*DAMN R6 Forum

     Hey, ya'll. I've long been dissatisfied with the fit and polish of many of the Ghost Recon weapons, from the weak-ass pistol to the wildly firing OICW. Let's have ourselves a gripe-fest. Which little weapon annoyances annoy you the most?

Definitive automatic grenade launchers and all the weapons that freeze my screen for some milliseconds when they get fired.

But the most annoyance has nothing to do with weapons:

Before you die you always freeze for a sec or so and that's total bs.

Enough flaming.

Bye,

Mauti

well beside oicw and sab80 all others weap sux
snipers havnt a great sight


i tried bizon 9 mm for fun, not good as sab or oicw

sad

weapons need to be adjusted

THE PISTOLS!!!! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD MAN, FIX THE PISTOLS!

other than that, i think the m16 needs a better zoom(add a bout half of what it has now and that should be good)
that minor glitch with the bolt action rifles(uoi know what i'm talking about loth) and the models so that you cant ditch glitch

The pistols are actually exaclty what they need to be - the 9mm round will never penetrate kevlar or ceramic armor. Also, why use a pistol when cqc will neve rbcome a factor, and if it does, open up with a rifle.

For the OICW, change rate of fire to single round or three round burst and that will solve your accuracy issues.

The major thing that needs to be tweaked are all of the glitches in the maps - there are at least 2-3 biggies on each map.

     Unfortunately, there ain't jack nor shit I can do about models or level geometry. All I can do is fiddle with the weapons. I'm currently working on a mod (called the |MP| * mod, where * hasn't been decided yet, heh) which cleans up the weapons, making them more useful and hopefully more realistic. It fixes things such as: the highly-trained Ghost soldiers not being able to control an OICW while firing, the M-16 being completely and utterly useless, and the pistols' reticules being so slow that the only explanation is that the pistols weigh 50 pounds.

     So if there's any specific gripes you have with any weapon or weapons, let me know.

I think the OICW is fine enough the way it is. I would not expect any gun on full auto to be very accurate. If you improve the reticule, then you will just make one of the best weapons even better and there will be even fewer reasons to pick up the m4 or sa80.  

If you really must improve the reticule, then take off some of the oicw's zoom.

if you make it easier for other people, how will skilled pwners like myself earn screenshots?  ;D

     IMO, the OICW is the best weapon because all the others suck so much. My intent is to raise the bar on all the weapons so that many more of them become viable choices. You're right, guns are hard to control on full auto. Even so, the inaccuracy of the OICW is just inexcusable. Even on three-round burst, which in real life is used to (generally speaking) fire a relatively closely-spaced spread to maximize firepower, the GhR OICW is so inaccurate that even 40-50 meters from your target, the rounds' impact points have meters of space between them. It's not only unrealistic, it's plain stupid. I have no intention of making all the guns perfectly accurate, because that's just as unrealistic. But our elite-soldier avatars should be able to use these weapons better than, say, a six-year old girl would.

     If nobody has feedback, I'm just gonna do my own thing anyway. I'm just asking so that if there's something you'd specifically like to see corrected, you can bring my attention to it now rather than after the fact.

Good idea Lothario,
ill keep an eye on this thread will you post that you've done the mod when its finished?

     Sure thing. : )

     I'm working on the mod in sporadic bursts. The mod is currently at version 0.1.5 (I'll be bumping it up to 0.2 soon). Here's what I've done so far: tweaked every gun in the game except the support guns (I never use them, so I'm not sure what to tweak and how much), which includes across-the-board accuracy and reticule speed improvements (some greater than others, for purposes of balancing) and most guns received zoom upgrades as well. Specific highlights include: MP5s are now far more controllable and have 2.5x zooms instead of the 1.5x they had originally, and the MP5SD no longer shoots tracers. The M-16 now has a 5.1x zoom instead of 2x, which met with great approval from the playtesters.
     I've enabled the AK-74 SU and added or enabled the following pistols: Colt 1911, Desert Eagle .357 and .50, H&K Mark23 .45, H&K USP .40, and the Steyr SPP. I plan to add at least three more pistols, including some more which are silenced, and some sort of machine pistol.
     I've also added a new kit restriction: No Support Guns.

     Speaking of kit restrictions, I'm sure there are good ideas for kit restrictions floating around out there. Let me hear them. Making kit restrictions isn't hard and doesn't add more than a couple of bytes to the size of the mod, so while I'm working on this, I may as well make some interesting restriction files.

     Tex-Edit Plus, my text editor of choice for most of a decade now.  :D

THAT DAMN FOG!!! The fog is by far the most annyong feature. I mean, what's the point of a sniper rifle if you can only see as far as the guy with the SA80 next to you. I also wish they'd have stuck with the kit selection system the used in R6 and RS. I hate this "well if you want sensors, you have to pack the OICW" With a little less fog, a little more urban maps and a larger zoom on the rest of the rifles.

     I agree about the fog, but it does serve a purpose: it keeps framerates up. Remember that this is a non-optimal port of a Red Storm game. That is, it's an imperfect copy of a weak engine. Without the fog, framerates would likely be in the single digits on even the best-suited Mac. There are fog hacks for single-player that you can download to see what the effect is. I haven't bothered, since I a) don't play single-player, and b) know that a lack of fog would cause my computer to explode. Even so, I do wish that the fog was a little further away in some maps.

Hmm. I think an overlooked gun in GhR is the AN-94. It's a shmexy Russian gun with single shot, two-round burst, and full-auto. The reticule closes very slowly, but when firing, there's little to no recoil. This is because the barrel itself recoils, not the whole gun. A shmexy design. Anyhoo, maybe make the reticule close a little faster. The zoom is fine (M-16ish), and it shouldn't be an excessive zoom like the OICW or it'll be a major pwnage gun. I don't think you should make the OICW fire tighter groups in 3 round or full auto. It's good enough as it is, and shouldn't be made into an uber-uber gun.

Howabout a no SA-80, or OICW kit restriction just for us who would like to play a balanced, fun, game?

And about the no fog thing, it is there to mask the rendering distance, in each map's folder there is a little environment file, a few months ago I made a little test no fog-max rendering distance mod, it is quite interesting, frames don't go down too much, but it is heavily noticible.

I made it on my mac using appleworks 6, it even is activated like a mod, I might send it to mauti if I ever feel like updating it, and if you do actually want it, it is on clan macgaming's hotline server under gaming ordinance/ghostrecon/mods, CMGNF.zip or something?

     Well, as I said earlier, my main goal with the |MP| Mod is to make the game balance a bit tighter. Along those lines, I have improved nearly every gun. I made the OICW more accurate, but lessened its zoom. It is still a good gun, but it is no longer the UBER GUN OF ULTIMATE DEATH OMFG. Give the mod a try, since I've already implemented solutions to most people's complaints. http://mp.macclans.com. The link to the |MP| Mod is in the upper right-hand corner.

Although, if you are feeling a bit more like going out of the way, howabout a iron sights kit restriction, although that involves editing all the weapons just for one restriction:\

     Hm, that's an interesting idea. I'm not sure how much it would add to the game, though. Even playing with a 2x zoom weapon is tough, so playing without any zoom at all would be damn near impossible to play, at least for me. I'll think about it. : )

Loth, I can answer your questions on the support guns.  Consider for a moment that each and every LMG has a bipod.  Now I know for a fact that no LMG, when fired from prone, gets as inaccurate as GhR suggests.  I think on the whole they are done pretty decently, but more accuracy when prone would make them better.  Namely, the gun doesn't move.  Price of this is that the reticule closes at the slower speed the game has already given them.  Remember the .50 cal mgs (I know you have all tried them for kicks)?  They are dead on accurate.  An LMG fired from prone is nearly the same.

For everything else, just IMO, I think the zoom is over-generous in GhR as it is.  There isnt an excuse for increasing it.  The iron sights idea is very realistic.  Oh, heres a big one.  The length of time it takes to rack the bolt on a sniper rifle.  Heck, I just hunt with my .270, and I haven't had any formal military training, but I rack my bolt in 1/3rd the time of the elite Ghost snipers.

As for the oicw, it should not get any more accurate than it is.  Look at the barrel length!  I don't care how much you want to believe a gun like the oicw can shoot like an m16, it isn't happening.  Any more accuracy on its part is a joke.  Remember, the gun is still being tested, it ought to have bugs to work out; ours is accuracy.

The opinions presented within are not meant to cause any arguments, though they are supported by facts as reported by a retired USMC officer with infantry experience (my dad!).

     Unfortunately, there's no way in GhR to change how well a gun performs in the various positions. All that a modder can do is to change the base reticule size, which allows you, for example (to use an example from some mod or other), to make it so that a .50 cal heavy machine gun or mortar launcher is totally unuseable (its reticule is the size of the screen or so) in any position other than prone. I had the same thought, that it would be the best if the MGs performed better when prone, but nooooo. Heh.

     My main reason for the widespread zoom increases was not to make the game more realistic. It was to make it more fun and faster, as well as more balanced. A 2x zoom is almost entirely useless in Ghost Recon, due to the fact that normal engagement distances are large enough that a 2x (or even 3x at times) still leaves you looking at an enemy that is almost invisibly tiny on-screen. The uselessness of small zooms leads people to choose guns with large zooms. The only rifleman kit with a large zoom was the OICW, which was one cause of the OICW being the gun that everybody chose to carry 98% of the time. A one-gun game is boring. So, I evened things out by making other guns have useful amounts of zoom.

     Ghost Recon is set in the near future, presumably after the OICW has been brought into active service. Who's to say that they haven't worked out all the bugs? ;D

     I'd like to change the bolt time on the sniper rifles, but I haven't been able to discover how to do so yet. Based on past experience, I tend to assume that anything that is not obvious in GhR modding is impossible, so I haven't been looking very hard for a way to control the bolt speed.

What REALLY needs to be addressed in GhR is cornering. (i.e. peeking) Peeking is so difficult to do reliably on a consistent basis I barely even attempt it any longer because it gets me killed.

I may use it to great effect on one corner, but on the next corner I try to peek and don't lean over far enough to see passed the wall. However, the person on the other side of the corner sees enough of me to kill me. If *I* can't see around the corner when peeking, how is someone else going to see me? You don't peek by leading with your shoulder, you peek by leading with your head! If my head is around the corner enough to get shot, I should see passed the wall!

Anyway, I think this is a geometry problem. Possibly a culling problem.

Peeking was a key tactic in Rogue Spear, and it was implemented smoothly (on the PC anyway). If you could do it well it really paid off.

I find it funny that people are under the impression GhR runs well on PC

it's glitchy everywhere

     Just so you guys know, the |MP| Mod is damn near finished. I just sent version 0.7 to Cringe, so hopefully he'll have it up on his iDisk and ready for download from the |MP| site by tomorrow.

     I'm trying to keep the number of updates between now and version 1.0 as small as possible, so I'd like to do lots of changes for each release. Therefore, play the newest version of the Mod, and if there's something you want added or changed, get in touch with me. Now's your chance, since I'm planning on having version 1.0 be the final version. So, if you wait to suggest something until version 1.0 rolls around, you'll probably be shit out of luck. So suggest it now.

     You can get the |MP| Mod at http://mp.macclans.com

Just as an odd personal request, could you reassign the kit selection "|MP| No Restrictions" to the default kit selection so that all weapons can be used offline?

     Actually, I have no idea how to work with the single-player weapons. Mauti, do you know where the campaign kits are defined? Or does anyone else?

origmiss/kits/*
mp1/kits/*

replace * with either:
hero
demolitions
rifleman
sniper
support

     Ah, thanks. I think I know how to make the new kits available in single-player. I'll try it out and put it in the next revision of the Mod. : )

Keeping my record of odd requests?

Could you also include a server side only version of this mod? I think it would only have to require the Origmiss and Mp1 equip files, no additional kit restrictions, just updating the weapons with the parabellum stats.

Is it possible?

     Yeah, that's possible. : ) When I get off my ass and work on the mod again, I'll do that.

I think the fog is way to aggressive on most maps. Visibility rarely gets that poor in real life.

I also don't understand why you can see so well in the corners of the screen but not in the middle.

     Spider, I recently created a server-side version of the |MP| Mod. It updates the weapons to the |MP| Mod specs, and it fixes the four kits that have binoculars. I didn't bother changing more kits because server-side kit changes don't show up correctly for clients. When selecting, for example, one of the infamous binocular kits, it will still show up as having binoculars. In the game, however, you will have sensors or claymores, depending on which binoc kit you chose. Given the ambiguity, I figured it wouldn't be very helpful to add the rest of the kit changes that are in the full |MP| Mod.

     Jasmine, I agree. However, the fog is so thick for two reasons. The first is performance: GhR is a shitty engine lacking many optimizations to allow long view distances, so the fog is necessary on most computers to get decent frame rates. The second is gameplay (I assume; the first reason may actually be the only reason): the designers didn't want snipers to be gods, as they would be in most maps given realistic distance haze. With the GhR-standard 7.62 sniper rifle, for instance, it would be a trivial matter to hit people 400-500m away, when to any player not using a sniper rifle, the sniper would be no bigger than a pixel and thus invisible.

     The greater view distance on the edges of the screen has a technical reason that I can't recall. It has to do with clipping distances in 3D rendering, but I'm drawing a blank on the details.

Interesting, I hope my no fog mod is still hanging around cmg hl, would be interesting, I didn't max fog on all maps, just doubled the maxplane and the fog distance, looked pretty cool for most maps, requires not much, unless you have dead bodies on or unoptimized mipmaping, outside that, I don't have many problems, but hey, my framerates suck all the time anyway:P.

Pretty interesting with the server side, I've been toying around with weapon stats, I even created a weapons server side that makes all the weapons as they are in droopy's general/enemy realism, was interesting, I still have the files...

As we should be  ;D

     Well, even handicapped as I am in GhR, I'm already a sniper god. So I don't worry about it too much. ; )

I'm also handicapped...

What annoys me with the OICW is that if you look at the gun, its the OICW/GL that acctually has a scope. Not the "regular" one with sensors, but still the regular has longer zoom....  >:(

I got the picture from this thread that you are making some mod  ???
If so make the zoom levels more even for all the guns. Cause thats basically what makes me not choosing them (m16, m4....)

     Yeah, Joka, balancing the weapons was my point for making the |MP| Mod. It is not complete yet, but you can get the current version of the Mod from http://mp.macclans.com, and the |MP| Server #2 is running the new server-side-only version of the Mod, so you can see what I did to the weapons without downloading it. The full version adds kits and kit restrictions, as well as new weapons. The SSO version only modifies the existing weapons. Give it a try and tell me what you think. : )