*DAMN R6 Forum

I just wanted to give eveyone the following link.  Evill was on MacClans chat most of last night, and i've snipped out some of the more interesting pieces and posted it.

you can find it here:

http://www.macclans.com/cgi-bin/ib/ikonboard.cgi?s=06102e757a3a0f56718ef27098fec18f;act=ST;f=1;t=13;st=0;r=1;&

Info on why GameRanger is down, when it will be back up, and why IP joining will be gone.

 Yeah yeah, thanks for posting that Bucc, I am one of the few people most likely who went to the work of reading the whole thing. First off, he says that he would be contacting my ISP if he knew how I bypassed his ban, screw you Evill, if you have permission from the person who runs the server, proxy's are %100 legal, as are all of the other methods used to bypass your simple bans.

There is a ton of crap that he can do to try and prevent myself and others from IP joining, but to bad for him that he only controles GameRanger, and not Rogue Spear. You just simply tab out and quit GameRanger after you have the number of people that you want in your game, then Typhy IP joins, easy as that. The real reason for him wanting to block IP joining has nothing to do with GameRanger, it has to do with the fact that he wants to controle within Rogue Spear what a ban person can do. Scott gives us all this crap "I'm thinking of all the people who don't want you breaking into their games", whenever I join a game I say "Hi, I'm ban from GameRanger, so I had to IP join, would you like me to leave?" Most people tell me I can stay, but some want me to leave, and I do.

The simple fact is, that no matter how hard Scott tries, he only controles GameRanger, and not Rogue Spear. He could make it harder for people to IP join, but there is no way for him to make it impossible.  

Typhy, he said that.  He said you are perfectly free to join games that aren't on GameRanger.  Same with PC users.

What he is against is people using IP to get around everything in GR (locked rooms, limits, ignored users).  He's not talking about just RS either.

Why are people so upset about this?

typhy, when you use RS over GR, you use a different join port than if you played RS over ips,
for gr its 15000, and for normal rs its 2346 or something.
by controling the port, he controls how people play, on his service non the less....

Why?  Because it is not his right to say who we are allowed to let play in our games.  It is OUR choice on who we let play in OUR games.  IP joining isn't a problem and it never has been.  He's simply doing this to further "punish" the ones that have been able to still play RS with their GR buddies.  Too bad he can ban people in GR, but he doesn't have the right to ban people from RS...  His "reasons" are simply that, his and not everyone elses.  Him telling us who we can and cannot play is what's bothering a lot of people in here.  In GR, he's got the right to say that, in RS he doesn't.  End of story.

 The fact is that to have RS games hosted through GameRanger, there has to be some port used, and there is no way to protect a port from being IP joined, he could change the port so that we didn't know what it is, but all that you would have to do is use a tracker through Rogue Spear to track the port.

Rapid, if you are playing RS on his GameRanger, then he does have the right to say some people can't connect through his service.

Typhy, he could get more creative then just changing the port number.  I wonder what he could do using a ssl or something?  Or using multiple ports?  Evill was good enough to program GR, he's probably smarter then most people here (at least with respects to network programing and protocals).

 I think that there would be a conflicting problem if he used mutiple ports, or are you refering to using diffrent ports for diffrent games hosted? That could be an idea, but a port scanner used through RS could still track the one for the givven host, it would just make it a lot harder.

I'm kinda glad that IP joining is gonna be banned...IP joiners tend to crash my games, and it does get annoying when I have an 8 player game open, and someone IP joins, and kinda unbalances the game. Sure, I could lock the server, but i don't want to. If someone left or was disconnected, I'd probably forget to unlock the server, and then nobody joins, and it becomes a big pain in the ass. If you want people to IP join your game, you could create a game room with your IP in it, then host a game manually through RS. Even if this is just a way to restrict banned players from playing, who cares? He's just enforcing the ban by doing that, and I totally support it. Besides, I'd still play with banned people if they asked(or begged) me to host an RS game off of GR. Just my 2 cents...98 more and I can have a dollar!

well here's 48 cents for you. now all you need is 50 more

i don't know why all of you are bitching and moaining again. i swear it's almost like a sport here now, who can whine the loudest.  well it's different this time, you aren' t going to win so you might as well just save your breath.

i talked  with evill today and he made it very clear that he was not coing to change his mind unless something bigger than anything we could pull off happened(he didnt actually say that verbatem, but i'm just making a reasonable inference based on his attitude and the fact that there is always an exception)


also, for those of you who think he is doing this as a punishment for typhy, ben and other banned ppl, it was revealed today that evill actually REQUESTED support for ip join blocking. this has been on the back burner for a while guys. it's not something that evill is doing now to punish the banned.

and he's not just doing this for RS either. he will block ip joining 'on all that games i can"
so, you see you arent the only ones,  and you cerainly arent going to be able to whine your way to a soultion.

evill is going to do this. period.
if you dont like it, go find somewhere else to play



and to evill: if i misquoted or misrepresended your views, statements,etc. please feel free to post a correction

When u crash it has nothing to do with IP joins!  RS is also made for IP joins and GR is a service that is not supported by all RS versions. and by the way GR does nothing more then to IP join ppl but u can see it! thats all! It scans the IP of host and auto transfare the IP to the joining computer + Port : thats all , when u  IP join, u do the same but manually!

So when u crash , its is not a fault of any IP joiners b/c then it were the fault of evry body who join you! But it can be that your computer can handle so many ppl. that is a reason why it crahes when more ppl join!

 Actually, if you read all of that text, you would see that he says that he is removing IP joining because it only helps people who are ban, and people who have PCs, and he doesn't want to help them. Some machines work better for hosting than others, back when I would host with my 867, I would crash all the time, with my new powerbook, I can take 10 people, play for hours and not worry about crashing, IP joining doesn't effect that at all.

The prob is that i am also a PC user - anf because my mac cant handle the most new games i have to switch to PC and to join via IP.  SO I NEED THIS OPTION TO STAY CONNECTED TO MY CLAN!

This is gonna suck, because no one cares if i wanna join a game, so they won't put in the extra effort to make it possible for me to IP join :(

Typhy, that was yesterdays chat.  Today he sepnt most of the day there as well.  He mentioned that this was on the back burner for a long time, and he'd gotten quite a few requests for it (including one from a guy that was in the chat with us).

He said this had nothing to do with you or any of the other bans specifically, but when asked about you guys or PC's, he said that people banned and PC users are not his concern.  Which is true.  If he kicked you, why should he care if you can get into games or not, and he doesn't support PC's, just Mac's.  And the only people that were fighting for it were the ones that want you and Ben in games, or those talking about PC users.  All he told them was that they could start a normal game not in GR for that.  

Think about it guys.  All this means is that you can't be hosting a game on GR, and have PC users (or those banned) get in your games.  It also means that those guys on your ignore list can't get in, or if your game is full on GR.  And don't forget that it isn't all about RS.  There are plenty of other games on GR as well.

games that are played on GR fall under his jursdiction. there fore he has the right to block it, we all agreed to it in the TOS. If you break it, not being able to ip join should be more insentive to not get banned.

 Thats easy for you to say Jeb, you're not the one who is sitting here ban. I am willing to acept that he doesn't want me on his service, that is all fine, but I am not willing to acept him changing things on/about it to make it so that I can't play Rogue Spear. I really didn't want things to come to this point, but he's givven me no choice but to return, those of you who are my closest friends know who I am on GameRanger, and the others of you don't need to, just look at the little newbie owning everyone in RS. By the way Scott, under my agreement with my ISP Proxy servers are in no way ilegal.

I used IP joining for other reasons back when I was on GameRanger, and I am sure that many of you do them also, reasons such as to get clanmates out of games for cbs. If you've lost the password to a cb game after returning from a crash, you may need to IP join it, the fact is, that he can't make it impossible, but he can sure make it a heck of a lot harder. Scott's saying that ban people and PC people aren't his concern is much like me saying that I shouldn't care if Australia vanishes in a nuclear cloud sence I don't know anyone there, and I live some 11,000 miles away ( or somthing like that). Maybe IP joiners is diffrent, perhaps IP joiners is more like me saying that I shouldn't care if a Prison get's blown up by bombs. I use examples like this to show how stupid Scott saying that really is, Just because you dislike someone doesn't mean that you should want to take their rights to do things that they like away. I use examples of death because if I am ban, and am forced to leave RS, thats pretty much like death in the RS world.

His saying that he is just responding to what people have asked him to do, ( Here comes another lame example by Typhy, brace youself ), is like if 3 people said that they wanted me to be shot by deer rifles at 150 yards, and someone went ahead and did it, saying that they're only responding to what people want, there is always the ocasional person who's opinons differ from the majority on an issue like this, if Scott wants an acurate reading on what the average RS player wants about IP joining, then he should start a poll at GameRanger.com about it, not just listen to the few selective people that have commented on it. Next time that someone mentions "Right" in their post, I am going to totally freak out, we and everyone else who is with me against Scott, has already said that it is in his rights to do whatever he wants to GameRanger, thats not the question in hard, the question, is wether it's fair or not.

-Typhy

the problem in your argument, typhy, is that while the opinion of the average rs player may be to let ip joining stay, the average user couldnt care less, and probably has no clue how to ip join in the first place

Bucc if he did want to change it olny to stop people who are on ignore from joining games... he would make it an opption but he doesnt!!!

 Brain that has to be the stupidest post that I've ever seen you make, this is a RS problem, not an "Average User" problem, I sugest that you make this post either after the hangover from drinking to much is over, or be that not the case, when you are a little more awake.

Bah. The Part Evill and I got along with eachother at (the end... like at 2am-4am PST) was editted out! :) We were correcting people's spelling errors..


Ben

Sorry Ben, but it was one hell of a long text file to edit.  Plus, some of it didn't make sense with the pm's going on.

Colin, you are still missing the big picture.  He's had complaints about a glitch (exploit if you like that better) in GR that lets ignored users get into games.  It also allows users to get into full games.  He's fixing this glitch (as far as he was concerned, the controls you use in GR should be the only ones you need to worry about).  Now, the only argument close to valid that anyone has presented to make it optional is so that PC users and banned users can join games.  Both of which he is against, and from his point of view, he should be against.  Giving you the option only lets you have a way to get someone around a ban.  Why in the world would he want to do that?  What is a good reason for making it an option that would fit in with the GameRanger model?

Typhy, bad examples.  you were banished.  Kicked out of the country; deported.  Not killed.  When you are in exile, you can't go back to have a beer with your old friends, they have to come to you.  Scott isn't taking away your ability to play RS, he's taking away your ability to play games hosted on GR.  Big difference.  What he's doing is saying that anyone that wants to play with Typhy (or anyone else banned) can, but can't do it on GR.  So, just like anyone else that's been banished in real life, your friends either go with you, or visit now and then, or say good-bye.  As for your sneaking back on, that's just like sneaking back into a country you've been exiled from.  The cost is usually much higher if you get caught.  

Most of the rest of you also forget that RS isn't the only game on GR.  And maybe some of the complaints came from other places.

that was the point i was trying to make typhy.  rs  isnt the only game out there, but we shure as hell act like it is.  that's just like us americans. a large percentage of us often think of the world in terms of  how it affects the u.s. only, forgetting the 5.7 odd billion people on the planet. the only difference between the attitudes on gr ans americans is the numbers

how about trying to think about what point i am trying to make before insulting me next time, ok?

 (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/YaBBImages/shocked2.gif) NO IP JOINING? wtf. i want a refund. ahhh what am i talking about.  (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/YaBBImages/offtopic.gif) anyway back to the point, IP joining is cool, and it's out Macsoft-given right!!! but i don't use it that much but stilll blah i feel as if my rights are being taken away. Now here comes the post from one of you asses to make me feel stupid and totally discredit my post. In advance, STFU!!!!

even though we arent the only ones out there Evill seems to take pleasure in either banning us or getting us riled (i cant spell) up. without IP joining he is cutting all the banned people out of game ranger for good... not to mention pc users. and without IP NADS just lost 2 ppl  (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/YaBBImages/hm.gif) :-[

wow, really?  he's keeping all the people that he kicked out of gr from joining gr games??  why would he want to do that??(http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/YaBBImages/ukliam2.gif)

sorry, i know that there is already another thread for this, but thought that the sarcasim was called for. people seemed shocked that evill would do something to keep banned users or pc users out of gameranger.  why in the hell this would shock anyone is beyond me.