*DAMN R6 Forum

I have some probs concerning cb "A" vs EUR.

Mauti - I post you some replays, in the hope you can help me.

Best regards
[EUR] Flies

Can we have link for these replays Flies if u dont mind to give us a good movie to watch :D

Sure send me them or post a link and explain what I should see or where I should look at.

Bye,

Mauti

Now you've gotten me curious Flies.....very curious.   What could these  replays reveal? -- Stay Tuned.....

            BTs_STuRM :-X

We would be happy to address any questions or concerns to this cb with [EUR].


Sincerely,

Eric
[a] H u m a n

Well I have seen these replays and was amazed Moley could shot an enemy with one shot when he couldn't see them.

I did a few tests with Flies today.

On Ghost Town you can see Flies position from the hill when looking throw the side of your screen but shooting it with a sniper rifle with one shot is just not real.

Then Battlefield. There is no doubt in my mind that that has to be cheating even looking throw the side of my screen I could only see half way. But again Moley fires one shot and the enemy is dead.

Ross / ViRuS

Update: Just want to mention this is my opinion and not ViRuS's.

Human I sent you an email about this issue. At the moment I won't post much here about this issue I want to hear your opinion first.

Bye,

Mauti

I only saw the "Battlefield" replay and the behaviour of the sniper when i moved around their position in a long arc is more than clear.

And i also suggest to check the "Vilnius" map and the circumstances around my kill. The attempt to take me out there was a decision of suicide... :o under normal conditions.  

    Unreal,  i would love to see these replays if you guys still have them.  Plz let me know cause I have always wondered about that issue of a distance mod, if there is such a thing.  
    Another thing I did not understand about [a] is that they can start cbing a week before the end of the season.  Hmmm.

+MOD+Saberian

Alright the player in question is currently suspended and Human speaks with him about this issue.

He will contact me later tonight about the outcome. Then my final decision will be posted.

That's it for the moment.

Mauti

i gotta see this, to get away from all that whopadeedoda shit about me and not cheating, i would love to see a cheater get busted especially one that beat us before that, which i think that match should be cancelled or forfeit for them 6-0.

the issue of cheating always bring up the same problems. If they cheated do their past matchs count or do the matchs that the player invovled with count?

do you not say somewhere that a clan is repsonsible for their members?

as far as i know [a] haven't cb'd c| this season so its not really my place to worry about these things but the integrity of the BL is really what i look out for.

interresting....

Yea It seams funny that [A] just started CBing and they seem to have beat most of the clans they have recently CBed............. Including the toped ranked clans.....  makes you wonder.

Moley Lynx has stated to me that he didn't cheat.   I also cannot get
information other than the new higher end graphic cards and adjusting
settings in graphics settings in Ghost Recon make this possible.  There is
more to this such as lateral view area, I will not go on with it.   He will
not provide me with any visible evidence of this possibility.

I have banned Moley Lynx from [a] clan and requested that all of the cb with
[a] Moley Lynx be removed, all won cb where Moley Lynx participated further
he will be banned from the BL for at least the rest of the season.

[a] Clan will respond to the clans that we have cbed and won with a apology
that we are not sure that it happened in previous cb but if it has we
apologize and have banned the Moley Lynx from [a] and been removed from the
ladder for that cb, and we request your points should be restored.

[a] Clan apologizes for the issues that this has caused *DAMN, and the other
clans that we have battled with [a] Moley Lynx.


[a] Clan stands behind its members and would with the proper evidence refute
these acusations.  As evidence could not be provided.  [a] Clan has taken
the responsibility to punish the clan members for misdeeds.  [a] Clan has
also taken the responsibility for this post, and to agree that all cbs with
Moley lynx to be removed and that points be returned.

[a] Clan does not believe in cheating, and that cheating in any form is
wrong, and takes proper measures in preventing cheating.

Thank you.

Sincerely,

Eric
[a] H u m a n

P.S. - Please don't let the acts of one member spoil your respect for the
rest.

Well put Human.

The misterious movie !
http://fvo.free.fr/a-4 pause.rpf.sit

copy/paste link


 ;D

To check the official, uncensored and free replay check our site here:

www.EUR-Clan.com

You will find the subject in the "news" section. Headline from 20.06.2003.

Red Dust

I would love to see a screenshot from his computer on battlefield.

OK I know this is somewhat off topic (but not really), but isn't there a special word for what Red Dust does in those craters for most of the game?  I respect and love Red and Flies and EUR, but watch the replay through Red Dust and use the F1 key to change camera angles.  Hmmmmmm,

                BTs_STuRM

                    :-[

Can someone send me this mod that everyone is talkin about?  I gotta see this.....
 
                   BTs_STuRM :-[

He doesn't need an alien radar Flies. Look at the attached screenshot I sent you with the replay: it isn't only the fog who was removed he also has increased the render distance so he can see over the whole map!

Bye,

Mauti

Hi Mauti and the rest here.

As the most senior member of [a] Clan currently notified about what happened in the cb between [a] and [EUR], let me just express my regrets over this incident.

[a] moley lynx was well aware of our clan's opinion on the use of mods and glitches in CB. In actual fact, [a] clan has always emphasised that we play for the fun of playing, not for the points or presitge of climbing the Battle Ladder, which is why we are not regular CB'ers.

As [a] Human has stated, moley lynx is no longer a member of the [a] clan, and I fully agree and endorse  the steps he has taken on this matter.

I will contact the other senior clan members as soon as possible to inform them about this incident.

Best Regards,

[a] wolf

    Again i seem to put my foot in my mouth and apologize to [a] clan for making it sound like they cheat which I am sure they dont except for moley.  In either aspect, when i wrote that from before I was just stating what I would have thought if I was in [EUR]'s position.  I am a hardass when it comes to that kinda stuff and sometimes I dont realise when i post something that it might offend the other members of [a] that dont cheat.  So my bad for saying that.  That was literally not my intention.  Thanks [a] H U M A N for pointing that important aspect out to me.  Much appreciated.  that was a very honerable thing you did by confronting me about it.

I just have one thing to ask Mauti ???
according to the rules that you have posted

                    "18 #  Cheating/glitching is not allowed, that is why it is called cheating. If you accidentally do so by stacking in barrels, walls, etc. You must tell others and commit suicide. If you cheat and gain an advantage (blue dooring on city street or disappearing on Road hill, etc.) your team loses the clanbattle at a score of 6 - 0. If multiple violations occur, you and your clan may be reprimanded. If you aren't sure what glitching is read this thread! Furthers you have the possibility to make cheat tests(see below)."

The cb's that he participated in should be counted as a 6-0 loss for [A]. Am I right or are we ignoring the BL rules? I respect [A] for the actions they have taken to resolve this problem, but rules are rules. ???
:( The CB's were done and I don't want [A] to think that I feel that they are all cheeting b/c I have never had a problem w/ any of the guys, but the cb's were done and now instead of saying they just didn't happen we should follow the rules that the BL has in effect and let it be a warning to any player that cheats in any clan that this will happen to them too. >:(

Well since we don't know for 100% if  Moley already used the cheats in the previous games I only have nullified the games. This "hurts" [a] enough, if I would give them forfeit loses it would only change their stats but not skillpoints because you can't come below 10, if they would have other wins without Moley my decision would maybe different. I could give EUR a win because there it is proved but we solved this issue this way.

Bye,

Mauti

If moley cheated, then he's a bastard

you dont need 2 cheat to beat Flies!    ;)

only kidding, max respect, u know it

Ok, here is my (late) but public question related to this issue, based on the question posted on the e?e Clan forum.

The fact: Ghost Recon's server, game, weapons and environment settings are all downloaded from the host in a muliplayer game before the games start. That's why "waiting for other players" can take long sometimes. The fog and render distance are stored in a ".env" text file, located inside the Maps folder of a Mission pack. These values can be altered to eliminate fog display, but if these ".env" settings and also the radar (Thread Indicator) settings are sent to all players from the host computer before the game starts, how can one joined player alone have different settings in a muliplayer game?

Now the question is, how did a person cheat on these "server side" settings? And how can it be quickly proven in a solid way if a player is suspected of cheating? It is the question of proof that keeps me bussy. Because i have been once falsly accused of using this cheat by an observer.

In a chat with Flies about one of his replays involving "Moley Lynx" he said: "yeah - he modded some stuff on his pc - then he was able to lift-off fog". This means:

A. it was alterd post download
B. not downloaded from the host correctly
C. the fog was skipped on Open-GL (3D engine) level.

Is it technically possible for a programmer to alter the Open-GL instructions? I would geuss it is hard but possible.

Why do I question this: Well if I look at the "Moley Lynx" sniper action on the earlier posted replay: "A-4 Paused" (Battlefield) using a local "NO FOG" and "FULL RENDER DISTANCE" version of the Battlefield map I do see the first two enemies that were killed from Moley's point of view. I see even more enemies in the crosshairs that he didn't shoot. Maybe he faked not seeing them to avoid any suspects, or he still must have had some kind of fog.

This is just a question. I'm not implicating Moley did not cheat (it is obious something is not right there), but I am searching for a way to identify the true reasons why he was able to over-rule server side (pre-game downloaded) settings, if that is not the case, how the hell did he get a different visual result than we get back from that replay. The test with the replay is not a solid proof of cheating, asking the accused for mid-game screenshots might help.

If you want to test my test yourself use the fogless battlefield and run the replay again. The "NO FOG" version of the battlefield.env file is now also posted on the e?e forum: http://eoe-playground.net/blabla/viewforum.php?f=5

Cheers,
GiaN

It is me again, digging in old dirt.

We know from this forum the accused player was banned as a result, so we also know for sure it was a case of using a severe cheat beyond early detection. Why was there never any official statement posted by the cheating player?

Fill me in on the technical weaknesses in the game that allowed this to happen. I think many other players (after reading this topic) might think this is now a common used cheat, I personaly think it is not as common as suspected. Still more info would allow us (e?e) to identify any future cases quicker.

Contact me on the e?e forum with any helping details.
http://eoe-playground.net/blabla/viewtopic.php?t=74

GiaN

---

Our last two posts crossed.

>I suggest you ask him yourself.
We are trying.

>Equally simple is to test the replay.

We agree on that... but still hope for more solid ways to investigate it:)

>I think some ppl on GR have the chats with Moley stored.

I wish to get response from those people, even if it is an old case.

>Shouldnt we stop making links to more manipulated maps now ?
>No matter how honourable the idea behind giving links may be

We disagree on this. If a host uses a "NO FOG" map and normally all players get to see it like that it is NOT a cheat. Games on some altered maps are just good a reason to develop new strategies and allow us to enjoy the game even longer. I must say I am amazed how nice the Battlefield is with a bit less fog. Also the Airbase map in daylight is a new experience. Team play on such maps is not spoiling the fun at all.

(this was my last comment here)

GiaN

gain, its entirely possible to do, and not by touching the openGL. But just by replacing a few characters in another file. Since ghr uses a document based system, its possible to edit a few lines, and point it to a different file, which then works in multiplayer.
 I'm not gonna give instructions, simply because the people who want to cheat, don't need to know.

Ghost recon is an incredibly flawed game as far as programer errors, and a general lack of effort put into the game.

I'm not a programming wiz kid but from your last explantion I now understand how. I've played about with the .env files on creekbed trying to increase the fog so u litterally knock into your enemy.

Maybe the less said about how and what the better.