*DAMN R6 Forum

We had a CB with |DFA| about an hour ago. At the start of the game, we talked of a cheat test but decided to not do the test immediately. However, we asked if we could reserve the right to a cheat test later and they consented. It was tied 1-1 and Shasta was complaining about his 'x' button not working. He asked to leave, and though we were somewhat skeptical we allowed it. After the next two games, both of them wins by |DFA|, we were concerned about cheating. We asked for a cheat test, which we proceeded to do without any problems. |DFA| went on to win by a score of 4-2-1. After the game, both Alaric and I sent our emails to SAR. We received an email from SAR, however at this moment we have not received anything from Shasta. As you can see from the BL Drop Box thread, the CB ended around 6:26 PST. It is currently 7:03 PST.

Given that Shasta failed to email us the screenshots, we have reason to believe that he was cheating. Under BL rules, he has 5 minutes to send us the email. We have given him ample time. We demand that the CB be ruled a forfeit on account of the actions of Shasta.

i dont know what happened.. shasta told me he was sent the ss's.
btw, he can still send them. whats the big deal.
i sent mine.. and i hd that problem with HE||. i couldnt lay down with the "x" button either.
and how do we know u never got it? maybe u are lying? He told me he sent them.
also....when shasta left did he not come back after 1 second?
i dont see how its a forfeit. Maybe he typoed when he wrote down the email adress. He should still have tim eto send them to you.

i sent those god damn pictures, i did it now, but i honestly don't see why i should be punished for someithng i didn't do, i sent them, my email said i did, WHAT THE FUCK ELSE DO YOU WANT ME TO DO??!!

i dunno if im too late but here are links, i put them on our web directory....

copy and paste the text of these links, do not click the link itself...

http://www34.brinkster.com/dfaghr/Screen%20Shots/Snapshot%2010.jpg (http://www34.brinkster.com/dfaghr/Screen%20Shots/Snapshot%2010.jpg)

http://www34.brinkster.com/dfaghr/Screen%20Shots/Snapshot%2011.jpg (http://www34.brinkster.com/dfaghr/Screen%20Shots/Snapshot%2011.jpg)

I get a broken link.

1 hour 55 mins too late according to the rules.

see what you meanies don't understand is that ace left without confirming that my ss were good, and i did send them, it just didn't make the server, and as you see here i clearly did not cheat, so if i get punished for ace leaving and leaveing me clueless as to if it arrived or not, then you people can just screw off.


sorry i edited this when i realized what i said, i took out the bad words.... :)

Hi,

alright guys first off rules are there to be followed and not to be ignored for 1hour and 50mins. This is simply to prevent that you don't have time to modify your pics.

The MP email server log doesn't show that you have tried to send your email earlier further when you tried it a second time the ss was immediatley received.

Shasta could you please send me your screenshots in the original resolution to damnr6@planetrainbowsix.com. Thanks. Further you could do a screenshot of your email outgoing messages. I would like to see on ONE screenshot a list of all sent messages from your first try until your last one that MP received. You say it was sent through so your mail will be appear on this list.

MP5 doesn't have to wait by rules but I gonna add this so you get an immediate confirmation if the other team received the screenshots.

That's it for the moment.

Bye,

Mauti

Hmm, I thought that I put this in the Problem thread. Mods, mind leaving a msg if you fork so I don't lose my mind. ;)

Anyways, back to the point. There are two issues: timeliness of sending the screenshots and the integrity of the screenshots. Unfortunately for Shasta, he has failed at both

We finally received the screenshots at 8:31 PST. In fact, we received two emails. One is ostensibly dated by the sender at 6:21 PST, while the other seems to be accurately dated by the sender at 8:30 PST. However, according to the mail server, the first sender dating is a forgery. And just in case you are wondering, it took 4 minutes on average to send a mail from Hotmail (once of the more notoriously slow servers) to Macclans.

However, the more pressing matter is that the screenshots that he sent were doctored. We were looking at the screenshots of all 4 players and a high-res example from Bucc (as both Alaric and I can't handle high-res on our machines), and it became painfully obvious that his screens looked out of the ordinary. For example, his night vision is extremely choppy around the edges, not smooth like in a normal setup. Also, the font is a blurred attempt to copy the normal in-game font. After doing some research, we confirmed that these have in fact been doctored by Photoshop.

Mauti, I urge you to declare this CB a forfeit on account on Shasta's misdeeds. He has broken multiple Battle League rules in an attempt to disguise his actions.

Of course they have been edited because nobody plays that grainy. To change resolutions and file size you need to edit them with a tool like photoshop.

Well sometimes mails need a long time to get through(mail server of his isp could be overloaded) so what makes you think that the first mail date is a fake beside the bizarre facts.

However I would like to see the original unmodified screenshots and email log at his side.

BYe,

Mauti

well i didn't know i couldn't reduce the quality, my stupid email doesn't like bigger files, i don't see that shit anywhere in the rules, and it hasn't caused a problem so far. i don't know how i can get the files back but it saved over the original copy, (since i didn't think it was wrong), i am out of DFA now, but i wanna save them grief by trying a different solution.

i can however get a screen shot saying that i sent the email.

Yep pls send me the email chatlog ss.

Bye,

Mauti

If Shasta is using  stuffs like Hotmail, caramal etc
those free mail services sux and taaaake time to send a damm ss, specially with an file enclosed with it
and i will understand that he doesnt want that a professional email used for gaming shit

Mauti i think u should extend time to 5m ->15 m

also indicate that in rules using a ftp is allowed to share cheat screenshoots ? or a caracho serv what ever

mb it will be less messed up if by example clan leader put his team' SS on a ftp,server etc  (grab all SS from the cb in 1 shoot ?)


i think asking the leader or the guy in "charge" for a cb of each clan to collect ss of his own clan and then send it; will avoid  lost,forgot,lagged screen shots, full email box etc


Oh well just some ideas....

At first Some compression artifacts were aparent on the screenshot (the mozaic chunks around the edges, and the scraggly artifacts around the letters). However on furter inspection the mozaics don't  fit with the typical look. The JPG compression will strip as much color as posible from the image, without effecting the detail to heavely. Meaning that similar colors next to each other show up as blocks when zoomed in.  The problem with shasta's screenshot is that it looks like some grain was thrown in and it was compressed, because there is no distinction between the solid textures and the  detailed textures.  
 
This does not happen on a virgin high res GHR screenshot after a heavy compression. This only happens when noise is thrown into a image.

And about email headers, they are a relatively easy thing to fool. If anyone wants proof give me a name, email adress, and date and you'll send you a email that meets your requirements.
-jeb

Jeb I know that you can simply fake headers and times but how do you want to know that Shasta did so!?

I for myself have often experienced that emails got stuck at my isp's email server and were sent later. Well nevertheless I would like to see the ss from Shasta before I fell my decision.

Bye,

Mauti

well given that i emailed *DAMN with a screenshot of my screen(entourage) it is my sent folder, 2 to MP@macclans.com, and the other is a different cb, which is irrelavent in this case, and the fact that by 9:21 a doctored up user-put in text simply isn't possible, all i did was reduce the quality, i bet if it had made the server the first time like it should have, they would have believed me in the first place, and as i said before, ace didn't respond to me asking if i was ok on the cheat test, and im not waiting around all day to find out.

Thanks for the mail Shasta.

Jeb about headers and daters what you can't fake is the email source code. The email source code shows the times when the different isp mail server received the email! Please check the dates and times(whoever of you received the screenshots) and you know if Shasta really immediatley sent the mail or not and I can finally fell a decision.

Bye,

Mauti

Here is an example of a source code:

the only problem is that not all ISPs have such a complete mail log...

NO PROBLEM MAN, i wanna walk out of here knowing that i didn't leave DFA on a bad note. anyway, ill be looking for clans come next season!!

one more thing to add...

i use the highest quality resolution, and it runs fine on my computer, so why not use it, well the ss of in game come out to be about 1.5 mb each, and 3 mb to send in email takes more than 5 minutes, possibly 20-30, so i don't see why im punished for having a better computer than you.....heheh jk

and, all i did was save using the wrong thing, in a minute ill show you some images i just took of my nv and non nv, and i saved those the right way........

(images comin soon...)

Wow, Shasta seems to get a lot of bad breaks.....

Question I ask is.....were there any night games and did DFA win those?

lets see we did castle 2 times, training 2 times, ghost town 2 times, and river once, no night maps.

Shasta the nv mod helps remove fog...it helps on days maps, snipers...

Shasta, I also use very high res, and yes, the screen shots that GhR takes are 1.4MB each or so, but they got across country in 2 minutes with both images (from the .mac account to the mp account and from a canadian account to the mp accout).  Please don't be blaming the mail server, especially when I have the smtp logs that show what time each message reached the servers.

As for saving the wrong thing, you shouldn't be saving anything, just pressing f4.  

Another really funny thing is when I took screen shots (again, high res like you) and lowered the quality to take them down to 100kb (the size of your files) but kept them the large format like you did, they were still not pixilated like yours at all.  No artifacts, no blocks, text still legible and lines still meeting.  Why did yours look so bad?  Here, i'll put them all on a page to compare at http://www.macclans.com/shasta.html  

And Ghoul, full screen NV also eleminates Haze on day maps, and is great at letting you see people farther away.  It's great for maps like Castle and Ghost Town, just FYI.

bucc he used photoshop to "save for web" using jpg with a quality of 0 brings out the complaints that Ace described.

well i guess the only thing to do is wait for mauti's decision, if you see ace tell him im sorry, but for him to say i cheated and automatically rule out that i sent the email is unsportsmanlike, if you look at it from my perspective, i don't know exactly what i saved it as, all i know is my charter.net is screwy and doesn't like huge files, so i don't see how i can be punished.

and from MP's point of view, mine do look very choppy, but that isn't to say i saved mine differently than you, so i think this is a crisis that can only be resolved by a decision, hell, right now, i don't care, everyone thinks i cheat now, i hope you guys had a good time ruining my reputation.

I too did this cheat test thingy.... Using a 1.5 meg nv file... and yes i agree with nara, if you "save for web" and set the settings to 0 you'll get the same exact file as Shasta.

I'm not for either side I just wanted to contribute my own fndings...

did you not read my post on jpgs eight?
A high jpg compression will not make things as grainy as shasta's screenshot, the best word to describe jpg compression is "chunky." If a grain texture was put on top of a screenshot like that, then compressed heavly the same look happens since is more noise and shapes to compress.  Not to mention the fact that in his screenshot there is the charicteristic pixels of noise surounding a corner or edge which happens on a normal ghr screenshot thats highly compressed.

The reason its so suspicious is because we got the screenshot 2 hours late, it looks doctored, and shasta convienently deleted his original copies.

Just look at your email source please and post what you see.

That's all I need,

Thanks,

Mauti

well it saved over it, and mauti has a ss that you don't, and would clearly end this stupid arguement.

Shasta i advice u to put ur ss online on a web page next time so screw slow mail servers ( mail the ss' + upload it on a web page, also send u urself the mail at same time  when u mail the ss at the other clan, u ll should be fine then !)

Bucc...good point about daytime nv

Since MP fails to look at the email source code, which could prove when the emails were sent, I'll take Shasta's word that he sent the ss at the right time. Obviously they got stucked at some of the mail servers.

About the quality of the ss: there is nothing about it in the rules that you can't change file size(will be added now).

CB can be posted.

Mauti

Wait wait wait Mauti. We thought you were talking to shasta asking HIM to post his email source code. Sorry for the confusion. I'm at work right now so I don't have access to it but I'll see if I can find someone who can get it up ASAP.

I got the email outgoing messages log from Shasta but that can be faked so I would like to have seen the email source code where the different receiving times from each email server are shown.

Bye,

Mauti

well, if mine can be faked couldn't they fake it and say the server didn't log  it, meaning there was no email????

i remember bucc saying the logs show when both emails came onto the macclans servers 2hours later than they shoulda been. And you did not make it clear who needed to send the source, i'll tell bucc to send you all the necessaries.

i think you should just drop it MP, mauti already said it could be posted, so just stop this non sense.

Jeb, the completed(the sent) email source can only be viewed by the recipient so I thought it was clear.

Shasta all in all you are as long right until someone proves the contrary. Your screenshot is a good point to start with but the email source is the most objective proof and it needs only a few seconds to look at. So I was asking for it.

Bye,

Mauti

Alright finally got the email source code:


There you can clearly see that the remt22.cluster1.charter.net(Shasta's isp mail server) received the email at 23:30 and not 21:21. This indicates with a very high probability that Shasta's date header was manipulated by changing the comps time! As a consequence I give MP the forfeit win about DFA.

This is my final decision now.

Bye,

Mauti

grrrrrrrrrrr it was a server error man it happens.