*DAMN R6 Forum

Ok, the poll choices are mostly just to lighten the mood - I voted choice 4.  

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Buccaneer, I thought about what you have against me, and what I have against you.  Feel free to add.  These are just what I see.

1.  We both think the other is arrogant.
2.  I think you attack people directly too freely (i.e. cocksucker) - you think I moderate too heavily and unevenly.
3.  I like Bondo - you despise Bondo.
4.  We have different politics.
5.  Neither of us has ever admitted to the other that we were wrong.
6.  I feel like you are too condescending - you think I'm not at your level.


Now, what of this?  None of those things is remotely important.  Any and all are perceptions that could easily be changed at a moment's notice, if we were each willing to.  I propose, if you will debate with me as though I were your electronic equal - that there would be no problems any more, whatsoever.  That is, you stop calling me or people I know cocksuckers - I stop touching your posts at all.  Another moderator can handle any spam you might ever make.  I won't criticize your posting style any further (although I did drop that months ago).

We can just not debate over Bondo - I won't defend him if you won't berate his person.  No one needs to admit defeat, and we can enjoy our poltical differences.  We're both arrogant anyway, so there's really no problem with that.

All I really want is decent debate.  I don't want flamewars, name-calling, or bullshit from anyone.  I'm willing to admit that I haven't been as adept at preventing people from that, including myself.  If you're willing to accept that we've both been a part of the crap, I see no reason not to start from scratch.

I have a feeling you'll give me a reason, maybe that's on the lines of my not being as good a person as you because of something I said.  However, in that case this can just go on forever.

I've said repeatedly that I think you are intelligent and I enjoy your debate.  Here is my concession - I only ask that you give me the same consideration.

 None of the choices fit what I think.

Neither of you are bad forum posters, and it's impossible to judge wether or not someone is a bad human being in an online forum. While I do have my own views on who is a better forum poster, in an attempt to lighten the mood, I'll leave such opinions out of this.

Loudnotes: Good idea, and a good post. I think you leave Buccaneer no choice but to take what you've said into consideration.  

I voted just be friends because you all have to stop with the flame war!! (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/YaBBImages/ukliam2.gif)

congrats on opening another flamewar

I voted who cares, but I find it disheartening that so many people voted "Loudnotes is a bad mod/human being". I just wanted to tell loudnotes that I think he's true blue ;D.

Loudnotes, I appreciate that you are trying to bury the hatchet, but you just don't get me, no matter how much I try to explain myself.  I've already responded to your 6 points before, but you still don't have them right (as far as I'm concerned).  For instance:


I know we are both arrogant.  I admit it.  The part you don't get is when you start off calling me that, you are being hypocritical, because you are arrogant as well.  And that pisses me off.


Got this one butchered.  You connected two things.  1) I think you attack people as well, you just don't do it as openly as me, which I think is worse personally.  and 2) I think you moderate when you should post.  You shouldn't moderate things you have a personal stake in, even if it's protecting a friend.  These are two completely different issues and shouldn't be connected.  


Hey, you got one right, except for the fact that I don't hold liking Bondo against you.  


Very much so, but If this were a debate I'd argue that you don't actually have politics until you can vote.  But we have different political views, so I see what you mean.  But again, I have different political views then most of you here, at least most of the people that post often.  I don't have these problems with all of them.


Actually, I've posted in this forum where I've been wrong in the past.  It hasn't happened in a direct argument with you, but that doesn't change anything.  I think, if you want to be correct, this is something that pisses me off about Bondo much more then you.  Bondo will ignore any facts that prove him wrong.  Flat out.  Will avoid questions that show it.  So, I don't see #5 as being an issue between us.


This is something you will have to deal with.  In many ways, you aren't at my level.  I have what, 18 years more experience and learning then you?  I'm considered an expert within the PMI in many areas.  It is a fact, that there are many, many men out there that I'm not at their level in one thing or another.  Even here.  I can't program like Ace or Mauti or a few others, that's not my thing, I'm not at their level.  If any of them were to correct me on something they obviously know more about, then, unlike others, I don't argue.  A fine example of this, Bondo brings up that a video game says Mazda's are still Japanese, later that his "dad still thinks they are".  The fact that I worked for Mazda (oh, and to correct a previous post of yours, I never said Mazda of America, you did), that I have seen FORD stamped on their body and chassis designs going back for over 20 years, didn't seem to make a dent.  Or, better, when talking to Bondo about logic, since he stated I was only using one logic, and there were others (which he never provided a text for me to go read, hmm).  And, funny enough, I even pointed to web sites where you could look up the styles I was mentioning.  BTW, I also admitted to being wrong in that debate, when somebody corrected me on calling something MT vs MP.  So, what I'm saying here is, yes, in some ways you are not at my level, in other ways you are.  You need to deal with that, because it's a simple fact of life that everyone must deal with.  None of us are at Gordie Howe's level of hockey skill, not even at his age today.  

One other thing.  I also think you are very condescending as well.  You talk down from your "moral high-ground" very often in my opinion.  But I've said that before.

So, what of all this.  Well, more then anything it shows that either you haven't been paying attention, or you have your own views in analyzing me that don't allow you to pick up any new data or you simply don't care and want out, or you oversimplify a complicated situation.  None of this should be news to you, I've said it all to you before.  I'm actually amazed that you start a peace offering out with something that shows such a blatant disregard for what I've said in the past, making such wrong assumptions in the face of what I have openly said is my problems with you.

You really want to add to the list, no problem.

1) Moderating.
a) if you are going to moderate, you need a clear guideline about what is and isn't acceptable.
b) if you are going to moderate, you need to apply those rules equally.
c) if you are going to moderate, you have to do so with complete impartiality.
d) if you are going to moderate, you need to not be involved in the debate.  There are plenty of moderators that can do it if you are already involved.

2) Posting.
a) worst of all is your misquoting me.  I've asked you, explained to you and even told you off quite a few times about quoting me and changing the contents.  That is one of the rudest things in the forums you can do in my opinion.  
b) arrogance doesn't matter.  Over half the people here are arrogant.  
c) hypocrisy abounds.  I hate hypocrites.  I take it as a personal mission to point them out.  And I think you've been a hypocrite.  
d) I'm not a nice guy.  Never pretended to be.  You seem to think since I'm intelligent, I should be nice, but they are very different things.  I'm nice to my girlfriend.  I'm nice to my dog.  I'm not nice to someone pissing me off.
e) Respect.  This is the real heart of it.  This is really the issue between you and I.  You don't show any to me (I don't consider good manners respect, if that's what you are thinking) and I have none for you anymore.  

Respect really is the bottom line there.


That doesn't work for me.  First, as I said, those are different issues.  Second, you added yet another issue in there.  Since you know everyone here, you are asking me not to call anyone a cocksucker.  Sorry.  No play there.  And, even if you just were thinking Bondo, it's still a no go.

Second, the posting style went on for over a month though, and much for the same reason.  I listened to what you had to say, and I said no.  It got dragged on because you couldn't accept the first polite no I gave, or the next 100 not polite ones.  But it was brought up as an example of you being a hypocrite (personal attacks).  Age doesn't change that.

You want peace between us, it's easy:

If you intend to moderate for a more peaceful forum, look at my suggestions.  And use better judgment.  Don't say you are deleting a personal attack and leave others.  That just shows a bias.  If you can't resist that bias, don't moderate to that level at all.

Stop trying to get between me and Bondo.  That's 90% of the trouble that comes between us.  You trying to defend him.  

Don't misquote me anymore.  That's will continue to piss me off and start flame wars a raging, every-time.

You do those things and you'll find that I probably won't insult you at all.  I'll still insult Bondo, but that's between him and me, and you should leave it there.


Again, no deal on the first part.  You need to think about that.  You want peace with me, it's between us, you don't wrap others into this.

As for the second, I've always accepted that I've been part of the crap.  What you seem to have missed is that I'm not against the crap.  You are.  You are the one always calling for an end to it.  I am a part of it, don't mistake my acceptance of that as a desire to change it.  Frankly, I can have it either way, it doesn't matter that much to me.


Typhy, the real question is will he ever take what I give back into consideration.

Can't we just agree to disagree? If some heated debates pop up and get personal, so be it. Thus is the nature of a forum. Ideas are expessed, taken in, analyzed, and accepted or rejected by its members. Now let's get over it and back to the serious issues of spamming up the forum with meaningful twenty-page posts on why the human embryo shoudl be considered a part of a womans body, or why it should be considered a human life, or how Adobe got its name.

I'm not sure you realize, but by making your last two posts, you've done exactly what I wanted.  I just want our debates to be civil.  There area a number of things in your posts that I disagree with; some I think are outright wrong.  I'll get to those when I don't have class in 45 minutes.  But nevertheless, you didn't find it necessary to make this a flame war, as Jeb suggested.  However much respect you don't feel for me, you showed in it those last posts.

You're welcome to think of me whatever you want - I just ask that your posts are as even-handed as those were.

So - I'll address these things as soon as I'm able.  What I mostly am trying to say is that however badly I've gone about it, from the very beginning I've just been trying to make peace.  Between you and Bondo.  Between spammers and the forum.  Etc.  

One quick note though - I don't moderate in my own self-interest.  I try to moderate for the forum.  I'll maintain I've never deleted a post because I disagreed with it.  Rather, I've deleted one of yours that had no on-topic content. . .and those of others.  I moderate as best I can, but sometimes the sin of omission means I just simply haven't been reading that thread.

Incidentally, there haven't been 6 replies from people that hate me. . .it's always nice to know who voted.  Care to show yourselves?

I voted both are bad ;D Do whatever you want just dont insult each other:P Even if I insult people all the time.. but thats off topic ;D

Aww. I wub you, Loud. And Bucc, too. I voted for "Can't we all just get along?" Although, I would like to say one thing. Bucc, you said that Loud can't admit that he's arrogant, but if you read his post again, you'll notice that he says "We're both arrogant anyways, so there's no problem with that."
Just wanted to clear that up. I think this forum needs a flame thread...just to vent your frustration. Everyone gets a little pissed once in a while, especially when they think the other person is a complete moron who doesn't understand what you're trying to say. It happens to me all of the time. It's perfectly natural to get super-pissed at people every now and then, even for a person as mellow as me. 8)
Now, I think it's just wrong to say that Loudnotes is a bad moderator, or that Bucc is a bad poster. Nobody's perfect, and if someone makes a mistake once in a while, you can't hold it against them. So how about we all just clear the air, give everyone a second chance, then perform kinky, illicit, possibly illegeal acts on eachother with citrus fruits?

first off i said who cares, simply because i cant change the way you 2 think or post

secondly i'd like to say to loud that i do get the impression that he moderating towards his own ends occasionally. now, i'm not saying he is doing it blatantly or all the time.  but i know from personal experience how tempting it can be to just take somebody's thread and send it to the scrap heap just because they dont get it.

now, just so i'm not biased on this post, i think bucc needs to change too, namely  he needs to  lay off th insults a bit and maybe wait 3 or 4 more posts than normal before pulling them out. i  know how frustrating this forum can be in general, especially when  you feel like you are trying to argue quantum physics with a brick wall but you really need to ease up a bit there. rememer we arent all perfect. we cant be or else there would be no debate.

You just don't get it.  This is like beating my head against the wall.  Notice where I point out that Respect isn't the same as Manners.  The "tone" of my posts, for lack of a better term, is pretty much directly proportional to the attitude with which I feel for both the topic, and the poster.

This topic is half a repeat of old issues, and therefore, not that interesting.  Between that and your tone, not something to get worked up over.  Add to that the fact that my post was meant more for others to understand than you.  Now do you get it?

And if you interpret correctly what I've posted, here and in the past, you'll see that it's my normal state.  I'm even civil to Bondo when he's not being too much of a dumbass.  Go look if you don't believe me.  


You can ask, but, like I tried to explain, that doesn't make a difference.  


And how many ways can I say it.  I've told you this months ago, I've told you this lately.  YOU CAN'T FORCE PEACE BETWEEN ME AND BONDO.  Not only that, but you sure as hell can't do it by taking one side over the other.  Both in posts and moderation.  ie, holding one guys arms while the other is allowed to swing freely, just because he isn't as big and strong (mentally in this case), isn't keeping or making peace, it's taking a side.  Doesn't matter what your intentions are, your actions are taking a side.  Apply that with any group of posters here.  If both sides are taking swings, you can't jump into the middle and not push both sides back just as hard.  

And take sides is what you've done, both in posts and in moderation.  So you aren't keeping the peace, not at all.  You've fanned the flames of war.


That's pretty weak.  It's pretty weak because you even said my post had on topic content, although you considered it repeated, I didn't.  It's even more weak because after being pointed out, have you corrected your sins of omission?  Have you deleted the posts that Bondo made that were just personal attacks?  Nope.  You said because you agree with it ("it's true and not as bad as yours").  That's self interest.  Because agree or not, it's still what you said you were removing, a personal attack.  You give another weak excuse for not moderating Rapid.  Now that is self interest in the highest degree.  It's just too much work for you.  If you were doing it for the forums, you'd suck it up and deal with the work.  Then consider Bander coming in with his flames (didn't you say hi to him in those threads?).  So don't say you just haven't read them, you were in some of the threads yourself, and have had them pointed out.  So it seems to be either self interest or being stubborn, not sure which.

Actually wasn't me.  I, consistent with my posts, chose the who cares.  But, just like Bondo's poll, it should give you something to think about.


Mellow, it goes back to other conversations we've had as well.  Not just that one.  It's hard for some of you guys to follow when much of what I'm referring to with him was done in PM's a couple months ago.  And he said we each think the other is arrogant, which was the old covered ground.


Completely agree with ya.

Brian, I welcome your opinion, but in the case of the people I have lost respect for, I have to say I don't agree with ya.  I see no reason to hide or disguise contempt.    

Bucc, the lack of respect is the issue.  I think there's really no point rehashing all the old issues - we obviously don't agree on my moderating or your posting any more than we do over cars and politics.  
And yes, I say politics - people can have political theories and even attachments before they are able to express them with a vote.  There's a lot you can do that's just as if not more influential in politics than actually voting.


So, this issue of respect.  In this thread, my idea was this:  Since I still have no beef against your person, just some of your online actions - I figured we could just throw it all away.  Forget the bullshit - I accept that I've erred - YOU DO TOO.  That's not too much to ask.  

However,

You've made this into an issue of the person.  You've lost respect for me as an individual - and that's what I consider unacceptable.  

I think the basic issue behind all my personal attack gripes, etc, is that you don't show people respect when you've gotten tired of them.  The whole reason my moderating came into play was that I don't think that fits with the direction this forum should be heading.  All our debate here, since we have relative freedom of speech - should be conducted with respect.  If you're going to show little or no respect to someone on this forum, that really needs to change.

I find it really amazing that you could argue this, since it shows an incredible haughtiness to refuse to be respectful of someone.  However, on this forum you really have no right to trash people simply because you've grown tired of them.  This just isn't the place for it - and that's what I will moderate.

I respect you for your intellect and even your stubbornness, and I frankly demand the same consideration.  If that's too much for you, if magnamity escapes you because I'm so hateful - then I don't see any point in our debating anything at all.  And if that's what you've wanted; I don't know why you waste your time.  I for one miss the reasonability you've shown me often in the past.

By the way - I didn't expect you to vote that I'm a bad person.  I am curious who did, however.  But maybe you should rethink "not caring".  If you don't want to debate with several of the people who post here most frequently. . .why post here at all?

I reread a sentence from your post and thought I'd add - I do show you respect.  Telling you I believe you to be wrong, telling you that you are acting disrespectful - telling you in the position of moderator that I think you have erred - this is not disrespectful.  That is my opinion, and I don't need to give deference to you.  I am polite about such things, and that is respectful.  However, I see you as my equal on these forums - not in real life by any means, but here indeed.  Perhaps that is what you find disrespectful.  But there is a reason I am polite.  Consider it.

Now - I offerred to make peace.  You still haven't given me a reason you can't do that other than anger over old shit.  Shit is biodegradable. . .

I'm sure this will come as no surprise, but you got my vote. Though, I wouldn't say I hate you. Great annoyance is a better term. Hate is reserved for Dodger fans.

I know a few of the other 5 who voted similarly, and they should come as no surprise to you, but I'll let them speak for themselves if they want.

No surprise Ace - it's just nice to be able to place a name with the vote - and an explanation.  Of course, as resident ass, you don't really have to explain yourself. . .you annoy me too!

Ok, I just deleted a very long post, telling Loudass how full of shit his last two were, that he keeps ignoring that I find him very disrespectful to me, and that Polite does not equal Respect, as he seems to think.

Instead, I offer this challenge to Loudnotes.  Go back to the BlackOps and look at those pages where we debate Mazda.  Do I insult you first, or do you insult me first?  Not between me and Bondo, but between us.  

You see, you have done a very good job of IGNORING MY POSTS here.  You really have.  You just keep repeating yourself, like you did before.  Gosh, do I find that disrespectful?  

You aren't even a moderator in that forum, so you spill it into this one instead.  Just like (for the information of those of you that aren't in the Black Ops) Bondo started a thread there asking for me to be kicked out, which Loudnotes was the only other to agree with).  Since this couldn't work out there, it's now brought here.  

It's time to drop this bullshit Loudnotes, it really is.  Like I said, I will continue to comment, in any way I see fit, to any unfair moderating or suggestion that you make.  But since you didn't listen before, and don't seem to want to actually discuss it now, fuck the stupid debate about being nice to Bondo.  You don't address anything I have said on the matter, so it's pointless, and there is absolutely no reason that I should listen to a word you say about it.  Understand that.  You haven't been discussing, you've been dismissing.  You don't show me respect, you show politeness.  Respect would be fucking actually addressing what I've said.  Fucking wake up and learn that already.

One more example, since it's oh so fresh.

Typhy's whole post in the Snipey Poll thread:

All I have to say is: Snipey, you're a fucking idiot.                                                                                  

Loudnotes posts 4 after it.

Hmm, not on topic, a personal attack, and he must have saw it right there.  Hmm, yep, he's just deleting those personal attacks with no substance to make this a nicer place.  What fucking bullshit.

Typhy, I'm not making you out to be a target here.  I agree with your right to post something like that when you feel it's right.  It's just such a fine example of Loudnotes bullshitting about that moderation.  That if he really felt the way he said, that post should have been gone in a heartbeat.  

 For one, Bucc, my guess is that if you posted the same thing, it wouldn't have been deleted either.

As I said earlier, a good moderator will know when a person needs to hear things like that, and leave them. That topic was a perfect setup for a flamewar, because of Snipey being a spamming dumbfuck.

My problem with your posting wouldn't be in threads like that, but when you take a respectful disagreement and turn it into an insult-fest.  

But, that's a guess.  And considering that you started a thread about him not using good judgment in the same case a few days ago, I don't find your faith founded.


Ah, but you seem to miss the whole part about me not thinking he's used sound judgment.  Moreover, he's not living up to his own explanations.  He said has said he's going to delete posts that are just personal attacks.  I don't care if you think it's right or not, if he's doing well or not.  He's not doing what he says.  That is the point I am making.  So please don't make excuses for him.

You coming to his defense means nothing, because it's his explanations that count, not your theories.  You trying to defend him is as bad as him defending Snipey, or Bondo.  He's capable of speaking for himself, you should leave it to him.  


Respectful, or polite?  You see, I don't find Loud respectful, he tries to be polite, but they are two very different things with me.  

And I could turn all this around on you.  Snipey's so called spam was polite and "respectful", and you flamed his ass up.  The differences are, 1) I'm not going around telling you to redefine what you consider respectful and 2) I'm not asking or telling you to change your ways.  

What that means, in case you missed it, is you are telling me to judge Loudnotes by your standards, not my own.  Do you want me telling you to judge Snipey by my standards?  I'm pretty sure you'll say no.  Sure, it's always different.  You think Loudnotes is better then Snipey, I think Snipey is better then Loudnotes.  So, don't think we are doing anything different, except in our choice of targets.  That and I'm not trying to tell you to change.

Jesus Christ Bucc - are you blind?  Maybe if you weren't posting at 3 in the morning you'd get what I'm saying.

Just to defend a little bit - the rest I'll dimiss, respectfully, because I've told you I don't have time to analyze your multi-quote posts, and that they're a pain in the ass to respond to and quote properly.  Usually, that means I fail to hit on every point.  You could make it easier for me, or deal with it.  We've been over that.  Incidentally, I've told you many times - I never misquoted you, ever.  Once I used . . . to remove a part of your post that was irrelevant to what I was saying.  Also, I have quoted only the parts of your post to which I was responding.  The quote isn't there so everyone can reread it - it's there as a reference point to what you're saying.  That's why I don't repeat your entire post inside mine, every time.  Oh yeah, and once I capitalized a letter that was wrong.  

Snipey's poll was locked 5 minutes after my post, for one.  I've told you that not deleting something is never a problem.  Some things you just skim over.  We all do that.  Had I been deleting other things from that thread, Snipey's post would have gone too.  Since I wasn't, I didn't.   Typhy's and my discussion - which YOU carried shit from Black Ops into - was all about letting Snipey himself get away with too much.  Frankly, by posting the same poll again after we'd told him not to, he was being an idiot and I didn't see much wrong with someone saying so anyway.  Bucc - I don't think you have to NEVER use insults, just tone it down a bit.

I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have insulted you in Black Ops before you me, since I didn't use profanity or bullshit until my last few posts.  I'm not going to waste my time - if you want to show me something I said that offended you before something you said - I'll discuss that.  As it were, it was most likely a suggestion to get off Bondo's case - which I said as a friend, not a moderator.

But here's the thing - I'm glad you deleted a post repeating yourself about every flaw I have.  The reason I ask if you're blind is that I've offerred to stop all this.  I'm suggesting that we cut the bullshit, all of it, right here.  All you need to respond with is a simple "yes" and we're off each other's cases for good.  You can even nitpick at me some more - just agree to disagree.

That's my objective - for you to show me some respect.  I've told you I respect you.  You may not like my way of showing it - but you need to at least do the same.  What the hell do you have to lose?  Is this what you like doing at 3 in the morning?

You are such a fucking joke Loudass.

How can it ever stop when you don't take the time to even consider my side.  You fucking dimwit.  No, there wont be peace just because you want it, not when you can't even do that you asshole.

You can tell me all you want that you respect me, but when you SHOW that you don't, I laugh at your bullshit.  

Christ, you never will get it.  You say it in your last post again, you didn't use profanity, so fucking what, you insluted me.  If I've told you once I've told you 20 times, you don't need to use profanity to insult me.  Asshole.  So your respect is false, and you are full of shit.  You say you want to make peace, but you can't pay the price of that peace, you only pay lip service.  

I'm not blind, but your goal isn't mine (thrid time I've said that).  And it's not a do for Loudass for no reason world, especially when I already don't respect you.  Now, what the fuck don't you understand about that?  

There.

For the last time, Rapid, Buccaneer is not Grifter.  The anonymity is unamusing, and you're showing a huge disrespect for the dead.


Actually, I'm the one doing the deleting.  But rather, I'm leaving it just to show that I will moderate things that curse out Bucc if I see them.  Of course I don't know why I would bother since I supposedly have no respect for Bucc.

-ln[/color]

. . . And wouldn't we all love to know your IP. . .

I'm interested in how people think bucc is grifter (rapid)
The dates between bucc's kid's birth and grifters is to close together, and besides grifter was married, and bucc isn't, in the baby pictures bucc's woman didn't have a ring.

anyhow, an ip adress would be most kind, if not, i'll have some more fun with rapid

Also, GRIFT was cool, Bucc isn't. GRIFT had some balls; Bucc is a whipped bitch. GRIFT actually knew what he was talking about with computes; the only reason Bucc could get Apache running is because Deadeye pointed out the one button he has to click in OS X. :P

And Guest, I haven't deleted any posts in a long time.

Before this goes completely off subject and dies -

Bucc, you've refused a peace offering, and contemptuously at that.  I guess it's your loss - don't expect any change in my attitude.  I'll sure look forward to more of your "dumbfucking."

Why do you protect your own teamate so much?  Like jeb said, kid was born same time Grifter's was due, and Bucc didn't announce he had gotten his wife pregnant until 3 months before the baby was due~! :o  

Yeah, bucc is grifter and the whole grifter died in a motorcycle accident is a crock o' shit!   Who the fuck is going to believe it's a coincidence buccfuck and grifter have same IP, posting styles, grudges and attitude?  Hell, nobody with half a brain! :o  

Fuck Fuckadeer and his whole bad attitude and vibe he brought to these forums.  Also fuck the MP clan for abusing their Mod powers to censor others opinions!  It's a free country and free forums and we're all entitled to our opinion!  My opinion and the opinion of many is that fuckadeer is grifter, and that's that!  You can't change our opinions, but of course, you feel the need to protect your lying ass bitch teamate, who seems to even have YOU fooled.  

The truth will override all lies told.  Grifter is fuckadeer and has not grown up, changed posting style, and continued his BS in these forums.  Seriously, dont waste your breath on him loudnotes.  All you'll get is the whole MP clan ganging up on you, and maybe even making websites of you too.  It's typical of them.  WHen a single person owns them with logic, they resort to personal attacks.  Look at what they did to Rapid when he owned them with logic! :o  Even making websites to make themselves feel better.  Just the typical internet geek trying to fit in and be "cool".  Too bad he has no chance in the Real World. :o

Funny how a fat Mexican loser from Long Beach is trying to talk about being "cool" in real life...doesn't really work. If you were so "cool" Rapid, you wouldn't waste your time everyday tos ay you "own" everything...the only thing you "own" is a blowup doll - because she is the only one that has ever put out for you in real life.

As for the other moderators, check out my post int he other area and tell me if you agree with it or not. Leave this joker's post up for now so the IP can be checked.

I think the  :o smilies removed any doubt that it was Rapid, as he's the only person I've ever seen use them multiple times in one post.

Rapid.  Do me a favor and die, please.  My 5 year old cousin could "own" you with logic.

 I think it's unfair to say who you are until we have your IP, so, for the sake of this post, we will refer to you as "The fucking dumbshit", or in some cases, just "Fucking dumbshit".

What the fuck is your problem? You fucking witless hypocritical dumbfuck?


I'm pretty sure that people who are deemed "Mentaly unbalanced", or in your case, "mentaly disabled" have some of their rights revolked for their own good. Incase you haven't noticed, fucking dumbshit, this isn't a free forum.


Aparently not, as you so clearly show. However, those of us with more than half a brain will.






Beep! Beep! Beep! Irony alert!


Judging from your post, you're the one who needs to grow up, fucking dumbshit.


Yes, well, not everyone has the assistance of the men in the white coats like you do.


Now just stay calm, sir. The men will be here soon to take you back home. But in the mean time, keep it up. You're providing great entertainment value for all of us.

 ":o", is that what the doctors, not to mention your mother did when they first saw you? Right before they passed out?

Now sir, just take a deep breath, and drink your cyanide. We always knew you would do the world a favor in one way or another.

[/color]

Damn rapid,
You seem a little jealous that bucc's baby isn't a underweight crackbaby without a father like you are? Get over it rapid, we've learned to ignore you, but givin your size it was dificult at first, but everyone overcame.  Your what, 28 years old this year? So your birthday will be the 28th anniversary of the last time you last saw a vagina.

Well the guys that said Guest = Rapid spoke the truth...

Figured it was Rapid...that just earned him a warning.

here we go again...

aSs, warn Deez Nutz in your mouth BITCH! >:(    *m

while I backup everything Guest says, I might as well be him since it's well damn said.  Now how bout you get off my nuts, and anybody else's that feels the same about Grifter/buccFuck.  The fool earned his spot as being an ass.  Not just to me, but others in these forums.  I knew that if I left that asshole alone, he'd find somebody else to cry his bullshit to, and sure enough, listen to his bullshit versus loudnotes...  

I know Buccaneer is Grifter, just by the way he talks.  Shit, as if it isn't obvious enough.  And while his baby was born at same time just like Grifter's, and Bucc didn't even mention getting his girl pregnant until earlier this year, you do the math geniouses.  

Anyway, this is a place for debate, criticism, rumors and quarrels, this is nothing less of that.  So if you think all of the sudden I'm wrong for having my opinion, no less than this asshole called bucc who carries out quarrels at everybody's expense, then you're the one that's wrong. :o <-------(My Favorite smiley, implying you should open up your fucking eyes!)

Now fuck off if you  have anything else stupid to say to me >:(

It is fine for you to express your opinion (no matter how fucked up it may be) but at least have the testicular fortitude (aha, here is the problem) to use your own name and not hide behind the name "guest."

It was pretty obvious it was you (and confirmed via IP by Mauti) because no one else besides Snipey is that retarded. To make it seem like someone else actually agreed with you is foolish and a sign of immaturity and insecurity.

So do us all a favor and go back to your blow-up doll and quit spouting off on your retarded conspiracy theories.

First i would have thought he would have learned from the whole Postnobills imposterism...
and then i woulda figured he understood what mauti said
but no
?Congratulations you have palsy

You know I cant lie, I've suspected Bucc of being Grifter  a few times (sorry if that offends you Bucc, its just my inner skeptic), but there are some facts that Rapid presents that are false. Bucc dosent talk like Grifter. I was there when Grifter said, "WOMAN GET IN THE KITCHEN AND MAKE ME SOME PIE!" I have voice chated with Grifter a few times, he dosent sound like Bucc who I am on netfone as I type this. About the baby issue, Bucc's kid was born a few weeks ago, Grifter's kid was allegedly born a few weeks after his death. For anyone that thinks like Rapid, maybe some physical evidence should be presented.
Almost forgot, Bucc announced he knocked his old lady up way more than three months ago. I think I remember talking to him about it during September or October about nine months ago.

Get it right Loudass, I refused a half assed peace offering that sounded more like a fucking ultimatum to me (stop picking on Bondo).  And I refused it because instead of discussing my issues, you fucking didn't address them at all, just kept giving me your conditions.  Well fuck you, I don't need that disrespect, and I sure as hell wont offer what you want when you are acting that way.  Asshole.


Cossack, I don't mind talking to friends about stuff like this.  The big difference is that Rapid, like Bondo, chooses to be disrespectful to his memory.

To fill in the blanks for some of the other friends of his here that I don't talk to often: yes, I only told the people I am friendly with that my girlfriend was pregnant last summer.  First rule is you don't tell anyone until after 3 months in case there is a miscarriage. So I started telling people like Ace and Cossack in October.  Grifter's son Michael was born in September, two months after his death.

But, more important, any of Grifter's old friends should know better than to listen to the asshole known as Rapid.  All he has is a mouth and an attitude, which is why I don't bother responding to his bullshit.  You can use all the logic and reason in the world.  You can show all the proof, it doesn't matter, because he doesn't want it to.  He just wants to spread his hate and rumors.  That's all.  So I thank you guys for defending his memory, but Rapid isn't worth the time.  Fuck him.  He should be grateful that I'm not Grifter, or his system would have failed him long ago, but I'm not even in Grifter's league when it came to that stuff.

Sounds good and all, but the only dumbshit is yourself Bucc.  You wanted war, and you got it.  I have always respected Grifter's memory, hell, even made him a memorial page with collected quotes from all present RS players, but no, I'm the disrespectful one...  You see, I came to these conclusions later on.  When you "appeared" after Grifter "died".  You came in, and treated me disrespectfully, as if you had personal problems with me.  As if we had talked before.  But by looking at the name, I knew I never talked to you.  But after seeing the way you typed, the facts that you were using Grifter's computer and was playing his Video Games in the same matter as him.   Had same IP, was going to run his business.  Then you talked to me with such disrespect, that I knew something was wrong with this picture.  The minute I brought out the truth, you immediately attacked me in hope that nobody would believe me.  But you see, they don't have to believe me.  They just have to look at the facts. :o  

Anyways, you claimed you retired these forums, yet you come back to talk out of your ass.  You come here to fulfill your empty social life.  It's ok, because your display, shows the human waste behind it.  Keep up your BS, guess it's all you can do since it's all you know how to do... :o

Who the fuck is Bucc?

And how can u say that is Grifter ??

This fourm has turned into a nut farm, full of alot of NEW nuts!

I thought i would strole by and see who is still left from people I know! I find very few, but what I found was a pile of nonsence   ;D ;)

Mod Man I have not seen you in a longtime buddy show yourself !

But I am not on alot either,  Keep it clean here buddy! ;D ;)

Haha, well said NiX. You're the greatest ;D.

Yeah. . .I know Nix.  Nonsense it is.  This is all I ever do with R6 anymore. . .debating political bullshit with people who mostly aren't interested in hearing my opinion.

Long time no see, anyway.  This is what's left of modman. . .sigh.  I don't think I've even been on GR for a couple months. . .and the only game I have any more is Ghost Recon.  And it doesn't work for me in multi-player.  So here I am.

Auch lerne ich immmer viel mehr Deutsch.  Vielleicht k?nnte ich nochmal mit dir reden.  Die sp?te Nachte mit R6 und schlechte Grammatik vermisse ich sehr!

Hmm, since you don't like Loud getting in between the two of us, how about we try our own deals, that way Loud doesn't need to include me in it.

Here are our differences:
A. I believe in civil disagreement while you believe in hostile disagreement (Civility can extend even when someone makes a factual error)

You admit as much that you don't try to be nice when you are critical of someone.  There are nicer ways you could go about things than you do.  I simply think these nicer ways are the best for getting along.  And I think getting along is something to shoot for because open hostility does nobody any good.

B. I state and defend my argument while largely ignoring the structure or quality of opposing arguments while you criticize my argument while largely ignoring building one of your own (seperate from mine).

I don't get heavy into analyzing other people's arguments for possible errors, I state my views and if someone brings up a question as to if my view has errors, I try to clarify my stance.  You tend not to have posts in threads where you just state your own view without commenting on others, most of your posts are specifically replying to another person's argument, often pointing out alleged error with that lack of tact as was discussed in the point above.

C. I use arguments based on theory, hypothetical, idealism just to present a point while you demand and present arguments strictly of a factual nature.

You don't take my arguments as you intend them, in essance you don't try to understand my arguments.  Think of the "till you walk a mile in his shoes".  You need to understand that my style of arguing is different than yours and isn't really subject to the same analysis.  Sure, my Gran Turismo argument would be a lousy factual base for giving a defined nationality for Mazda.  But my argument was not of factual but of perceptual base.  Gran Turismo as a part of pop culture is a good sign of the cultural (not the actual) nationality of Mazda.  For the argument I was making, it is a capable example.  Our arguments came to different conclusions because they were based on different approaches to the question.  They can't be directly compared on a right/wrong scale.

D. I consider the arguments to be subjective with no right or wrong while you consider the arguments to be either right or wrong (mostly based on style of the argument rather than conclusion)

This is mostly a result of the above point, due to completely different methods and goals of the argument, my style of argument and yours cannot be compared directly as right or wrong.  They could only be compared against a similar argument or against itself (for example, if Mazda was in fact listed as an American car in GT, then my argument would be wrong).

This is what I was talking about with the two types of logic.  The difference between structural logic (premises based on a hypothetical situation, and thus not subject to being either right or wrong, but maintaining the flow of logic in reaching a valid conclusion, that simply the premises must lead to the conclusion that is made) and factual logic (which has premises based in a factual proof and thus has well defined premises to have the soundness debated more surely as right or wrong).

I'm sure there are more but this is a good general starting point.

I would like to mention that I agree with your criticism of Loud's moderation, there are no defined rules and so there was little precedent for that moderation action.  However, as per one of your recommendations, I feel we should establish rules so that moderators can edit out things such as he did.  But I have a feeling you wouldn't like the rules I would suggest be set up.

Bondo, if you actually read all that what it says is you don't argue or debate, you just give your opinion.  See another thread for the meat of that analysis, but you point it out here beautifully.  You don't debate.  

Debate (arguments) is a point, counterpoint, work on the points, bring in the facts that form and support that conclusion.

You give your opinion, don't really listen to others, or facts that point out where your conclusion is lacking, keep giving your opinion, say how your opinion can't be wrong, say how it can be both ways, etc etc etc.

It's not a subjective world out there.  You are living in a dream.  Why bother to try to debate a point when you never look at the other side?  Never consider the merits or shortcomings of it?  Because it's not debate, it's just giving your opinion over and over, without ever considering anything else.  And people say I'm arrogant?  Now that is arrogance.  To think that your opinion can never be wrong, and to never hold it's basis up to the light for inspection.

So all of your points just point to the fact that yes, I use logic and you don't.  Something established long ago.  That and you don't like my form of disrespect and still disavow any knowledge that you can be just as disrespectful while still being civil.

But I do use logic Bucc, a pity you won't get out of your own head enough to accept that.

And Bucc, I read other people's opinions and they influence my own, but the big problem is, your usual critiques of my opinions (when did I state they weren't opinions?  Opinions can be arguments and arguments can be opinions) don't actually disprove them, they just disagree with them, typically on semantic, value, or other similar differences that are disputable.

You criticize me of falsely believing that everything is subjective and not accepting that I'm wrong, well you falsely seem to believe that nothing is subjective and also don't accept that you could be wrong (certainly as much as me).  Only you do it in a hostile way, I don't.  You are no better than me, no more correct than me, but at least I tolerate the other views (what I don't tolerate is intolerance) and don't respond in an offensive manner.  Now, you can go on about how disrespect isn't always done in a hostile manner, but my posts to you have nothing to do with my disrespect (although I have no reason to respect you), they have to do with civil disgust about incivility.

Now that's a fucking joke.  I'm still waiting for the name of that other logic you learned in college.  You know, I asked for the name of the text, so I could look it up.  The one you told me about.  Where you learned your form of logic.  Bullshit.  You make it up.  We've been all over that.  


The opinions are the conclusions dumbass.  Logic is the argument used to form those conclusions (opinions).  Opinions are not arguments.  Where in the hell did you learn that bullshit?

Conclusions are formed, not at the beginning, but at the end.  After facts have been analyzed.  


First, nope, I admit where I am wrong.  And I surely consider any facts that point in either direction.  Second, nope, I believe that some things are subjective, but much of the world isn't (our universe is ruled by laws of chemistry and physics).  


Anyone else want to mock that one.  It's too bush league for me to hit.  (it did make me laugh at his bullshit though)


Bullshit.  Plain and simple bullshit.  You and Loudass have disrespected me often.  And I don't care that it's not as important to you or him as being civil.  Because to me, it all boils down to it.  And I have no reason to not show my complete lack of respect for either of your asses.  Neither of you has given me a reason (I repeat once again, because you try to be civil is of no concern to me, and therefore not a reason.  That's your wish, not mine.)  You just don't seem capable of getting it, you haven't so far.

Bucc, now you are the one who seems not to be reading.  I told you, I use structural logic while you use factual logic.  Like I said, my premises tend to be such that you can certainly disagree with it and thus claim it isn't a sound argument, but you can't actually prove it wrong...nor can I prove it right.  Thus you build up these premises and have a valid conclusion.  Since you can't absolutely prove the premises right or wrong due to their nature, soundness doesn't apply.

Compared to factual logic where the premises are directly factual and thus are either right or wrong and thus it is possible to judge the soundness.

It is essentially the same type of logic process, one just is theoretical and not subject to the critique of soundness.

As paradoxical as saying I'm only intolerant of intolerance is, that doesn't make it completely ridiculous.  It is sort of like the Mean People Suck thing.  I'm well aware of the inherent problem with the statement, but if you think about it and understand what is meant by it like I'm sure you did, it isn't "bullshit".

I think I've figured out what really bothers me, Buccaneer.  It's not the disrespect - I really don't care what you think of me or anyone else.  I think it's just the complete lack of self-control you show in it.  I think most people have no problem with disrespect shown through carefully worded counterpoints or suggestions - it's even questionable whether it's disrespect (since in our case I meant no disrespect, but you interpreted it as such)

However, you leave no room for doubt.  It's offensive to call people a fuckass.  It really isn't nearly as offensive to most normal people to face criticism, constructive or mean-spirited (however it's seen)

Why, as a society, do we have rules for politeness and civility?  Don't you think they serve any purpose?  Where would we be if people rampantly cursed each other at the slightest provocation (or none at all)  I'm not against well-said insults when called for.  But if you really believe yours have been justified, you're sick.

This board isn't any different from a public street, or a public presidential debate.  Just as you would no more tell a candidate to fuck himself because his policies are retarded, you really have no right to do the same here.

I can see that immediately you'll pull some half-assed response about how this board isn't the same because we're not actually running for office here, or some such reason.  For once, I think you should look at this post as an analogy - not pure facts - opinion-laden, but correct from my perspective as a moderator - I want this to be a civil place.  I don't care how "honest" you like to be - your honesty isn't appropriate.

I realize I've been awfully sanctimonious, and I really don't like it.  It's haughty and stupid.  But I'm sick of seeing you and Bondo at it, and having you always against me as well.  I've made it clear I'm willing to drop the criticism - if you'll show the respect to me to at least conceal your insults behind a veil of self-restraint.

Finally, have you taken a second, as I've done to realize my own hubris - to step aside and try to look at your posts objectively?  Whatever Bondo may of said about being logical - do you realize you just told him that he's not using "logic" unless it came from a textbook?  Logic is reason.  Bondo's reasoning you may disagree with, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

You asked for a reason for you to be civil - don't do it for me.  Do it for the community, for this board, and for the debates.  And for god's sake, do it to stop all this bullshit.  That power is fully in your hands.  You've told me I simply can ignore you, but you must realize how impossible that is here when you're one of the only ones posting.  I've been frustrated a number of times.  Still, I frankly can't make you be civil ("respectful" in the words I've used earlier) without continuing to pester for it.