*DAMN R6 Forum

We, I am truely at a puzzle here. Today we cb'ed two clans. One lose against KoS(gj guys) and won win against Fire. AgT was accused today of being cheap and I for one dont consider AgT to be cheap by any means. AgT defeated Fire in a 2 vs 2 RS match 6-2 and at the end were called cheap by Infection because we used the Storage Depot Map with blue insert. I will post our debate below and you all can draw ur own conclusions but by now means do i consider Depot to be cheap. Tactically sound yes, but not cheap. Even today KoS used Depot against us  to go up 4-1 but I never once thought to myself, wow, Depot is Friggin Cheap. Its all part of the game. So here is the convo....

*AgT*.:vooDoo:.: gg's
?<FiRE> Infection: not really
*AgT*.:vooDoo:.: maybe now u wont say that we camp all the time
?<FiRE> Infection: d00d
?<FiRE> Infection: you used depot which is even worse
?<FiRE> Infection: so desperate for a win go cb freak or someone
?<FiRE> Infection: but play us for real
*AgT*.:vooDoo:.: wait....did we camp or was that u camping and i didnt say shit
?<FiRE> Infection: YOU USED DEPOT
?<FiRE> Infection: WHAT ELSE WERE WE TO DO
*AgT*.:vooDoo:.: stfu and lose like a man
*AgT*.:vooDoo:.: jeesh
?<FiRE> Infection: stfu and play a real map
*AgT*.:vooDoo:.: poor looser
?<FiRE> Infection: d00d you know you just got your asses handed to you by kos so you wanted a cheap win
*AgT*.:vooDoo:.: thats bs
?<FiRE> Infection: you wouldn't even 4v4 us
*AgT*.:vooDoo:.: kos used depot against us and we didnt whine about it
?<FiRE> Infection: d00d they could own you or anyone else on any map so it doesn't matter
*AgT*.:vooDoo:.: lol, i cant argue with someone who can't listen
?<FiRE> Infection: ?
*AgT*.:vooDoo:.: try biteing ur pride and congradulate the winner instead of bs'ing
?<FiRE> Infection: I refuse, my pride is in assaulting.
?<FiRE> Infection: I bet the score would be closer if we played 10 games on Csl or something.
*AgT*.:vooDoo:.: shall we cb again?
?<FiRE> Infection: ask haz

Second Half in reply

?<FiRE> Infection: Do you want to cb 10 games on CSL?
?<FiRE> Infection: Best of 10?
?<FiRE> Infection: or Chemical Compound
*AgT*.:vooDoo:.: i asked, everyone is going to bed, including myself
?<FiRE> Infection: heh
*AgT*.:vooDoo:.: i dont see how u guys can be complaining, we let u guys host all 10 games
*AgT*.:vooDoo:.: jeesh
?<FiRE> Infection: You asked us to
*AgT*.:vooDoo:.: so..
?<FiRE> Infection: Besides just another example of you guys walking on me being nice, I let you have your map first for a big lead.
*AgT*.:vooDoo:.: we gave u the option to host
*AgT*.:vooDoo:.: i will have u know that all this is going in the forums
*AgT*.:vooDoo:.: im sick of clans whining after they lose
?<FiRE> Infection: wtf is that some kind of threat or something?
?<FiRE> Infection: you do that asshole
*AgT*.:vooDoo:.: asshole??
*AgT*.:vooDoo:.: ;)
*AgT*.:vooDoo:.: oh, i will
?<FiRE> Infection: People only whine when there is camping or poor map selection.
?<FiRE> Infection: I don't care if it is the rules, you should have played us like you played kos.
*AgT*.:vooDoo:.: well we didnt camp, for a mod u truely are a moron
?<FiRE> Infection: Just because you lost to them you were looking for a win and you can't deny that.
?<FiRE> Infection: WTF I DIDN'T SAY YOU DID
?<FiRE> Infection: YOU'RE THE MORON
?<FiRE> Infection: I said those are the 2 reasons people complain.
*AgT*.:vooDoo:.: the rules designed to be cmpletely evenly matched
?<FiRE> Infection: You should host first next time.
?<FiRE> Infection: Infection used CSL the inserts aren't fair.
*AgT*.:vooDoo:.: nope, we dont complain
?<FiRE> Infection: You just said you would.
*AgT*.:vooDoo:.: well, we wont have to becaue u wont win
?<FiRE> Infection: so you're saying you would if we did win
*AgT*.:vooDoo:.: im just saying that u are a bad sport, sport
?<FiRE> Infection: I'm only a bad sport if there is camping or a cheap map.
?<FiRE> Infection: That is not saying you camped btw.
*AgT*.:vooDoo:.: like i said, we never once camped, u guys caped the whole time, and a map is a map
?<FiRE> Infection: D00D THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CAMPING
*AgT*.:vooDoo:.: ?<FiRE> Infection: I'm only a bad sport if there is camping or a cheap map.
*AgT*.:vooDoo:.: so what r u saying then
?<FiRE> Infection: and right after that...
?<FiRE> Infection: ?<FiRE> Infection: That is not saying you camped btw.
?<FiRE> Infection: Those are the 2 times I complain.
?<FiRE> Infection: I usually don't even complain about camping.
?<FiRE> Infection: And you did one of them.
?<FiRE> Infection: Which was the map.
*AgT*.:vooDoo:.: so depot is  a cheap map, lol, try explaining that to the hole rs comunity, they will laugh at u
?<FiRE> Infection: Would you truly like me to ask anyone if they think it's unfair?
?<FiRE> Infection: VOODOO THE ONLY REASON YOU PICKED THE MAP WAS BECAUSE IT'S AN EASY WIN
*AgT*.:vooDoo:.: how so, most clans have a anti tactic for all maps, u saying u guys arnt orginized enough to do that
?<FiRE> Infection: yep that's right voodoo
?<FiRE> Infection: We have an anti tactic.
?<FiRE> Infection: But and anti tactic for that map isn't as good as a tactic.
*AgT*.:vooDoo:.: that is y half the game are hosted on each host, but we gave u a host advantage by hosting all the games
*AgT*.:vooDoo:.: i just dont like to be called cheap, all clans that cb us take blue on depot because they know they have a good chance at beating us, but do we call that cheap, NO, that is part of the game
?<FiRE> Infection: So you are admitting that clans take blue because it is a good chance to win.
?<FiRE> Infection: Which is what you did.
?<FiRE> Infection: But you should have known I would never do that.
?<FiRE> Infection: So you shouldn't have.
*AgT*.:vooDoo:.: lol, i should have known....????
*AgT*.:vooDoo:.: poor poor poor infect
*AgT*.:vooDoo:.: i have no sorrow for u, u lost, take it like a man
?<FiRE> Infection: You obviously don't know what kind of player I am and you have no respect for me.
?<FiRE> Infection: Thanks man.
*AgT*.:vooDoo:.: or beat us on the battle field
*AgT*.:vooDoo:.: on the contrary
*AgT*.:vooDoo:.: i have much respect for u and fire
*AgT*.:vooDoo:.: but not after u or they call us cheap
?<FiRE> Infection: I CALLED THE MAP CHEAP
*AgT*.:vooDoo:.: btw, why was hazard so happy that we chose depot
?<FiRE> Infection: It was sarcasm.
*AgT*.:vooDoo:.: it was like he was happy that we picked the map, that u had some sort of advantage
?<FiRE> Infection: So if we weren't happy you would have changed it?
*AgT*.:vooDoo:.: absolutly not, ITS PART OF THE GAMEEEEEEEEEE
?<FiRE> Infection: So don't act like it mattered what we said.
*AgT*.:vooDoo:.: ur right...it doesnt

So why didnt you guys just use Storage Depot as well?  :)
Yes, gold can get shafted easier on SD.

 Well, it is a bit cheap because of the insert, but there are effective ways to fight out of gold. But seriously, it's just part of the game - I do however perfer clans who do maps like CSL, which are more even.

Grow up.  We could have used c4 and picked depot as our map, did you want us to beat you like that?  God you're fucking 29, you can't keep a conversation in private that you started by pming me.  All the Battle League admins are being such assholes.

 infec please dont start a flame war.

i didnt start this thread to bash on u Infect, i just wanted this debate to be continued because I wanted to know how the rest of the rs community felt about this. And if u remember i started out our private conversation with, "good games Infection, lets cb agains soon". You replied with, you guys are cheap not a ya, good job to u to voodoo. So plz. elaborate for us...

btw: what does my age have to do with anything. most of the rs realm consists of my age.

infect claimed BS when we cbed once on depot if i remember correctly.
Depot has its share of BS, but its certainly not as bad as many of the other maps, the positive thing about depot is the size. Its a fast and small map and great for 2v2 cbs. The major glitch, and posibly the most used glitch in RS was that window, however most people learn to play around that. In my experience the gold incert was much better simply because of the options from the insert.

  In my experience the gold incert was much better simply because of the options from the insert. - Well Jeb, I totaly disagree here. The options from the gold insert at Storage Depot:

? Out the door, over towards the trenches.

? Rush out the garage door, and charge.

? 2 sniper posistions, door, and garage side.

The options for blue are:

? 3 sniper posistions without going far from the buildings: Window, left side snipe, from that corner spot, and right side snipe from the side.

? Rush out the right side door.

? Rush out the left door.

From blue, you have an easy path to the trenches. You can also flank rush into the field, and cover the gold base's door very effectivly. - So Jeb, blue obviously has more options. The only real advantage of gold that I can think of, is to camp inside that base, one guy at the barrels, covering the garage, and one guy peaking to cover the door. Of course you will want SA Jammers too. But aside from a camp set, I see no advantages to being gold.

I personaly find Storage Depot really annoying. For larger CBs, we ( my AK team ) generaly stick to maps like CSL and Met, where the inserts are very even, simply because it gets dumb if you do maps like Storage Depot and Amazon. I just hate it when you're doing a nice 3v3 CB, we have map choice first, and take a nice fair map like CSL, play out to a 3-2 lead, then the oponent takes Storage Depot blue. - I personaly belive in playing how your oponent plays in terms of map choice. If your oponent takes Storage Depot blue as their map, then it's fine for you to take Hotzone gold, or Amazon blue as yours; but if your oponent takes City Street Large, you should also take an even map, perhaps Turkish Bazzar.

Just my thoughts, and I'd like a response from Jeb on why he conisders Storage Depot gold to have more options than blue.

-Typhy

I feel that map is extremely fair.  We've won on the gold side many times, there is nothing "cheap" about the map, you just have to know how to play it.

That's a very good point. There are few things that you can do with a large team, because you know someone is always going to be watching each side, containing gold. That is much harder to do with a two person team. However, Voodoo and I communicated, and I would watch the back as he went around front, at which point we would simultaneously enter the warehouse. If you call that cheap, then you need to get some more teamwork.

I'd post the conversation that I had with infect, but it is almost exactly the same as voodoo's, and I already closed it.
Overall, there was a constant bashing of Depot, my absolute favorite map to play on, blue or gold, team or no team, all weapons, skorps, uzis, lag guns, pistols, c4, snipers, grenades, flash wars. It is just by far the greatest map in the game because you can snipe from the trench or the tree behind the warehouse, you can do cqb in the cement block and tube area, you can do assault inside the warehouse. The map has everything.

Oh and another thing, usually, unless the HOST is window sniping, it's very easy to rush out of gold, unless they are prefiring a full clip of an accurate gun that you run right into, it's easy to get out.

One final note:
Infect, you said that we had the advantage because we got to play our map first. That is not at all true. We went 4-1 on our pick. So when we had switched maps, and you chose Sib1, if you had done equally well, 4-1, we would have tied. If you did worse on your pick, 0-5 to 3-2, then you would have lost. If you did better on your pick, 5-0, you would have won. So you see, this has nothing to do with it.

Well, I thought it was a fun cb, while we were playing it.

 >:(

I don't think Depot is a unfair map, yet I do feel Amazon is. When I was FiRE (took me a sec to thik that over) we cbed Freak and they put us in the lil shack on amazon. They camped on its roof and naded this the god damn building colapsed (not literally).

Amazon is the biggest problem in RS. You get caught with the wrong insert and your going down.

So let's focus on god damn Amazon and eliminate it. And since we've overplayed storage I would think by now you could have a plan to be on the gold start.

I think Ill become a Forum whore, seems liek fun. ;D

HUMBUG!                                                      --Mysterio

No matter what all of you say, you all know that you pick depot for a reason.  That reason is because it's an easy map to win on from the blue inserts.

PS to KoS, I'm tired of hearing how you guys say you all won on Depot from Gold with your plan that Ultimo told me, nobody else is really capable of it consistantly.

Ouch what did I do ?

When KoS cb'ed you we even didnt pick depot (which is our favorite map) because you were complaining you would leave if we picked it. Now you have the nerve to call the BL mods, including me, an asshole for it ?

At first I sort of agreed with you, depot is sort of a cheap map. But its totally fair if you have a split host. If a clan uses depot, then you use it against them.

And on your comment about KoS is the only clan that can win on gold, thats not true. We are the only clan that sits down and goes over situations with eachother so when the time comes, we're rdy for anything. Most clans just run nto a cb and play it like they want a high individual score. n cb's we dont care how many kills we get. Our goal is to win, and if FiRe had that same attitude you would win too.

On a 2v2 Storage Depot blue is cheap. When gold rushes the snipers pick them off. When there are big games like 4v4 or 5v5 when gold rushes there will be numerous rushers to pick off the snipers and kill the whole blue team. In this situation it is cheap.

I  think that depot is a cheap map for cb's. Sure it can be fun in a regular game when you fooling around, but when it counts it gets anoying when people just camp. Also I was up watching everything they said including the cb, voodoo was saying how infect has been dodging them all season then when infect asks 4v4 voodoo says no. It must be a 2v2. Also I remember asking agt several times for a cb and them avoiding me and wombat. Hrmmmm does a differnece in the players make a difference in the answere?

i think a few of my 8 kill games came off depot from the gold insert, you have to learn to deal with the little window problem.

If you bust out of the door from the warehouse you can take down the blues rushing the big doors on the warehouse, then you throw a few nades and wait for someoone to show up on the sensors in the feild, take them down then go up the ditch and pick of the fools trying to snipe the other half of the feild.

From blue its shitty luck trying to go thru the big doors on the warehouse.

If you want to talk about shitty inserts look at warehouse from the blue side. It might shock you people who scream BS but there where some of us who loved hard inserts, like gaurdhouse.

OK...Psyks, #1) we have never dodged fire, we have won every single cb against you guys and everytime that I have asked Infect up untill last night it was a no answer from him.
                  #2) When and who did u exactly ask, because it certainly wasnt me, maybe you have yourself confused and it is urself that is avoiding me and asking when I am not around?!! The only time that I remeber someone asking me to cb from fire was when we were about to go into the kos cb last night.
                  #3) and finally, I could only do a 2 vs 2 becasue NH was bitching about even battleing against kos because he only wants to be part of the ghr team and Killmore wanted to go play ghr also, so that is why we could only do a 2 vs 2. So exactly what is the big deal with a 2 vs 2. Think of it this way, if you did a 4 vs 4, you would have just lost more points to us.  ;)

and one more thing, every time from now on if you guys wanna cb us, we will be using depot, only because u thing its cheap. lmao
maybe use it against us on ur host? well show you how to battle ur way out of gold.

People ask me alot. Psyks probablly asked me and I turned him down. By the way, dont come to me asking for a cb because I will only turn it down, the reason being is that I do not want to be responsible for a loss, also because I am too lazy.

   It's easier to rush when blue then it is gold, and whatever map you choce isn't cheap. I've never seen FiRE bitch like that or be such poor sports, so I really dont know what else to say.

I gotta agree Voodoo, its not cheap.
I am replying cause I saw FREAK get bashed and it wasent deserved.  I've noticed that somepeopl find us amusing and find us to be a joke clan, well we are 9th and we try hard as hell to win and show respect to all clans.  Infect I love ya, but chill out buddy ;D

Great Job to all the clans on this last season, awesome job and there were some great cb's :-[

I dont consider you guys to be a joke clan. I see great teamwork with you guys and love playing with all freaks members. especially that slut Happyjack

I think that Storage is cheap only if blue camps. I love to play Storage and rush right toward the big door and take down as many guys as I can before I get knocked by some smart player who saw me coming and hides behind the barrels. It's a valiant death, I believe  ;D . but if blue camps, it's too easy to win. window camping... ditch camping (which was a lot worse with 3rd person. i remember back in *D$ that was one of our tactics lol 3rd person camping)... c4 camping, etc. And for gold, FiRE: if you say that AgT never camped, then you should have known they'd be rushing in some time or another and laid some smart placed nades down when they'd be rushing around the corner or ran right out together into the barrels and waited to take them no 2v1 hopefully. it's a losing battle trying to prove depot cheap because it can be combatted.

No its not cheap and its part of the game


and secont the new BL rules will change all of this

dont worry

  Bah, SD is a good map. When I first started, I thought it was a bit cheap for the inserts, but I was wrong. Blue has a shorter distance to the trench but Gold is nice when you work it.
  I'm kind of offended by Infect's comment on "finding an easy win by cb'ing FrEaK".Yes, we may have lost to FiRE in that last cb, (if my memory is still intact) but our team did beat FiRE on Depot. And there was one game where I took out the whole other team:) (Sorry, just wanted to brag a tad). Gold insert is good too if you work the trench/pipe area, you can cover/snipe from corners, etc.
  Also, FiRE was complaning about Amazon, yes, I agree it CAN be cheap, but it's just that we as a clan developed a tactic to rush the Gold insert. Plus, when we were testing the map, no, camping is not the only option. Jackal, Sgt.Elias, and I were in Gold, and we had Blue use the FrEaK tactic on the map to see if it was possible to get out of the house without being wasted. It is possible to get out without being killed. I could get out without being phased, or I would be slightly gimped. There is the occasional death from it,  depending on the speed and efficency of the Blue team. But getting out alive   depends on the Gold team also. For example, in the tests, I had Elias shotgun the door open, while Jackal and I would rush out. We could avoid the nades, and run for cover. A couple times I have even taken the game to them by nading the upper walkway and it works. There is even a spot I found that allowed me to get behind the Blue attackers and bs them.
  Sorry that I got a little off topic, but it was showing that most maps aren't cheap. Good day to you all  :)

P.S.  FiRE, I respect you guys and it was a good game, but I am just pointing out a fact. Don't take it personal.  

SD Gold insert isn't cheap.  |?K| plays gold insert there all the time to prove the "gossip" wrong.  We have no problem wiping out BLUE on 3v6 Battles when we're 3 GOLDs and there is 6 BLUEs.  There is many ways to win from GOLD, but you all will have to do your research to find out ;)

ps:  Good tips have been given throughout this thread :)

Yes Rapid 3v6 it may not be cheap because people can be planted in different places and cover each other while in a 2v2 if the teammates go in different places than the blue snipers or rushes will have there crosshairs at the door and pick them off, they each go a different way and wait for them to open or go out the door while rushing.

   I found myself 1vs6 one time and won with no tks for blue, of course I was SA whoring but it was all good. I find gold inserts easier then blue when out numbered or in a Cb, maybe you would think different.

I think that....

1. there is many different reasont hat people cb on that map. Some think they have no chance against the other opponent.  Some just because they are good at that map.  And others because they are desperate for a cb win.  Also it is used to come back from behind.  

Good clans can win on any map or any insert.  The inserts on depot just give people an excuse as to why they lost.

2. Every map is different.  There is always a small map that people love to take advantage on.  Some maps allow good sniping tactics, and some rushing.  Depot is a good rushing one.  The only way its cheap is if the blue insert camps and snipes.  I mean mb 1 or 2 snipers depending how many your palying with, is alright, but not the whole team.

3. Nomad is right, if you know how to play the gold insert u can win.  Theres ways to stop rushers with nades and snipe off snipers


In conclusion, there is different reasons people use depot.  But no matter the reason its not cheap unless the blue insert camps.  But if you know how to play the gold insert, u may even defeat campers. thats just my take on this whole thing.  If it was a cheap map..why would they make it for the game(http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/YaBBImages/so.gif)

Yeah... and that was my arguement for 3rd person, but nobody listened.....