*DAMN R6 Forum

The last cb against SL was NOT approved by eight, signtist, or myself.
We are sending you a replay for review.

Ok so here it goes

www.battleteksquad.com/files/fridgebf.rpf

Ok so 2 things

1. why is it that replays of fridge tend to crash peoples computers?
2. the bullets in question... when u slow it down an look from my view... fridge first kills fusion then runs for the base... yes i did miss alot of times but the one where i move all the way to the left... then start moving to the right (the 6th time i hit the trigger) one of the tracer bullets (you might have to restart replay in order to alternate the tracer fire) goes right through his neck while he is trying to get down....

How odd ehh?

Anyone else finding it very hard to kill fridge with guns?

be sure to "save as" the link above....

Just to let ya know Eight, I tried ure link but it dosen't seem to work.  As for fridge we did play him a mock cb that we thought about the smae thing as well when it comes to Fridge killing all 3 of us 6 games in a row and his other players pretty much blew ass, then the last 2 we played he killed 2 of our guys and the third was killed by one of his boys.  I do agree that it was dodgy because we did have some of our best players in that mock cb, and for us to lose not really to their team but fridge alone was quite odd.  I believe flies might have some info on the same thing happening in his cb as well.  It's just odd that us, being some of the best players of last season getting pwned by a guy that hasnt played in 1 CB before this season.  Kinda odd.  
     Srry, but I had to say something here becase what Eight has written matches a lot of what happened when we did the mock cb with -sl-.  Not to put down the clan but without Fridge, -sl- would be pwned by almost every clan on the Mac market today.  So yes, it does seem quite odd that this is al happening now.

+MOD+Saberian

BTW, thanks for fixing that issue with our game against X1 =)

Ok, on eight's first point, did any of my replays or your replays crash from our cb???

On his second point, a tracer is not a bullet as it is in real life, it's a graphical effect, let me explain, hypothetically you are playing red square no fog, u can see across the whole map... now, on one side a guy is ducked, on the other a guy shoots above his head, a bullet mark above his head is made instantly, now the tracer across that distance will take over a second to make it likey, either way, it will take a hell of a lot longer than the instant bullet, now say that guy stands up and is now in the path of the tracer, and say the tracer goes through his head, does he die, no, because that would be to say that 2 bullets were fired, but we all know that the bullet is long gone.  Not only that but tracers don't even follow the same paths as the shots often, on every burst on the replay eight u can see where each of your bullets hit, for anybody watching it, play it in 0.25 speed and watch, you will see every bullet impression miss me, yeah i was a lucky son of a bitch, but there's no evidence i cheated as you can see each impression from each burst hit another location that me.  

I would also like to ask how could i possibly make a cheat that made me invincible to bullets on another person's server??  wouldn't that have to be serverside?  That would be to say that you could modify the number of bullets in your clip in your weps files and go into another server with that many bullets, that would be to say that anybody could for example modify their zoom on their guns and never be caught.  If that were the case there would be a big deal out of it, but there isn't because it doens't exist.

To saberian, I don't see where you're going with what you're saying, "he killed a lot of us in a cb, CHEATER!!!"  and if you're referring in any way to the instance where i shot you when you were way in the fog, it was a blidshot, i used the corner of my screen, landmarked then shot, watch the replay you'll see me do it.  

Lastly to saberian, dont' say that without me SL~ wouldn't be anything because that is complete b.s, there's no way in hell i could win a cb on my own, some ppl lay the sensors some ppl make the shots and toss the nades, it's just how it works, it's not like if u gave me 2 AI's in that cb we could have beaten you, everybody works together and works out ideas on nf.  

THIS SEASON IS GETTING OUT OF CONTROL WITH ALL THE CONTROVERSY AND ALLEGATIONS.

Guys...fridge is not cheating.  I have played with him countless times, watched him in replays and cbs, and have played against him.  I know for a fact that he is not cheating, but he is a great player and a great team member...so lay off it already! :-P  SL~ won fair and square.

So how do know for a FACT that he not cheating?

As for fridge's post...

Notice how u say long distance yet i was standing in front of fridge... so this 1 second theory doesnt really work for me...

Okay, in response to eight, Yes, I'm using long distance because of time issues, however at the distance you were, the tracers are still off by a couple inches, and now, also look at how far my character moves in the time it takes for each tracer to travel, another couple inches, so we're talking about around a 4 inch discrepency here and if you watch the burst where you claim a tracer went through me, and very well may have, you see there are bullet impressions very close to my character, within 4 inches.

yeah fridge the impressions were right behind u in place of where the tracer was going.... yet it didnt hit your body....

Yes its the problem drop box an i have a problem with people using cheats and how they use it.

Civic, moley took out a texture so that fog didn't show up, that is nothing related to what i'm stating

I AM BEYOND PISSED OFF NOW, I AM FURIOUS WITH THIS SHIT, THAT'S ALL IT IS, SHIT!  

|GM|Gen.Harvey?AFK: we r not shure what cheet he uses
|GM|Gen.Harvey?AFK: but he has said that he does when he was in GM
|GM|Gen.Harvey?AFK: i say we try to get all the clans to bycit cbing SL till fridge can prove other wise
|GM|Gen.Harvey?AFK: boycot
|GM|Gen.Harvey?AFK: c| is watching fridge too
|GM|Gen.Harvey?AFK: anlong w/ the bl admins

MY GOD, EVERYBODY WANTS A PIECE OF ME TODAY!!
Harvey you attention whore, that's all i can say
He is bringing up a time when a noob said i was cheating because i killed off their whole team in a rush, and I said jokingly, "oh yeah, I use every cheat known to Ghost Recon"
Harvey knew it was a joke, so did everybody who saw me write it, harvey and other ppl just laughed at it, and then Harvey comes on here saying I fully admitted to cheating trying to incriminate me, you are beyond sad, why don't you just run naked down times square with swastikas drawn on you if you want attention that badly.

Everybody is coming at me saying I'm a cheater and WITH NOTHING TO SHOW, THEIR MAIN ARGUMENT IS, HE KILLED ME A LOT!  ffs wizen up.

OK now we were having a clan leader dicution on the matter so we could all talk.
I have not posted anything about you on here fridge. i leave it up to other clan to decide. But we do have replays of you using glitches in games (not cb's) so you cannot say that you never cheat!

lol Flies "Fridge" character.

Come guys, there's no way in hell Fridge would be invicible  !!!!!

i dont like the guy, but when he plays Ghost Recon, he's just very damn good. The problem is , when people play very good, others think he's a cheater. We should really be very carefull before stating than a player is cheating.
If a bullet went thru his neck, he just got lucky and that's it. Doesnt mean he was cheating.

You guys aren't giving fridge any chance at all, to say something.  Listen to him for a second, and hear him out.  You guys are asking him to come clean from cheating, when for all you know, he never has.  Put yourself in his position.  What would you be doing if you were accused of something by everyone, for something you didn't do.

Flies, after reviewing the replay, it didn't appear that fridge was glitching.  At multiple angles, multiple times, I paused the replay, and at no point did it appear that fridge was glitching.  But I am not the least bit sure of this.  I think bringing in a BL admin would make the most sense on this.  I just hope they don't make any biased decisions from past experiences.

now flies is on me to, let me walk you through all of my actions, it's still very fresh on my mind

before any kills yet made, the "Fridge" character spots the enemy, and then lay completely down in crater.? While in the crater he places a sensor that appears to give him no visual enemy on map. He keeps lying down in crater, and uses the lying position to his advantage, to scan for enemies over the edge of crater.

Flies, i'm lying in the crater and not sticking over it, not glitching, it's only a glitch when you're overlooking the edge lyingn prone, why i'm lying still, because the WZ was just taken, meaning somebody was in very close proximity to me, and i was looking at me map and trying to figure their spawn, our guys locations and where he had likely run to after grabbing the wz in relation to that, so I could plan my move, I'm sorry, where is the cheating in that?

Next,
When the "Fridge" character is moving for the Warzone, and gets shot at from Eight, he again turns toward crater, and goes into lying-position. He also uses the lying position to fire at Eight over the edge of crater.

Uh, duh flies, i got to the crater for cover, again i was not using the edge as a glitch, then I started shooting try to scare eight to cover so i could reposition and possibly get enough time for vec to move in and take out eight for me.? It's reflexes flies, u take cover when being shot at, that's a no brainer, again, where is the glitching in that?

Finally,
The last kill done by "Fridge" character towards BT is really admireable. I havent yet seen the BT-character popping up, before Fridge-character is shooting him.

Flies, keep in mind that at this time my dead teammate is on spectating me on full zoom, I knew signtist was in the cathedral because i saw him run there on map, so I reposition and wait for him to come out, anyways, if you'll notice above the wall on the right you'll see signtist's head poking above it, I couldn't see it but my teammate on full zoom did and told me he saw his head so i got down and waited, expecting him to come into view, sure enough, he then comes clearly into sight and i get the shots off. I'm sorry, where is the glitchign in any of this?                                                                                

Ok, just to clarify this whole glitching thing so that mods don't think i was glitching and force a replay, I was never in a position where I could kill another person by bullets and not be killed myself by bullets, lying down in the center of a crater is not glitching, the second you are visible, you are killable, lying on the edge of a crater is glitching, that's an edge glitch, being in the middle is just taking cover, that's like saying being inside one of the walled in boxes in the ruins in castle day is glitching.? I was not lying prone on the edge of a crater overlooking the edge, I think even BTs will give me that much.                                                                                

I'm getting a headache

c| is not watching Fridge lol, nor are the BL admins, i dont know why he would say that.  And whats more, if we were "watching Fridge" for cheats err whatever, we probly would not have cb'ed them the other day (for the recored we saw nothing fishy about fridge or any SL~ member in that cb).  An untill i can see the replay (link wont work for me) i have nothing to say other then you all should just calm down untill we (thee admins and mauti) can get a look at it.  One thing i will say is this, when your viewing someone else play, even in a replay, things are not all aimed up right.  Your looking at your buddy shoot, but he seems to be off target by an inch err 2 but still seems to get a kill.  We might be seeing the same thing here in this replay (i have not seen the replay yet, i'm just saying...).

Thank god.  It's about time some sanity and common-sense was brought to this topic.  It was getting out of control, and went from one little game dispute, to full fledged accusation of cheating.  

Doc if you read my post i did say "save as" on the link....

Um.. every time I try to view the replay GhR unexpectedly quits... help?

yeah haz... download the warzone mod i heard this was an issue... if not then i dont know what is..

Yes, that was the problem for many.

The thing about every one watching fridge was what someone told fridge that was in the room. I was just making a point that i have heard of other peeps suspecting this. I told fridge when we let him go from GM that we had gotten complaints from other clans and other clans had told me that several BL admins were watching him too. I was stating what i had heard so we could figure out what was realy going on. I am going to stay as nutral as possible on this subject. but i will say. till it is cleared up GM will not cb SL~. now once this matter is cleared up. I would be happy to cb them. one other thing. I know that BTs agreed to Vector playing in the cb even though he has not been in SL~ but only two days. I did inform BTs of this just to make sure they knew b/c he just left |GM| on friday of last week. BTs said they agreed to it. JUst know if Vector cb's in your game this week that you are ok w/ him playing in it een though he has been in SL~ for under a week.

And from what i can see in the replay. i could not tell if the bullets missed him or not. I know you can tweek diff areas of the body to make it so a bullet can kill you there or not (ie during some testing (w/ out any modded files on) that me and fridge did fridge shot me 120 times in the chest w/ a pistol and didnt even wound me where as i shot him in the head= instant kill. just showing that diff areas cave diff kill vaues on them that can be changed). Im not saying that it was done im just saying it can be done.
As for the glitch issue. I saw the same thing that sab said he saw. I have not payed attesion to the whole replay b/c i was just watching that one part of it so i dont know if a glitch was used anyother time. but in the eight/ fridge shootout. it was hard for me to tell. b/c in some veiws you could see part of fridge in the creator at that close of range. but imo that does not mean he might have used a glitch.

  I have checked with all of the clans I have cbed, and all have understood that I am not a 7 day member, and have agreed to change the rule.

---30.???All rules can be modified if both clans agree to it.

btw harvey, that wasn't tweaking your character so that you couldn't be killed, that was just me shooting a support guy in his chest armor with 9mm bullets.  It's very clear I didn't glitch, what people need to understand is that you're only glitching in a crater if you are lying down on the lip of the crater with your head just over the edge, it's just a classic example of the commong lying prone on the edge of an incline glitch, lying in the actual crater depths is not a glitch in the game as you can not put yourself in a position where you can kill without possibly being killed in return by doing so.  Secondly even if i was utilizing that crater glitch eight would still have been able to kill be due to the fact that he was above me not at the same level as me or below me, but I wasn't glitching anyways, just saying that.  The only issue here is whether or not i somehow someway and out of complete retartedness which would be extremely obvious, extremely complicated if even possible which I doubt, managed to make myself invincible to bullets.  The whole tracer argument against me I've disproven over and over, and so what is left to discuss here?  Nothing, so drop the issue once and for all.

Flies,

I did check the replay: i had the view from behind Fridge, and what i saw is that he reacted rapidly to a threat by laying down. He could have been anywhere else but he was in a crater. It's hard to say if he was touchable at this point.
Its not our role to judge what happened: the ones that make the rules should enforce them. An admin should check the replay and settle this thing ASAP.

Cheers

well, this should silence the whole issue of me cheating once and for all, this is a screenshot taken of the moment eight is talking about where a tracer goes through my neck, as i have stated time and time over, the tracer is just a graphical effect, not an actual bullet...

Take a look at the screenshot, although, yes you can see the tracer about to enter my neck, notice that all 3 of the shots from the burst can be seen hitting the ground around me, those are the real bullets, the tracer as i said is just an effect, the shots missed me as proven in this ss

http://www.angelfire.com/mac2/darren/proof.jpg

Flies, keep in mind that at this time my dead teammate is on spectating me on full zoom, I knew signtist was in the cathedral because i saw him run there on map, so I reposition and wait for him to come out, anyways, if you'll notice above the wall on the right you'll see signtist's head poking above it, I couldn't see it but my teammate on full zoom did and told me he saw his head so i got down and waited, expecting him to come into view, sure enough, he then comes clearly into sight and i get the shots off. I'm sorry, where is the glitchign in any of this??  


Um using your teamate and the extended zoom they get when dead IS CHEATING.

LOL

there is no rule saying you cannot do this. Im sure that evryone that has played w/ NF on has done this.

how is anyone gonna stop people from doing it? replays don't show what people do when they are dead.

ok fridge admitted he layed down in crater
laying down in a crater is a glitch he??
now maybe you didnt shoot or so but you glitched if laying down is a glitch
n amtter when you do it there can always pop up a nade or an enemy to kill you while you were laying there so its glitching.
correct me if I am wrong with laying down in acrater is a glitch because I am not sure anymore at the moment. ill take a looka t the reply whne I have time
as flies says its a good movie

You seem to be under the impression that laying down anywhere in a crater is glitching, which is not true.  There is nothing wrong with laying down in the center.  It's just when you get closer the the edge of the crater, that chance of glitching increases.  And on the matter of fridge glitching in that replay, I would like to see what the BL Admins think, because it doesn't looking like glitching to me, but it's possible that it was.  Even after triple checking the replay, it's still hard to tell.

true

 :o

quick comment...
Eights reticual is a few feet to the left of fridge, those 4 yellow dashes represents the maximum spread of the bullets he was firing. He could not have hit him, and remember Its only a tracer.
Also
Being in or laying down is a crater is not a glitch, the only glitch is when you try to crawl over the edge.

You guys need to relearn what glitching is. Learn what glitching is, and then don't do anything that makes you glitch. Contrary to the "flies" character's belief, laying down in a crater is not an insta-glitch.

They alwasy said to me never lay down in a crater
well if you say its not glitching in center but closer to the edge it is then we can go discuss if he was close enough or not. Lets keep it simple and say laying down is a glitch otherwise its getting hard for me

Flies, this thread is from the Problem Drop Box.

For anyone unclear about the whole glitch thing, there was a lovely link to an article on the subject, with technical geek lingo and all that, regarding collision surfaces...can't find the link now, sorry. it's a really great article.

I know this was pointed out before, but I'll repeat it, cause it seems like many people missed it: if you try to judge what you see in a replay as if it is a precise recreation of the game as it occurred, you will always find inconsistencies and dissappoinments. Just as when you observe the game through someone else's eyes after you die, things just don't seem to 'line up'. For me, it always seems like people are aiming several feet to the left of what they are hitting. The timing is off. There are skips and jumps, etc. Not unlike the occasional lags or warps that happen when you're really playing.

People start looking at this stuff too closely, if you ask me. Watching something at 1/4 speed when it was not quite right to begin with only makes it worse. We've all had quick engagements where we can't believe we survived, and vice versa. Certainly there are good players and great players, and its hard sometimes to believe when someone plays beyond what you assumed their abilities were.

Its even harder to lose a game, much less a cb, when you think you are better. Just as in real life, sometimes people get lucky. When someone gets lucky over and over and over again, it gets suspicious. But I haven't seen that yet.

I think SL in general, and fridge in particular, are taking a lot of heat for very little wrong-doing. Fridge may have glitched, or may not. Probably not, right? He sure didn't do the thing we all advise...avoid laying in craters at all, and thereby eliminate all doubt... but he probably didnt use the glitch to his advantage. As far as cheating... I would never use that term unless the evidence was incontrovertible. It gets repeated endlessly, their name gets tainted for all time, and all of their clan mates with them. They have to leave and reinvent themselves as noobs.. I guess that's what all this 'character' business is getting at.

Can we agree that 'cheater' is an official term, only to be used by the BL powers-that-be? Of course not. There will always be name-calling of that sort. Problem is, you never know when you'll be the next lamb to the slaughter. You hope your friends will stick up for you, or that you've built a solid reputation that will stand up to the accusations. But you never know, do you? If you have any enemies out there, they'll jump on the bandwagon, for sure, the sweet taste of revenge in their mouths.

If you have doubts about someone, then just don't cb them. Check up on them in public rooms if you can, I guess. You don't need to make public proclamations. Just avoid them until your doubts are eased or confirmed. If you have a specific issue in a cb you lost, bring it up to the admins and leave it to them.

Sorry for the long post. I don't like reading them, and I don't like it when everyone puts in their two cents, whether they have something to say or not. I sometimes wonder if eliminating the post-counter would help with that....

glitching is where you can shoot and be seen, but not be shot.  fridge doesn't do this, HE TAKES COVER. if taking cover is going to be considered a glitch, i have to seriously question what this league is comming to...

as to weather or not fridge actually hacked or glitched, i believe that what happened here is that 8 simply wiffed on this kill.  if you follow the bullet impact marks, you find that out of 30 bullets, none hit the target.  i can see how 8 might think they did though, as a few hit the wall that were on target to hit fridge.


either way, i think this whole thing has been blown WAY out of proportion

exactly my thoughts.

*DAMN Elandrion

eh  Eight remember ur discussion?


lol  ;D

and btw i dont think laying down in a crater without using it to shoot enemy is a cheat btw
he was just using cover, could do same with a big rock or what ever

well  i trained lots with mp5 i still asking myself how Fridge can do this ?
its sure a great gun but ..........

14.   Cheating/glitching is not allowed, that is why it is called cheating. If you accidentally do so by stacking in barrels, walls, etc. You must tell others and commit suicide. If you cheat and gain an advantage (blue dooring on city street or disappearing on Road hill, etc.) your team loses the clanbattle at a score of 6 - 0. If multiple violations occur, you and your clan may be reprimanded. If you aren't sure what glitching is read this thread! Furthers you have the possibility to make cheat tests(see below).

Laying down in the center of the crater isn't glitching, so according to the above rule, it isn't cheating.  But when you start hugging the edge of a crater, you enter the glitching risk zone

By the way, thank you Jeb, Valdar, Soc, Brain and elandrion, for being reasonable here and bringing some sanity to the topic.

I'm sorry flies, where do you see it in the ghr recon rules stating that you are not allowed to lie down in a crater, do you know what that is called flies? TAKING COVER.

I AM SO SICK OF REPEATING THIS OVER AND OVER AND HAVING RETARTED PPL COME BACK AND NOT PAY ANY ATTENTION TO WHAT I SAID, SO PLEASE FOR ONCE LISTEN.

A glitch is when you put yourself in a position where you can see out and shoot out and kill somebody, while at the same time being invulnerable to their shooting.  This happens often when you lie on the edge of a slope prone looking over it.  This is why that the crater glitch exists, the slope and the edge at the lip, now, it is only glitching if you lie on that slope with your head sticking over the lip, but I lay down in the crater behind the lip, I am never in a glitching position.  LYING IN THE MIDDLE OF A CRATER IS NOT GLITCHING, YOU CAN NOT BE SHOT ONLY BECAUSE YOU CAN NOT BE SEEN, THAT IS CALLED TAKING COVER, AT THE SAME TIME YOU CAN'T SEE OUT OF IT SO WHERE DOES THIS GLITCH EXIST FLIES, PLZ SMARTEN UP.  

God, if you're going to call laying in the middle of a crater a glitch, you might as well say going inside a house a glitch, or going inside a tower or going inside anything where you have 360 degrees cover, that is the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard, going along that principle pretty soon the lower stance key will be banned from cb's and everybody will have to run around in circles to try and dodge bullets, because cover is apparantly cheating.

Thank you to all the people who are being rational.  To those who aren't, almost everyone who says its glitching have nothing to do with this.  It seems that people are out to give SL a bad name.  Fridge did not glitch, nor does he cheat.  As a clan leader I have been more than careful to watch every clan member, and NO SL MEMBER cheats! BL admins, please get this solved so that SL doesnt get a bad reputation.  C'mon guys.....taking cover isn't glitching.  Its always a good idea to not lie in a crater, but when you are taking fire you dont really have a choice unless it is glitch or die.  In this case, fridge could lie down without coming even close to glitching.  This has all been blown way out of proportion.

What proof do you have that we have that you don't?

What proof Crypt is there that i cheat or any sl member cheats, none, my screenshot disproves everything u guys have said, what a stupid question

i can say, what proof do you have thta bts members don't cheat?  i bet you can't prove it, but that's no reaosn to go make a MASSIVE post about it.

It wasnt a massive post fridge...

It was 2 posts in the problem box because we had a problem it got moved to here by 1 of the admins....

OMG WILL EVERYONE THATS NOT A BL ADMIN SHUT UP!!!!!
We would like a simple ruling by the BL Admins.

If they say no problems that they see, GREAT.
We would just like a ruling so this thread can be LOCK or DELETED.

I would also like to see a reply FROM THE BL ADMINS on the definition of a glitch regarding inclines and craters for Ghost Recon not Rogue Spear or Rainbow six(disappearing on Road hill).

EVERYONE ELSE PLEASE KEEP YOUR 2 CENTS!
We are not trying to start anything we just want a situation to be resolved.

Thank you....

Thank you fusion! i was only trying to defend my clan and clan members. :) :)

okay, here are my arguments in brief in one post, I'm sick of saying the same things over.

1.  There is no gitch in lying in the center of a crater, you can be shot if seen, it's only glitching when u crawl up to the edge on your stomach, but being on your stomach in the middle grants no invincibility or ability to shoot somebody without being shot, you know that very well BTs.

2.  A tracer is not a bullet, just a graphical effect, the bullets travel to their destination instantly, the tracers travel across the map at a visible slow speed and don't even follow the same path as the bullets that they follow, they exist mearly as a graphical effect they do no damage, I can prove this very easily and extensively if anyone requests.

3.  BTs's argument is that I used an unvulnerable cheat to avoid being killed in the cb, stating that a tracer went right through my neck, well refer to argument 1. and look at this screenshot of the 3 shot burst in question, you see the tracer is about to go through my neck, but in the background you can see where the bullets have already hit the ground and missed me from the 3 shot burst, every bullet is accounted for in the screenshot, it's very clear they didn' hit me and that as stated in 1. the tracer is just a graphical effect as 3 shots have already collided with the ground from the burst, meanwhile the tracer is still in the air.  http://www.angelfire.com/mac2/darren/proof.jpg

4.  As anybody who knows me knows, including BTs, I know jack squat about computers or programming, and to make a cheat where you are invulnerable to bullets would be near impossible.  I do know that it would almost positively have to be serverside unless somehow i wrote some elaborate program which uploads the cheat to the server when I join, but as if I can and would do that.

5.  I would have to be a complete retard to use such a cheat in a cb, what would happen when a guy came up right behind me and dumped a clip into my back at close range, that would be the most easy to detect cheat ever and i'd be banned from the BattleLeague, banned from all clans, banned from all servers, oh yes, right, like I would pull that stunt.

6.  This isn't the first time BTs has thought somebody was using an invulnerable cheat, they thought vectorman while in gm not too long ago was using one on the same map, it's a recurring theme with them.

7.  The whole ordeal occured in a matter of seconds, I managed to get most of my body behind cover, and eight was rushing and on 3 shot burst which is known for its inaccuracy, his whole argument is based on one burst which i have fully and repetitively proved to have fully missed me.  Their whole argument hinges upon a single tracer which I have also proven repeatedly to be nothing more than a mere graphical effect, again, if you want extensive proof just request it from me.

In conclusion, BTs is only accusing me of using some sort of god mode cheat, not a glitch, they know there is no glitching present which is why they haven't said anything about it, and everything teeters upon a tracer which is irrelevant, it's quite clear, and if requested I can get into much more detail and bring out much more proof stating my point which can't be contradicted.

Ok, now that I have to reply to that one flies, it is extremely easy to tell what is glitching and what not, and every single crater can be used as a glitch.  And you can lie on a slope, it's very easy to tell what is glitching, it's all the same glitch and it's very simple, and some people despite so much experience have been unable to grasp the concept, so I will play the role of kindergarden teacher so gather round class.

If you have a slope, and this slope is not rounded at the top, it has an edge at the top, and you crawl up to it on your stomach so that your body is flat against the slope and your shoulders are at the edge of it so just your head is exposed over that edge then you can see over that edge and you can shoot from it and you can kill from it, but when people shoot you, it will be as if they are just shooting the ground, they can't kill you, you're invincible from any shots that come from infront of you and from around the same height level as you or below you, then you can only be killed from behind or from shooting down on them.  This happens on a crater for example because it is surrounded by one big slope with a sharp edge, so when a person goes on their stomach, crawls up the side of it and sticks their head over the edge of the crater, they are invincible, it is so incredibly easy to determine, so you just make sure that when u do look over those edges you do it in crouch mode, or you do it back from the edge, but lying in the middle of a crater obviously has no glitch as you are not up the side of the crater with your stomach on the slope and your head over the edge, and in my case that is what i was doing, don't believe me, go lie in the middle of a crater and try it, then try it by sliding up to the edge and sticking your head over the edge in the lying down position and having somebody shoot your from a level plane, so you see, glitching of that sort is very very very very very very very ridiculously easy to identify, if they have sliden up on their stomach right ot the edge and stuck their head over and shot out of it, they were glitching, if they didn't, then they weren't glitching, not very hard to grasp.

NEXT WEEK WE MOVE ON TO DRAWING OVALS!!! YAY!!!!

Fridge .. you should go and read my posts.
If I were you, I would let the BL Admins make a ruling and let it go.
Ok? This is what we will do. So just save your lectures.

It just frustrates me fusion because if you look at the screenshot there's no question, and yet you guys still pursue it with nothing behind you.

After going over the replay many times (i'm sorry this post took so long) i must say that i find nothing wrong with fridges actions.  Yes he used a crater for cover, but he didnt glitch, he was moving up and down, not hanging on the edge getting set for a shot.  And as far as this so called cheat, i think the SS says it all.  I believe it was just a lagged point a view that made it look like something else.  SL will keep their win over BTs.

Fridge,

  just out of curiousity (not related to accusations) I will take you up on the 100% proof you have that tracers aren't bullets.  Open a room on GR for us bro--itll be fun--I can't wait to learn about the non-lethal-tracers!

Will do sturm, I will make you a believer, hallelujah!

:-P....good cb guys. hopefully many more to come.  :D

Actually normally Sturm and I dont ever see eye to eye, but I feel in this case I have to agree with him.  If you look at the script written for the gun, you can see that for the OICW, specifically every 3rd round is made a tracer.  Now we all know that in REAL LIFE, tracers are dummy rounds to be used for accuracy purposes.  Originally used for airplanes in WW II they were used to pinpoint where there fire was taking the bullets.  
 
The problem is in Ghost recon that tracer is just a masked bullet.  Therefore the tracer in Ghost Recon can kill a target.  I am sure many of us have been in games where we have seen that happen, but it is well known, especially to those who rewrite games for the Mac that originally, in the game every third shot is considered a tracer.  Now if you want to test that theory, all you have to do is make it every one shot is a tracer and try and kill someone.  I am almost positive that he will die.  Anyway, try it and see what happens.  I am almost positive that you will find out that the tracer round WILL in fact kill the proposed target.  

Remember, this is a game, not the real thing, so there are things that arent the same as the real deal.  So to awnser Sturm's question I have to completely agree with him in saying that a tracer round CAN kill a target in Ghost recon.

+MOD+Saberian

yeah totaly, if a tracer bullet hits you, your gone... so that fact is out of the question. I've been killed on numerous occasions by the "non-leathal" tracers. ::)


+MOD+ Kuza:.

Okay, first off, flies, you obviously have no clue what so ever you are talking about when it comes to glitching, you have no clue what a glitch is and your posts are extremely aggrivating to read BECAUSE YOU DON'T PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT I HAVE SAID ABOUT 10 TIMES OVER ABOUT WHAT A GLITCH IS, if you have no idea what you are tlaking about as you clearly don't, then don't make arguments.  If you ever wish to learn what glitches are read my previous posts.

To Kuza and Saberian, you are also both wrong in this issue, yes a tracer is set to go off every 3rd shot, however the tracer which you see in the air is not the actually bullet being shot from your OICW, the bullets are instant, they hit immediately in ghr, the tracers move at a visible speed, they're just graphical effects to accompany the shots which do nothing, the actual bullets do the killing not the tracer, I can extensively prove both this fact along with the fact that the tracers also NEVER in ghr hit the same spot as the bullet they are supposed to be shadowing, if you ever want proof ask me in ghr and I will show you.

Aaaah, I hate to admit it but he is right.  I just did the testing for it by changing the rate of tracers to single and I did photo some good shots while I was on a night map.  It seemed to be the best way to record a tracer shot.  He is correct, so i do stand corrected on that point.  The tracer is just a visible flare that goes with the bullet on every third shot.  As a matter of fact, the flare isnt even that accurate sad to say.  But nevertheless Fridge on this point is correct.  All you have to do to test that is to tape a round of GR and watch the replay in slow motion.  There you will see the flare which does travel at a slower speed go towards the target but does not actually count as a bullet.  So instead of masking the bullet all it does is just add a flare to the bullet.  The bullet itself is still a seperate entity in the game.  So therefore, again, it isnt like the REAL DEAL, but the tracer itself isnt a bullet either by those means.

+MOD+Saberian

Flies, i have never heard about not being able to lay down in a crater.  Sorry you feel so bad about this whole thing, but i know for a fact that mauti has seen other cb replays with people laying down in craters and has not ruled it glitching.  I've asked around to some old schoolers that may know about it, and they have never heard of this either.  I feel bad posting this to you, knowing that you've played your tactics based on these rules, but laying down in a crater is a must for battelfield and night battle.  If your looking to ban craters, we might as well ban these maps.  I'll post this in the admin section for mauti to read flies, cause he's not going to wanna read this huge crazy thread.  But i think since no one else has heard of this "no laying in craters rule" we need to spell it out in the rules.

On a personal note, i dont think we need to ban craters since we have the power of replays and SS's.  Before i remember people never knew how to view the other teams in a replay, now we do and can see if and when a player does in fact glitch or not.

Taking the DFA-MOD cb as an example... I still contest the claim that the DFA member was not under fire when the glitching occured... he most definatly was, it was me firing, and trying to take a damn SS at the same time! ;)

Why is it that there seem to be so many issues involving SL~ v ...........

So form now on whenever you see someone in a crater you do not may clal hima  glitcher but first need to watch the replay and see if he glitched or not
last season long discussion were made now again but now they want the exact points on the map.
I feel the same as flies as I also thought laying down in a crater was forbidden.
If you read rules there is alink to this thread http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=3784 (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=3784)
where it says:

"This is a MUST-READ for all! Thx for the tip Valdar.

The most usefull tip I read about glitching on GhR:

Don't lay down on ANY incline!
Instead just move back a little and kneel (and pop up quickly to look/shoot over the edge). Don't put yourself in a situation where it may be a glitch. Kneel and there is nothing to worry about."


Well a link in rules to this thread and they say that its better to avoid laying down in craters to AVOID DISCUSSIONS LIKE THIS!!!!!!

Looks obvious for me now

Attention the cb has been changed to a forfeit win for BTs!

I backed up and agreed with Dr. No's decision about the tracer discussion, which was the original reason why this thread was started,  and I always thought that's what BTs contested but Flies contacted me to watch for the crater action and there I give you all right who said that Fridge is using(taking advantage) of the crater glitch during the shootout with Eight.

As a consequence BTs gets a  6-0 win over SL. The Ladders have already been updated.

Bye,

Mauti

With all due respect Mauti, I'm a little concerned on the pattern of your ruling.

Fridge's glitch looks like another case of just being in the heat of the battle, and being unintentional.  He lays down, he's crouches, he lays down, he crouches.  Personally, under the situation, I don't think he had the time to conciously think out, "I can glitch right now, and be okay."

So my question is why is this not another case of just replaying the match in question.  Now it's a full blown forfiet.  How do you determine which is a replay of the match, and which is a forfiet?

mauti, normally you're pretty good about decisions like this, but this time i have to ask what the hell you are thinking.

i just watched the replay 3 more times and i still fail to see how fridge is glitching. he cant even SEE 8 until he assumes a kneeling position, in which case YOU CAN'T GLITCH. the only thing fridge takes advantage of is the terrain which created a blind spot in 8's field of fire. are you honestly calling taking the only available shelter a glitch? does this mean by the same token that if i hide behind a rock to take cover from fire  i am using a glitch as well? does this make going into houses glitching and thus grounds to forfeit a cb?

the facts are simple, when fridge hits the dirt, 8 cant see him, and he can't see 8. no significant shooting (by witch i mean have a reasonable hope of hitting a target, firing into walls doesnt count) occurs until fridge assumes a kneeling position. fridge or 8 simply NEVER hit their intended targets. if you let this decision stand, you are effectively reducing the BL to quake with 1 shot kill machine guns.  

i beg you to reconsider this decision mauti because if you don't, you will destroy the BL as we know it

BS!...what do you think the craters are for?...COVER! the decision sucks. yes i saw the replay and yes i play ghr          (just not on my ibook). obviously this post has nothing to do with me or the clan i'm in. but a decision like this with so many points involved may affect all clans that are on the ghr ladder in the end. please reconsider mauti or erase the cb and make them replay with the same members.

mauti,


   As a leader of BTs I have to strongly disagree with this decision. I would rather that the entire CB be removed, and replayed with the SAME members and then posted as original. I can't really see that glitching in the heat of the situation can be called true GLITCHING as I'm very confident that fridge especially (being a former member of BTs, and seeing our rule book and reading about what glitches are and where they are) would possibly do it purposefully. If there is a truly difficult time to see what the truthfulness of the scenario is, then I suggest a complete NIXING of the CB.
Mauti, I know you are a reasonable guy... please honor my request, as I know that entire BTs_ is behind what I'm saying, and I believe you should be too.

   BTs_SignTist

The only thing i say about the glitching... is that he did run towards the smoke gets shot at, he then runs back to the crater instead of away from where he was being fired upon.

8, i would guess that he was just looking for somewhere to run as opposed to running at the fire directly.  once he realized the he was running at the fire, it was probably too late in his mind to do anything else

Mauti...look at the screen shot!  Tracers aren't actual bullets, and we will be more than happy to prove it to you.  Also, Fridge never glitched!  He used the crater for cover which is  a legal action.   He never get to the point where he is lying over the edge and shoots someone but cant be shot!  Please re-review the replay.

Yes, we would much rather replay the whole cb, then be stuck with a 6-0 loss.  Both BTs_ and SL~ have agreed to change the rule, as we both believe it's in the best of both our interests to replay it.  So mauti, could you please approve this, as we would like to get this over as soon as possible.

I think I must be in a bad movie - or maybe a nightmare. First all complain that Fridge is glitching and suddenly even the guys that have started this thread defend him. This can't be true, can it? Why do you have started then this issue!?

I know that tracers are something different and I also said that in this case I gave Fridge completly right that he didn't do something wrong.

However after watching the replay he was shooting while proning(at the start of the shootout) and second at least on my mac eight shoot at him while he was proning and couldn't kill him there due the glitch. As a consequence I followed the rule that glitching will be counted as forfeit win for the other clan 6-0.


I go to bed all answers to your new questions and opinions tomorrow.

Mauti

This looks like a perfect lesson for all cb-ing clans:

Do NOT, I repeat, do NOT lay down in craters or on slopes. It will save you a lot of discussions and overheated threads.

Dutchman

actually mauti, he couldn't hit me because he missed me and he was sidestepping and using 3 shot burst, and the lying prone in a crater only applies when you have crawled up the edge of a crater, when you're in the depts on the crater like me, that is not glitching, and my shooting at the start of the fight was just to scare eight to cover, i was shooting the pothole walls.  Also not everybody was accusing me of glitching, i was being accused of cheating by using god mode, only flies was calling it glitching and it isn't even his issue

It's all our issues fridge...

first off, files brought up the whole thing about fridge 'crater glitching' (which , for the record, if you can see their shoulders or any part of the body lower than that, you are just as killable as any other time)

secondly, 3 shot burst with an oicw with out a grenade launcher is very inaccurate, and thus likely to miss much more than single shot

third, the reason fridge did not die when 8 shot at him is the same reason that 8 didnt die when fridge shot at him THEY NEVER HIT WITH ANY ACTUAL BULLETS! tracers are a much slower effect that does not indicate the actual position of the bullet.
are we going to start accusing everyone of glitching  due to the inaccuracies of the weapons involved in the game? that is what you just handed BTs a 6-0 win for, because the oicw is not 100% accurate

finally, BTs is now defending fridge, not because this is is a bad dream a nightmare or a bad movie,but because they realize that you made a really bad call here mauti

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!

Great game guys, 90 replies on if someone glitched...what fuckin BS.
Just think, you wasted about 24 hours of your life reading and replying to this dumbass thread. I read the last page to see wtf this was about and I had to laugh. Replays...lol...wtf is this, Monday Night  Football? Once the ref makes the call after viewing the replay it's final, both teams can't continue to bitch. Mauti, you should have just made your decision, locked the thread and been done with it.

Still lmao.....cya when RvS hits.....

Oi hustler dont be mad cause you play a game without outdated specs such as RS with no replays...

lol eight...so true.  If my clan members agree to re-cb that is up to them, but I still defend Fridge that he didnt giitch or cheat, and Mauti should review the replay again.

well um i watched the replay
fridge use to much craters..........

can bring only troubles
he shoots peeps from craters, he takes tea in craters etc

he moves in all CRATERS all the way

thats ok to hide in if u r under fire or set a sensor in but in this replay i c a crater addict ;D

i

hustler, why do you even read the damn bl forums? there is no battles for the rogue spear ladder.

No no, here is a better rule:

Do NOT cb clans that won't admit they lost. BTs are hella good but this is sad. It really is.

As far as I know, EVERY game that BTs lost has been reported. Am I wrong? I think BTs were aiming for a zero loss season and get really pissed everytime someone makes it further away. I really wub the BTs guys for their skills but this really is pathetic. Stuff like this is unworthy major clans like BTs.

Be a good winner or at least, hide your sore losing.

BTs: Do what other clans do... say "Shit Happens".

Yes your wrong... we didnt complain when ! beat us.... they did it fair an very clean... dont use glitches and no problems...

Thank You Mauti for Making a ruling....

The ruling has been made Admins PLEASE LOCK!!

Mauti is trying to be constant with is past rulings as Flies has pointed out.

As for Acri.... Im sry you feel that way, but We dont want to lose because of cheats or glitches. We have no problem losing fair n square. I posted this because there was thought of cheating, does Fridge cheat? Well, according to most people that posted no. Does he glitch, well according to the admin(the head man) Yes he did, on purpose or not, a ruling was made that he glitched. Now, I hope people will get on with the season. And dont use glitches/cheats.

Alright, here is my last answer about this topic:

as Eight said he was searching cover in the crater although the chance to be hit there is really low. Second  he was firing in(while going in) prone position. (Fridge also fired kneeing out of the crater which is ok at the moment.)

However since BTs now suddenly defends SL(why was this topic then started?) I can only offer to nullify the game or that you replay this game and then may finish the cb until you have a winner according to the BL GR TEam ladder rules.

Bye,

Mauti

In that case, we will be replaying the cb!

well i understand the Flies' trauma
we al said ok not lay down in craters (ok its a bit extrem) in previous seasons
when u c fridge he uses ALL craters on the map , a bit extrem too