*DAMN R6 Forum

     I will admit, we are a new clan in ghr.  I believe that when in a CB anything can be used to help in the overall victory.  I don't know how many times in RS that my old clan STFU was beaten from people doing what they call camping and whatnot.  The simple fact is that it is a legal move, and until they change it in BL then the tactic is very well versed by all clans, weather they admit it or not in one form or another.  The definition of camping is quite undefined.  Some people think that camping under their definition is the ability to sit in one spot until another player comes within range and taking them out.  Another definition of camping is when someone has a specific area covered and they move from one position to another to ensure the secured area is not violated from another direction.  In our last CB we were accused of doing the later by putting sensors in key locations and waiting within an area and picking them off.  
     Tell me what is wrong with this strategy?  Was I supposed to be the one walking into their trap or were they supposed to walk into mine.  Who knows, but in the end we decided that against the clan we were battling it was the best course of action, considering that they would have done the same thing if they had half a brain to do so.  Many clans use this strategy and in most games in the CB we actually did not use this tactic with the sensors.  Although, we did study the map, as any good clan would do, and we did realise what the most common area's that the enemy would try and flank us, and outflanked them.  So if we win like this is that called camping?  I am sure to the other clan that is losing it is, but let's face it.  They (One in particular) did not want to hear that, and there was no point into getting into a heated argument with him about it.  It's like they want to cb us, and at the same time they have the gaul to tell us how to play.  Bullshit!  We did not cheat, we did not camp either.  we use strategy and skill to win the game.  It just blows me away that the clan we just fought is so butt hurt about the crap that they are telling lies about us saying that we camp.  I could argue about it on GR, but the thing I learned from RS being in another clan at the time is that arguing solves nothing, and in the end creates more bullshit.  
    The guy on the other team that was against us was really going off on us about shit we didnt do and I admit, Israeli talked some shit to him saying that we were, to piss him off goading him on more.  True to that it was not the best thing to do, but the other player was being a serious ass, cause he was seriously losing.  I mean if this clan we fought was soo good, then why couldn't they counter those moves that we had setup for them during the CB.  It was legal in battleleague and that one player on the opposite team was being a total ass.  No matter what the excuse.  So he can talk his shit on GR, that's fine in trying to say why he lost the cb.  Whatever.  I am speaking my mind about this once, and here it is.  so take it for what you will.  I have been on GR for at least 5 years and not once have ever been accused of camping.  But if camping is using sensors in key locations to know the movements of the enemy then i guess I am guilty.  And for those who think we were just sitting there, fuck them.  They are just pissed that we won.  It's an inmature way to be especially since the clan we fought was supposed to be one of the more versed clans in ghr.  Hell, what can ya do?  Just listen to their habitual whining I guess.  well, only one was seriously whining, and I am not going to mention who itt was for fear of starting up another bullshit argument.  Just heed the words, and stop whining.  End of story.

                                                       +MOD+ Saberian
                                                      Meathods of Destruction

The only thing wrong with it is that it's unsportsmanlike to set a sensor trap and never move from it.  A classic camp.

If both teams did it, not only would you fall asleep, but you'd both tie every game.  Hence, not sporting.  That's it.  Anyone can do it.  But to just set the sensor and wait is kinda cheap.

Setting sensors and still moving is pretty much OK in my opinion.  You may catch a glimpse of someone and speed the game along, of find them camping. So it's not the sensors, it's just how you use them.  

Ya I usually find sensors are best when you are not camping and they allow you to see whats in places you are not.

A sensor trap is an easy thing to do and it's brutal if you do it over and over.

Althought with the way map selection works it would be rediculous for the losing clan to choose the same map over and over !!! :)

That's why theres so many more RS games going on then GhR right?!?!? :) ;)

Wait.....hahahahahaha.

RS is dead.

Understood guys, I can understand that I suppose it would be camping if I were to set up sensors and just wait for them to cross the line, but then again in the gam we played we did not sit in the same spot, just waited for them to walk within the are keeping a close look at the map for when they do and then position ourselves from there.  Ya see, so if ya use sensors, no matter what you will be considered a campezr to the losting team cause they will be butt hurt cause u used them accusing u of just sitting there waiting fo them to pass you're trap.  In the fact of it we did set up sensors in prime locations covering the map so we had a fix on them before they knew what hit them, but we did not camp about it.  And to awnser Rapid's reply, ghr is better because it is more realistic.  Everything that is in ghr is used today plus the maps are bigger to simulate a realistic battlefield, and there is no lag advantage in ghr servers unlike RS where clans constantly use Their server to their advantage, and their is no sport in that.  In reality that is just another form of cheating.  so ghr is better :p
                                     +MOD+Saberian
                                  Meathod's of destruction

Anything is ok by me, camp all you want, you're still dead if you suck.
Btw Sab, it's spelled ?method? not ?meathod? or is there some kind of a bad pun about meat?

[Changed a spelling error *hides*]

Nah, you are right, I jsut couldnt spell for some reason in that last article I wrote heh.  Far out

+MOD+saberian
Method's of Destruction

P.S. I didnt kow that you were playing the spelling guard on the forum :D

I agree with Saberian, and you know what the funny thing is ...? Everybody that complains about camping that i have played against has done it themselves, and still continue to do it, period.

Also every game will have a more dominant side, and the side that is losing will naturally start to camp more and more as the dominant side takes control of the map.

On some maps, camping is suitable, on other maps, being agressive is more suitable.

I think camping is neither right nor wrong, its just a strategy that is there to be used by a team in a specific moment when it suits.

good Point Kiwi. Very good point

 Far out.  I am glad I am not the only one that sees this as well.  :)

Dude, Sab, you're like saying ?far out? way too many times dude. Like far out dude.

For my taste GhR totally sucks without TI on most maps (especially the "Bush maps" lol).

when u play it with just 1 live and no respawns its okay, but this sux when server may crash with os x at game end.

when u turn TI "off" u now may think u are the "cool guys" but in fact with respawns this is the most horrible camper feast ever. and forget these sensors. why using a sensor wich doesnt have the range of a cheap and fast bullet? useless on most GhR maps.

the only way to avoid being the only team moving on the map until being ambushed by a camper horde, cowering under the next bushes is to turn "TI" on.

Its like when u get heli or sattelite recon data during combat.

and most vets who startet with r6 will agree that it is great fun to ambush some nooby campers n full auto - hehe, and to give him what he deserves.

Thats why on my host TI will be mostly on.

regards ~

Sensors are best for offense for me, put them right by a bottleneck, and you can spot all the campers waiting behind that bush or behind that car.

     RS was, in effect, a SWAT team simulator. When taking a house or building, you move fast and decisively, so that the bad guys are taken by surprise and can't mount a defense. The gameplay emphasized close-quarters and quick games.

     Ghost Recon is, in effect, a military simulator. When taking a city, you move cautiously and carefully, so that the bad guys can't make use of their defensive positions and so that they don't get the opportunity to flank you. The gameplay emphasizes tactics and utilizing the defensive possibilities of the terrain.

     RS was a game in which camping was a sin, because it violated the basic idea of the game. GhR is a game in which camping is a tactic, because yelling battle cries and charging into the enemy will do nothing but get you killed (unless you're Jeb, of course... luckiest bastard I've ever seen).

     Do you know why occupying superior tactical positions--sorry, I mean camping--works so well? Because out of our entire GhR community, there is only a tiny handful of players who actually understand tactics and realize that attackers need to work together. When do the attackers lose? When the members of the attacking team charge forward individually into the enemy's position and get killed... then they do it again, and again, until they're out of the game. The attacking team is left with one or two people against numerous defenders, and they cannot win. When do the defenders lose? When the members of the defending team charge forward individually, etc.

     I've played games of GhR where the attacking team worked together and adhered to a battle plan issued by a commander-type individual, and they won without taking more than a few casualties. Tactics, tactics, tactics. This is not repeat not RS, and it never will be. The lone-wolf style of play is only marginally useful in GhR.

Yes - maybe we should have a friendly team agreement about having TI on or off in future, before a CB takes place. would be the easiest solution i guess.

I also understand why some of u like it with TI off - but it goes closer to r6 for me with TI on. its the same thing with those camper kings who where lurking around in city street?s cellar - before everone learned to use a HBS.

u still can snipe and move with TI on. there are just too many guys out there who dont like the "move" part much ;)

greets guys ~

Banda

Fools.  Though the gaming community for it may be dead, R6 is still far superior to all of your foolish games.  Plus it doesn't have stand-alone sensors or jammers, so this is a non-issue.

Camping in general is fine with me hell I camp in Ghr alot but Spawn Camping fuck that makes me so fucking mad when you get killed normally and some whore spawn kills you there shoudl be a rule if some one sc = spawn camp they shoudl be booted , yet agian that would be silly cause its kinda hard when your near the enemy and they respawn what are you supposed to do let them shoot you. the maps in ghost recon are made, in somewhat to piss people off when there are respawns on its like that with any game with respawns its just the way is. Same shit different pile.

enough said, r6 pwns it. was the best, always will be the best. pr you also forgot to mention faster speeds, better framerates, and more bases belonging to us.

Rainbow 6 sucks. lol

I could go either way on the TI issue,
When i spawn i can generaly tell where the other team is gonna be just from memory of the inserts. If you can't tell from that wait for them to shoot or tk first. Aside from that i think that the TI would only add more work for a server to do, hence adding bandwidth & cpu cycles to the clients and server.

TI, target indicator? If so, I don't think that shit helps at all anyway and if you've played a couple of times you basically know where all the inserts are.

To awnser Kami's question, yes, I do say far out a hell of a lot.  I guess you can say I am a prodigy of Cheech and Chong's Up in Smoke.  But what the hell, I just like saying it cause it can be an awnser for so many different statements heh.      Anyway, I do find this happening all the time in Multiplayer games that I go into.  It seems if it is not someone barking about one thing ya do it's another.  To be honest, Ghost recon is a game of strategic combat.  Yes, the word strategic is used because it dosent mean NOT using the equipment that you were given in the game to use, nor does it mean that you cant lay in the prone position while sniping someone.  Or it dosent mean that you cant use the terrain as a buffer from inccoming attacks.  Weather it be hiding behind a tree, wall, stump, rock, cave, or ditch.  It should all be allowed, period.  There should be no bitching about any legal kill made in Ghost recon.  RS, well, that is a different story when it comes to stacking.  It just blows me away how many people bitch thru their ass cause of kills made by someone who dosent want to get shot.  If they get too many kills in a game in one area then they are called campers, when in fact they should be called smart because the enemy was dumb enough to try the same tactic over and over again.  I mean it's crap to think that people get soo butt-hurt when ya play the game how it was supposed to be played.
    When I was in the military the ARMY didnt teach me to be a walking target like fucking Rambo.  They taught us to be covert and use cover and flanking tactics.  For these idiots to say that there is a wrong way and a right way to kill a person is bullshit, or for that fact when they tell ya how to play the game.  I mean they take the whole point of Strategic placement out of the game when they try to say that sniping even with a sniper rifle is either camping or some type of bullshit glitch.  Either way, the sniper can be taken out.  It's just the people that bitch dont want to have to work for their kill.  So in the end I must say that people that bitch unrelelntlessly are either: A. a newb  B. real bad at warfare tactics.  C. Dumb as hell  or D. just plain ignorant on how warfare is really done.

+MOD+Saberian.CBl

To add a comment about accuracy, i think the best strategy is the spray and pray. I mean when i play as support, and i see an enemy, i fire there, scare the shit out of them, and hopefully one of the bullets hits them in the legs, or even kills them.  But hey, that is me and my logic.  8) :-[

Another thing is the ditches... i hate them, i mean to hide in them! you are vonerable to frags. that is why smoke is the best, one they dont see you very well. Thus causing them to just GLANCE there. From there you sneek out behind an object, so when they realize that was a guy they will fire over there allowing you to get a good angle and kill them. Again that is my logic, it could also be that it is really late tonight and i have a report to finish.

Blitz  8)

Why cant we agree on switching off sensors and play without, it help for avoiding traps and camping like sab

And favorise more tactical movement of flanking and rushing

Is that stupid to say

Well without sensors you can't peak around corners. You can't tell if someone is in that highly fortified spot until you run through the death trap.  It will be a lot easier to miss the opponent. The advantage will go a lot more to that person who is in a great sniping spot and does not move.  With sensors, you have a chance of catching that guy who spends most of his time in a great camping spot.


 

A good situation that proves my point happens in embassy. Team B spawns to the southwest and then rushes to points of high cover where they can guard the 2 entrances to the base.  Team A goes around methodically overturning every rock. They come to a southwest and BAM they are dead.  Now Team A is down 1 man and is going to lose if unless they can kill 1 or more of team B. In this situation, if team B has small amount of skill and a big amount of patience, they are going to win.  Yet with sensors, you can place them and you now have a chance of killing that entrenched opponent.

camping or sensor camping is part of the game. i have lost using that tactic and have won using that tactic. to use the analogy of the embassy that someone brought up is a good example. if you enter a spot where you think is a good camping spot you place your own sensors and call in reinforcements. i think this issue is a non issue if your a good individual and team player. it takes a team to win no matter if your entering a trap or your out in the open.

I agree with Jeb on the TI issue. I could go either way. On one hand playing with the TI on would change the game element and speed up the game. But on the other hand, with the TI off, the clans that practice tactics have the advantage. With the TI off its all about tactics and surprise. As for the sensor issue, i have only seen a few instances with clans that use the "sensor trap". In the 7 vs 7 battle against DEA the game went hella fast, was fun, and saw no prolonged camping. I can truely say that I have seen other clans use this "cheap" sensor trap tactic though. You know who you are.

well if hte camper doesnt have sensor he doesnt know from where you are coming
and you can kill him. If you are attacking and dont have a sensor your skill can tell you where the camper is , behind the rock and not in the middle of the field waving to you.
And you can use enemy sensors for your good , the camper sees on his map and sees
4 enemys coming his way from all directions , he panics and runs away and gets shot.
what if u cant get to te camper without dieing , just nade him to hell.

I am glad to hear all of you're comments on this issue.  it is important to know and understand the issues that are presented here.  And for that I appreciate both sides of this partiular issue.  In the end, I believe that because of the even belief of tactics that are discussed here this issue should not be an issue but it is.  People all the time bitch about camping or sensor camping.  I ahve witnessed someone from every clan do it.  Hell, I do it myself, but lately I have not used sensors because I like to experiment with other ways of playing.  Either way, it is true.  People bitch all the time when I play sniper with a sniper rifle and I am camping.  Or even if I am outnumbered and I happen to have sensors.  So the only option left is to sensor camp and try to beat the odds.  It happens to all of us.  It's like in the last part of a LMS game online and the last guy is seriously outnumbered and knows it he set's up what you could say is a Last Stand.  If this is bullshit to people cause he wants to win then the others are pretty damn stupid.  
    I like to believe that people would do the same things in this game as in real life, if you were in that scenario.  Offensive tactics are one thing and well used by many clans at one point or another of the CB.  But defensive tactics should not be considered camping cause you are waiting for the brunt of the attack.  It is called smart to know when to be offense and know when to be defense.
     Sensors are part of the game, and they are there for a reason.  You can use them for offense of defense.  I think that is well established.  So to conclude this camping should not even be said at all for Ghost recon.  Except for the one exception of an offensive team member camping in a Siege game cause he is the last guy.  The object of that game is to get to the smoke point or destination point not to camp for the offensive team.  

No matter how cheap of lame it is, we all have to face this fact. It's a tactic. Many many army's (armies ??) Use it. Now don't get me wrong, I really look down on camping. It's a pretty unfair and unsporting way to get the win. But as much as I used to bitch about campers, I have come to realzie that they can be easily defeated, when using caution.  Now there are a couple kinds of camping, the lame kind which involevs spawning dropping sensors and just sitting, and what I like to call "Creative Hiding" which involves advancing to a point dropping a sensor and just chilling out. I look down on both, but I have used both in CBs (I don't carrie sensors, so technically it wasn't me, heheh). The truth is, we all camp at one time or another, it's part of the game, but a wise man once said "All things in moderation" so with that in mind I leave it up to the pro campers to decided what to do when they are in the next game. Contiune your habits, get a few kills and get rushed by some crazy ass foo with an MP5 (more than liekly Fusion) and get shot up fully automatic, underpowered glory.

No one has ever heard me complain about camping.

1.) It is part of the game.  If you kill me, good for you.  If you kill me while camping then I'm the stupid one.

2.) Anti-camping = Grenades

There's not really a spot I can think of that you can't clear with either hand frags or the OICW (sorry, but the M136 is a death trap versus skilled players). It's all about the angles. There's usually always a way you can clear a spot you suspect a camper/sniper may be lurking.

And no, I don't EVER stay in one position (camp). Mobility is my motto.

  Wow, I wrote this section on using Sensors in ghr right at the beginning of the 3rd season.  I am still suprised that it is going strong.  Obviously people must still have concerns about sensors.  Well, since i started this post I learned many things.  
1.  I have much more fun with nades then sensors ;D
2.  Sesnors will always be used in CB's by every team to camp a perimiter.
3.  OICW is not the most accurate gun
4.  U have to be a serious camper if you use all 4 sensors with the mp5 ;D
5.  Play Ghost recon while taking one hit of pot, it makes it much more intense.  Not too much cause then ya trip a little too hard ;D
(Dont get me wrong, I haven't smoked pot in like 9 months but would love some right about now ;D)
6.  Spawn killing in Multiplayer games is an art, and if ya dont like it ya got 4 choices:
    A. Dont die
    B. Defend ure spawn point
    C. Kill me before I get there
    D. and my favoraite, kill ureself before I get to ya, It's safer that       way ;D
7.  It more fun when on siege in defense to go offense and trip out the offensive ARMY ;D (boy the newbs get pissed when ya kill them near where they spawn.  They say stupid shit like, plz dont spawn kill, because they suck so bad that they have no other recourse.
8.  And the most important of all especially if you are a newb. Dont keep going the same way over and over.  Usually people develop a pattern for playing styles and preferences.  If they catch you in one spot they are pretty certain taht if you are close enought you will go the same way again.  Then if ya do decide to go the same way for some other motive like the revenge kill make sure you dont stand out llike an idiot.  Try taking cover behind something.  That usually helps with deflecting those annoying little people killers that enemies seem to shoot out at you so furiously.

Thank you guys for the psots and howdiedoo!

+MOD+saberian

P.S.  Shit, I think I better call it a night. thinking too much of Mary Jane
 :(

Wow, thanks.. But ask any team that has played me when I have an mp5 and they will tell you that I dont camp  ;D.

Don't be >:( when I get you with my mp5......  
Oh wait, you thought I was camping.....  :-[   Suprise...