*DAMN R6 Forum

 ::applause::

Flies, you forgot to mention how some clans try to lag hosts lagtests by taking a support gun and laying on the trigger!  They would never do this on their own clan's host and when asked why, I have heard the answer, "to try and crash your clans host".  WTF?? I think that this shouldn't be alllowed.

Most lagg trest that i have doen normaly only take one test. I know the clans i have played agaist has played a lagg test like a normal game.i know if im playing on a euro host.. i will expext a little lagg so i live w/ it. I dont realy see a need to do the lagg test the way you r sugesting. I mean if one lagg test seen to do fine in most of the cb's i have been in they y do we need to have to do more.

Nice ideas and all, but if you realize this is only just a game, just deal with the lag if it'snot too bad.

I think Flies starts a good discussion here: find a way to minimize lag to have better games. But i'm quite pessimistic on how to achieve this, altough i found the NF tips interesting.

Flies is definitely doing the right thing here, since a lot of the clans on gameranger are USA, and a lot are Euro, there has to be some way to get along in cb's, I mean, I'm fine with Flies host, cb's and regular games. What do you guys think?

Ok i just read everything, and i'm sorry i didnt post sooner.  First of all, not to take sides at all, but i'm glade flies started this thread, maybe through this topic we can find a way to a) Find a agree able host beweet USA and euro players (though i dont see how as of yet) or b) find a way to speed   up lagtests / pregame.

Having said this...after playing the cb with | ! | about a week ago i ( i and all the c| [USA] members) found that on their host we had a 1 to .5 seconed lag, which would kill us.  Same thing for them on our host i'm sure.  Remember the cb flies?  You guys won all the games on your host, and we won all the games on our host, side from one.  We didnt feel good about this at all.  Not like we hold this agenst core, it's just that we saw the problem and couldnt do anything about it.  I mean i'm shooting at the guy (5-10 round) and then i die...

We need something here, cause i for one am not looking forward to cbing in the finals on a euro host.

P.S. ty for the netfone tip.

I don't see any real reason to complain about it really, i mean im starting to agree with voods here, lag is lag, nothing you can do about it.

Think there are issues that could definatly do with sorting out. just while i think of it i think regarding NF its worth mentioning (agian?) that guys need to turn on the feature when the mic only starts recording when u start talking! There is nothing worse than having a mic recording 24/7 becasue your simply using up unneccesary bandwidth...

The euro/US debate over servers... Some servers are a lot better than others at being able to handle cross continant gameplay.. and i think its worth people trying out to see how their servers handle - it can be surprising... for instance when saberian hosts in the US i normally suffer some lag... yet when i host and he joins he's normally absolutly fine... his connection is much faster than mine btw as well!

flies appologies if we were shouting lag in the sige game yesterday ;0) i don't think it was you at all... (BFG's Finger points at Skillz brother streaming movies of net at same time as cb) ;)

regarding lagtests... I find on small docks that guys just don't play like they do in cb's.. the chances of someone letting of 12GL's in quick sucsesson and running around on full auto well... are prett damn far fetched.. Its good to see the limitations of the server but at the same time wouldn't it be more productive if we somehow got people to play their lag tests as they would play their game - so we ahve the most accurate sense of how the lag in the games will be?

     There are two things I wish to say at this point. First, the "automatically start recording" option in NetFone does not do what you described, BFG. Rather, it automatically "clicks" the Start Recording button when a connection is made, and "clicks" Stop Recording when all connections are closed. To prevent the "open mic" problem that you talked about, the offending person needs to adjust their silence sensitivity to a higher level.
     Second, in terms of preventing lag, the bandwidth of the host's connection is not as important as the latency (AKA "ping") thereof. <tech-talk lesson>Imagine a boxcar filled with hard drives, say, 3 petabytes worth. Now the boxcar is hauled from one coast of America to the other, and it takes 4 days. In this case, the bandwidth of the boxcar-over-rails system would be 3 petabytes, and the latency would be 4 days.</tech-talk lesson> A host with a low-latency connection will host better games than another host who may have the same bandwidth but inferior latency. How do you improve your latency? Switch ISPs and hope.

To expand on Loth's tech lesson, it's a balance.

What he said is true, assuming there is enough bandwidth for all the users on the server.  Bandwidth = # of players before lag  Latency = automatic lag, CPU (RAM, etc) = amount of action before lag.  

So, for example, MP Server 2 has more then enough bandwidth for 36 players, if they all have low pings.  However, it does crash, as the cpu gets overloaded, especially when it's calculating a hundred grenades on embassy from everyone spamming nades with the OICW/GL.  This isn't just theory, btw, I've actually watched both the bandwidth and processor usage while people have been playing on it.  Almost all the crashes and time-outs were do to spiking the processor (for whatever reasons, including it being a buggy game).

ok yep i called it bandwidth purley for simplification, basically we are talking the speed of the connection yeah be it latency/bandwidth etc.

Yeah i blew a blinder on the 'auto start stop'. my bad. Silence senistivity yes, auto start stop no! ;)

Problem fixed...

Everyone moves to the USA!

Over my dead body...  ;D

The way you shoot, that can be arranged with ease =P

Also, don't forget that the more people you have connected over NF, the more it will clog your own connection.  Most people have about 128k up that are on broadband. That means that talking to 5 people at the same time at the lowest setting can pretty much fill your connection (when transmitting), not even counting the game.  

Here's a good rule.  Nobody on airport (or any wifi router).  Wireless routers drop and repeat packets all the time.  Great example was Brain at home.  Good pings to my server, plenty of bandwidth and computer, but would warp all over at times.  

Also, don't forget that lag is shared.  If there are laggy people on the server, it effects even those with good connections.  I've warped with a 0 ping on a 100bT connection, because the server was backing up to correct for some others that had some major warp.

One last note.  Don't forget that while your connection speeds are supposed to be xxx up and xxx down, that doesn't mean it's what you are getting.  If you are on a cable modem, and someone on your block is all over kazaa, or two of them even, that can effect your bandwidth.  Same with DSL, just at a different place.  So, unless you have a SLR that tells you what your bandwidth will really be, and you test it, understand that sometimes, your connection will not be as good as normal.

Oh, one more thing, almost forgot, the damn blaster worm going around still does cause lag too.  Since I'm on a business T1, with way too many Windoze servers on the loop, I'm getting hit all the time by two worms trying to get in.  They don't do anything except take up bandwidth, but they will cause lag at times when nobody knows what's up.

Ouch bucc ;) im mortally wounded... oh hell i would be if you could manage to shoot me. :P

true of course that you can only be as lag free as the server... no point being next door to it if the thing is being bogged down by 56k'ers on the otherside of the world all using NF ;)

Yeah, that's why we don't let you on it =P

Using a dedicated host vs a normal host/client makes a big difference. My 450 MHz G4 Cube can handle 36 players on all but a handful of maps when hosting as a dedicated server. The other day I tried hosting a 36 player game on my Dual 2 GHz G5, and it was lagging to keep up with ~25 people. GhR is a shitty port, and decoupling the client and the server makes a huge difference.

What about the risk of PC players joining?  So you get your password, then boot up your PC right next to you, and ip join (cheats active)...

Dr. No that ones easy.  Get a dedicated host (or the normal host) to set the room up for buddies only.  Let Gameranger set the password.  Have the host buddylist only the players involved in the cb.  Viola (spelled wrong probably), room is closed to those who arent invited and ip joining is stopped cold.

Or, do what I often do, set a password which is easy to remember while players join, then change it after everyone has entered.  Repeat the process if someone is disconnected.

Flies- Where are you going with this individual password thing anyway?

it would be nice to test this uberhoster before the finals...

bucc:  (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/YaBBImages/ass.gif)

oh the joys of using 56k... Lol and to remember reading an article by the guys developing Ghost recon for mac - actually saying that it was very playable on a 65k and that you could actually get better performance than cable... lol

I had 56k for a month or so recently before I moved to LA and I must say the times that it hampered my game were very few and I was surprised that I could maintain my cable-modem level of gameplay.  The main drawback was that I could talk to, at most, one person on netfone. ::)

Honestly? I can think of many many times when a couple of 56k gamers joined a server and lagged the entire game considerably. Perhaps of course there were other factors... perhaps im just damn relieved not to be using 56k anymore ;)

Playing on 56k is completely possible in Ghost Recon.  I've looked at the bandwidth used and for smaller games and it was only about 2k-3k per user.  It's not quite a liner progression on the server side (with 36 players it runs from 70k/sec to 115k/sec)  but with 12 players on it's been pretty steady at 25k-38k.

So playing on 56k should be fine without NF clogging up the works, if your latency is still good.  That and remember that just because you are on a 56gay doesn't mean you'll connect that well.  When I dial up I usually get closer to 36.

point taken. I think my latency just sucked (yes yes and me as well ;) )
heh i never got anything like 56k ... max download speads were usually about 3.5k! woah slow down baby!