*DAMN R6 Forum

... That these forums are international.

I love that. It makes me glad to be a part of this community. Even the guys who talk about there not being enough 747s to make us understand how wrong the US is to bomb other countries (not that 747s'll do that - only our own people's political change of heart can do that).

I like that I can come here and speak with a group of people that are diverse in their opinions and beliefs. It warms me. It's something I feel less and less here at home, even in Los Angeles. The right to disent, to disagree with those in control - it flows away daily.

And here is a place I can yell, without fear of reprisal:

FUCK BUSH
FUCK CONSERVATIVES
FUCK'EM ALL

thanks,


needed that


six

That is what makes me not be able to leave here, I haven't found another place to debate that offers as much.  Aside from just different nationalities and political leanings, most of the people who debate here are generally extremely intelligent (although some posters like to deny that of others  ;D ).  I think it has a lot to do with it being a Mac based place...you know, Think Differently ;)

There are better places to debat politics and whatnot than this gaming forum. When you go to a University that offers as many services as the Soviet Union did you find all sorts of forums. Unfortunently most of us are white males in the middle class. Sure we may be different types of "white." We may be a white man from Austria, a white Russian living in Texas, a white Californian. We dont get much from the lower class or from other races with exceptions ie Bander. It will be a while until we get opinions from the lower class on to this forum. They would have to get a computer first.

True Cossack.  But if you can't afford a computer, you probably can't afford much of an education.  And even the most intelligent person won't ever have the chance to form much in the way of qualified opinion if they never have their horizons broadened.

Sad. . .but the reason uneducated people can't better themselves is because they're uneducated, and they're uneducated because they can't better themselves.  It's a vicious cycle. . .

Did you just spoil yourself?

The big problem is that for whatever reasons (less funding, less nurturing to succeed, etc) schools in poor areas aren't as good.  I think the main difference is child care.  Parents in the higher classes tend to have more free time to spend engaging their child, encouraging them to try new oppertunities to learn.  That contact is greatly important in the younger time and poorer parents just don't have the ability to offer it.

Does'nt help when dads in jail ( or if you even know him ) and mom smokes crack instead of makin breakfast....

It's a good topic Six, I really like this forum because I get to see a bit more of a diversified picture of Americans, together with GR (seldom get any 'intelligent' discussions going there though) this is like my only chance. If it hadn't been for GR and this forum I'd be just as clueless as any other Swede (well maybe not, after all I do speak politics at the dinner table).

Cos, I don't agree with that, I'm a half-Jap living in Sweden (upper middle-class too). ;) But really, poorer people all have computers as well, just that they have PCs, many of the people who have macs are more educated people like academics and then their kids catch on to the same thing (that's what happened to me anyway). Most of my 'poorer' friends all have PCs, the ones who have a mac of some sort are all pretty rich.

My school had Apple computers throughout.  But mainly I've been with Apple because my dad is an engineer and likes the best tech toys, and seeing as the Mac kicks the PCs ass in being the best, he always got Apple's for us.

Yeah, the wealth distribution among races in America is pretty unbalanced. This fact is from my Class Issues course: "If a Ford Escort represents the average financial wealth of an African-American household, you would need a stretch limousine 300 yards long to show the average for a white household." Generally all my online buds are white and middle-upper class like me. I grew up and currently live in utter white bread communities, but I can't wait to move to a larger metropolitan area and out of the 6th whitest state in the union.

btw kilzo that was a pretty racist comment you made.

I know a person online who lives in a poor area of New York City (technically Jamaica, NY).  I know one hispanic person at least and one person originally from Spain but with Russian descent (all these people I'm mentioning are girls I know online).  Certainly not all of them are white or rich (or male).  Mind you none of them have Macs.  Really, if you get to areas that have more PC/Mac balance you do find more class diversity.

You're the pimp eh Bondo ;) (It's descent btw, dissent is something totally different). Well I know what you're saying, simple explanation to that though, well what do you know, macs are expensive!

Err, yeah, I knew that *edits post*

But yes, contrary to what hanging around mac gaming forums and servers might make it seem cookie excepted, there are actually females on the internet...you just have to like figure skating and having an online journal to find them.

omg sixhits your a fucking fucker...I am a republican, I like President Bush, and I like the community so..

FUCK SIXHITS

Bondo, you like figure skating? All the respect I might've had for you is now gone. ;)

Hehe, I know there are females on the net, I know quite a lot of 'em, the joke was really about how the only people you mentioned were girls (leading to the suspicion that perhaps girls were the only people you chatted with online..) :D

That was more my attempt to insult this community than a misunderstanding.  And btw, about 90% of the people I know online that I chat with are indeed female.  What can I say, women dig guys who talk about hot guys with them.

Snipey - way to make your position seem more attractive   :P


And tasty, I don't think kilzo's statement was racist.  Stereotypical, yes.  But he never mentioned race.  If anyone is being racist, it's you in assuming kilzo was referring to an ethnicity when he lumped all poor people together.  Not all poor people are black, for example.

Haha, Bondo, surely there are better ways to get to talk to girls on the net than to talk about how guys look..

Loudnotes, I was going from this post:
Maybe kilzo wasn't referring to that at all and I was being unfair. If this is the case, I apologize to kilzo for my hastiness and wrongness. Either way though, his statement was a massive stereotype, and an unfair one at that regardless of whether he is making it about racial or class issues. Your statement about me being racist was kind of silly in itself though - everyone is a little bit racist, the key is to make sure we ignore those racist influences and behave as equitably as possible. I don't think my statement was even very outrageous. In America (and most other areas) its impossible to disconnect the issues of race and income. All nonwhite races make/have a great deal less than the average white citizen in America. I never said anything about a specific ethnicity either - I was just referring to all nonwhite people. You are the one that immediately jumped to the conclusion that I was, and even provided the suggestion that the specific ethnicity I was referencing was black people. Race is a sensitive issue that is swept under the rug a lot in this country, but I don't think you were any more racially sensitive or politically correct than I was.

haha snipey you dumbassrabid

Just trying to play devil's advocate a little.  As it is, I've become convinced that the only way people will ever stop discriminating on the basis of race is if they stop identifying with it.  That goes for everyone - it's one thing to celebrate your shared culture, homeland, etc - but there's really no need to tie that to skin color.  If everyone just found something else to group people by - we could all ignore skin color.  Since it's meaningless anyway. . .

Well I'd say that racism is already diminishing at a pretty fast rate, the big problem imo is over-nationalism.

Heheh, and while we're on the topic of republicans....

so yah like Bush (go right ahead and vote of bigoted morons; its cool). And dude, thats the beauty of the US.

But what do you think of that Fascist Ashcroft (Bush's main man), the one who would have our civil liberties carefully managed by federal employees? Using our credit, our email, and our online/offline purchases to "find the terrorists" who like to read naughty books?

I always thought repubs stood for family values, civil liberties (not rights; things like gun control and tax releaf), small government, and financial responsiblity?

Am I incorrect in remarking that Bushian policies, and dare I say his idol Reagan's policies, have pushed American government towards gigantic comglomorate organizations that destroy families, coupled with federal rights increases at the harsh expense of individual and states rights, hugh government increases in spending and size, particularly in defense, and massed, untargeted tax cuts during a recession, linked with increased spending in general? This and under the watchful eye of a weekend president 3000 our our kin were murdered and our country held to terror, not just from terrorists, but also from our leaders? Leaders who choose their roles to be ones of violence and repercussion, rather than ones who used our generous goodwill to united the world behind them?

CONTINUED

Further, the erosion of civil liberties is a cornerstone of our current "war on terror". Immense power over the individual (with a noted desire for longterm increase in oversight of civil liberties via the attempted perminance of The PATRIOT Act), coupled with a larger grant of federal rights in the new PATRIOT II, which among other nasties seeks a right to revoke citizenship if that citizen is DEEMED (note not proven nor tried for a crime) to be involved in terrorist or terrorist related activities. That lil nugget of happy-joy alone could be used to ex-patriate drug offenders, for example. You've seen the ads, I'm sure, linking drug use to terrorism? Ever smoke pot, kid? No longer are ya going to court. If that bugger gets pushed through you might just be locked up, without trial, after they yank the passport and toss you, without a hearing, nor representation, nor a trial by your peers.

In a nutshell, the current adminisration has done much, either delibrately or unconsonabley through misguided attempts at the greater good, undercut democracy as we know it.

These things and more make republicans fugging idiots noobs, since those that lead them are in direct conflict with the core foundation of the party, I'm sure, the core of the pary itself. I myself am more conservative a man than liberal, but at this junction in history could not in good conscious vote repub because the party itself has be coopted for interests other than its members, other than this country's. The VALUES of the party as a whole are good, strong, meaningful values. They are not, even, in conflict with Democract values. The goals have been the same - the exicution is different. However, as I stated, this administration as lead its party astray, and in doing so embraced fundamentalism, fascist policies, and warmongering. Great group of guys you helped put in office (or was that the repub leaning Sumpreme Court?)

The action of this current administration are undeniablyy familiar to anyone who lived through World War II, particularly so for German Jews. The increase in federal rights over the individual is a key element - it allows the government, not your peers, to prosecute you for crimes uncommited, associations, friends, and beliefs. It lets the federal government look into you records without warrent. Please note that. Such actions were akin to the reasons this country was formed, among the reasons they hated kings and labeled them dictators. The American system of government exists to balance itself and please the people. As it is currently, efforts are being made to undercut it's divine balance and ignore the people's rights, under the pretense fo foreign, invasive and immersed threat.

In closing, it is one thing to wage war with an enemy nation such as Iraq, and for me to dissagree with it. That's healthy, democratic, and American. However, it is another thing to label my dissent as unpatriotic. Particuarlly when dessent was what formed this grand experiment of a country, what has shaped us, and what has saved us. What is going on today is the end of American historical democracy. People, likely like you, are part of a willfull minority (tho, so hard to tell these days who's got more backing - all sides are becoming to homoginized polically, and managed so carefully socially by the same media....) who would help through no intent but through blind obediance to your leaders, or perhaps even only to certain issues (like gun control and abortion), instead of demanding responsiblity from those in charge. Bombing is not good leadership, ever. It represents the failure of leaders to resolve conflict. Invasive federal powers is not good leadship; its the sort of things that lets bad leaders stay in power, because good citizens are afraid to tell it like they feel, because you never know who's watching and how easy it might be to have them dissappear. Have any middle eastern friends? Ask them how it felt to hear that INS agents (or was it FBI) were calling them in for questioning, and thousands of them were being held without bail, laywers, or accused of any crime, or - believe it or not - their own families being told they were being held. IMAGINE what could be done with such power, if applied with a direct purpose to the greater American populace. And do not bullshit yourself into believing the people would rise up and stop such things. They haven't yet.
 
Remember that old quote from a Catholic Priest inn Nazi Germany: it went something like this;
"First they came for the other polical parties, and I said nothing; then they came for the Jews, and I did nothing; then they came for my neigherbors, and I did nothing; then one day they came for me, and there was no one left to stop them."

SO FUCK REPUBLICANS, cause I'm not gonna let my country, my rights, be stolen by a fascist, unelected bigot who's idea of leadership is imprisioning foreigners and citizens without trail (even going so far as reserving the right to kill them through military tribunals), and bombing and nvading other countries, unlinked to any of the horrid crimes commited on my fellow Americans.

But for you, Snipey, I reserve praise. Cause like a good American should you have asserted your point of view.


six

BAH! I need a bloody speel checker.......

You get be-headed for saying things like that on these forums Six, I agree with ya though, but it's not my country, not my debate. But a heads up from me, what you're describing is a somewhat paranoid opinion but it deserves a thinking-through, I wouldn't dismiss it in a blink.

It was a long post and I had to bookmark it and come back to it.  But resurrecting this thread - I agree to a great extent Sixhits.  A lot of those things have been said before, and I find it a wonder that more people don't feel any sort of alarm at this administration's leadership.

How ironic that Hussein was compared to Hitler when Bush's policies make him a closer match. . .