*DAMN R6 Forum

so the guys in clans.. you might wat to try to get everyone on premium asap..

im just wondering how the os 9er  are going to talk then.. we have one guy on os 9 and he can use nf to talk right now.. cant talk if evill does this

 This is typical of Evill, hence the fact that I hate that stupid prick.

I was happy to make my contribution to GameRanger, and appreciate the features of Premium, but I sure as hell won't be renuing it after this year - simply to make a statement - such things like this are unnescessasary loads of bullshit.  

lol I wonder how he wants to do that...

Welcome to the self centered world of software development. Unfortunately i think its wrong (ethics) for a program to prevent you from using another legitimate piece of commercial software. Its starting to look like the next version of GR will have .Net integration.

On the other hand, gr can try to block netfone, but there will be workarounds.

This isn't meant to say that i hate gr's voice chat feature, it has potential. Until you can choose who you want to connect to, netfone is superior. Only being able to talk to your team (defined by the ghr team), and only being able to talk while in a game is a drawback. I look forward to future improvements.

How on earth is he going to do that?! You can't... can you?!

Totally agree jeb. This is bad move from scott, I gotta say i think this is very wrong. Its like a damn monopoly - basically trying to force more people to use premium by stopping them being able to use voice communication through outside (netfone) methods. The words 'microsoft' come to mind for some reason.

Of course he couldn't stop you running NF on your other mac , or heaven forbid on a pc ;D mwhaha. etc

The voice chat in GR Just dosn't meet the standards that u can get from Netfone. Unless there is one hell of an inprovment in GR voice chat then it is no alternative.

I doubt i'll be renuing my premium...

I think there is a way to do this, and although I do want more of these freeloaders to go premium, I don't think Evill should justify that by disabling nf. I mean as of now NF is 10x better than GR premium chat.

My knowledge of the law is a bit fuzzy here, but to me it sounds like Haxial could have a grounds to sue the pants off of Evill if they wanted.  Offering an alternative is one thing, but making it so you have no choice but to use his software sounds a little bit like why micro$oft lost it's anti-trust case.

He would be able to search through the running process on your mac and kill netfone if it's running.

I think he can block some ports once you are joining a game... that way he can block the netfone port.

Searching for processes, can be called hacking, so he can't do that.

I will be using my other mac for netfone... That way I can connect or reconnect if one of my teammates is crashed + no netfone attacks... I just hope some of 'em have a second mac...

Or maybe he was just being a smart ass.  I'm surprised nobody has thought of that yet.

He cant just block the port, since you can change the port that NF uses.  He'd have to either script GR to shut it down when you go into a game or possibly completely take over the sound input device.  

In any case, I'd bet money that this is an example of Evill speculation / humor that's coming a bit out of context.  Kinda like musing that killing your professor is a good way to get out of a final.  Not that you'd do it, but you'd think / joke about it.  I could see him saying this in response to people asking him if he's driven up premium sales with voice, and then comments about how NF is better coming out of the peanut gallery making him say this.  

Oh, and btw, don't talk too much about anti-trust, since neither GR or Haxial are American companies (both Australlian) so their laws apply, and since you don't have to pay for GR, and most of the people that would complain haven't paid for NetFone, it wouldn't even count as anti-trust in America.

Crypt and Jeb, I happen to think GR chat is better then NetFone.  Remember, it's your opinion, not a fact, that NetFone is better.  They have different features, and I happen to like GR's feature set better.  It's not like NetFone is a great app.  

A quick list:
People say that you can't chat out of the game, but you can.  GR has normal voice chat outside the game, while in GR.  You just can't talk to people while you are in a game, and they aren't.  There is a difference.

Sure, you can only chat with others that have premium, but you can only chat with people that have netfone over netfone.  And Netfone isn't free either, even if most of you pirate it.

You may not be able to chat with people outside the game, but you also don't have to wait for everyone to leave and come back so everyone can connect and adjust volume when someone else with NF joins the game.  

You can talk to anyone in the game with GR chat, you don't need their IP's.

GR chat doesn't have the volume problems that Netfone does.

GR chat doesn't have voice activation that Netfone does.

Don't have to worry about chat spamming, or people connecting to you in NF while in the middle of a cb if you are using GR chat.

GR chat doesn't use as much bandwidth as Netfone.

Face it, GR chat was made for gaming, Netfone wasn't.  GR chat isn't meant to let you talk to your buddies outside of GR, outside of the game even, it was designed to let you talk to them inside the game.  

So it doesn't have voice activation yet, better that he gave it to us early while he worked on that, then waited for months more just so it would be in it.  Don't you agree?

I guess I'm just getting pissed off that since Evill has added this feature for us, I've heard 10 times more bitching about it then gratitude.  People suck and can't seem to be pleased with any progress.

Talked with a friend that's pretty knowledgable on the subject.  Even though neither company is based in the US, their products are sold in the US making them open for litigation.

I've paid for both products, and I think that it's great that Gameranger is trying to add features and improve.  I'd just like to have the choice on which one I can use.

Definatly, tis a great thing that scott is working on inproving Gameranger and its features, but its another to try to force monopoly by disabling the use of other applications... like i said before - think internet explorer... think microsoft.. etc.

and of course (like i said) just run NF on your second mac... if you have one.

I prefer to think he's being a smart ass ;D

he mentioned when he came out with the voice chat that he would do an OS9 version in the future. last night he did a 180 on that. he says why should he hold back features for OSX for the OS9 ppl. which isnt true, he'd just be giving the OS9 ppl what he already gave the OSX ppl. he also mentioned last night that he'll be making gr OSX only in the future.so the ppl with old macs (like me) are fucked. mr. kevill asked for our support by purchasing premium (and i did). now he stabs us in the back. like when he said premium was a one time payment...shortly after he switched it to yearly. Evill you suck ass! you're a fine programmer but a horrible businessman. get your shit together plz, contrary to popular belief not evrybody on gr uses OSX. and for those that do and want to rip on me for being outdated....fuck you too!  ;D

Gee, OS 9 was retired years ago, and is no longer being supported by APPLE even, why in the hell should GR support it?

He wants to keep improving GR, but you want him to do twice the work and make it work with an outdated OS too?  Poor fucking you.  You still run a PPC 604 or earlier, there's a bunch of shit that wont run on your system.  It's at least 6 years old now if it wont run OSX (G3's came out in '97 and iMac's in '98).  

There comes a time (notice Evill didn't say WHEN) when you have to let the old OS go.  It's long past time.  Running OS9 now is like running OS6 when OS9 came out.  Yeah, it would be real nice if my colorclassic was good for more then a cool conversation piece, but eventually, they are just too old to expect support for.  

For another thing, OSX has reportedly been much easier to develop on, so why should he hold something back from the majority of the users until he has it working for the OS9 people?  Why not bitch at Haxial because their products don't work with 8.6?  They need the carbonlib from OS9 at least to work.  So should they have to write another version of their products for people on system 7 or 8??

Splinter,

1) GR doesn't have to be paid for, 2) even when sold in the US, it isn't anti trust, it would be trade related then, 3) since NF isn't sold, or even advertised to be a gaming solution, it doesn't come close and 4) two apps being incompatible isn't actionable, GR isn't an OS that is shutting out other companies for it's product.  NetFone would still work fine when not using GR.  He doesn't have to make it so GR works with someone else's apps.  

Saying he'd have to is like saying Evill could file suit against a game publisher because they don't make their game playable over GR.  

Again, like I said, I think this whole thing was taken without the use of the Evill translator.

I still think its bullshit to take away nf and replace it with his inferior voice chat.

Yes Crypt, and that fine rebuttal just goes to show how well thought out and enlightened your opinion is.  Thank you for straightening me out.

three years old bucc not six.

I agree that GR works pretty well bucc,

I talked to evill lastnight about it, and i mentioned the need to have a user defined host. Rather than having the game host work as the voice chat host.  That way chat can happen outside of games, and there won't be any strain on the ghr host.

Evill said that he would like to try killing netfone (forcing people to use gameranger) rather than shutting gr down. He also said that he thinks its wrong to squash a legitamate app.

WHAT ABOUT OLD GAMES?! ROGUE SPEAR! HELLO?!

Umm... if he did that, GameRanger would truly suck.

ok.. he said that he was going to have GR send a message to NF to quit when you start a game in GR.. He tested it last night and he said it worked..............

he also said that GR will be os x only soon too... not as soon as the NF thing but he said it will happen!!!

I dont think Evill has the balls to do that. If he did then either the smart mac users (ie Jeb) would rework it and get around whatever evill does or the rest of us would just exhcange the IP to a host for a match over AOL and then join. Not using GR. THis would hurt evills economy and make him cry (yay!). I dont think evill is that stupid to pull a stunt like that.

We get 30 days to try out Premium right?  Well shit, I still have a week left.  If Evill is going to take away the NF option, then he had better make sure that the in game voice communication is available for all players.  I bet more than half of the people playing on gameranger aren't exactly the types of people who just throw $50 towards Australia.  I would also bet most of the people on GR are kids, who already begged their parents for money just to buy the games that they can play on GR.  I say we do what the PC world does: IP join.  GhR allows it, and it also allows NF.  Why would one person be able to decide to not only put passwords on rooms, but also to block NF?  WTF IS THAT?  Perhaps Evill thinks people will buy premium because NF will no longer be available.  I have a feeling though that more people will go elsewhere for GhR.  Maybe we should look into something like that.  A GhR public gaming platform.  I would pay someone $50 for that, and I can tell you it's not going to be some guy in Australia who decided what 3rd party software I use or do not use.  Is he also going to ban optical mice?  How about flat screen monitors?

.::|N| Noto

heh.. i have payed for both......

Evill needs some books on how to run a buisness

If it comes down to osx only we will have lost half our buds, if he does that we can all leave GR and use IRC for our games

Here is what i think, and only what -I- think, mind you, not the rest of The Co||ective.
It isnt worth our time to start arguing with each other (aka Bucc vs the world) over this issue, post suggestions on what to do about it or, in a non-argumentative way, post ways to deal with it, assuming it does happen.  If Evill does demonstrate true asshole-ish-ness and kill NF, then these suggestions will have to be given more thought, but if he realizes this would be virtual suicide for the GhR community on GR, and relents, then this will all be worthless posting anyway.  

So to kick it off, these would be my suggestions for dealing with the unhappy possibility of NF being killed.

Im not sure how it goes on over in PC land (are there any gaming programs for PCs?)  but it would have to revolve pretty much around IP joining, and people could add fluff n stuff after it starts stabalizing.  (ex for that would be someone making a page of static IP hosts, and allow the hosts to change their server's status from Active/Down/Dedicated, this is all assuming we write GR entirely out of the picture mind you)

Anywho,

EX: For a CB, the CB is organized like usual and then a host is decided on, ip is given out to everybody else, and then everyone logs off GR and IP joins.  

Or, EX for a normal game, ideal would be if host has 2 computers, logs onto gr and makes a room & locks it, w/ title giving IP of the host, ppl then log off & join hosts IP game (that is assuming we are worrying about NF in non-CB games)

Just my thoughts on it.  Last thought, somebody take pitty on Evill and pay for him to go to a business college and learn 1) PR, and 2) Marketing =P

my comments

remember that saturday GR was down for 3 hrs...... ok mb i should have gone out and done something  but bah... i am just a noob.... but anyway back to the 3 hrs thing... it was a taster of what could happen with no GR... so as far as i am concerend he can do what the hell he likes....

You couldn't buy a new computer in 2000 that wouldn't run OSX Cutter.  Sorry, try again.  Go ahead, tell us which machine you bought new in 2000 that can't run OSX, please.

For Snipe, the RS monkey, I have this: do the math about how much the RS community is still gaming on GR.  A quick gander at the GR web site shows us that RS wasn't even 3% of the top 15 games.  Call it 2% total.  And that's just games.  You know games like GR use a lot more people then RS, and I'm not even allowing for the people that still play RS but also play GhR.  Tell me where it makes business sense to worry about that small a part of the community?

For all the primates that are saying Evill needs to go to business school, etc, let me remind you that none of you mentioned P&L, and don't know what the fuck you are talking about.  You are just spoiled and bitching.  I guess you'd all be happier if GR closed down since it's lost so much money over the years then if it was trying to make money and survive?  Time for all of you to go to business school and shut the hell up about Evill's business plan.

It's sickening to listen to a bunch of spoiled kids bitch about GameRanger like it was something owed to them.

There are 125 games on gameranger. You think Evill should only care about the single top game?

I'm not putting down OSX. In fact, I love it! I can't wait for Panther to arrive in the mail! But to take away GameRanger for 9 is doing more taking away any other single application for 9, because as GR for 9 goes, about 75 other multiplayer games go with it. (VERY ROUGH/RANDOM ESTIMATE)

I would be perfectly content if Evill completely stopped updating GR for OS9, but to take it away completely is just... bad.



As for the NetFone thing: It's sketchy. I'd rather avoid comment on it until I hear some more about what everyone else has to say.

ok mr. smarter than everybody. i have a 2000 366 ibookse w/193 ram. look it up. even if it could run osx it would bog it down to the levels of my old apple IIc+. bucc my mac barely runs rs. so go ahead argue some more, i know you need your fix!

Sound like you work for Evill bucc.

I for one will not be paying for GR again if he blocks nf.  I'll use ichat...maybe.  GR chat is nice, but not when i have to hit a button everytime to use it, + its buggy as hell.

First, Evill cannot stop us from using NF. I'll guarantee you that |MP| will have an easy way around it.

Second, I think that if Evill specifically states that GR will stop NF during the game, then it's not a legal issue for him. Only if he did it covertly would he be in legal trouble.

Third, OS 9 is dead. Get over it. If you want your RS so bad, use classic.

Fourth, who the hell called Jewb a smart Mac user? :P

Fifth, if you don't like Evill's service, don't use it. It's as simple as that. The only people who have a right to bitch would be Premium's who paid for it before this was announced.

 Ace,

First, RS runs like shit in OS9. Purple + Shitty framerates make it unplayable.

Second, I'd honestly rather take the 30 seconds to boot into OS9 to run RS perfectly than take the same 30 seconds to open classic to run it like shit.

Third, old macs? If I only had a 366 iBook or something with 64 Megs of RAM, I sure as hell wouldn't be running OSX. Not everyone is able to shell out 2,000 bucks for a new mac.

I bought Premium, so I have a right to complain. Personally, I think it'd be within Evill's best interest not to take features away from non premium members. Non premium members not being able to post highlighted links is just a pain in the ass for us premium members. He's hurting both them and us by blocking non premium members from using to many of the features.

Oh yes, and lastly, Jeb, smart Mac User? Perhaps if you catch him early enough in the day.  

May sound that way No, but I'm just sick of hearing the whinny ass bitches who don't really have a clue.  

Like I said, how many of you would like it better if he just shut it off?


Did I say the single game?  I think he should worry about the games that are really being played, and new games coming out.  Which equals OSX in both cases.  

Look at the top 15 games on GR (and the numbers), All those games except RS can be played in OSX (not using classic).  That's 97% of the games played.  So he wont support Klingon Honor Guard anymore, so what, I haven't seen it played in over a year.

Don't talk about 125 games that are playable, talk about the games actually being played.


Funny, I have an iBookSE366 running Panther right fucking now dumbasses.  I even know that Typhy has seen a picture of it (http://www.tomorrowlan.com/baby/Pages/Image44.html).  It runs OSX just fine.  So don't give me bullshit about your computer not being able to run it.  It's not bogged down at all.  

And you can max it's RAM out for about $100, not a huge expense.  

Just another case of someone talking shit that they haven't tried yet.  So fuck you and your "smarter then everybody" comment, because you don't seem to know dick and I'm tired of being a nice guy to idiots.

ha ... you consider yourself a nice guy?

At least I'm not a dumbass.

bows head and slowly walks away.

hehe...only other bastard on gr with the same ibook had to be you huh? :P

anyway, thx for the enlightenment, i'm gonna try that out. should hold me over till i get a g5...or my wife kills me, whichever comes first. ;D

     Removing NF from the picture is a smart way for Evill to get more Premium sales. Who uses NF in the GhR world? Clans. I've never used NF for a pickup game, and I never planned on doing so because of the logistic difficulties. Now, if your clan's non-Premium members suddenly are cut off from the voice chat, they're probably gonna think about getting Premium pretty damn quick. Thus, more money for Evill.

     You guys have to remember that if somebody doesn't pay for GR, Evill doesn't give a rat's hairy butt about them. He's catering to the people who give him money, which is a pretty typical way to stay in business.

     That said, the only thing I don't like about how Evill is handling the voice chat is that when he first started talking about it working dynamically in-game, my thought was "hey, that'll be great for pickup games!" However, because 80% of GR's GhR players can't use the in-game voice chat, it is useless for that application. Personally, I'd like it if non-Premium users could hear the voice chat but not speak over it. But that would work at cross-purposes to Evill getting more money in the way mentioned above. So it'll never happen.

     Without the ability to use the voice chat for pickup games, I'd prefer to keep using NF for its ability to voice chat outside of games, too. Ah, well.

Cutter and Harvey, stop being drama queens. I said several times that OS 9 support would not be removed "soon" like you keep claiming here. I said "eventually." And no, Cutter, I never promised that there would be OS 9 support for the in-game voice comms - right from the start I said it *may* happen.

Typhy, Premium users can still click links typed by non-Premium users. They merely aren't highlighted.

Scott.

 The links thing is a minor annoyance. I just don't understand why you did it.

In order to impliment some advanced features in the future, Evill would possibly have to make GR OSX only, however, it seems that he could still have a stripped down version for OS9.


Quite hostile, although, I would hope that most of it is directed at Cutter. What I said still stands true with the ammount of RAM that I mentioned. What I failed to mention, though, is that if your machine can't run OSX ( acceptably ), then it can't play any games aside from things like Chessworks and Bolo, so you really won't have much of a use for GR. Like Bucc mentioned, Cutter, if you maxed out your RAM, you could run OSX.

 [/color]

<Conspiracy Theory>
Hmm, notice how Evill said nothing about NF. What could he be up to?
</Conspiracy Theory>

Evill I was just tring to noify the comunity so that the other would know what they might want to look at getting premium soon.

I think it is a smart move on Evills part. Like evill told me (and a few othes at the same time) OS 9 is holding back some things he can add to the premium users to have.. Get rid of os 9 support.. and he can add more things to the premium accounts makeing it better for all who truely injoy (and pay) for GR.

On the nf issue.. I have already begun trying out diff programs to use to talk ingame w/.. but evill also said that VOX activation for the GR chat would be added soon. So when that is added it WILL be more like NF.

BTW for those that have upgraded to panther and have found out that you GR chat wont work ingame anymore.... try using the ctrl,option, or command keys as you push to talk buttons.. it will work then.

Typhy, I am running panther on a 300Mhz G3, on which I play ghost recon. I am getting an avarage framerate of 20-30 FPS. I even have boosts up to 40 FPS. So it is possible to run Gameranger, Ghost Recon and Panther on a G3 300 Mhz. I can even run it with only 128 Mb of Ram. If you don't believe me I can get you a screenshot...(with a moving screensaver background)

And for all you whiners, stop annoying Evill! Be pleased that he does this for the Mac Community!

Back to the issue: Maybe Evill can buy a license from netfone. Integrate it into Gameranger as an extra panel, with all the  netfone options on it. And the option to only let buddys connect to you with a separate buddylist. (of course only for premium accounts... that way Evill (as well as Haxial) will finally get payed for all the work he puts into this.) Gameranger and Haxial are both Australian so its possible to do this. And its totally legal.
I don't care paying another 5-10$(?) more for my premium, just to get this extra option. 60$(?) a YEAR isn't much!!

th.Sent

The sooner it goes osx only the better. People have had plenty of time to update and move on. You can't expect Evill to continue to support an out of date OS.

On the other side it sounds silly if Evill decides to block out netfone. Would be better if he compete with netfone with better futures rather than block them out. But I am sure he is already working on new features.

Its annoying to see when people get something for free for years they start complaining when they get the option to pay for it. If it wasn't for Evill none of us would have meet and the things we take for granted like this forum and the battle league would never have happened.

Another thing you people who still play R6 and RS on os9 and complain about GR going osx only STFU. If it wasn't for Evill you would never have been playing the game online in the first place. So if he want's to go osx only then fine by me.

woah heh this has gone way past the topic but hey.

Ross is right on this one. You can't ask people to support os9 anymore. Its just a dead system. Apple has killed it and so have most mac users, and for good reason. There was a reason for spending so much time developing X - and it wasn't just as a 'perhaps hmm thats quite nice' alternative system to 9. Its a REPLACMENT.

Going by the number of games currenlty beiing played on the Damn bl ladder for RS well its not exactly a wild party is it. look at the differnence between RS games played and GR games played.  Why the hell should Scott have to support os9 still? are new games coming out now supporting osx? no not in general - look:
Doom 3                : OSX
Halo                     : OSX
Raven Shield        : OSX
Wakeboarder        : OSX
Splintercell           : OSX
World of Warcraft : OSX

The list goes on and on and on. Look at big developers as well like macromedia and adobe? do you see them pushing support for OS9? err no..

 feel free to keep os9 and play RS but don't bitch if you can't accept that you are a minority.  why expect people to support it? its so very simple: os9 is no longer the mac OS.

Typhy, even with 192MB, Panther runs ok on an iBookSE.  It's max is supposed to be 320MB, and I've already talked to Cutter about spending the $40 to get that module.  BTW, there are a few other games you can play on that machine, just not graphics intensive ones, because it never had a good video chipset.

R6 for Mac was published in November of '99, making it 4 years old now, Rogue Spear for Mac was released in December of '00, making it 3 years old next month.  The iBook SE didn't even meet the minimum video requirements for Rogue Spear (it only has 4MB of video RAM).  How long should games that aren't widely played be supported?  Face it, you can always hook up on GR and IP join a game.

You don't buy an iBook for 3D gaming and expect it to work with all the latest games, because that's not it's niche.  Especially 3.5 years later.  But an iBookSE will run OSX just fine, and let you still use the other 90% of applications the average person uses a laptop for in a day.

More on topic, I think Evill should just make GR paid only.  He should drop the price by $10 just to make people think they are getting a deal (but when you look at what people pay for Everquest or WW2online, $50/year is nothing).  The dropping the price is all perception, which he would then make up in volume.  But it would stop most of this bitching.  People would either see it's worth, pay, and get over it, or they wouldn't, but they wouldn't be on GR bitching about it all the time either.  Just my opinion, but the guy is just trying to make a buck off something he's sweated over for years, and I can't hold that against him.

Too many people want something for nothing, and then find ways to bitch about it anyway.  I don't think that Evill should mess with NetFone, but I do believe he should just kick the nancy boys out, make it premium only, and move forward.  

I don't work for Evill, I'm not an Admin, and I don't think Evill is perfect.  He makes mistakes.  But I give him a bucket load of respect for what he's done, and even more for what he puts up with to keep GR running.  Every time I've had a problem or bug with something in GR, Evill has taken the time to work on it and fix it.  And not just me, I've seen him do it with others.  Where do you get that kind of support?  Not many places, that's for damn sure.  So just quit baggin on Evill.  I've asked the question twice, but nobody has wanted to answer it yet.  Would you rather he just shut it down and it wasn't there?

Obviously, this doesn't apply to everyone, as others feel the same way I do.  

One last note, Sentinel, he wouldn't want to license NetFone because from a technical and network standpoint, GR chat is superior to NetFone.  It's features that people are complaining about, and he can add and change features as he sees fit.  But GR chat uses compression, less bandwidth, central server, etc.  People may want to have a few more features (like being able to ignore just some users, chatting out of games, voice activation, whatever), but the underlying technology for chatting in games is better the way Evill has it designed.  

Amen! bucc! right on!

But I still hope he adds some kind of xtra panel, so we can add premium members to have a group voice chat or something.

Anyway good job Evill!!! If I had more money I would donate you some, but I'm only 21 and just started working... Maybe in a couple of years...

Well tnx again,
th.Sent

yeah yeah yeah.... ok evill you did say that you were going to do a OS9 version. i never said you promised, i said you said. and to the issue of my ibook, it is a 2000 366 ibookse w/ 193 ram. when i got it i was told the max ram i could go was from 64 to 193, so i did it.  not having looked into it much since then, i've been going on other ppl's words about not being able to run osx. i've since learned (thx bucc) that later they made a ram avalible for my ibook up to 350 something. with that i could run osx and it would also signifigantly help with the games i do run. and i told evill a while ago that he should make gr pay to play (like xbox live or something). if he's going to try to make a living off of gr it might as well be a nice living.
and i have paid for premium, so when evill announced the new in-game voice chat i was verry happy. especially when he mentioned to me that later he may add OS9 support for it. now he's changed his mind about that. no big deal, i'll just have to finally upgrade. oh yeah, ross...fuck you, bfg...fuck you, and sent...fuck you!    thx again bucc ;D

Don't you just love the maturity of these guys. The way they put words to paper... its just beautiful  ;) ty cutter lol

coupla things

I agree 100% that we would have none of this without GR in the first place. All of what we are discussing is a product of Scott's hard work and dedication. He doesn't have to be perfect, but he should respond to user cooments, which he does. Regularly. And well.

Before GR added voice chat, people were always complaining about netfone, it crashed too much, the sound and volume problems, the lag, etc etc. There were few if any choices to replace it. Now we have a choice, and they both have pros and cons. Most people suddenly LOVE netfone? I doubt it. I'm sure when GR gets updated again, the voice feature will be improved, and this argument will be moot. For my money, the voice activation thing is the only real issue.. other than that, the GR chat is better. (Except when I get to use my second machine as a separate NF device, but I digress).

Life without GR would be worse. Much less convenient. Right now, we all know where to be. The games are ALWAYS there. No hunting, no scheduling, no trial and error and typing in IPs in that ridiculous GhR menu. You can play anytime, anywhere. It's really amazing, if you think about it.

Last, most importantly...Bucc's kids are just beautiful, aren't they. And the room is just smashing. Fine work, Bucc. Bring 'em on over and they can wrastle with my twins....

I was thinking this morning that there might be a compromise solution if Scott is amenable. The point of these is to encourage ppl to go premium, but give them what they want once they do....

1) Allow premium members to host locked cb-only rooms, which are used only for cb's, and permit the use of netfone for everyone in the room.

2) Allow premiuim users to have the choice of netfone or voicechat. Free users get neither. Take it or leave it, you haven't paid, so be happy you have anything at all...or use the free version of GR to chit chat and pull together IP-join games.

I assume this serves everyone's purposes. Evill gets an additional incentive to go premium, and the premium users get to use their preferred voice communications, which ever they like. The losers are the free-loaders... but there has to be some incentive to pay for this service, right?

My only thing with all of this, is if you have paid for Netfone, then you should be able to use it, regardless of Gameranger or anything else.

I agree, but I would take it a step further. As long as you paid for NF or Haxial allows a free trial, you should be able to use it regardless of any other apps on your system. In my book, an app that surreptiously kills other apps is spyware.

I was thinking about sugesting the same thing. This will allow any os 9er that has payed for GR premium to be able to chat on NF sence GR chat will not work for them.

Looks like it will just be a case of waiting and seeing what Scott does.. I wonder if and when the next point release of gameranger will be and what will change.
Whatever happens things will get sorted out one way or another.