*DAMN R6 Forum

A while back Steve Wilson, aka Bugkill, sent an idea for a mod based on US DEVGRU and DELTA bodyguards protecting President Karzai in Afghanistan. These guys wear plain clothes but are heavily armed as you can see from the pics. I like the idea but wondered if it could be done justice without a mission campaign... something I'm in the process of learning.

I think the idea of a campaign based around protecting Karzai and fending off suicide attackers and assassins would be pretty intense gameplay, and the plainclothes guys could be unlocked as specialists, or plainclothes uniforms could be substituted for the standard uniforms, or both. Anyways, I want to get your opinions and suggestions on this. Of course the standard DTD package would include new weps, splash screens, all that, possibly some retextured maps.

Here's the pics:

(http://www.planetrainbowsix.com/dtd/bgspec/specop1.jpg)

(http://www.planetrainbowsix.com/dtd/bgspec/specop2.jpg)

(http://www.planetrainbowsix.com/dtd/bgspec/specop3medic.jpg)

(http://www.planetrainbowsix.com/dtd/bgspec/specop4.jpg)

(http://www.planetrainbowsix.com/dtd/bgspec/specop5.jpg)

Whatcha think?

how bout some USMC desert marpat camo on the regulars and plain clothed specs?

I say go fo it!!

Im up for anything, I aint skeered  ;D

Sounds good to me, one thing I suppose are they plain clothes so nobidy knowes which military group they are with or to blend in with surrounding people?
If its the later wouldnt the huge guns be a dead give away? ;)

I always wanted to do a mercinary type mod, but would be very similar the specialist that you get :(

I think they're in plain clothes to cover their identity. I don't think they want to blend in. That's why you see them with their SOPMODs out. They're there as an overt presence, and warning.

If you do an Afghan campaign, don't forget that you can also have SAS, Aussie SAS, and other European SF units, because they're all there helping out.

I'm sure that as with everything else you do "if you build it, they will play"


Go for it Coco, I think it's a great idea.

i second that. ;D 8) ;D

I think it's a great idea.  Personally, I think you should do plain clothes for all the characters, both regular and specialist.  That's the way Delta Force frequently operates.  Your mods have always been the best because you pay attention to the small details that give a feeling of atmosphere and immersion - and because you've always featured a particular unit or theme.  So - I guess what I'm saying is - I would love to see a mod centered around Delta Force in Afghanistan, complete with tac'd out weapons.  New maps and missions would be great, but I would be happy with weapons and uniforms.  Anyway - keep up the great work - I'm a big fan (although I don't post much).

ok, i'm the guy that presented dtd the idea for this mod (as posted in the first post). my personal opinion is that this mod should be released in two versions, one for skins and the other for the campaign. the skins should be called "Special Operations Forces Security Detail" and not be tied to a specific unit. the reality is that most of the time you will not know if they belong to delta, devgru, or the sas. i like the fact that you don't know who these personnel belong to, it would be more in the way of leaving it to your own imagination. now, here is an idea for the campaign that i think would be bold and ambitious, but would be awesome. i would like to see a campaign called "The Terror War", it would be a series of missions that will put you as a terrorist or as a spec ops operative, you decide which one. if you were to choose the role of the terrorist, you will have to attack certain military targets, defend your bases from enemy (good guys) assaults, and assassinate or capture certain diplomats in several real world locations. new skins could be made for the terrorists and different types of kits could also be included. if you choose the side of the spec ops, you will have various missions that deal with security for diplomats and eliminating "tier one" personalities. this is where you will take the role of specific special ops units that will conduct operations in response to certain terror acts within their region. i have a story in mind for all of this, but i only want to share this info with the dtd team at this time. the one thing that i noticed that is wrong with alot of missions being put out today is that they are not dynamic enough. when i create certain missions (for my own pleasure) i include several AI teams that are part of my operation. i don't come in to secure a airbase with six guys, i take about 4 squads with me and do an air assault and have my AI teams reach certain objectives. the campaign missions should include many of these aspects and make the player feel as if he is in a real world operation, not just a shoot em' up. some people may feel that it would be wrong to include the chance for the player to play as a terrorist given the worlds climate when it concerns terrorism. i'm an army paratrooper serving in europe and i for one believe that it is possible to play a game as a terrorist and not in anyway influence someone to go out and do the same thing, there is a right way and a wrong way to do it....i happen to know the right way. so, please chime in with your opinions and i will get in touch with dtd about specifics.

Coco...I am already starting on some weapons for this mod in the event we should do this. I like the TAC's out weapons anyway and now that I have alot of hi-res scopes and accesories this will be a snap. Anyway you me and Mac need to get together and decide if we ae going to do it.

Go Go Go!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You waiting on me you got your boots on backwards  ;D

Excellent MOD idea.

As for a small detail and misconception, a small bureau within the American Department of State is currently providing protection for Mr. Karzai. The Bureau of Diplomatic Security was "skinned" in the venerable US TAC MOD of RS days. I'd like to see them get a lil credit and perhaps a shout out of some sort.

HoosGhost

Ahh the State Dept. MSD! I hadn't heard of their involvement, but that's no surprise. I hope we can congeal this together, seems like a good mod. I have been making and stockpiling skins from almost every nation in the middle east, tangos included but I am wary of building a mod where you assume their role.... We'll have to discuss it more I think. Any Rogue Spear players remember "Temporary Tango Gold"? It was a great mod, now imagine it being released now?

Coco, speaking of Temporay Tangos did you know that Rodion is back on the scene? Word is he's waiting for Raven Shield.

Just some intel for you

coco,

well, i can understand why you would feel apprehensive about making a mod where you can assume the role of a terrorist, but i truly feel that it would not present much of a problem. i'm not going to give a speech on the fact that "it's just a game", but i will say that within the gaming realm there should be some freedom when it concerns this issue. i view games as a art and i feel that it artistic impression should be protected. you would not be making a game where you support the terrorist goals and ideals, instead you are making a game that has specific objectives and goals. the fact that your character is a terrorist should not matter. take a look at counter-strike, you can be a terrorist and you get the chance to whack a bunch of counter-terrorists, any problem? also, in most games that have multiplayer, you can assume the role of the terrorists, so i truly believe that it should be done. just as long you don't use real victims or persons names, it really should'nt cause a problem. hell, i'm a US soldier and i love assuming the role of the "bad guys" some of the time and get the chance to fight the "good guys", no big deal. this mod would be created with originality and all incidents are fictional, so noone should be crying about it being offensive when it is pure fantasy. i know about the hassle that bajabravo had with some rangers about doing a "blackhawk down" mod, but i thought those guys had no right to complain about it being made. a mod being based on a real event is not crossing the line, especially when no real persons names are being used. i know it was a painful event for those who were there, but these are the same people who embraced a film (that was truly toned down) and a book (great piece of work) about the incident. man, don't worry about people being offended about the mod, it is for the gamers and if people don't like it, don't download it.

by the way, "temporary tango mod" was the best mod EVER made for RS. IMHO.

It's a little known fact that we (DTD) also have a BHD mod which was actually combined with @WAR's "operation anaconda" mod. We never released it seperately, but there was no real reason, we just figured it'd be redundant.

I also recieved some mail from real life Rangers, one of which said he was present during the conflict and knew guys who didn't make it. His bottom line was that he saw what we did on US TAC mod, and he just wanted to know that we would build the mod to the same level as US TAC. Heh heh, I was also told that US TAC was the favorite mod among his buddies at Ft.Bragg! sweet.

I definitely don't have a problem with taking opposing sides, but I like to make everything as realistic as possible, and with some realistic AL Queda characters as your team, the line is easily blurred. MP deathmatches, etc.. and SP campaigns are different animals. I don't believe in censorship, but we'll have to give this some careful thought before going with the tango side. Basically, it's building 2 seperate campaigns, it could also feasibly be  2 diferent mods. Just thinking out loud. If TTT was released today, it would be a big deal, and there'd be a lot of people pissed off about it... not a good recipe for a successful mod...?

ok then how bout a mod that involves taking a terrorist cell down via an inside job? u get the best of both worlds there... a mutiny in the middle of a takover that takes them totally by surprise...?

if TTT was released today, it would be a smashing success. it was not presenting the terrorists in a light that was "inappropriate" or "offensive" to others around the world. it gave gamers the chance to be the enemy and that was it. there were terrorist incidents going on when this mod was (even in rodion's own country) released. these organizations were around before 9/11 and will be for a long time afterwards. i say make two campaigns where you can play as a terrorist or spec ops, GR community would benefit greatly and the gamers will love the idea. how about doing a poll? just to guage everyone's feelings on the issue.

A poll isn't a bad idea, but this forum really doesn't have the traffic for a good cross section. Over at GR.net or the platoon it would be a better barometer. I do think EJ's idea about the double agents would make for a pretty intense story also. The breifings could even be in the form of secret satellite phone convo's with shadowy higher-ups. There are a lot of possibilities, we an focus on the DEVGRU/DELTA mission campaign first and let things evolve. Ideally, both storylines should be linked in some way, characters could even cross paths during the missions somewhere.

if you can do that coco, this will be a great mod!

ok, i think ej's idea is more for a rpg type of mod (which would be cool) and i really don't know how you will be able to pull that off in gr.  coco, i'm sending you an email about this issue, please check it out and tell me what you think through my email.

yo bugkill!! I was wondering... how did you get the idea for a mod like this??

well, i'm a US soldier and i really like seeing accurate mods for games when it concerns the military. i came across this particular idea when i saw the attempted attack on karzai's life in afghanistan. then i bumped into those photos (first thread) on the net and i remembered to make a note on hoping to see this get made into a mod. i've already pushed this idea to also make it's way into operation flashpoint, but i don't know if it will be done. the fact is that most military type games are somewhat limited in it's scope and i really don't know who the dev's have consulting them, but whoever it is, they suck. why can't  i have the choice of insertion methods (fast-rope, parachute, underwater ops) when going into a mission? imagine getting to the planning screen and you have to judge what would be the best approach for getting to the objective. it would present a whole new way of thinking through a mission, because in real life, the insertion is actually the hardest part of any operation. your mission depends on how well you enter a area of operations and if it's done bad, the whole op is in jeopardy. i would love to see this aspect included in tactical shooters, but it's always the same ole' story with starting at point a and then go to point b, it's getting old. hell, i wish a dev would contact me and i guareente that you guys will get a true military experience, where the plan is just as important as pulling the trigger on a couple of tangos.

Yep, in Jack57's mods (Saving pilot ryan, postcards from Peru) he's got a few missions in his campaigns where you insert via parchute into a barrage of enemy fire. It's intense, and just to make it less of a slaughter, you are invulnerable for about 30 seconds upon insertion. It really adds to the gameplay. With the IT maps, you can insert via IBS on the water maps if you script it that way. Right now I'm trying to pitch the idea to him and hopefully pull him onboard for this or the IDF project. Takes some of the burden off me and he's already got the expertise, so I could focus on th characters, retexturing maps, and other things. Cobra and Mac are already throwing guns into the pot ;)

i totally agree with bug on this one; always have. hell if they ARE going to limit it to a chopper drop the least they could do is make it LOOK and FEEL like u just roped in! u dont even see the chopper that dropped u; ur supposed to assume that thats how u got there. not good at all.

How about an IDF themed mission about the Raid on Entebbe.  I saw good show on the History Channel the other night and I thought then that it would be a cool GR mission.  Lots of interesting Sayaret Matkal missions that really happend would make good game play.  Just a thought. ;)

a mission pack  for idf would be awsome, but i think the entebbe raid might be difficult to do because its so damn big and also it happened in the late seventies if i remember correctly. i think somthing like the missions in that idf mod for rs (dont remember who made it) would be good- it had stuff like rescuing soldiers, capturing prisoners and storming a hijacked bus, all on some slightly retextured rs map. what would be really cool is if there were some merkava tanks and m113s to back you up. anyways, i think a mod based on the current intifada would be better than a raid on entebbe, even if its a bit more controversial.

Controversy, what's that? ;D I do want to do that but I am working on getting my skills to the point where I can do what I want to woith it without being limited by my abilities.

FWIW - and this is just my opinion - I wouldn't play a MOD where you took on the role of terrorists.  Not in todays climate, not ever again.  

I don't buy the "it's only a game" arguement... ???

Imagine if WOI included a mission where you, as the glorious SS, have to defend a Concentration Camp from American soldiers trying to liberate it.  Extra-bonus points for killing all the remaining Jews before the gates fall.

:o

Just a game?  Nothing distateful about that?

There are some things are just to horrific to touch, and the perpetrators of 9/11, Bali, and daily Bus Bombings fall into that catagory.

All IMHO of course.

Good luck with the maps Cocobolo. I am sure you will do a great job.

Sam

I was playing a some PS 2 games with some of my cohorts at the FD today.  Vice City and Max Payne are some of the most gratuitously violent games I have seen.  So if anyone ever bitched that GR was bad or some of the mods involving terrorism are bad then they have not looked hard enough.  Violence is a fact of life, but the violence depected in GR is more of the classic good vs. evil (as long as you consider us as being good and the terrorists as evil, as it should be).  It is all an escape and lets us vicariously fight wrong.  I think an Intefada based Mission pack would be cool... Maybe a mission where the army goes in to protect a MDA (Magen David Adom) ambulance crew that has been ambushed by a cell or bomber.  The Paramedics over there are armed like the military and could be included protecting their patient from the terrorists.  I don't really know of anything else that would be entertaining.  

Not a bad idea Buffalo, not bad at all

Right now I'm talking with Crous Fam about a DELTA/DEVGRU?allied campaign focusing around guarding various VIP's, such as Karzai, etc. Possibly consiting of 2-3 mission sets fo each story, with differing locations, such as Afghanistan, Colombia, Iraq, etc... This mod will add new weps (get ready guys), plainclothes style tactical skins, new tangos and also new non-combatants. The "pinciples" like Karzai will look just like the real guys. Should be interesting, right now I am trying to figure out which maps will work best, which ones to retexture, and also cranking out skins. I'll post some pics later tonight.

 ;D  

    Ohhhhh sweet!   :D  


   I've been dying for a Colombia mod alla FALN barbecue time



 (FALN member)===>  :-[

Coco those new skins look swwweeeet. Awesome job, this mod is gonna be killer (no pun intended).

Yeah hes done a great job with this one, as usual. Hes also building me a special weapon for this one  ;D. Let the teasing begin

LOOKING VERY VERY NICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I totally agree with Bug, insertion is a major factor here if it's possible to be played with.

   What drove me nuts about IT was the fact that in reality, the chopper would be giving your position away like a son of a bit*h, and in some cases, a deployment to the north or west would've made life easier just from the info at the mission screen.  

 If it's possible to change, go for it

Hey, i know this is majorly living in the past but did any other skins get released for the USTAC mod?  ::)

Too busy doing this---->(http://community.the-underdogs.org/smiley/misc/icon_freak.gif) ?

A response would've been nice, but noooo... (http://community.the-underdogs.org/smiley/misc/shake.gif)

[/b][/color][/size]

AK Rapid, honestly, no one cares...to be honest that graphic isn't that good. As for posting that stupid "base" that you ripped off another site, that was just plain childish and a call for attention.

Coco et. al make good graphics, not cheesy banners that take less than 5 minutes to make in ps7.

Maybe this is an idea for a utility mod that could work with other mods or something that mod makers could add to their mods.

Would it be posible when choosing weapons or other kit items to display the specific information regarding how that wepon etc. works in the game. Range, accuracy, area of effect, reticule type/% visual enhancement, penetration or whatever stats the game uses with that item. The graphics are excellent but how does one choose the right tool for the job if there is no information available to differentiate between the various items. The game must keep some information on weapons. I have been unable to find anything that defines what the game uses to determin hits, damage etc. There could be a chart either for each weapon or all the wepaons used by that mod showing the various catagories tracked by the game & how individual weapons rank.

I use to play Diablo and you could at least go to sites and get stats on Bows etc. to determin which could do the most damage in how long, which hand to hand weapons had the greatest reach....

It seems to me that the strategy aspect of the game would be greatly enhanced by this information being readily available.

             

AK Rapid: I appreciate the offer but as it stands I personally do all the graphics/splash type stuff in the mods, it's my favorite part. also, I don't even know what the name is going to be yet! Please don't feel apprehensive to post here, regardless of anyone's attitude.

Cloaked Dagger: Please don't put anybody down on these forums, it's not the way we do things around here really. I appreciate your posting, and Ak's second response was definitely off-topic, but I like to keep it civilized without having to edit/pull posts. Everybody's friendly here ;)

Thanks guys,

coco, i want your body.
actually, do you have a ghost recon mod with your face on the character? If not, it would be a cool idea to have you and the mod team all in your civilian outfits.  8)

The scariest part about that post is that your name is Bronto...(!)
Ummm, we're in the IDF mod mixed in the roster, but we're not wearing street clothes. I don't know if I'd make myself into a character in a mod looking like I just walked out my front door... but hey who knows, lol

Ill let ya slide on that one coco, dont get use to it, lmao.

 :o
This would be the only mod that I would actually be impatient about playing.  I am not too hot about the idea about being a f@$k'n terrorist, but at least I would have to option to blow one the hell away.