*DAMN R6 Forum

ever since the start of 7th grade, two years ago (i'm in 9th now), i have gone to a private school which requires a PC laptop.  At first when i got it, i was overjoyed, at one point i thought they were better than macs.  Since then, i have consolidated al of my experiences and thought into one statement about PCs...*%# this @$*%!!!!  My hate of PCs has grown and grown, i cant do anything on this piece of crap!  Next year, i am probably going away to a boarding school like my brother, where i will have a mac and love it!  It is impossible for me to express my feelings(hate) towards this computer-wannabe.  I have concluded that PCs make you, as a person, more bitter and hateful!  Maybe the worlds problems would be over if u just gave everyone a mac :D . Well, i have tried both, and i'm done with the windows one!


i feel for those who have never used a mac-Colin---Cuo

I know a friend who split his hardrive for Windows and Linux just in case he needed a windows program for a project or something.

Colin could mb be a new, more offensive and angyer person for the new apple switch ads.

why do you hate pcs so much? if you knew the full potential of a pc, then you would probably enjoy it. Also, Linux is nice to have, i have a dual boot XP Pro and SusE Linux. There is a lot more possibilites with pcs anyways.

whenever there is a problem for macs, u can always understand it and fix it.  There are so many technical things that u do not have to deal with in macs.  There just overall user friendly i think.

hush child. A Mac is almost the same as a PC concerning hardware except that Macs generally tend to have higher quality parts because Apple would rather make the entire machine by themselves and make you pay $1000 more than you should for it.

PC's aren't bad, but if you get frustrated easily, pay more for a Mac and be happy...but you don't have a clue what you are missing out on.

apple has complete controll over the hard ware that way ass,
it means that the dreaded usb conversion that happened with the advent of the imac has indeed changed macs.
Look at pcs nowadays, still using weak ass serial ports for alot of periferals.
Its also handy as hell not to deal with Bios and other bs shenanagans that microsoft is so famous for.

     A PC recently devolved upon me from a friend who has entered the Army and is off to boot camp, training to be an MP, then Korea. He had no more use for it, so he gave it to me. It's a pretty nice machine that can handle games well enough. And that's all it's good for: games. If I want to do anything productive or play games (in OS X) without having to worry about crashes and constant "missing xxxxxx.dll" errors, I flip back over to my Mac and enjoy using a real OS.

     (Man, I'm getting way too much enjoyment from saying things like that. It's the psychic backlash from years of hearing people assert that Macs weren't good for "real work" or were just "toys".)

uh, my pc friends are gonna start replyin now... so uh... ya....  (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/YaBBImages/adminowns.gif)

"I flip back over to my Mac and enjoy using a real OS."

Thats halfway funny, a real OS? By what do you define a real OS by? Searously, im curious about what delusional concpets you have that would make an OS such as OS X a real Operating System.  Personaly I believe unix and lunix and sunOS to be much more "real" than that flowery Mac OS.

"ever since the start of 7th grade, two years ago (i'm in 9th now), i have gone to a private school which requires a PC laptop.  At first when i got it, i was overjoyed, at one point i thought they were better than macs.  Since then, i have consolidated al of my experiences and thought into one statement about PCs...*%# this @$*%!!!!  My hate of PCs has grown and grown, i cant do anything on this piece of crap!  Next year, i am probably going away to a boarding school like my brother, where i will have a mac and love it!  It is impossible for me to express my feelings(hate) towards this computer-wannabe.  I have concluded that PCs make you, as a person, more bitter and hateful!  Maybe the worlds problems would be over if u just gave everyone a mac  . Well, i have tried both, and i'm done with the windows one!"

Your just a dumb little sexualy deprived kid, get over your self.  Mommy and daddy will provide whatever you need/want for the next 30 years until they've gone.  Boarding school? and your bitching about having a laptop PC instead of a Mac.  Act your age and be greatful to have parents who will do that you little kid.  If you could point out legit reasons why PC's suck I would be overjoyed to read your responce.   Your just an angry spoiled little kid.


"whenever there is a problem for macs, u can always understand it and fix it.  There are so many technical things that u do not have to deal with in macs.  There just overall user friendly i think. "

I searously hope your never a tech support person.

What happens when you do want to upgrade a mac to get better performance, or possibly when you want to build your own.  Does it happen? nope! Why? Becuase you can just throw it out and buy a new one.  

< A proud PC user.

-Origin

OMG, TY ACE!!!!

Finally someone that can explain to him why I run a mac.  (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/YaBBImages/banana.gif)

Yeah Pcs have "Potential" BUT THEY NEVER WORK! THATS WHY THEY SUCK!

I had my PC for a year and my Mac for a month and I have been able to do more things and do the things I already did, better than before on my Mac. If I were to tell you all the sh** that went wrong on my PC you would just cry.

A proud switcher

-Hazard

Origin, ur PATHETIC and so are your pcs.  U want a legit reason why pcs suck, here u go dumbass:

1)  One word, DLL, Direct Link Libraries are the most annoying things in the world, every time u want to install something new they make u download a crapload of these!

2)  Their tech support process sucks like NO OTHER, pcs have an endless amount of vendors and sellers, while Apple only has one real one, Apple Inc., sure there are sellers like Macworld, Clubmac, and a couple others but they are all directly linked to Apple for there products.  Another thing, the Apple tech support people are the nicest people in the world!

3)  The overall layout and design of the apple system is much less efficient.  The entire system on macs is all laid out before u, u have control of everything, nothing is clutered, everything is organized, this makes it much much much more efficient for work!


Origin, its all there!  Its all compatable and perfect!  There is nothing more i need because macs never break down like your pcs do once a week!  As Ace said, macs have massive upgrade potential, look at any list of sepcs, any mac magazine, u will see how much memory it comes with and how much memory is can be expanded to (usually at LEAST twice the amount of memory it comes with).  Not only that but macs are a sinch to upgrade, especially for memory.

Origin, like i said, u are truly PATHETIC, u come into this forum, all big and bad, but u don't have the slightest clue what ur talking about!  I'd call u names and insult u like u did me but the truth is, I FEEL SORRY FOR U!  Like i said, pcs overall make u a more bitter and hateful, origin here is a prime example!  U are SOOOOOO pathetic, i'd mock u, but the challenge is COMPLETELY gone!  In short, u r WRONG and the next time u post here u should have at least a small clue of what ur talking about!  I didn't have to shoot u down cause u just shoot urself down!

btw, do u play rogue spear?  Cause i love it when newbies insult me and then i own them in 1v1s!  Would u like to 1v1 me noob?

WELL THAT SUCKS WHEN MY WHOLE POST GETS DELETED!!

"Yeah Pcs have "Potential" BUT THEY NEVER WORK! THATS WHY THEY SUCK! "
My PC has been running perfectly for almost 2 months, and it can out perform Brian/Viper's Mac, along with my EMachine, just ask when we race to get into WarCraft3.  PCs hardly suck, i can name countless reasons to prove you wrong, but to save time i wont.

Ace i respect that fact you actualy went after points in my last post, your the only person on the fourm to do so.  Kinda interesting, how Mac users complain about PC users being disgrunteled, and i dont belive i ever swore.  

But each point has a good counter point:
"It's quite mature of you to make baseless personal attacks when your lack of facts and logic destroys your attempt to belittle Macs. He merely stated how he has tried both Windows and Macs and finds Macs to be superior, a conclusion reached by many who have actually tried Macs rather than fall into the stereotyping that is typical of trolls such as yourself. If you really want me to, I'll point out the bazillion reasons why I would and always will have a Mac rather than some Wintel x86, I would be glad to as long as you are prepared to read a lot."

ReRead his oringal post, if he would have stated his experience and simply left as is. I would feel bad for going after him, however he went further into depth, and it was quite easy to base some attacks on him becuase of his story, again feel free to prove me wrong.    

"So a computer has to be *nix to be a "real" OS? Hmm, well as we speak I have X11 running because my OS is built on FreeBSD (*gasp* a *nix!). From what you said I got the impression that you run Windows, which last time I checked was nothing more than glorified DOS when you get down to the nuts and bolts of it. I'm sensing a heavy twinge of jealously because we have *nix on the desktop (with all of Apple's style of course) and you are left with whatever M$ decides to stick up your bumhole and charge you for."

True i run windows, and Unix and have been around SunOS alot.  Got me there :(


Post 1 of 2.. wtf i cant post long things? GET EZBOARD!!

AND NOW ON TO COLIN!
Take some typing classes woulda ya bud?

"1)  One word, DLL, Direct Link Libraries are the most annoying things in the world, every time u want to install something new they make u download a crapload of these!"
Dll is not a word, it is an extension, which stands for Dynamic Link Library.  And judging by your definition of them, you dont know how easy it is to get them, and install them.  Learn something first please, i aint no newbie to this :)

2. "Their tech support process sucks like NO OTHER, pcs have an endless amount of vendors and sellers, while Apple only has one real one, Apple Inc., sure there are sellers like Macworld, Clubmac, and a couple others but they are all directly linked to Apple for there products.  Another thing, the Apple tech support people are the nicest people in the world!"  
  Tech Support sucks in general for almost every product, so i find it hard a Mac tech support person can fix everything.  Also, there are numerous fourms dedicated to techsupport for PCs which are very helpful.  Me through Xp also has the lovely go back feature that allows you to undo any harmful changes... then again why would someone screw up their machine beyond the point of repair?  (thats rethorical (sp?))

"3)  The overall layout and design of the apple system is much less efficient.  The entire system on macs is all laid out before u, u have control of everything, nothing is clutered, everything is organized, this makes it much much much more efficient for work!"
This amuses me the most... LETS BREAK IT DOWN SHALE WE!?

You said "The overall layout and design of the apple system is much less efficient."
I agree, winXP is much more user friendly.

You also said " The entire system on macs is all laid out before u, u have control of everything, nothing is clutered, everything is organized, this makes it much much much more efficient for work! "
huh?! Ill send you a screenie of my desk top, not even close to cluttered, also which side are you batting for?

"Origin, its all there!  Its all compatable and perfect!  There is nothing more i need because macs never break down like your pcs do once a week!  As Ace said, macs have massive upgrade potential, look at any list of sepcs, any mac magazine, u will see how much memory it comes with and how much memory is can be expanded to (usually at LEAST twice the amount of memory it comes with).  Not only that but macs are a sinch to upgrade, especially for memory."

Memory? Wow, the idiot down the street knows how to snap in memory sticks, (ask brian again).  PCs have been and will always be more affordable, again you can prove me wrong, and if not as upgradeable, more upgrade able.  


As for the rest of your brilliant post...
"Origin, like i said, u are truly PATHETIC, u come into this forum, all big and bad, but u don't have the slightest clue what ur talking about!  I'd call u names and insult u like u did me but the truth is, I FEEL SORRY FOR U!  Like i said, pcs overall make u a more bitter and hateful, origin here is a prime example!  U are SOOOOOO pathetic, i'd mock u, but the challenge is COMPLETELY gone!  In short, u r WRONG and the next time u post here u should have at least a small clue of what ur talking about!  I didn't have to shoot u down cause u just shoot urself down!"

I belive from the statements ive posted up there, you took care of the personal attacks for me :)


As for the games i play, I enjoy the networking/programming aspect more, but i love warcraft3, ask brian :)  and i enjoy tribes 1 and 2 from time to time.   Never had the chance to get RS or RB6... sorry to disappoint.


n00b, you actualy made me laugh after reading your post... ace's was more... i dunno how to say it, better?

I do realize I sound like a hypocrite when I say take some typing classes... I appologize, I would just rather you realize what you type so it makes sence... my fooked up english still makes sence.

http://ugo.com/channels/games/features/switch/media/switch.mov

Though  I know that I am not going to convince any of the Mac Zealots here of anything, mainly due to ignorance much like that found in right-wing Christian goups :x       Why don't I post for my own entertainment?


      I personally beleive the main problems with Mac's are the people who use them.  any OEM system is designed for someone who either doesnt have the intelligence or the patience to build their own PC and save some money in the proccess, while making something completley capable of doing anything one would need to accomplish, e.g. video editing, CAD or CAE work etc.        Thus far all the 'pro-mac' people in this thread have basically said that they like mac's for reasons directly related to their personal inability to work out their own fucking problems. Unless you run Win98, or you're stupid enough to install software that wasnt intended to be used on a revamped OS ( XP, 2k, 2k ADV Server )   you wont encounter problems with DLL's going corrupt on you.  AND GUESS WHAT   even though DOS is an archaic piece of software, you can still go into DOS and delete things such as corrupted DLL's, fuck you can delete anything basically. And with about 20 minutes in an old DOS book ( GOD FORBID YOU"D NEED TO READ SOMETHING TO UNDERSTAND HOW IT WORKS )  you'll understand how to navigate the entire system! but wait, there's more intelligence required.      
       What'yall think about getting any piece of software for free ?   Within a matter of hours?   Plain and simple though not morally 'right'  you can get any piece of software on a PC within a matter of hours, provided that you understand how to look for, and download these resources.   If you pay for software for a PC, you really shouldnt be using a computer, that is unless of course you happen to be running a business and the *legal issues* have actual prosecutable reprocussions.  
    Yet another wonderful point I'd like to make, you're not limited to any number of products that either have to be engineered to work with an apple system. Like it or not 90% of the god damned world uses PCs.  If the demand is there, the economy will adjust to provide the appropriate hardware. I'm sorry but i'd like to see an HDTV Tuner for a Mac, or perhaps SCSI RAID cards.

Let's not forget the wonderful marketing techniques that Apple imploys.   Just recently I go to apple.com out of boredom, I see an add for a .25 Terabyte 1U server.     I think to myself within about 20 seconds that wow, they got ahold of 4 120GB drives.  Nothing a PC cant do, or excede in. Or rather, HASNT done before.  oh what about the 'amazing 12watt speakers! more than double that of the average PC!'    blow me, I've got  400watts of THX 4.1 certified sound on my PC.  btw Harmon Kardon blows my cat.   I could make better sound with two campbells soup cans and a dead rat.     Apple's entire marketing scheme is devised to glorify the ordinary, everytime that something has been engineered to work with a Mac, they praise it like PC's are 12 months behind.

Also, if any of you Mac Zealots honestly beleive that PC's still use ISA and fucking Serial Ports, you really have something coming to you. Mac's are not the only solution. There are a whole world of people out there that are completley competent in operating a PC and getting anything you could possibly imagine out of it.    My personal reasons for dislikeing the idea of using a Mac, is that it essentially limits you to using specific software, specific hardware, and by god, you have a fucking piece of fruit on your case.

seems like neospirahnis is one of the few people with some sense around here

I use both a pc and a mac but I love my mac way more then my pc (maybe thats because its just a crapy one). But pc's aren't That horrible and macs are not that bad. Hell my family is family is getting a pc and i cant wait because i love to play the more games the pc has.

i'll name <b>some</b> good things and some bad things things about each. Some pros are Pc's have many more games such as Soaf, Gr, Operation flashpoint, warcraft 3 and so on. they are a lot easyer to upgrade (Still pricey).  some Cons are they seem to last a lot shorter amount of time. Some tend to crash alot or have parts that do not mix with other parts very well.  

Some pros for the macs are that They last longer. They are more user Freindly and crash less. some cons they run less progams and games.(i'll go less in because most   people here have macs.)

There is things wrong with both pc's and mac's but they are just preferances so who cares. Dont bitch at each other say this is better or thats better back and forth either list your reasons or shut up. This post was about Colin saying his dislike for Pc's. but that is an opinion not something to start a flame about how much pcs suck. (or so i think I hope he didn't).

There is so little point in arguing about this. I prefer my PC for a few simple reasons.
1.) Games
The PC is the way to go when it comes down to games. No one can denounce that, plain and simple. You can go into EB or Babbages, or where ever, and you can look around and see that tiny little space that they reserve for Mac games, and most of those are just ports of well done PC titles. Face it...At this point in time, the PC is easier for developers to make games on. Instead of having a few Macs around, a producer can have one spicific configuration of PCs to do spicific things on. And they can be terribly powerful at doing that  :)

2.)Power
I can admit it. I enjoy that feeling of a nice, clean gigahertz PC that I built myself that runs fast on everything. It's a smooth computer. So far (5 months running) I havn't had any sort of problem, let alone even a hiccup.

Those things are all I give a damn about. I don't give a fuck if my computer is a cube, or looks like some douche-bagged up midgit girraffe looking at me. I don't want my home couputer to be small enough to shove up my ass. I don't care about that crap. Nor do I care about voice recognition to access a menu. If I can't move my fast fingers over to the mouse and double click on a folder, I shouldnt be alive. If I ever DO have a problem with sight, or whatnot, PCS CAN STILL DO THAT.

Personally, I could only see myself needing a Mac if: 1.) I somehow needed it for work (blah) or 2.) I was going to die really soon(a few days) and I wanted to masturbate one last time.

Go play with your IMac sissy...Uh oh, better shut down my PC before it breaks down again.

Yeah, PC's are a superior gaming platform. No one in their right mind will argue otherwise. You have all the newer games before us (save a few Blizzard hybrid releases like WC3), and have more selection. However, this has absolutely nothing to do with PCs being "easier" to develop on. The reason why Windows sees more game is solely because it has a larger market. Porting isn't exactly an easy job, but comparing it to developing is apples and oranges. Also, what is this crap about needing multiple Macs and only one configuration of PCs? Because the Mac hardware is so consistent, there are very few variables for a developer to factor in. On the other hand, Wintel boxes come in many shapes and sizes so there are more chances for incompatiblities.


That's great that you haven't had any problems with your PC for 5 months. I've never had a problem with any of the Macs I or my family has owned, which goes back 11 years. Check back in 2013 and tell me how you are still doing. As far as how fast it is, I have never had a problem lacking processor speed and I have a laptop! Try finding me an x86 that can do this AND still only be 5 lbs like mine.


That's fine if you don't mind your computer being a beige box. Just because Macs are elegantly designed doesn't detract from their technical specifications. The new iMac is one hell of a computer. It's G4 will knock the socks off most PCs out there and as far as looks go it isn't even close. Oh and btw, the cube was truly an engineering marvel. Just because it didn't sell well doesn't mean it isn't a damn nice piece of hardware. It's quite funny how anti-Mac zealots will invariably fall back on defaming the way Macs look as if it somehow detracts from it's ability as a computer. If you are going to rip on Macs, at least try to have something, ANYTHING, remotely factual to back up your arguments with. So far, the only halfway decent point you have made is that Pcs are a better gaming platform. So what? I didn't buy my computer just to play games on; if I did I would have just gotten a console. And for the record, we are all Mac gamers here who find plenty of good titles to enjoy on the Mac. I'm quite happy with MoH, WC3, etc. Honestly, in the end is it worth getting an x86 and having to run WINDOWS (there should be no arguments against the superiority of Mac OS X vs any Windows) just so you can play a few more games? Not in my book. If you want to, so be it, but I'll be sitting here loving every minute of using my Apple.

I know how to "build" a pc, but why waste my time and money on a computer i don't like to use. Sticking any pci card into a pc requires some amount of tinkering with drivers.
In the mean time i can stick a 2nd video card in my pci slot and not install any drives at all. Plug and play, the way it should work. So if downloading drivers and toying with the bios is your idea of a good time the winner is the PC. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/YaBBImages/icon_lol.gif)

bahahahahahaha
i've been "warezing" software (for educational purposes i promise)  for quite a while. And maybe your not awear how easy it is for me to get any peice of mac software. Hotline, Carracho, KDX are simply the best. And yet aparently its hard to get mac software off the internet, well i beat the beta 3 of RTCW before you ever downloaded it from kazzaa. I could download any 700meg diskimage off a KDX server on a OC-3 in under a hour while your getting spyed on by the p2p spyware employed on the pc side of things.

Your belovid N'Vidia cards have been released on mac before pc, not mention its posible to flash a pc card to work on mac. 90% of the world is using pcs, but apple is one of the only computer companys making money in the economy today. Why would i need HDTV tuner for mac, its flawed technology anyways. And a scsi raid, why raid scsi when there is the cheaper and easyer to use software known as ATA133?
Oh yes, using a PC involves taking the harder road, like building a computer and setting up scsi ids.
Sudenly all the Dell servers that do the exact same thing are bad also? And what mac server might fall victum to code red? oh wait, i forgot about unix also....

My dad has those same 12watt speakers pared with a iSub,considering that it costs 250$ less, i'd say its better than your speakers. If you were a true audiophile you'd own a pair of 250$ Sennheiser studio monitor headphones like i do, or your couple your audio output to a nice 800$ Denon reciever with speakers that could blow the soundcard out of your "pc"

I'm not sure that anyone will need software that doesn't exist on the mac now adays, that hasn't been the case for 4 years. Having the vender control the hardware (and the os) on the computers is a nice thing. Sure i'm "limited" to hardware because i can't put in 1 motherboard put out by 15 different companys. But we get things like USB and Firewire, and phased out serial along time ago. Apple hasn't produced a berry flavored imac in almost a year, let alone any other computer with a gay color.

Pcs have over 20,000 viruses, Mac osX has none.

If i wanted a headache i'd sit down and use a Pc, if i want a computer that i can sit down and use without any problems and no crashes i'd use a mac. Terminal reports not one crash in the past year with osX. Non the less working a mac is seemless and fool proof.

Mac OSX beat out Windows Xp on Cnet, and the apple cin display was ranked editors choice from maximum pc (even though they can't use them on their precious home made computers)

Well Jeb already pointed out the Mac warez scene, but how about getting a piece of software to do virtually anything you want for free, LEGALLY. Go ahead, check for yourself: Sourceforge (http://www.sourceforge.net/). M$ Office? Why pay hundreds of dollars or steal it when you can have OpenOffice for free or Appleworks for 40 bucks. Photoshop? Well ignoring the fact that it's out for OS X and the X version destroys the Windows version, how about the GIMP... for free. X, MySQL, Postgre, Emacs, Vim, the list goes on and on. Hell, we even have Fink to manage it all Debian style. While there is a lot of software for Windows, it really can't compare to the combination of native Aqua applications and *nix open source software that we can run simultaneously under OS X.


How does not wanting to suffer through all of Windows problems mean that I don't have the ability. I am your stereotypical Mac user, but I can run circles around most anyone I know. You say you can go into DOS and mess around if need be? Whoop-dee-fucking-doo. I have FreeBSD. FreeBSD is an awesome *nix and from the command line I have the power to change ANYTHING I want or need to change. And frankly, it will be far easier than in DOS. In DOS, can you shell script? I think not. What about grepping, piping, etc. so you can find exactly what you need? Nope, not in DOS. I would highly advise you to drop this. In a DOS vs FreeBSD argument, DOS will lose 10 times out of 10.


You are right; Macs are not the only solution. However, as far as I see it they are by far and away the best solution. We Mac users are not blindly ignorant; we recognize a superior product. It does everything we ask it to do, all the while with a smile on our face. Can you say the same of all the PCs you have used? I think not.

I know i'm double posting, but i guess i can't make that previous post any larger :(

Well this is quite amuzing,
http://www.techtv.com/screensavers/opinion/story/0,24330,3391959,00.html (http://www.techtv.com/screensavers/opinion/story/0,24330,3391959,00.html)

"* 70.2 percent of Mac users online have a college degree, compared to 54.2 percent of all Web surfers."
"# Mac users are 58 percent more likely than the general online population to build their own website."

Well, i can build my own computer, i'm a computer science major in college,i can get my way around C++, java, php and Cocoa, i has a mastery of photoshop, i know webdesign, a mild bit of knowledge of telnet and cisco (my friend gave me the online course learning books).
Untill you can load and watch a 600meg divx in the background while ripping music and downloading "educational" software" you will never know why unix is great. not to mention the "i" apps like iSync, iCal, iPhoto, and iTunes that have greatly enhanced how i use my computer.
I'm also happy to say that i don't have one peice of microsoft software installed on my computer. Appleworks works just as good as word if not better for typing psycology papers, I don't need to waste my time watching porn in .asf format, and chimera based off mozilla is 3 times better than IE is, not to mention the speed

you all are computer newbs, regardless of mac or pc. do you think someone intelligent enough to assemble and compile computers and effectively use their resources would waste time posting here? argue about some other topics while you're at it:

which is more attractive, black or white?
which makes better cars, honda or toyota?
which gender is superior, male or female?
which came first, the hen or the egg?

A) I know how to assemble a computer.
B) You don't compile computers. You compile programs. And yes, I can compile binaries from source just fine.

i also found this...
"Our peak rate of 270,147,024 kkeys/sec is equivalent to 32,504 800MHz Apple PowerBook G4 laptops or 45,998 2GHz AMD Athlon XP machines or (to use some rc5-56 numbers) nearly a half million Pentium Pro 200s. "
hrm lets examin  the numbers of the surely "slower" macs
32,504 800MHz Apple PowerBook G4 laptops
45,998 2GHz AMD Athlon XP machines
it takes a 15,000 more comptuers to have the same power as a computer that is clocked 1200mhz slower than the amd?
here is the link
http://www.distributed.net/pressroom/news-20020926.html
oh, and neither toyota or honda makes a "good" car in my eyes
and i'm a athiest so i really could give a shit about the chicken egg nonsence.

What made you think RAID cards for Mac don't exist? They've been around practically as long as RAID arrays have. It's also particurally humorus since for years, ALL Macs ran their drives on the SCSI bus while the majority of PCs started using the less expensive and slower IDE/ATA bus. It's only recently that Apple has switched over to the cheaper interface, but right as it got to the point where the speed made no difference, except to proffesionals who would customize their systems drive setup anyways.

Why would i want to have a HDTV tuner on my computer anyways? If i want a HDTV tuner on anything it would be on my TV. I think this is just an example of a bad example.

---

as for the sound systems on computers... if i want to hear the music on my computer loud all i have to do is run a cable form to to my stereo, which might not be surround sound and all that fancy bullshit, but a 400 watt receiver and a pair of three-way speakers with 12" woofers will put out some decent sound. And if i wanna go nuts i can always pull out the other pair of speakers. Their woofers are only like 8" or so, but another pair of speakers makes it that much louder.. and they have a nicer high-range.

Might not be up to jeb's audiophile inspection, but they make the cut for me. and as jeb said... just invest in a good pair of heaphones.. for them cheaper audiophiles out there i can vouch for the Sony Studio Reference headphones, model MDR-V600. Nice, clean bass, and crisp highs as well. good for any type of music. Just beware.. you'll get spoiled by them easily. Any other headphones will sound like shit.

---

i'm too lazy to spell check/edit... is that another sign of a mac use? laziness?

The only good use for a PC:

1.) Games ? They win here. Loads of developers. I think it was Ace that said this is due to the PC's market share. Then again, I would just buy a console.

2.) CAD ? While there are only a few CAD programs for Mac(engineering and what not), I'd like to see a "decent" printed curcuit board layout program for mac, along with circuit simulations.

3.) Hardware development ? PC's are their fucking outdated  ports. Most PIC, 68HC11 microcontroller development boards(the ugly guts of robots, home automation, and many other applications) that I've seen use...guess what? Parallel printer or the serial port for programming! Hope isn't completely gone. The people at the company www.activewireinc.com have a USB I/O board with Mac support!! woot!!


These are the some-what positive sides of a PC(other then frying with high voltage). While the down side of the list for peecee is infinite, I'll stick with Apple.

I must say I don't have problems with a PC running Linux or Unix, but Microsoft and their insecure, bugged-to-hell, software must be fixed. Sure, not EVERY OS is 100% secure, but X is absolutely on the target.

     I used to be guilty of hardcore Apple zealotry. I have since matured and had more experience with PCs, and taken a more moderate stance. I'll freely state that the versions of the Mac OS which preceded OS X were more or less crap. They worked, but barely. They had an excellent user experience, but from a technical standpoint, they were horrid. Apple has done some (OK, lots of) stupid things over the years. Fortunately for everyone, PC zealots included, they managed to stick it out and hang in there until Jobs returned. Recently, Apple has been doing more smart things than stupid things, which shows lots of promise. Anyhow, moving on.


     First, lemme say thanks for not calling them MACs. That always annoys the snot out of me.  :)
     You argue that Mac users are stupid, or technically unsavvy, or simply deficient in some way. Well, that's true for a lot of Mac users. It's also true for a lot of PC users. And a lot of GameCube owners, and Toyota owners, and statistics will show that it's true of most people who breathe. The vast majority of PC users couldn't build their own computer either. Your argument is true, but specious. Personally, I fully intend to build a gaming PC at some point in the future (read: when I have $500 just laying around).


     Oo, easy piracy. There's an excellent reason to choose an operating system. Your mother must be so proud.


     Y'know, you're a bit out of date to be using this argument. Several years ago, this was a valid argument. Today, it's not. Apple wised up (finally) and switched from using proprietary or little-used plugs and hardware (ADB, SCSI, NuBus) to using industry-standard ones (USB, FireWire, IDE, PCI). There are a few driver-related difficulties, but by and large, anything you can get for a PC, you can get for a Mac.

Con't:


     Ahem. http://www.macraid.com/ I was able to find professional HDTV cards for Macs, but no tuners. You're right on that count.


     You have missed the point. The fact that the Xserve can have up to a quarter terabyte of storage is not a new thing or unique. However, compared to other 1U servers in its price range, it has the most storage space. The Xserve is not intended to be a world-class, amazing, astounding, OMG WTF BBQ 1U server. It's just supposed to be a very nice one that serves to get Apple into the 1U server market. And it's doing that.


     Of course there are people who prefer PCs. That's perfectly fine, they're entitled to their opinions and preferences. I prefer a Mac. Other people prefer Linux, or FreeBSD, or a BeBox. It's not as though it matters. The choice of OS is, for the majority of people, a completely subjective one. I prefer using a Mac because the UI was designed from the ground up to be as easy to use, as consistent, and as coherent an experience as possible. And it shows. Not to mention that, with the advent of Mac OS X, the whole beautiful interface is running on top of a version of FreeBSD, which is a version of a decades-old OS which has been continuously improved for all that time. A bulletproof kernel is good.

     Speaking of OS X's *nix underpinnings, did you know that Windows is the only non-*nix OS left?

     Limited to using specific software? Are you implying that Windows can run Mac software and Linux software? Of course not. You're always limited in what software you can run. Be a bit more specific in your statements. Anyway, I often hear this argument, that more is somehow automatically better. For the most part, the software available on the Mac, especially the Mac-specific software such as shareware, is better-designed and -programmed. For about seven years now, I have used a shareware program called GraphicConverter as my only image viewer. It opens around 150 graphics formats, and saves in around 40. In 7 years, I've never run into a format I couldn't open. It's too bad I don't have 10,000 graphic viewer programs available to me, like a PC user does. But on the other hand, I only need one good one, which I have. This same situation is true for much of the software available on the Mac. There's far less quantity, but on average, far more quality.

     I now reprint a post I made to another message board where this argument was being held with much the same level of skill as it is here:

     I've used Macs for over ten years by choice, and PCs for about four by necessity. Macs *are* more expensive up front. Macs *do* have less software available. The hardware Apple chooses to use *is* inferior to the state-of-the-art PC hardware. These are true statements. They are not particularly damning, however. Excepting games and niche software, Macs are just as well-furnished as PCs. You don't need five hundred MP3 players. You need one good one. This is true of any type of software. Mac software (especially shareware/freeware) is generally of a higher caliber than equivalent PC software.

     A computer's hardware needs to be good enough to do what you want. With the exception of gaming and heavy-duty number crunching (e.g. scientific applications, 3D rendering), virtually all tasks people will use a computer for are not that demanding. Apple's hardware is more than good enough for me to do anything I please, including gaming, in a pleasingly timely manner. True, I can't get 600 FPS out of Quake III, but in all seriousness, who needs to?

     You pay more up front for a Mac, true. However, try configuring a Dell or Gateway with a loadout similar to a G4. There is not an enormous price differential. The PC will be cheaper, probably by several hundred dollars (I have not tried this recently, so I may be off in that figure). That differential is the premium you pay in order to have a beautifully-designed machine that will function perfectly out of the box, and which will probably continue to function perfectly for years. The really impressive price differences come when comparing a Mac's price to a home-built PC's price, which is not really a fair comparison. Most people won't build their own computer. I could buy a car kit for less than a manufactured car, too. But I don't really want to put in the labor to make it work.

     For the propellerheads who denigrate Macs because of the lack of "real power" or a "real interface" (that is, a command line), OS X provides that in the form of the Terminal application. Open it up, and you are presented with the CLI of a tcsh shell. By clicking one check box in the OS X installer program, a full install of BSD Unix (an Apple-modified version of FreeBSD) is placed on your hard drive and made accessible via the Terminal app. Power? I got your power right here! ; ) At the same time, for the non-propellerheads, the CLI is never a factor. It's there if you want it, but you're never forced to use it. The best of both worlds.

     OS X is just a gorgeous OS, in both the visual and technical senses. It provides all the buzzwords that the Mac OS was historically lacking (protected memory, preemptive multitasking, etc.) along with all the benefits of a *nix kernel, all of which is sitting under an interface which was conciously designed to be both easy to use and visually pleasing (although I agree, "lickable" is a silly way to describe it). Go to CompUSA or an Apple Store and play around with OS X for awhile. Even if you get frustrated because it doesn't work like Windows, you'll probably like the look-and-feel of it.

     I use PCs. I'm acceptably fluent in Windows, and can generally make the computer do what I wish. At the end of the day, I'm using a Mac because of a couple of pretty basic reasons. First, the Mac OS has always been designed to be subordinate to the user. When I use Windows, I often get the sense that the computer is doing things that I did not give it permission to do, or that the process of completing some task is unnecessarily complex and difficult. The Mac OS works with me. I can get things done because of the interface, not in spite of it. Second, with very few exceptions, any task is easier in the Mac OS. That is, it takes fewer steps to complete that task. I use a Mac because I find it simpler, cleaner, and more efficient to use than a PC.

Careful with Origin, he can go on for weeks.

So far I've seen far more intelligent thought through reponses with way more reason of why the Mac is overall nicer.

Wow, i'm glad i don't have to make a long post to own origin since he did it to himself again.  LOL!  He had to dis my typing and my "sexually deprivedness" (wtf is up with that?) in order to make himself feel better (about who knows what)!  Guess what?  It only shows how weak and ignorant u are!  It only shows that name-calling is the only thing u can do because u have no FACTS to prove anything!  NO, i'm not talking about facts to prove that i am sexually deprived  :D, i'm talking about facts which prove ur arguement about ur horrid pcs.  I used to think that pcs were good cause they were great gaming machines, but then i realized that that was all they were, and that macs were quickly catching up in that department!  U said u had an endless list of reasons why pcs are better than macs, post one maybe, just one, can u do that???

on secont thaught shut your cakehole

why PC's suck

1: Windows
2: Crap Parts
3: so fucking unorganized unlike mac os
4: blue screen of death
5: crashes constaly
6: There peices of shit
7: Same as above

-SK

The os makes the computer,
if you had a 2ghz pc running win 95, or a 1ghz pc running Xp, which would you rather have?

Take into acount that MacOSX is the best operating system around. Not to mention that the only solid arguements for pc ,are A. Games, and B. manditory software registration from microsoft.
Since i don't spend all my time on the computer playing games it really doesn't matter to me how many games there are or aren't on the mac.
I think its pretty evident that most the people posting on this forum mostly play RS, 90% of my gaming time on my mac is RS, the rest is TacOps. I could give a shit if ultima online was for mac, or even WW2.
The only thing we are begining to see with more software developers making games for macs is the growth of the online gaming community on mac. You also figure that when a game is being devloped for Mac there doesn't have to much much of a consideration for what type of video card the person is running, how much ram they are using or what brand sound card they have in their computer.

Also your point that mac users are dumb seems to be debunked by the stat i provided earlier
"* 70.2 percent of Mac users online have a college degree, compared to 54.2 percent of all Web surfers."
"# Mac users are 58 percent more likely than the general online population to build their own website."
 shocking isn't it, i guess the PC is a more suitable platform for a single mother who doesn't have a degree

Just so you don't get overwhelmed with the number of valid points to attempt to contradict, I'll hand you PC users here a few points:

1.  We Mac users have our fair share of unintelligent people, sometimes vocal ones.  However, since you make up 95% of the market, you've got a hell of a lot more of them  ;)

2.  Yes, Ace and some of the rest of us have nothing better to do than present reasoned arguments to total strangers about the superiority of our computing systems.  But then again, not having to deal with computer crashes gives us a whole lot more free time 8)

3.  It is possible to pirate more and newer games faster on a PC than on a Mac.  Congratulations.

4.  The egg came first, obviously.  However, the first eggs likely did not bear chicks, but some evolutionary ancestor to that animal  ;D


Have a nice day  (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/YaBBImages/beer.gif)

Holy shit.  Some of you guys just go on forever.
So i will share my thoughts:

? PC's are faster.  Wow.. you can load PS6 a half a second faster than me.  Ur cool...

? Macs are solid with a solid operating system that is made by the same people that make the hardware that goes with it.

? Colin and I have a brand new G4 at home and it gets 86 fps average with our geforce4 on medal of honor with 1024x768 and everything on maximum.

? See above then: don't tell me PC's are better for games just because there are more of them.  The good ones are getting ported to mac nowadays, the shit ones (that new 1st person C&C game for example) stay over there, and good ridance.

? In my opinion my brother and I have the best possible computer money can buy, it does everything we could possibly ever need, without all the bullshit programs that PC software companies throw out there.


Cheeze.  (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/YaBBImages/rambo.gif)

i forgot one pro to pcs...
Rapid doesn't have one.
I think i remember reading a benchmark of RTCW a while back in which a dual p4 1ghz with a geforce 3 got 30fps,
while a dual 800 mac with a geforce 3 got 90fps.
I might search for the link, but it the stat came from ID software.
I really would be curious if that is still true, because maybe there is a reason that we see Maximum PC still benchmarking pcs based off Q3. Which is nearing its 4 year birthday.

i'll make my reply as yet another lump of text.


plain and simple, this argument and all the people involved suffer from a lack of knowledge about the other arguments experience/side.    Just as OS X is not   OS 7.8, or whatever release that's pre BSD-adaptation   windows XP is not win98.   Provided that you understand how to operate a PC,  it is 100% possible to have a system that is completley acceptable and will perform beyond your expectations. No it hasnt been prepackaged by an OEM.  No it doesnt *technically* have an OS based off of the most stable Operating System platform in use today.  WinXP is not the horrid unusable/unattractive beast that I've seen it portrayed as by the Mac side of the argument.  The organazational sysetm of the OS is completley based off of the user.  Everything is capable of being manipulated.  My earlier reference to DOS was not aimed to raise it up as the god of OS'. I was simply stating that if there is some sort of windows problem that you're getting a headache with, you can generally work it out via DOS, or the ARC - Automated Repair Console.  
    Yes I admit that via the statistical law of standard deviation that more often than not more stupid people will comprise the whole of a clique. 80% of people who use computers  I beleve shouldnt be allowed to use or own a computer. Give them a commadore64, thats it, maybe a Tandy. That way they can't infect the rest of us with their stupid jabber.  Whatever.
     I say again my largest annoyance with Apple, is that they market computers as if they were appliances. Not a piece of hardware. Since 1998 ( I think ) the release of the iMac spawned the marketing campaign that attempted, and for a large part succeeded in making Apple's chique.  
     Also: Installing a PCI device does not require drivers. Most of the drivers that are required for things such as NICs and Video Cards are already contained within the OS.  You've gotta have one EXOTIC Card not to be able to use it right off the bat. I'm talking like a Wildcat 6210, which i doubt anyone here would have $4000 to lay down on for it.
   The reason Mac's survive today, for the most part that is, is that Apple's campaign to make the machines popular and cool with everyone has succeeded. That and the oppurtunity costs associated with switching e.g. a corporation over from a PC network, to a Mac network. Hell even integrated Mac's into a fully operating Win2kADVServer network is a bitch.    


   For the record I never claimed PC's to be faster. the G4 proccessor, mfg'ed by motorola is from off the top of my head nearly twice as powerful in raw computational ability. With half the transistor count, ( vs AMD or Intel ) something in the neighborhood of 7.1Gflops vs 2.4Gflops on a 2.Ghz Wintel machine.  

  Another economic superiority standpoint, Mac's have got to get cheaper if they are going to compete as heavily with PC's as Apple would like them to.  For $700 I can build a more than decent PC.  for the same price *call me on it if im wrong* I can't exactly get a near comperable Mac.  Mac's CANT catch onto the large mainstream consumer market they're marketed towards 'proffessionals' who work on their own, not on an enterprise level. Though that is what the Xserve technology is attempting to break into.    

btw Yes my mother is proud, more specifically my stepdad is proud of me for pirating software. That way he doesnt have to pay for it.
Ironically I bought my own copy of XP.


yet another also      PC Hardware is not crap lol. If you honestly beleive that, you must think africa is shangri-la.

That doesn't mean much when you are playing with like the other 6 people on GameRanger...I averaged around 110 fps on my dual 3ghz PC with a geforce4 ti+ card in it when IP joining into one of Ace's games or that doof SanFracsicko's (or whatever his name is). The big thing with fps is the host and what kind of lag you are getting.

BTW, I love my line here at UCLA...dslreports.com has it clocked at 25986kb/s Down and 23546kb/s up. I love downloading off of servers at over a megabyte/second and playing MOH:AA with superior frame rates (dip occasionally due to host lagging). We should try playing MOH:AA togther Ace and see what pings we get  :D.

All of the points for and against macs/PC's are compelling, and to each person who contributed something smart his own opinions.

hah,
its funny how Apple makes quality software and hardware for their computers,
and microsoft takes shit and puts a serial number on cd case.
Again, if you want power and elegance in a computer then by all means buy a apple
if you want to play CS2, watch asf porn, and get viruses buy all means build a pc.

well, this is the only question asked so far that i have an answer for that hasn't already been addressed buy others.
(i'll give you a few sec to straighten that out)




the egg came first.
here's the logic: in any living organisim in this world there exists a chance for mutation between one  generation and the next (technicaly this mutation can occur every time that your dna devides, but it is more pronounced from generation to generation) therefor, you would have a hen like reptile(for the sake of argument let's say that it is one mutation from  becoming a chicken) and when that creature layed it's egg, the mutation would occur, changing that egg into a chicken egg.

of course, if you want to look at it another way, the egg came first because it has been around almost as long as sexual reproduction in complex lifeforms(if i remember correctly, that would mean that plants had the first eggs.  yes, plants so have the equivelent of egg cells), and thus many times longer than the chicken

(yes i realize this has NOTHING to do with the topic, but i had to answer that 'unanswerable' question, just to prove that poster wrong)

     I agree with you. I stopped worrying about arguing Mac vs. PC quite a while ago, when I realized that OS choice, at least at home, is almost entirely subjective. For various subjective reasons, and a smaller number of objective ones, I prefer to own and operate a Mac. I know many people who have equally valid subjective and objective reasons for using a PC. I've got nothing against PCs. I'll use one myself when I have to, and I won't even complain much. ;D Microsoft's business practices are not the purest ever used, but hell, it'll bite 'em in the ass eventually. In the meantime, if you like it, by all means, use it. It's no skin off of my teeth. We could all stand to be a lot more tolerant about the others' choice of OS.


     Hehehehe.


     I actually read something recently that had an interesting take on the appliance issue. The author opined that Apple selling the iMac as a pretty object rather than as a purely functional one indicated that the computer industry had become a "mature" industry. Before an industry is mature, function matters more than form. After, the opposite is true, because at that point, any car, or bike, or washing machine, will basically fulfill its function as well as any other. So looks start to matter. Whether this is yet true of the computer industry is debatable, but I thought it was an interesting idea nonetheless.


     There's nothing wrong with that. Apple knows that, for the forseeable future, it's going to be a niche player. So they're simply trying to be the biggest niche player they can be. And they're succeeding quite admirably. As was mentioned earlier, Apple is one of the very few tech companies making money lately. Besides, all gung-ho macho platform bullshit aside, it's good to have an alternative. Not just for economic reasons, but for choice. Hypothetically, if Microsoft did something that made millions of people decide that they didn't want to use Windows anymore (*coughPalladiumcough*), those people have other options, of which one is Apple. This is a good situation.

     Besides that, even the most die-hard of PC users should be cheering Apple on. The more worried Microsoft is about Apple, the better Microsoft's products will be. Competition is good, as usual.

Con't:


     Mmm, this is true, but it's not the whole picture. Macs are a DAMN sight cheaper than they were years ago. For several years now, the top-of-the-line desktop Mac has cost right around $3500. The Mac IIci, released in late 1989, cost $9000. You also get much more bang in a top-of-the-line Mac now than you did then, even allowing for earlier technology. Macs are still expensive compared to PCs, and especially compared to homebuilt PCs, but compared to themselves, they're pretty reasonable.

     Being marketed towards individuals is a good strategy for Apple. In some markets, such as graphics and education, Apple has historically had an advantage, and that's still true to a degree. There are other markets that Apple has just recently begun to gain ground in, such as science and biotech, and possibly engineering (I'm not sure about that last one). Those gains are entirely creditable to the fact that OS X is a *nix and can run the applications that those users rely on, and can run them with better ease-of-use and a more polished interface than was possible with other *nix boxes. Regardless, Apple has targeted the home user with its "switch" campaign. They're playing on dissatisfaction with Windows, and it seems to be working, in that PC users are switching. Many Linux users (read: highly savvy, technically skilled users) have switched to OS X because it's what they've been waiting for for years: a real *nix OS with a beautiful, functional GUI. Works for me. : )

Brain. . .Brain. . .Brain.  . .

Your logic is impeccable, but somewhat excessively verbose.  And a little late as well.

Your eye isn't going to be able to tell a difference between 86fps or 110fps.  Anything over 60 looks the same.  Does help the ping though.

I know Viper, I just like seeing my fps meter at 110 in the lower left of my screen  ;D

1. it's supposed to be verbose.  it's more accurate that way. besides,it makes the logic seem even more impressive ;)
2. yea, it's a bit late, but i responded to it right after i read it, and when you forget to check the forums for a day, alot of posts pile up. so i skimmed the thread to see if any thing really needed moderating, looked for any realy interesting points, and in the process, missed your point.
consider my foot shoved in my mouth =P

the only saving grace for that post was that i brought up the unstated assumption that egg referred to a chicken egg

ok, i'm going to shut up before i start nibbling on my kneecap here

ass,
wouldn't your monitor's refresh rate play a factor in your quest for superior FPS?
jeb
ps. i only got 65 average on my G4, Geforce 3 :(

Nvidia owns you jeb.

also guess what all:  My dad finally went to the Apple store in New York City and bought us a GeForce4 Ti 4600 for our new G4.

I will test it out when I get home in a week or two and post a personal review in which I will show you all benchmarks in many different games and compare it to the GeForce4 MX.

Jeb:  125 mhz refresh rate. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/YaBBImages/icon_bluh.gif)