge and thus has cast aside any sort of valid points he could hope to have

For the morons:
No, this is not illegal. Let us look at an example from the real world:

Let's say I own an airline company.
Now, my policy is, don't bring food unto the plane.
However, I serve meals to first class travellers. hell, I even allow them to bring their own food since they paid for the right to eat on my plane. It is my plane. EVEN if I am the ONLY airliner that goes to Rosskoepkeislameistan, which could be looked upon as a monopoly, I can forbid them to eat on my plane.

GameRanger is an application and it is Kevill's application. Not yours. Haxial is, if we look at the example above, an airport cafeteria where people buy food before the board the plane. Kevill's airplane does not have to allow food on his plane, unless you are first class. If you think it is your right, I hope Kevill drops you from 9000 feet.

Grrrrrrr.

I won't stoop to calling you a moron, but thanks for the opportunity.

First: NetFone doesn't run ON Game Ranger. It's totally separate. I use it all the time for other things as well. I "should" be able to use it while I'm using Game Ranger, too.

Second: Bad example. Try this one.... Let's suppose that Microsoft Word, a software application that you install on your computer for a specific purpose, makes TextEdit or AppleWorks or even MacLink quit when you launch it, because Microsoft doesn't want you using other word processing/importing software at the same time. This is much more similar to the case in question, and I believe it simplifies my point. NO software has the right to shut another one down, especially with no warning. (And I'm not saying it would be ok to do it "with" a warning, either.)

Sometimes, users have the need to run two of them simultaneously. You might need to open a document with TextEdit and copy it into Microsoft, or vice versa. Does Microsoft have the right to keep you from using other word processing programs just because you're in "mid-flight"? I think not.

I'm not really saying that Game Ranger is a bad thing (on the whole). In fact, I liked it and enjoyed using it immensely, until it started limiting what I could do with other applications. You see, I can use Game Ranger and NetFone at the same time, but not Ghost Recon, Game Ranger and NetFone.

Another example of a recent limitation is that formerly, I could host a GhR server on Game Ranger and have PC players IP connect to games using the ranger assigned password. Now, I can do that with my GhR server as a stand-alone, but NOT if I'm hosting on Game Ranger. This was another little "upgrade" that was quietly slipped in.

These are LIMITATIONS that mess with other software and their functionality. Game Ranger should be *offering* options, not removing them! It's taking the fun out of gaming.

I would think that if anyone (besides us gamers) should be pissed, it might be Ubi-Soft. Game Ranger is limiting what can be done with Ghost Recon specifically. (Er.. not to mention Haxial Software.)

Unless some of you forget, evill owns this, pays for this, and once again he can do what the hell he likes, would you prefer GR or no GR?

He could have made this last update do loads of things,

1, Not let non-prems host rooms.

2, Or have a time limit for non-prems so they host a room and quits after 1hr

3, have an annoying timer window at the start so you have to wait 5 mins for GR to start...

4, have GR on a trial period.. so it runs out after 30 days.

i am sure there are many more he could do.

life is a bitch.... get used to it

and evill payed for the GR servers out of his pocket for a long time (years) b4 he added premium accounts... now he just wants to make up for all the money he spent so all of you guys who are complaining could play on GR.. How would you like it if you worked on something for 5 or more yrs and then didn't make any money on it.. not even money to pay for the expences you put into the project...

He was going to turn off NF for everyone.. even premiums.. but he desided to let the premiums still use it b/c some of us did pay for it and then we would have the option to use NF or GR voice chat.

Just get premium, forget about it, and move on.

From my point of view, the only ones who are allowed to complain are the premium members, because we paid for it!

You get the service for free, NOBODY IS FORCING YOU TO USE IT. If you don't like netfone to be blocked, open a webpage where everyone can look if your server is up and ip-join. Then you can still use netfone...

Evill can do with his software what he wants. Netfone still works in gameranger, so gameranger isn't blocking it. It just stops functioning when you're in a ghost recon game.

Here's another solution: get another mac, or peecee and install netfone. You can use this to talk through and play on the other. And there is no workaround for this... But you'll have to buy another comp, which is really expensive these days...

Just go premium and stop whining!

I think Femme is making more sense then any other post that I have read so far.

Here's a question for all of you "Evill can do what he wants," people.  If Evill can do what he wants with his software, then can Bill Gates do what he wants with his software? How about Steve Jobs and Apple? (i.e. blocking other applications while using his software.)

evill isnt actually blocking NF completly... so in effect he isnt doing anything wrong....  

i think there is a dif between apple and GR.... like GR is software and apple is hardware and software.... and like all things to do with apple and microsuck you still have to pay for things....  like games, software, hardware.

i wonder actually how many ppl have actually paid for nf? and if they paid for such a cheesy app like  that, why not pay another 30 bucks, pounds, euros for a fully featured gameranger account?

but this argument can go on for ages, and will probably never be solved, it always comes down to the fact we all cant have everything we want all the time.  

Umm viper, I guess you didn't even bother reading my post, or just skipped the parts you didn't want to read. I said:

The examples you just made are paid services, you need windoze to work on a pc + you need to pay for it. You need mac os on a mac + you need to pay for it.
Of course you can use Unix on both kinds of machines, but you won't be able to play Mac games then. So quit making stupid posts because your's don't make sense.

Btw i wouldn't bother thinking about IP games etc - if u want to cb etc u have to run the server through gameranger, and well its just not the same anyway.

Yes, it is wrong. It's messing with other software on my computer. It's altering the way Ghost Recon works, both with NetFone and with PC users.


A lot of people bought NetFone, and we didn't all buy it just so we could play games. It's a better app than many others... the coding is...well... clean and compact.

This is his way to "force" people to buy. I'd rather get an "upfront notice" that this is demo software and it will stop working in 30 days.... or have a darn timer that delays it to open than to have it disable other software on my computer, or limit what I can do with it.

If it were simply a matter of only me buying it, so I could host and still have NF and PC join... I might consider it, but it's not. Every other member of my clan would have to do the same. It's like "black sales tactics." They all can't afford it...nor do they really want to, it isn't an essential piece of software that they need for their computer to function -- it's for GAMING -- something we do in our spare time, for fun. And, a season is now 40 days long, who's to say if they would even use it any longer than that? I'm not sure it's a reasonable price for the service, if it was, I probably would have done it before this even happened.

That aside, it's still just wrong! I've used it for a while, and now, suddenly, it's disabling other software and preventing PC joins.

On another note: I have a clan that is trying to get started on the ladder. We've had some problems getting going, and Mauti has been a teriffic help. He's helpful and encouraging, which is less than I can say for most who are commenting here. Instead of being welcomed in.... it's more like "Piss off, and stop whinning." It's not looking like somewhere I want to be. Aren't Mac users supposed to "Think Different?"

well, if you had made your own thread, i'm sure you would have gotten the kind welcome you wanted, but since you did decide to open by posting in perhaps the most charged topic we've had in a while, and i don't mean to be overly harsh here, but what else did you expect?

welcome to life on the forums ;)


now to respond to your first point about it being wrong.

you were first claiming that this was illegal, which it is not, this is a tactic used by many companies to keep their buisness to themselves  as for it being wrong, that is another matter entirely.  let's take the matter of cheating on your wife, it's not illegal, but it is moraly questionable (to say the least) this is just to prove to you that yes, legality and morality are infact 2 seperable entities (a concept that many seem to have trouble with).  what evill is doing is not moraly questionalable becasue a)  netphone is a direct compeditor with the flagship feature of evill's premium service  b) kevill has been running GR as a free service for as long as i have been using it. you see those advertising banners on the top of your screen?  those probably don't even begin to cover the costs of running this service.  the very fact that he still allows non premium users to play is amazing to me

let me ask you another question  let's say GM or Ford did something like this, would you be having the same reaction, the same moral outrage twards their attempts to further fatten their profit margins?  if not, why are you so angry at one guy who is trying to make a living off this app?

about netphone, i disagree that it was primarly purchased for non gaming reasons.  i know that mp bought it for gaming reasons, and that most other clans are  using it for the same reason too any other useses were simply a fringe benifit

ip (and thus pc) joining has been blocked (at least in theory) for a while now. at least 2 rev's if memory servs me.  why was it blocked? well, many people (frequently banned ones, other times it was pc players) were using ip joining to play in game ranger hosted games. this would fill up a slot in the game, but not in game ranger. this pissed many legimate users of gamer ranger off when they were told the game was full but according to game ranger, only 14/16 people were in the room. if evill finaly got ip joining totaly blocked, then you shouldn't be complaining about loosing a right that you never really had in the first place

to adress you comments on your guys not getting preem. 50 bucks is for 365 days. not 40  the odds of you never playing on GR again after those 40 days is slim.  i'd venture that the careers of most guys on this forum are in the range of 6 months to several years, and then there are the old timers like Ace, Sin, and Mauti himself.  the point here is that gr is like a drug.  you are not going to be on it for 40 days and then drop it like a bad habit.  remember there is a 30 day money back guarentee, if you dont like it, just get your cash back

I guess I'm upset because I've been working for months putting a clan together, and now that we're ready to play, these huge obstacles have suddenly popped up.


That may be true for those clans, but as it happens, I owned NetFone for months before I ever played Ghost Recon, I bought it for other reasons. It was several months into gaming that I discovered it's value there, as well.


I can understand the need to block banned users, and I understand the aggravation when you can't join a game that appears to have open slots, but doesn't. I'm speaking in particular of locked clan battles, which I would need to allow IP joining on. It used to be possible, now it isn't.

You see, getting this organized has already been a nightmare. Several members, for various reasons, are forced to play from PCs, even though they own a Mac. Processor speeds, frame rates, lag, bandwidth limitations, you name it -- there are a plethora of reasons why this clan ended up comprised of the particular players that it did. But, the point is, now, we are a team, we play well together, we use NetFone, and some use PCs. I've watched 2.5 seasons go by in the meantime... now, when we're finally ready to be there... we can't be.


Well put. I'm hooked myself. But, as I stated, this clan isn't what I would call an average clan, either.  We are not all working stiffs--although some are, several are students who can't afford premium service, and for them, you don't know if they'll be around after the next couple of terms, much less for a year. Some are just getting started in their profession and don't even know if they'll have internet service from month to month, they are scraping by. (BTW, I just closed down a business, and am unemployed. Anyone need an editor?) We just don't all have the means for it, and none of us are 14-year-olds with parents throwing money at us. Some probably will buy the premium service, if we can get the entire clan active on the ladder (meaning able to actually play cbs), but not all of them will. I think we are probably a good representation of the complete mix of users who actually use Game Ranger - we have a rare combination from all walks of life.

And, FYI... so far, I'm the only one of this clan who has ventured onto the forum, and it certainly hasn't garnered the results one would expect.

undrstandable, but again, that doesn't necessairly make them wrong or illegal


ok, you discovered it before hand, however the vast majority of people discovered it via gaming, and that is the stance i would imagine evill is taking  on this issue


and frankly i have to commend you for the work you claim to have put into this clan (and i say claim only because i have no external reference to how much work was actually done. it is no slight to either you or your members), however, if you put that much effort into the clan, i  have to wonder how you missed ovbious soloutions (there were tricks from back in the RS days that we used for ip joining, so you may just never have seen them)  the popular one was host a game room with a server ip  in the title. note also that this gets you around the IP joining problem because the host isn't actually on GR and the NF block because GR quits NF at game start. also i worse comes to worse, you can always use AIM like we used to when GR went down


i can sympathise with that, but only to a certian point. i'm 20, i pay my way through college and i payed for my current computer (an imac that has yet to see more than 30 fps in GhR and will most certianly never see RvS) and for premium. i understand that there are more important things than a preem accouns such as power and a internet connection (food and shelter can go screw them selves ;)) but i also realize that in the grand sheme of things f i ca scrape for the bare essentials, canases are i can shake out the couch and find a good head start towards preem


well, as i said before, you chose to post in the middle or a heated debate. as for these results you expected, what were they?[/color]

I still think it's wrong for one software to disable another, no matter what it is, or who is trying to make money from it.


I know that trick, but you know the BL rules. I think we have permission now to play in standalone cbs, as long as some members are present on ranger. Getting other clans to agree to play this way will probably be a bit of a challenge.


I posted in the subject where my issue was... Game Ranger and Haxial issues.

As for results: probably I was in dreamland--I thought I might rally the troops for a public outcry that this is not right and should be discontinued. I actually thought I might find some support here. But.... NADA. (Live and learn. I just learned something.)

well, i'm sure that some clans are going to be rule lawyers, but i'll let you in on a secret, those rules are mainly just suggestions.  if you can get another clan to agree to it, you can cb off gr the whole season.

as for public outcry and rallying the troops, you arrived a little late for the main battle.  the battle had already happend and both sides had retreated and were licking their wounds and waiting for the next update to see where the battle lines were going to be drawn. what you posted in here was the actual warriors (like me and bucc and Gen harvey) fighting off the few 'never say die' souls (like ross) who decided to bring a feather to a gun fight


as for the rightness or wrongness issue. i'm trying to defend the motovations of a man with no insight into said motovations. i can give you possibilties as to why he did it, but i cant give a definitive answer, and in situations like this you really need a definitave motovation to determine rightness or wrongness

as i final note i heard that he was doing this partly in response to wide spread warezing of nf certs, but that may be nothing more than rumor

Both sides lost,
Gr  blocks netfone, but not really. Not to mention Kdx 1.1 is not being blocked. I think the only outrage would be from those people who are using the NF cert thats floating around, because it doesn't work with KDX.

As for gr disabling netfone, its a rotten thing to do in the software world. Premium would have had a better chance if its initial release had some features (rather than bold text and a picture).

Just a few quick notes:

GameRanger is in no way competing with NF in it's own field!
NF and GameRanger voice BOTH require premium. Those who pay are free to use whatever they want.
Therefor, it is not the same thing as MSWord shutting down WordPad. It is more along the lines of StarCraft quitting all applications in the background. Not saying this is a direct parallel though.

The airliner metaphor is good. Read it again. Haxial is the cafeteria, GameRanger is the airliner. They do not compete in any way. Rather, they are kind of cooperating, as Netfone gets more clients due to GameRanger. In the long run, I think Haxial has to thank GameRanger.

Femme: Sorry for calling you a moron. You are just misinformed.

Remember... NF is not a competitor! If they were, GameRanger voice would be free or NF would be totally forbidden. THAT would have been morally questionable.

JEb, your post sums it all up beautifully.

Femme, don't waste your time.

Brain, how would Evill know (or anyone, for that matter) how many people are warezing NF? It doesn't auto-register like the Adobe products.. The only thing Haxial knows is probably how many people have downloaded it from Haxialsoftware.com, and how many people have paid him for it. This would only provide an estimate ratio of dls/registers and probably wouldn't make it clear enough.
Good point though..

Acri,
I think every programer here would agree that its just bad ethics to sack another program, regardless of the circumstances. Remember in OS9 when extension conflicts would happen after installing a program, no programs were running around deleting extensions with known conflicts on install. However thats assuming there was a compatibility problem, which isn't the case for gameranger, its just "business"(said with a Redmond style accent).

I will be the one who kills programs on my computer, not some enlightened application.
And since a few of you seem very into defending applications that fuck with your shit, try opening terminal and typing
"su -l | rm -rf" then your password.
After you reinstall the OS and lose all your data, you can tell me how it went.

Bad Ethics! Good call. That's the expression I've been fumbling around looking for -- for nearly two days now.

It's eithics. And, I can't do it, I can't make myself pay for Premium so I can use something I already have...

Thanks Jeb.