*DAMN R6 Forum

After a recent converstion (after being ignored for 10 minutes) Evill said that he intended  to prevent IP joining of GR hosted Rogue Spear games.

I'm aware that some people use IP joining to get around room limits and ban lists and can hurt bandwidth. There are simple ways to prevent this like locking and passwording the room.

IP joining can be useful for playing with PC users (Which is personally why I'm pissed) and on a lesser scale getting clan mates for CBs.

I really don't believe IP joining is much of a problem and is a lot more helpful then hurtful. I really believe it being an option is the best solution.

Now I'm aware this isn't going to be any kind of official poll. I'm just looking to gauge the response from the majority. (Which, BTW, Evill claims he listens too.)

There is a poll in the BL public fourms... vote there plz... (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/YaBBImages/adminowns.gif) so you know what to do...

That thread is on a different topic Snake.

I'm looking to get a poll of people who would like to see IP joining as an option so I can show Evill and maybe he'll actually listen.

Ip joining yes. It isnt the job of Gr to prevent ppl from ip joining youre game. Its youre comp, if you dont want ip joining on youre host then boot the ip joiner's or lock youre game in rs. But i think Evill should stay off IP joining, its my comp and my host, and im in charge of my host. That means that ppl that are banned on GR can ip join in, why not ? Its my goddam comp and host, and not evills comp. Preventing ip joining is like allowing scott to put a lock on Youre own computer, you cant even let the ppl join that you want to.

can someone tell me how kevill could do that? i thought that ip joining was totaly seperate from gr

He could make it so you can't get the IP's of the game on GR (using ICMP logger, or whatever other people use), but he can't get rid of IP joining completely. You can always just put your IP address in your game name if you want people to IP join, but I don't know how Evill would react to that.

He can block IP joining on the GR port.

So vote to make it an option!!!

He'll just change the 15000 port to something different and won't tell nobody what it is.  Easy as that.  I agree with Dragonic on our computers and our choice of allowing IP joiners.  It shouldn't be up to Evill to control who joins our games.  Sure he has good intentions by saying he wants to help out those poor gamers that dislike IP joining, but that's 5% that feel like that.  95% feel it's their own right to allow who they want in their games.  GR is simply an application to allow more people to join YOUR game, but most definately you are allowed to let anybody you please play in your hosted game.  Him stepping in to stop people from IP joining, is his way to fire back to those banned that have been still able to play RS with other GR users.  He is one hasty character and looks like he'll do anything to fight back and get his way and ruin you(He feels since you guys can still IP join while banned, you don't feel the wrath he tried to bring down upon you).  Goes to show that too much information in these forums can backfire on you...  

I wonder how UbiSoft would feel about somebody making it hard to join their game they produced and had intended for ALL to enjoy without a dictator telling them who they can and cannot let play...

I'm pretty sure IP joining wasn't a issue discussed when they gave Evill the right to have that game for GR.  I'm sure UbiSoft would like as many people as possible playing the game in any way possible with no restrictions of any sort.  Sure Evill can ban people from GR, but not from RS...

rapid, if ubi didn't give scott the right to use RS on gr. then we woulda stoped playing RS along time ago. its not hindering how people play, gamerooms have set limits for a reason, so do locked rooms. the only person who is effected is the IP joiners.
jeb

Nice Try Jeb, yet you brought nothing to the table.  Try and put more thought in what you post.

GR is GR and not RS.  RS is totally separate from GR.  You can't mix apples with oranges and Evill can't control something he didn't create.  He can control GR, but not RS.  It is OUR choice on who we let play in our games.

What we old timers used to do a long time ago before the IP logger came out was make a GR room with our IP addy, then manually create a game. Those in the game would idle in the room and everyone would be happy. It is rather simple, make a manual game and use port 2346 (I think that is it) to join.

 Yes, Sin brings up a good idea, that is also what we used to do when we wanted to play against PC players.

If it were possible for Evill to make an option like "Allow IP Joiners," that would definitely be the way to go.  There are hosts out there like NH who's game names' are like "if you want me to crash, ip join." or something like that.  Maybe we could ask Evill if he could try this... (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/YaBBImages/hm.gif)

how would he go about blocking ip joiners? first off, he could change the gameranger port, but then i have a program called etherpeek, and it analyzes all the packets along the network, with that program, all i would do is start capturing packets and join the game, and then look at what port it captured, easy as that. So what could he do to "block ip joiners". I mean, there is no way to filter it, because all that the people in gr are diong is ip joining, except gr is doing it for them.

uh, wow rapid read my post (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/YaBBImages/shocked2.gif)

anyhow...
Gameranger is a Gamefinding service, made by scott kevill, you agreed to the TOS when you first logged into GR. evill's reason for blocking ip joining is because people make the sizes of gamerooms for a reason, plus it punishes people who are banned. you can cry your big sappy 27 year old eyes out all you want rapid, but you have no say in what he is going to do with his program. besides i heard the next time you dl a update when you login to gr, you won't beable to ip join. i doubt he even cares what you think rapid, especialy you. if you don't like the way he runs HIS program make your own. I'm tired of listening of all this bitching.

xo, i think he plans on blocking the ipjoining feature of the port, nothing to do with the ping or retrieving a ip

Jeb theres no reason that it could not be made an option.

evill already said he would put a end to it, debating it here won't achive anything

 Jeb, there is no point in debating almost any of the stuff that we debate here, we're not saying that we can change it sence Scott cares not for the users, we're debating wether it's a good idea or not.

Jeb u ever try to make a difference with something you care about?

Now vote for it to be optional and maybe we'll get some kind of reaction.

first off, if there is a chance to make a difference i'd take it. But there isn't, evill is gonna stop ip joining, and i've talked to him about it a few times, and he seems pretty deturmaned to. the only difference i'd make by casting a vote would be to see who's opinion wins the poll, not whats going to happen with ip joining.

Back off Jeb dude. Jeb was there during the whole Evill conversation, along with me. I know Evill is serious when he says changing the rule is not an option. We won't get a reaction, because, frankly, who cares? I mean, I'm banned, I should care most, right? Frankly, I don't... When I play, its always off of gr host anyway. What difference will it make? It won't!


No one will support it enough for this "reaction".

Ben

This is the worst online community I've seen.

At least other communities support each other.

We're not going to get anything done if everyone has already decided that they're not going to try.

When evil stopt the ip joining by and cause, there will always be some smartass who finds out how he did it. And creates a way around it. When he bans ip Joining on the Gr port hes just some crazy fuck, its my comp and he doesnt have the rights to change anything on it. If he bans ip Joining on the gr port he invades my computer and kinda changes my system. And he doesnt have any right to do so. remember Port 15000 is still youre port!
 
And you can always create a game outside gr and give the ip to the ppl you want to join, wheter there banned or not. Its youre game then and gr doesnt have to do a thing with it. Also the port changing isnt an option, its easy to find out to which port hes switched.

Uuuuh.  Try what, and why? Why would anyone care if we could IP join anywhere? I'm banned; I'll have no way to play on gr all when this goes down, you would think I would attempt to fight it. You swear we aren't a community because we will not fight this, I'm banned, I don't care about this, why would anyone else?! I mean, it would effect me and Typhy the most. Why support something you don't care about is what I'm trying to say I guess. Evill will start charging for gr, he talked about it briefly in Macclans, and when that goes down, we will see the communities reaction. I, for one, can not afford to pay money for gameranger. A community deals with things that matter, maybe we should start working on this? Maybe we should talk about where we will all go after Gameranger starts charging, or if we will go. The IP joining will have little if no affect on us, so why not deal with the real issues?

Ben

Kevill has been debating whether or not to charge for GR since before PsYcO was born well over 20 months ago...but he knows that if he charges money, he will be put out of business due to a lack of people coming on to GR. Face it, most of you are kids and most of your parents wouldnt want to pay money so that you could sit in front of your computer and play games all day.

Secondly, if you would shut your flap Ben, you could test Evill's statement that he would let you back on when the firestorm simmers down. Nearly every post for the last day or so that I have seen you post says "oh poor me, I am banned and will never get back on, wah wah wah."

In conclusion, Evill will never charge for GR (if he wanted to, he would have long ago when GR hit its all time popularity...look back at his own statistics about log ins per day and games player per day) and shut up about being banned for now. If and when everything settles down and he still has you banned, you have a valid argument to bitch and moan as much as you want.

assassin, no, he said when the whole "Ben is banned" issue cools off, and people stop being mad at him... Well, I'm not getting pity, I'm making a point. He says we suck as a community because we don't make a poinbt to change stuff, well, i was pointing out that the people who the stuff he wants to change affects the most don't even care... So why would anyone else?

Ben

Thats one of the more ignorant things I've heard on this board. You would think you would want as many people supporting you as possible. People should care because it affects people's ability to play. Playing is what GR is all about.

Why don't you care? Maybe if you could stay on the subject we are talking about.

IP joining has nothing to do with GR being a pay service.

People shouldn't just let Evill take away a viable playing option. Now if it was optional...

Maybe you should think about what you are saying.

colin, why don't you explain a good reason that he should make it optional?  if evil blocks ip joining, it does not effect your playing rs in any way.  you can play rs anytime you want.  

what he will be doing is stoping you from joining games that are full, or that are locked, or where the host has you ignored.  he's also stopping anyone banned from joining into a game hosted on gr.  or a pc user from joining a game hosted on gr.  it's really very simple.  if you don't like it, don't host on gr.  

dragonic, he could block ip joining in a few different ways, none of which has anything to do with your computer.  face it, all he'd have to do is write a randomizing script to give a random port for each game hosted (assigned when the host starts the game).  then, only gameranger would know the correct port for that game, and only people connecting through the gr client would be able to find it.

sure, there are a few that can use eitherpeek and figure it out.  but not many people have it or could use it.  and it would only work for the time that the game you checked was active.  if you did a port scan on it (think how long it would take to port scan 20000 ports) and think how much you would lag the game while doing it.

that's just one way he could do it.  there are more.  i got that method from a cool program that we worked on last year.  randomizing the port is great for security.

Thanks for clearing up what I tried (unsuccessfully) to coherently say...  Colin, yes, Evill asked us if we could come up with a single reason used in IP joining, and, unfortunately, the best reason was if someone idled in a room. He said he'd fix gr to force it to kick all users from the room after 2 minutes, even if they had started playing and quit. There is no good excuse for IP joining. Also, Evill named off several good reasons for no IP joining on gr... It will keep banned users from playing, it will hinder people with aimbots, etc... I didn't want to go off topic really, but, it feels like theres not a topic to discuss.

Ben

It stops me from playing with PC users on GR.

A Mac user can IP join a game on the Zone.

A PC user will not able to join a Mac game because...

A) The software doesn't work
B) The host of the gaming service has decided it is more convientient to eliminate the possibility then make it an option..


uhhh..B

so colin, you are making this much of a fuss because pc users can't join games that you host on gameranger.

first, how often does this actually happen?  i'm assuming you are only talking about games that you, yourself host, because i don't want pc gamers on some of mine.  so that means you have to invite them through some other manner, besides gameranger.  if you are inviting them through aim, the phone, or whatever else, then why not just organize your whole game that way, and not host it on gr?  nobody is stopping you from doing that.  

second, gameranger is a mac only game service.  most of the community seems to like that (and i'm not just talking rs here).  but more important, that's what evill wants, and it's his system, we only play there.  so it doesn't matter what gamespy or the zone or gamesmith do.  this is his app and he doesn't care about pc users.  you make it sound like there is something wrong with him excluding pc users.  it's not like there aren't pc services that exclude macs.  so what.

you are right, it stops pc users from playing on gr.  but gr isn't meant for them, and you (and they) have other options.  if you really want to play with the pc users, it's probably easier for you to find a game on one of their hosts, not them finding games here.  

your point is pretty weak.  pc users were never meant to use gr, or play on gr hosted games.  just because they could doesn't make it right, and doesn't mean that they should.  it also doesn't stop you from playing rs on gr or with pc users.  it just means that it wont happen like it did before.  like assassin said, use gr like you would mag or macclans.  just leave your ip and let people join that way.  

look at it this way.  evill is solving more problems then he is causing.  especially since he doesn't see pc users not being able to join gr hosted games as a problem.  do you have any better points?

Maybe if anyone paid attention to my point.

IT SHOULD BE AN OPTION!!! THEN EVERYONE WOULD BE HAPPY!!!

i heard it, maybe you are missing it.  why should he care about pc users or banned users.  from his point of view, keeping the banned users out has to be a bonus.  why should he go through the trouble of making it optional just so they can get around the ban?  as for pc users, maybe you can't get a point.  why would he care about them?

as for making everyone happy, who's everyone?  you?

I apologize if someone already said this but yesterday, me, xoclipse, a few other people, and Evill had a long chat. I don't feel like explaining what happened, but the ultimate conclusion was that it there would be no more ip joiners after the next gr update, and he certainly wouldn't be affected by any polls. Think about it guys, if a little poll made him change his mind, you guys would think you had absolute control over him and GameRanger, and sadly, you do not.

colin,
it doesn't matter whatyou think, he said he already put it in the code, and the next update that rolls around = no ip joins. not that it concerns you, since you only seem to play on your host.
evill did say he was thinking about blocking ips since before we started playing rs, but he didn't think anyone was lame enough to ip join.
quit being simpithetic to the bannies, there is no reason that they should be playing on games hosted off gr, since they are banned from it. there is nothing stoping you from using mag, or macclans client to host games were people can ip join.
jeb
ps. get over it

Colin, PC users can play while you are on your Mac. Just don't use a GR port. Don't get on GR to play with them, give them your ip and port number without gr software, and it will work. It's no biggie.

Ben

Didn't say this already in another thread,  or was nobody listening then? What would change the situation now?

Nothing, which is why this thread is pointless.

Ben

I have to quote myself to bring back the answer to your damn problems...

I will miss ip joining. I mean when someone is doing that mod you just absolutley adore and they are all full. That pisses me off. Or when your best freind on GR is hosting a game and it is full. That pisses me off!

ok, it's obvoius that this thread is gioing nowhere , and right now all were doing is rearguing the same thing we said 3 posts ago.  i think we all agree that we cant do anything about the ip joining being stopped, so we should just stop talking about it.
with that said...
 (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/YaBBImages/adminowns.gif)