*DAMN R6 Forum

Being the news junkies and current event debaters that we are, I am surprised nobody has posted up on the current middle east debacle.  A few right wingers have already declared the world to be in WWIII, I think we are one wrong shot away, and then there is a whole other lot of the world that seems to have no clue as to wtf is going on.

Basically Israel bombing the shit out of lebanon. Hezbola shooting rockets into Israel. Israel demanding Syria influence Lebanon to move it's military into southern Lebanon to control Hezbola. Israel threatens Syria to sway more influence. Iran declares pact with Syria that if attacked it will retaliate upon Israel. Basically if Iran does what it does nukes are a near option. US would not be happy. That is the short story of that one.

Now, we have the bad hair looney in N. Korea shooting off salvos at his will. We pretty much scoff because the rockets don't work. Japan and S. Korea pissed since the ones that work can hit them. Japan now considers preemtive strikes that would pretty much let Kim Jong Bad Pajamas consider using his nukes on S. Korea which has a lot of US soldiers. They fry, US will sure as hell make sure a lot of starving Koreans pay.

Dateline Africa. We already had the movie "Blackhawk down". Well, now the Muslims extremists have taken over somalia entirely and have pretty much created an african Taliban. Ruwanda is still chop chop rape rape and basically all of it's neighbors are fighting ghost wars within the country for influence and control. U.N. is thinking about or basically doing what it does, "talk", as the situation is going hell in a hand basket.

South America. VIVA Venezuela and that crazy asshat that runs it. He wants to sell U.S. F16's to iran to piss off the U.S. Chavez scares his people into thinking invasion by the US for oil, and is basically now funding the Cuban gov't. He is now considering funding North Korea and allying with Iran against us, some new fucked up version of the Warsaw Pact I guess. Mexico averts electing a socialist/ marxist Chavez guy, Chile does, maybe other South American elections to follow. Oh, and Chavez is willing to support any action, economic or strategic against US, Britain and anyone who doesn't like nut jobs.

So after all that i look around and go whoa. Time to move to an island that is going to get washed away by a tsunami or global warming.

How's your Monday?

see you on the front lines, Fah.

I'll be the first one to invade mexico and retake Los Angeles

I'm going to sit on my swedish ass laughing at you all under the red sky.

Don't laugh too long... the fallout will make your teeth fall  :-X

for all the jokes we make, im hoping someone who knows a bit more about the current middle east situation gives us the short version.

And Fah, you'll never make it out of Hawaiian Gardens, homes.

Could this be the start to what will be Armageddon?

"Armageddon is actually a battle. According to the Bible it’s the battle where God finally comes in and takes over the world and rules it the way it should have been ruled all along. After Armageddon comes 1000 years of peace and plenty.

The reason it’s called Armageddon is because it in a place called the valley of Megiddo is modern day Israel. Armageddon means mount of Megiddo in Hebrew." (http://www.countdown.org/faq/)

I don't get how this Dictator calls Bush all sorts of names and the US does nothing to him. I mean, we all call Bush names, but it is very different when a head of a State does it. The least, you could call your ambassador over and break relations, or a threat/carry out an invasion before this mad-man Chavez continues to build up his military.... What is going on here, why is the US so passive with him? Is it because of the oil?

In this short clip, you hear Chavez calling Bush all sorts of names: Insults (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLw7-pQv_L4&mode=related&search=)

In this other short clip, you see how "civilians" are receiving training to prepare them for a guerrilla type of war in case of an eventual US lead invasion. Over 500.000 civilians are getting this training TODAY: Civilian Training (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGvfYRPuc_4&mode=related&search=)

On top of that, about 30.000 of these civilians will each have a Austrian Steyr Stg.58 - license built FN FAL which are being passed down from the military, since Chavez has now purchased 100.000 new kalashnikov AK-rifles for them.

The old F-16, as mentioned in the original post, are being sold to Iran, and the newest Russian Migs-29 will replace them. These Migs will be able to reach Washington D.C. and most of the East Coast US cities, with a deadly load of bombs.... (Chavez doesn't want to depend on US military technology, so he's making all these changes). Chavez is also purchasing from Russia, their best Helicopters, Tanks, Artillery, etc.

In this Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoG9yaqp4vU&mode=related&search=) , you will hear in Spanish, how Chavez is affecting US policy in the world and in its own territory. Even if you don't understand what is said... just looking at it.. gives you an idea!

"Amenaza Nuclear" – Nuclear Threat..... Watch Chavez in reascent meetings with all of the top US enemies... Castro, Kadaffi, Chinese, Iran’s and North Korea’s leaders, etc. in what many believe is a huge effort to get a hold of nuclear technology - since Venezuela is rich in uranium, deuterium, hydrogen and tritium (essential to making the bomb)... With Iran, they are putting together a nuclear reactor which Venezuela bought to Argentina. This facility is being built in the Amazon to produce enriched uranium (A-Bombs)... and what is sad, is that no one talks about that in the US.

In this other Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZ45e8w0AKs&mode=related&search=) (this time subtitles are available), Chavez warns Bush if there's an attempt on his life....


People, this Chavez guy is very dangerous.. and if nothing is done NOW to stop him, the free-world will regret it!


Finally, read this Article (http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:wFVgLgszumkJ:www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/opinion/14194451.htm+smartmatic+investigation&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1&client=safari) - In it , you will read how Chavez is trying to gain influence in the way Americans vote and elect their representatives, through a company Venezuela owns. This company has already handled a few minor elections in the US... including that of the city of Chicago, etc. The software could (has) lead to a manipulated result of an election toward candidates Chavez likes, through a software hax which is very hard to detect (impossible thus far - this is complicated to explain in brief words, but it has already happened). Even though the Venezuelan Govt ran out to sell its share of the company, just to save face, many believe it has only found others to run it in its name.

Enough for now.. I could go on forever on Chavez.... I hate his guts.

When i stop vominting in disgust revulsion, anger and embarrassment for our leadership..I will post.
It will be long...it will be passionate, and it just might be slightly over the top.

Fair warning.

So, what happends after a 1000 years? When it hits the 00:00 to 1001th year, we will plunder and rape people?

Jokes aside, I can't be bothered to discuss this on another forum. Might come in later in the discussion though.

Technically yes..

After that thousand years of peace and quiet, satan is set loose, yet ONCE more, to wreak havok for a while longer...and hes allowed to corrupt a few more people...

THEN comes the Final final Judgement where he and all the people who were naughty the first go arounds, and in the period After the thousand years of peace..are all sentenced to doom,bundled into a Vista package, and sent to burn in Hell forever..

Amen.

ps.no shit

Don't forget about Y2K either. 

There's always Antarctica.  All we need is a warm shelter, a decent network, some fast computers and a hydroponic system and Munchos®.  Could live happily for a while.



But seriously...Georgie Boy is having a hard enough time tying his shoes in the morning....with all the headaches he receives on a daily basis about Iraq, gas prices, his intelligence, the crazy Israelis, the crazier Palestinians/Iranians/Lebanese.....  its a wonder he hasn't completely popped his cork at this point.  Right now the world is like my stomach after a 10 pack and fries at White Castle.  Sure it sounded like a good idea when I ordered it, but someone better pour some Mylanta over the top or a giant shit storm will insue.

I can't really post on this stuff, i think similarly to Shiex i cannot find the worlds to even begin to express my disgust at the moment. Enough to say that the newspaper this morning almost made me throw up in revulsion.
How the International community is willing to stand by while Israel bombs Lebanese civilians is beyond belief. I do not condone the firing of rockets into Israeli territory but to attack civilians in retaliation? it is f*cking disgusting and just thinking about it now is getting me really f*cking angry.

Bush i know your desperately in need of the Jewish vote in the US but my god pull your f*cking finger out and help stop this bullshit. Our retard of a Prime-minister hasn't got the balls to do anything that might upset your stupid ass administration.

As for the israeli government. How dare you demand sympathy and support when you commit such atrocities. You behave no better than those who oppressed you so many years ago.

Hizbollah is a terrorist group - they use violence to get their own way and appear to have no quarms attacking civilians.
THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT ISRAEL HAS THE RIGHT TO USE ITS US SUPPORTED MILITARY TO MURDER INNOCENT LEBANESE CIVILIANS.

As an Israeli woman said - "The greatest show of strength is the sign of peace"

Excuse me im off to chuck my guts up.

Yeah BFG....one of Bush's major problems is that he doesn't realize that he already has been voted in for the second time.....politics for popularity mean shit at this point.

That is true for his re-election, Cell, but they still have to be careful with what they do 'else the House & Senate will find themselves overwhelmingly democratic (or 3rd party?) in November. 

My thinking is Israel is almost looking for a fight which drags in Iran, so they have a legitimate excuse to obliterate their nuclear capability before they have real nuclear capability.  And having US troops in the middle of Israel and Iran just makes it better for Israel.

Anyway, long story short, im going to move to New Zealand and live with Tigah. 

part of my reluctance to respond, is the bias that exists agains America over Iraq. SO..for the purposes of focus and clarity, these are TWO separate issues, historically and practically..and will utterly ignore those comparisons, or bleeeding of one subject over the other. Palestine and Isreal has NOTHINg whatsoever with our failures in Iraq, so to continue to have a focused discussion on isreal, keep the two separate...please.
(although they may be somewhat politically related, historically, they are not)

Im workin on my longer post, but i had to interject..at this point, there are two fears.. One military, and one Religious that prevents the  US from speaking out or intervening. One of those fears relates to collective american guilt over our mishandling of Iraq, and world opinion related to our motivations.. do your best to keep them separate..we're talking about Lebanon, Syria, Isreal, and Iran, Hamas and Hezbollah...

1. Due to the utter rage isreal felt in the early 70s when we condemned their Dimona nuclear plant and isreals nuclear ambitions, our intelligence is afraid that in the event that we cross Isreal in a serios matter, that they have preassembled nukes on american soil. Some analysts say that threat has already been verbalized, and is understood to be true. If we cross them in a big way, BOOM...we lose american cities..in a matter of minutes, with nothing to be done to prevent it... hence the unlimited aid, arm support, carte blanch treatment in the face of global outrage, and loans totalling twelve TRILLION that have not seen ONE CENT of repayment. Yes we need a 'democratic hedge' in the islamic world, but that is but a smokescreen to cover the real underlying reasons for our support. Its just that that one is less scary and much more palatable to the american people...playing on the patriotism of the democratic dream..

and 2. Interpretation of the bible by End Time Evangelists push the verses in the bible that state that the enemies and those that do not protect isreal after the diaspora (return of jews to their holy land) will result in the the imminent and total destruction. We (thru church) have been conditioned to feel empathy with the jews as "The Chosen People" despite their formalized contempt for GOY (or gentile) nations..which are as cattle, and only worthy of slaveship. The Talmud preaches that 1 jew life is worth a thousand goy, and that after the return of Jerusalem to world seat power status, each jew will have 2800 GOY slaves...

Some can say that the treatment of the palestinians is deserved n account of katyusha rocketings, and suicide bombings, but in reality, the contempt of the jews for the palestinians is FORMALIZED, and embedded in their national thought process. They stand in the way of a jewish Holy land undivided geographically and uncontested politically and militarily.

Here are some quotes from past and prestne leaders that give some insight into their racial position relative to the Palestinians..

"We must expel Arabs and take their places."
-- David Ben Gurion, 1937, Ben Gurion and the Palestine Arabs, Oxford University Press, 1985.

"We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population."
-- David Ben-Gurion, May 1948, to the General Staff.   From Ben-Gurion, A Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978

"There is no such thing as a Palestinian people... It is not as if we came and threw them out and took their country. They didn't exist."
-- Golda Meir, statement to The Sunday Times, 15 June, 1969.

"How can we return the occupied territories? There is nobody to return them to."
-- Golda Meir, March 8, 1969.

"This country exists as the fulfillment of a promise made by God Himself. It would be ridiculous to ask it to account for its legitimacy."
-- Golda Meir, Le Monde, 15 October 1971

"[The Palestinians] are beasts walking on two legs."
-- Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin, speech to the Knesset, quoted in Amnon Kapeliouk, "Begin and the 'Beasts,"' New Statesman, June 25, 1982.

"(The Palestinians) would be crushed like grasshoppers ... heads smashed against the boulders and walls."
-- Isreali Prime Minister (at the time) Yitzhak Shamir in a speech to Jewish settlers New York Times April 1, 1988

"Israel should have exploited the repression of the demonstrations in China, when world attention focused on that country, to carry out mass expulsions among the Arabs of the territories."
-- Benyamin Netanyahu, then Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister, former Prime Minister of Israel, speaking to students at Bar Ilan University, from the Israeli journal Hotam, November 24, 1989.

"The Palestinians are like crocodiles, the more you give them meat, they want more"....
-- Ehud Barak, Prime Minister of Israel at the time - August 28, 2000. Reported in the Jerusalem Post August 30, 2000

"If we thought that instead of 200 Palestinian fatalities, 2,000 dead would put an end to the fighting at a stroke, we would use much more force...."
-- Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak, quoted in Associated Press, November 16, 2000.

"It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism, colonialization, or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands."
-- Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of militants from the extreme right-wing Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, November 15, 1998.

"Everybody has to move, run and grab as many (Palestinian) hilltops as they can to enlarge the (Jewish) settlements because everything we take now will stay ours...Everything we don't grab will go to them."
-- Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of the Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, Nov. 15, 1998.

"Israel may have the right to put others on trial, but certainly no one has the right to put the Jewish people and the State of Israel on trial."
-- Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, 25 March, 2001 quoted in BBC News Online

So if anyone wants to know..THAT is the reason for the unabated punishment, occupation and torture of the palestinian people..the bombings and kidnappings are just the excuse..

So this attempt at pushing us into war with Iran has more to do with ISREALS feelings of superiority and religious entitlement than it does american support. We are simply blackmailed into that support. So dont paste the one into the other. The American religious lobby  does not support the overt aims for Zionism, but Do have a tendency to be conditioned (from early sunday school) to be highly afraid of what happens to america if we dont support them.

ISreal is CERTAINLY looking for a fight with Iran (at our expense of course) and they were outraged last month when the JOint Chiefs presented the war game outcomes for that virtual war. 355 runs, and we won ONCE. In every single simulation, Chinia and Russia raced to Irans Aid to protect the 70 and 40 billion dollar investments recently made( respectively) ... China has signed a FORMAL agreement of protection similar to the ones we have with China and Taiwan legally obligating them to respond if they are atttacked in exchange for 70% of their output and use of pipeline capacity-Rusiia is invested in the Natanz and Bushehr light water reactors recently completed, plus 20% of Irans output alog with excess pipeline capacities. . In light of the report that further stated that we didnt have the intelligence to guess the location of all their nuclear programs and would be unable to intelligently asses targeting...isreal is going to push us past our own military objections, and force us to defend our troops in Iraq, which will most certainly come under attack if Isreal Attacks Syria..which then invites the rusians and chinese to come protect their Energy interest...

Not to mention that the Iranian president believes that he was put into their presidency to bring about the appearance of the 'Mahdi" (their christ like figure that comes out of a well at the last moment to save humanity)..much as Bush and the ISrealis believe that the subordination of the arabs, and retaking of jerusalem to rebuild the Temple of Solomon is necessary in order to usher the Messianic millenium..and christs return.

so There are two unstoppable trains headed straight for each other...get ready.

Iran has 300 sunburn missiles (100% indefensible) pointed at the straight of hormuz and housed in hardened bunkers, and will attempt to sink our entire fifth fleet stationed in the gulf. Online intelligence is suggesting that they are already hard at work mining the gulf against submarines..

In other words...WHEEEE.
and now we can see why they recently raised the draft age from 36 (raised in January) to 42 as of last month.

I dont have to worry tho..father in law insists he will shoot me to prevent me from going..and somehow i dont doubt him. I fear greatly becuase he is a horrible aim.

peace...(?)

Oh yeah, Im not accepting that argument that well, Isreal as a fledgling nation was attacked by the entire arab world, so to the winner go the spoils hence The palestinians are all terrorists whose families are due this sort of terror and brutality that they have been living under.....Thats a crock of bullshit..winning a war does not give one the right to expell a people, or continue to brutalize them for fifty years, as Isreal has done...

lots of scary yet interesting thoughts/facts there sheix, good read.

Here BFG.. click on this and watch the Video..

http://mediamatters.org/items/200607180007

(You note..it's all Republican and their shills responses ...Newt..Gibson..Hannity...O'Reilly..and Ledeen)

Just to add to the menu of things happening:

In the year 1999 (and) seven months,
From the sky will come a great King of Terror
He will resurrect the great King of Angelmois
Before and afterwards Mars rules happily.

JULY 1999:
 One of Nostradamus' most date-specific predictions, declares that a "great king of terror" would come from the sky in 1999. Many interpretations were made for 1999 and yet nothing of significance occurred in July of 1999.

But something important did happen in the skies during July 7, 1999 - A car-sized meteor speed over New Zealand today and burst in mid-air, leaving a cloud of dust in the sky. Video of the cloud was widely telecast on the evening news....Is this a near-miss for Nostradamus's King-of-Terror-from-the-Sky prediction? He mentioned the 'new city' and this occurred in New Zealand. If the meteor had not exploded before hitting the ground, it could have been a very serious catastrophe.


In the year of the new century and nine months,
 From the sky will come a great King of Terror.
 The sky will burn at forty-five degrees.
 Fire approaches the great new city.

Could that have been a reference to Sept 11, 2001 (The new century and nine months) What great "NEW" City is located at 45º - New York?
 
He also said:

In the City of God there will be a great thunder,
Two Brothers torn apart by Chaos,
While the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb.
The third big war will begin when the big city is burning.

Two Brothers? Some link this to the Towers and their colapse... could be anything really! But its freaky!

Could that had been his signal for the things to come? Ofcourse, there are countless of interpretations.... Who knew?



 Here are some articles I came upon about Nostradamus (http://people.howstuffworks.com/nostradamus6.htm) before Sadam was defeated or Usama put on the run....

Nostradamus's predictions in light of the New York bombing - from author John Hogue:
 "This is some of what I understand is in the prophecies of Nostradamus concerning present and near future events. He spoke of a new type of world war to come; one using surprise and ambush. A rogue leader from the Mideast will trigger it. He is a terrorist, code named in the prophecies as "Mabus" or the "Third Antichrist." This man will be one of the first to fall in his war. He could become a symbolic martyr for terrorists who will soak the world with blood for 27 years. Nostradamus spoke of the great new city made of high "hollow mountains" near the garden of the world. The state of New Jersey, from whose shore one can view the great hollow mountains of New York City, is known as “The Garden State.” In two of Nostradamus’ prophecies a thing his 16-century mind can only call “it” cuts a path to these hollow mountains. They are then seized and boiled in a cauldron...Over four centuries ago, Nostradamus may have seen those great hollow mountains hit by a huge, "scattered flame." He implied that the flame could not be put out and the smoke and debris would rise and ferment in boiling clouds, as if they were “plunged in a vat.”  What is next for us? If my interpretations are correct we will soon know who the perpetrator — this Third Antichrist — is. If “Mabus” stands as an anagram for Saddam or Usama or someone we have yet to uncover, look for his death or political destruction very soon in a retaliatory attack. If a more balanced American foreign policy in Mideast affairs is not forthcoming after the Antichrist falls, then the war is only beginning. America and her allies will endure almost thirty years of terror bombings and catastrophic loss of life....


Regardless of its veracity or not, Nostradamus (http://people.howstuffworks.com/nostradamus6.htm) gives me the chillz!!!!

You should read what Tiro said it's some very quantam and creepy shit.

Damn it, excellent post shiex and some painfully reveling quotes there. I woke this morning to the paper telling me that Bush has deceided to Give Israel another week to attack Hizbulla. Erm that would actually be more like "Bush has decided to give Israel another week to murder lebannese civilians. Tony Blair has reverted to his default position and stuck his head up bush's ***. These two have actually suceeded in international efforts to stop the conflict immediatly.

What astonish's me is to be quite honest how stupid Israel is being - do they honestly think that murdering Lebanese civilians will help bring security to their people? How do they think young lebanese people will feel when loved ones/friends are murdered by the Israelis? Who comes along and offers to fight your cause and defend you? Hizbulla does.

That is of course, unless Israel has other plans, and that this isn't just about security of its current territories. Or are they actually trying to get Syria/iran involved so they have an excuse (and give Bush the excuse that he is so desperate for) to attack?


I found so many of those quotes really painful to read. It really shows a angle of the israeli/palastinian conflict that many people seem totally unwilling to accept.

Some of the media coverage i find pretty disgusting as well, its turning into some f*cking entertainment rather than the news. disgusting.

Forget Bush and Blair for a second.

Where the F is U.N. on this one?  Is it the job of the United States and G.B. to ploice the world everytime some country feels its religious destiny to fight with its enemy/neighbor?

Seriously, why do we even have things like the U.N. and N.A.T.O. if they are ineffective in time of crisis?  The U.N. led forces should already be there trying to neutralize the situation. Have U.N. negotiators been sent to the countries in question to try and extinguish the flame? In my own personal opinion, maybe some agree....the U.N. has become a joke of an organization, and a complete overhaul is needed. Please remove it and all its diplmats from NYC please!  It should be stationed in a neutral location anyway. 

If it wasn't for all the imminent nuclear threats, I would say, just let them battle it out. Winner gets Jerusalem, loser's entire country is banned to Antarctica. But seriously, Two cranky countries...similar and at the same time completely opposite schools of thought.  Does anyone truly believe that there will ever be peace between Israel and Palestine?

The U.N. is nothing more then a eunuch at an orgy. Shit, this eunuch doesn't even have a tongue. Just a useless group that talks about a perfect world that deems it useless. You can see a mini U.N. everyday at your local McDonalds or coffee shop where a group of 5 or more senior citizens gather and gab endlessly.

With the 5 permanent members and their veto powers, as well as it pretty much being divided, it is just basically useless. The U.N. can't even get itself involved in Africa half the time to just feed people, let alone go into a warzone.

just came across a good commentary

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/07/18/dobbs.july19/index.html

As i said before The United States (backed by Blair) managed to prevent International efforts (i imagine including action by the UN etc) to halt the violence.

That said i totally agree that the U.N has never seemed so weak before. Get it out the US and place it in a neautral location and stop countries like the UN and UK from having such swaying power (easier said than done i know)

That said i understand that all negotiators and UN representatives have been evacuated because of the violence. Mean while Hizbulla continues to fire rockets into Israeli territory (the vast majority  are missing targets and causing no loss of life) , and Israel continues to destroy whole villages in Lebanann.

The UN has said that it believes War Crimes could have been commited on all three sides. In Israel, in Palastine, but primarily in Lebanon.

The stories from recently evacuated Canadian British and French civilians on the news tonight left me with tears running down my face. Ones woman's words were simply that she was so relieved to have escaped Lebanon but her heart was broken for those left behind to face the brunt of the Israeli attacks. She simply asked that the international community stand in and stop israel from carrying out such atrocities (she described seeing the mangled bodies and limbs of children blown apart by an Israeli F15 that dropped bombs on a water cannel where children were playing)

The international community needs to move NOW. One suited idiot blabbed on about how nothing could happen until Hizbulla were persuaded to stop firing rockets at israel. I love this one sided blind view that ignores the fact that it is israli actions that are causing the massive loss of life of innocent civilians and escalating the prospect of more violence. As he stated Israel won't stop unless Hizbulla stops. But how on earth can anyone imagine that Hizbulla will stop when they see what Israel is doing to Lebannese civilians?

Quick last question. Israel is bombing lebanan etc because it claims Syria and Iran (and presumably Lebanan) are funding and aiding Hizbulla.

Taking that warped 'logic' would it have been permissable for the UK to bomb America because some Americans were supporting the IRA in Northan Irland? No i think not.

So many Israeli's seem to be so bundled up in their self obsessed idea of being eternally persecuted that that they are unable to accept that they are actually the ones persecuting. In fact even as this persecution continues on zionist had the audacity to claim that Israel was the one being persecuted and the one that the international community should be 'backing' .

 - not a half bad commentry. Just a few other things to add from before.

While i can understand governments being desperate to evacuate their civilians i wonder does it not at the same time show a sense of resignation to the violence and allowance for these war crimes to take place? The "we'll get our civilians out and then we can let the rest stew" approach is sickening. If the International Community stepped in and stopped Israel and Hizbulla now there would be no need to evacuate their own civilians.

And what about the lebanese men woman and children? who is coming to evacuate them from the israeli bombs?

- also. How exactly can Lebanon hold any force over the actions of Hizbulla when Israel is attacking and killing lebanese military personal, and all and any lebanese infrastructure they seem to find.

     "City of God" doesn't say "New York" to me. Why would a 16th-century man call New York a city of God, anyway? While reading that quatrain, it flashed into my head that he's talking about Jerusalem. "A great thunder" has few interpretations – I read it as bombing. Probably conventional, because you'd think that nukes would get a stronger description than "thunder". The rest of it is pretty standard prognostication, open to dozens of interpretations.

Isn't there a place for Nostradamus and a place for discussing what is actually happening? somehow feels pretty demeaning considering what is going on to be mixing the discussion of genocide and war crimes along with a 16th Centry blokes predictions of the future.

Considering there are believers and nonbelievers as to what he predicted about what is actually happening, no, it isn't irrelevant nor demeaning to bring him into the topic.

     I actually don't think much of Nostradamus. That particular quatrain caught my eye. Anything I would have said regarding the topic at hand has been said better by others in this thread, anyway.

I make my appereance very rarely in these forums, but I will speak about this frankly. Every day it gets closer and with these recent events I am convinced that I should return to Russian sooner than usual. You think Chavez is insane? Through all your bullshit propaganda, lets review the facts. To assume the election in Mexico was a valid election is just stupid. US wants no Chavez on their border and I would not be suprised if their hand was involved in heavily defrauding the Mexican people of their rightful leader.

I have reason to be angry because you Americans are stealing our land in a very indirect way. You implant democratic regimes in the Ukraine that are an absolute joke and are nothing but your handpuppets. The Ukraine is the fucking birth place of our NATION! If Ukraine is independent from Moscow, than so should Philadelphia from the rest of the United States! You try to encircle us militarily via Afghanistan, Iraq, Georgia, and suprise Iran is your next target. How many sovreign nations has Iran and Venezuela invaded compared to the United States? How many puppet regimes are put in place by Persian, Russian, and Chinese intel agencies? You Westerners and your Israeli whores are the real threat to world peace, I as a Russian, and my very progressive Persian friends, all we want to do is maintain our cultural identity and our political and territorial integrity, you people want to destroy us because of it. One of my dreams is to see the Ukraine reunited with Russia and Belarus so that the Russian people can finally be a united nationstate. If that needs to in the end be done by military force, than so be it!

If I were Chavez, I would prepare for that stuff too. Mind you, there has already been a failed CIA coup against Chavez before, however it was put down by popular resistance. Why should he be giving the United States complete knowledge of him military? By the way, the planes sold to him were not the obsolete MIG 29 Fulcrums but the much more reliable Sukhoi 30 aircraft.

I dont want there to be a war, but if you Westerners attack Iran, I know then there is a possibility that I will be seeing you on the other side of the battlefield. I keep saying it and you keep calling me a nutjob. However, every day with things like Lebanon happening, my prediction gets closer while yours becomes more of a fantasy.

From Russia with Love.

I love giving conversations a twist from the ordinary. Bringing quotes from the Bible and Nostradamus into play are just a way to go into a tangent from what is a sad topic in human history. Note I never say I believe in Nostradamus, I merely present the quotes and works from people that have studied him over the years to illustrate a believe of a strong side of society which does think he is a prophet.

Being a lawyer by profession and a teacher by desire, I will now offer a different angle on the current situation. This one is more to my liking, since it reflects facts, history accounts and the undeniable truth of our existence in this world... we humans do not know how to get along with each other, and we bring upon ourselves many fountains of distasteful controversies, and enigmatic conflicts which will never bring about peace, for the only way to achieve a long lasting peace is by LOVING each other as family, as brothers.... and that is just not in our DNA!  John Lennon wrote a song about Love... and no frontiers.... and all he got was death... there lies the truth of humanity!

Now, to proceed with the current conflict, I warn as did Sheixhundt, who I don’t know but have grown to respect through this forum, this will be long, excuse me ahead of time, but I hope to make it worth it:

I have tried to summarize the historical events leading up to “Current Status”. Forgive my English, and the use of terms I have learned only to use in Spanish.

Ronald Reagan said that in the Middle East “hatred has roots so deep, they go to the very dawn of history”. A quick revision on the conflict that has just burst, could easily take us to the times of the “exodus”, when 1,200 years before Christ, we find the Hebrews running away from Egypt, guided by Moses. After dwelling 40 years through the Sinai Desert, they reach Canaan, the Promised Land, where they confront the fillisters in a must war as it is defined in the book of “Numbers” which would last over 2 centuries.

One thousand years before Christ, David conquers Jerusalem and establishes his kingdom. His son, Salomon, builds a Temple in the place where, almost one thousand years before, Abraham wanted to sacrifice his son Isaac in order to demonstrate his fidelity to God. Nonetheless, according to Islamic tradition, the sacrifice was going to be on his other son, Ishmael, from where Arabs descend. After Solomon’s death, that kingdom is split into two States, which are devastated in the following millennium by the Assyrians and Babylonians, and controlled by the Persians, Macedonians, ptolomeans, and selucians. A century and a half before Christ, Simon reestablishes Israel’s independence, which they lose once again to the Romans in the year 63 B.C.

In the first century of the Christian Era, the Romans destroy the Temple of Salomon and expel the Jews, initiating turmoil which would last almost 2 thousand years, and which ends temporarily after WWII, when the 14th of may of 1948, the United nations proclaims the creation of the new State of Israel.

That region is considered holly land by three great monotheistic religions of the world: Hebrews, Christianity, and Islam, whom all have in common the same root, Abraham. There, in Jerusalem, were there once stood the great temple of Salomon, at a very short distance, Christ was crucified.

Toward the year 630 of our time, the archangel St. Gabriel, appears before Mohammad, and reveals to him a new religion. Riding on his “buraq” (beast that existed in Paradise), the Prophet flies from The Mecca to Jerusalem, landing in the place where there once stood the temple of Salomon. From there, Mohammad has his encounter with God, or ALA.

Jerusalem in conquered by Caliph Umar toward the year 630. Their inhabitants are converted to Islam. They construct the Dome of the Rock, in the same place where there once stood the Temple of Salomon. The Dome hosts the “rock” where Abraham was going to sacrifice his son.

Of the Temple of Salomon all that is left is the Wall of lamentation, which is the most sacred Jewish spot in the planet. On top of the Wall, there still lies the Dome of the Rock, beloved and holly to Islam, and not too far from them two, you find the Church worshipped by all of Christianity.

The Christians started the crusades the year 1095 in order to gain back their holly places from Islamic domination. These were centuries of bloody wars.

During many centuries, the Ottoman Empire dominated most of the lands, until the end of WWI, when they were passed on to the dominion of the French and the British. But after WWII, the UN decided to create the State of Israel, the same way they created the Palestine. But guess what, and here is were the new conflicts has its roots, the Palestine people did not accept the territories given, because they wanted more. Even Jerusalem. Israel was not going to give Jerusalem to them….

In 1948 the Independence War of Israel breaks out. Six Arab nations attack the newly created country of Israel. That of course would not be the last conflict.  The Suez War in 1956, The 6 Days War in 1967, and the Yom Kippur War in 1973 followed it.

In 1970, after an assassination attempt on the life of King Hussein of Jordan, the Palestinian people were expelled from Jordan. They had gotten there seeking shelter from Israel after they had tried to destroy it in 1948.

The Palestinians fled to Lebanon, from where the Organization to Free Palestine launches frequent attacks on Israel. The Christians of Lebanon oppose such guerrilla actions on Israel, and a Civil War breaks out in Lebanon in which Syria intervenes in 1976.  The Jewish forces, headed by Ariel Sharon, penetrate Lebanon in 1982, surround Beirut, and confront the Syrian armies.

A Multinational Force from the UN, made up of troops from USA, France, and Italy, lands on Lebanon to try to bring about peace to the conflict. In 1983, over 240 American and 40 French soldiers died in a terrorist suicide attack perpetrated by the Palestinian terrorists.

In 1983, the Jews withdrew from Lebanon, and the Syrian troops did the same in 2005.

But yet a new conflict has burst in the region. This one could easily spread over to Syrian this time. If that occurs, Iran, and president Ahmadinejad who heads the radical Islamic Government, says it will intervene. And as if this were not enough, declares that they have to erase Israel from the map.

After 2000 years of seeking a home, the Jews will not give up an inch of territory. They have the armament to withstand anything. In the mean while, the Persian Gulf, with all of its riches in oil, could be involved in the upcoming war.

The weight of history is undeniable. Could this be the very beginning of WWIII?

Dont spam our thread with that Russian Bullshit..save it for a Russian thread.

Please stay on Topic. this is not an eastern Asiatic political conference nor is it a quorum on south american politics. feel like discussing those topics..break out a thread..The subject will be handled respectfully there...unless oh you start the american bashing shit up. Its almost as though you dont really read the posts, becuase you are puposefully bashing people who have ALREADY stated their dissatisfaction with the administration, so addditionally insulting us and our Americanhood is childish..and uncalled for.

We're talking about Isreal Pounding the shit out of the infrastructure in Lebanon and Gaza to Punish the Palestinians for voting for Hamas, on the one hand (while publically CLAIMING that its all about Hezbollah, which has NOT A FUCKING THING TO DO with Brigade actions/kidnapping in gaza) The kidnapping of that ONE soldier came in retaliation for Shelling an ENTIRE family to death on the beach while at a picnic without admitting any responsibility whatsoever, and the continued detention of 1200 women and children WHO HAVE NOT BEEN CHARGED WITH A CRIME (of 2200 total detainees) .  This thread is about Isreali brutality...so im not sure who the fuck youre yelling at about us coddling Isreal. think we dont KNOW that already?

Isreal likes to lump its enemies and their motivations into an indeciferable clusterfuck so that they can confuse the issues beyond untangling..like linking some disaffected militant group in Gaza, with Hezbollah in Lebanon, with Syria, and Iran..i mean really wtf is that shit? Matter of fact, if Hamas, Fatah and Hezbollah were factions in the same country It would be allout civil war...This 'brotherhood with the palestinians' talk is for the mental relief of the Lebanese parliment and to prevent Lebanese action from removing Hez from lebanon's comfortable suburbs....(who moved into the region to ostensibly protect the lebanese from the isrealis in the FIRST fucking place....)

Now on to your thoughts and references...

Im glad to see that your education in america has convinced you that Uniting countries that unanimously WANT and DESIRE to be independant with FORCE is OK..(but thats not Hypocritical or Overtly Nationalistic is any way now is it?) Im sure the dead ukranians and georgians would thank you for your progressively enlightened thought processes, however.

Sounds like youve forgotten the value of a Dual Citizenship in a democracy..and if you're so upset..renounce it (which is entrirely within your rights) and go to Russia. As long as Ive known you, you sound and act as American as the rest of us. And Im aware as anyone that America (good or bad) IS a melting pot which readily absorbs ungrateful foreigners (how selfish of us), who pretend some sort of superiority (after having parents who emigrated here for some obvious beneficial terms), while reaping the benefits of free speech and freedom of association, a progressive political education, and other such non tangible benefits..all the while talking out of their ass about how shitty it is to be here and how shitty Americans are WHILE being American yourslef.. Hate yourself if you want..thats not on me, but please realize how ridiculous thats going to sound to the rest of us..because youre being ridiculous.

 But dont be so crass as to sit and spit that hatred at me as an american, while youre as american as I am..although its become obvious were using two entirely different thought processes here. Id like to see you as a Russian Citizen in the late 70s or early 80's standing in the Red Square screaming about your resentment of your national political processes...hatred of your leaders, etc... Can you say "a VERY fucking cold Cossack", who wont be playing any video games any time soon becuase he'll be too busy splitting rocks and digging tundra for some cross siberian hiway?

**CRITICAL***

Now I want you to read the following so youre DAMN clear on what im pissed about now.. becuase the tendency will be puff up against what im saying here..as it is absolutely a shot back in your direction..
I dont mind your opinions about our administration, or its influence in the world Not ONE LITTLE BIT, because thats one of your Shitty Rights as a Shitty american, but you can FUCKING bet I resent that "YOU Americans" Bullshit. Get real Coss, youre an american and youre as powerless as the REST of us to do a fucking thing about it at the moment until the next election... dont attempt to distance yourself...youre right in the mix buddy, as an american. Dont like it, stick around and vote..or again, renounce. Dont just stand on the sidelines enjoying your citizenship while screaming at me..I wont buy it.

I steadfastly reject an assertion of 'You Americans' as though youve been standing outside observing it all..it is WE Americans, just to set your record straight, Coss..check your citizenship papers if you doubt that.

Things are so shitty here? Then why did your parent (i realize only one did by marriage, correct?) immigrate here? Think that furniture restoration business would thrive in post communist, economically depressed Russia? Think again. Youd be paying out the ASS to local officials, graft for allowing your business to continue AS WELL AS likely paying local Mafia figures protection money to prevent their undue influence, and to perhaps prevent kidnappings of your family members if by chance that furniture restoration business started becoming publicly recognized as profitable.. It's widely known and corroborated that American investments began curtailing the MINUTE they realized how corrupt the Russian business model is, and you can deny it to the forum for the sake of defence of 'mother russia', but i'm a hundred percent right on that one (you see, I read more than CNN and FOX news), and youre welcome to attempt to tell me its all bullshit... But you wont have the chance to convince me that the Russian Business model is superior to ours..becuase its NOT. sorry.

As for the Ukrainian issue, you're giving the United States too much credit. If Ukranians were so thorughly appreciative of Moscow and its heavy handed political tactics-such as withholding much needed gas/propane during the coldest winter months to make political points (which im sure you find superior to american politics) why exactly is it that they expressed the desire to be independant in the first place? You think our CIA is so efficient as to brainwash ALL those eastern European countries into believeing incorrectly and without basis in fact that the former USSR was a stagnating entity with more regard to Corruption, Nepotism and Mafia influence? No, they believe it becuase its true, and THAT my friend is the source of their dissatisfaction..but you go ahead and take em all back by force..thats what blind nationalists do, with NO regard to the will of the populace. Again, political enlightenment in action.

As for the Mexican elections..absolutely there was fraud, but Ill tell you something about mexican politics..it is fed by local sources of corrution, and NO Cia effort is going to penetrate the anti-gringo sentiment that pervades mexican politics. That comes from graft of the local politcal seats, wishing to influence the elections themselves, and garnering hopeful political rewards for themselves and family members.. Pay a vote handler a thousand dollars to disappear a box of ballots, regardless of his true affiliation, and guess what? That box disappears. There is no overarching american Vote conspiracy... they werent using diebold machines, and they didnt have a complicit Supreme Court. They had a handful of cash, and some guys who were willing to trash paper ballots to line his own pockets and feed his family a little bit better. Much as you may not like it, Mexican politics is JUST that simple.

And as to your question about how many nations Iran has invaded? In all those history lessons, you never read up on the persian empire? Maybe you got screwed on your education. Theirs is one of the most bloody histories in the entire Islamic world.

As youll not, in the case youre actually reading these posts..find me calling out for war against any of those countries..I dont appreciate being treated as though i were.. Thats rude, inconsiderate and again WAY out of line considering my and other americans expressions of regret about how our adminstration coddles isreal, and handles its foreigh policy. No, I personally dont want a war, no I dont want to fight iran, or Russia or China... no i dont support much of what our administration has done, but FUCK all if Im going to stand here as a citizen and scream at people about how bad THEIR america is, while we're all in the same boat...as Americans.

And Coss, ive loved ya bro, but on this one, just remember that it was YOU who came in swinging..Offtopic and on shakey footing.

And for Tiro...it was fine to hear your thoughts on Nostradamus, and your last post was great..thanks a lot (to all of you) for contributing ..i truly enjoy/require all this interaction with other people that are well read and educated..

Seriously....if you've been paying your taxes correctly all year, you'll get a refund check ...use the money to buy a one way ticket out of here.

Vote
Sheixhundt 2008.

No, it wasn't popular resistance that got Chavez back into power, it was an Army General by the name of General Raul Baduel. He was one of the officers who rose up against the short-lived Carmona government during the April 2002 attempted coup. At the time, he was chief of the 42nd Airborne Brigade of paratroopers.
Baduel helped organise the operation that rescued Mr Chavez from prison on the Caribbean island of La Orchila. He was subsequently promoted to Commander of the 4th Armoured Division (Maracay), giving him control of the central-southern area of the country.
Critics say the general is one of three officers "co-governing" Venezuela with the president.
His cousin, Army Colonel Jose Ricardo Bozza Baduel, is one of 135 dissident officers who declared themselves in "legitimate disobedience" in October 2002.
The colonel says he does not share General Baduel's "Castro-communist sympathies".
He has called on the nation "not to be fooled by those who have a vested interest in maintaining the current corrupt Chavez government".



You also talk about defrauding, and rightful leaders, while you ignore that Chavez himself has managed to stay in power by committing technologycal fraud on the referendum that took place to get him out of power. Here is the Fraud Proof (http://blogs.salon.com/0001330/categories/rrModels/) which has not been recognized by the government.

Also, Read This (http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:wFVgLgszumkJ:www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/opinion/14194451.htm+smartmatic+investigation&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1&client=safari)
to see why Chavez is a threat to true democracy.

Nostradamus mentioned that this thread would occur.

And so it goes on, Israel continue to decimate towns and villages in Lebanon, without check from the International community thanks to the despicable actions of the US and UK governments.

And while the worlds media focus on the decimation and genocide of Lebanon and its people Israel is doing much the same quietly in Palestine - hundreds killed in unchecked assaults into Palestinian land, with houses and farmland systematically destroyed.

When oh when will people stand up to the Israeli government and its supporters and when will they realize that this is 2006 and Israel is not the poor helpless persecuted, but a persecuting military might with it seems no value of any human life outside of its (illegal) borders.

To Shei, I already am no longer an American citizen and I am already packing my bags up to go back to Petersburg and the Army. I am not one of those people who says something and doesn't follow through.
Everyone says something and nothing. Dont yell at me for talking about Chavez, talk to the other guy who talked about it first, I am just responding.

About mobs and stuff, yes I agree completley. That is why I whole heartedly agree to their destruction. About having my nation broken up into mini-states, I dont see why we just have to lie down and take it. I apologize for lumping you with US government, next time I will say Western Governments, American Governments, and Israeli government. I know my ideas are not enlightened, but fuck it, who cares. Its very simple, why should we allow ourselves to be carved into tiny mini-states. Also, take a look at the Ukraine now, and you will see many are calling for reunification with Moscow after going through with Yushchenko.

It is unfair to compare the 3000 years of Persian history to the 230 years of American history. I should have said within the latter half of the twentieth century. Yes I admit, the Persians invaded the Greeks in 300s BC, the sultanate of Herat in the nineteenth century etc etc etc.

Yes, parents came over here after fall of USSR and rise of Yeltsin, now my father is wanting to go back now that mob presence is greatly reduced. We are all going back. Again, words and actions.

Now on to Israel, who the hell do they think they are. They talk about world peace and unification of all nations and in the same breath they talk about ethnically cleansing the entire middle east. They take in international criminals and mobsters and give them amnesty from interpol, an orginzation of which they are supposedly apart of? Israel is also the country with the highest amount of assasinations of foreign individuals on foreign territory in the world. If Sadaam was bad, they too need to be taken out. Why should Olmert be any different?

For the record, i didnt mind about your mention of Chavez...not at all, just that you were incorrect that america was somehow to blame for the corruption in mexican politics.

I greatly respect your commitment of following through on your beliefs...in sincereity i do..

But no one 'carved' your country into states..they all seceeded..willingly.
As for Yuschenko...Progressive politician punished BY POISONING, for having views that didnt exalt Mother Russia and all that reunification nonsense. (And again the only thing that made it nonsense was that THEY, THE PEOPLE wanted the freedom-it was not imposed upon them from the west.) Yes ive heard of similar desires to reunify, but dont think that its not as much out of a sense of fear of Putin, as it is a reunification desire. They saw what could be done to their leders if they strayed..and then being punished by cutting of gas. (and yes, i realize they may have been stealing or siphoning excess capacity, which i dont condone)..but the Punishemnt phase of nationalism has them all scared...even Gorbachev..

And dont think that as that nationalism raises it's ugly head that Russia will not be at the mercy of the cosmic forces of ideological purging... You mention it yourself in an indirect way (unification by force not being such a foreign an unappelaing ideal after all)..and Yuschenko was but one teeny tiny example of what can happen to Modern progressive thinkers in a state thats only two generations removed from Stalin and his slaughter since we are referring only to latter 20th century leaders (whose crimes make hitlers look like patty cakes). That tendency to fold under an agressive charismatic leader, or bow in fear of him is not removed from the hearts of the Russians..its ingrained. If its happening here today, it can and will happen there tomorrow.

Kinda spooky that you would tout your unenlightened thinking as any sort of good thing. It puts you right into the same boat as the american Extremists you have grown to hate..just in another geographical region.  Trust me, the subjects of your reunification violence will not appreciate the purity of your thinking..not one bit..and peace will not come after such a move..

Your views are more evidence that as we move on in years, that peace is further and further away..everyone is so angry about everything else ( and despite their assignations of blame, america is not the cause of it all-just the butt of it) that they are sacrificing their ideals of peace happiness, freedoms, and democracy for the unity and safety of militarism..EVERYONE. And its global..and its unstoppable.

I find it unusual that during Iraq, and afghanistan, people were asking who we thought we were policing the world, but now when Isreal acts up, those same people are asking why we arent policing Isreal..sorta hypocritically ODD if you ask me...

See you on the front i guess...sigh.

I bet your gonna just love your Russian Bootcamp..you have an UGLY surprise waiting.
Being an ex westerner is going to paint a target on you bigger than St Peters  square.

good luck bro..and again, sincere respect for following though on your beliefs..
And pardon the inherent anger in my earlier post...im defensive right now, as we all are.
No harm No Foul?

I am trying to stay on subject with Lebanon.

I'll just say that Yushchenko is no mickey mouse. The man is a product of the mafiosos, dont think Tymoshenko is some great person either, she is just another oligarch. The difference between US nationalists and Russian patriots is that our goals are aimed in a domestic sense rather than an international sense. BTW, there was no referendum passed on the dissolution of the Soviet Union, ever. Not by Ukranians, Russians, or Byelorussians. As for the Army thing, I know what its like because I went to a military high school over there.  That is enough on that because as you said before, "Lets not get off topic."

On to Israel / Lebanon. People wonder why extremists pop up, this is the reason! If you want to bring peace to the middle east start on this. The Syrian Ambassador to the United States said it best on Jim Leher in that you cannot talk about Peace in the Middle East without the existence of a Palestinian State. On that subject, Hamas has said it will grant reciprical recognition. Meaning, that if they recognize a Palestinian state, Hamas will in turn recognize Israel's right to exist. Israel turned this down.

I myself dont value peace as much as I value true freedom. I am sure many of the bombed out Palestinians and Lebanese are the same way. If I were a Palestinian, I too would be a member of Hamas. If I were a Shiite in Beirut, I too would be a member of Hezbollah. People talk of peace at tables and nothing comes of it, you know why? Because people like me dont just want to lay down and die while other people roll over them in tanks. American forefather patriots were the same way. Remember New Hampshire's motto, "Live Free or Die!"

As for the pretext, I do not beleive for one second that the kidnapping of these two soldiers has anything to do with their real aims of attacking Lebanon. They are just looking for an excuse to pull something off. You know how crazy these Israeli's are. It is not hard to beleive that they want a Jewish Empire stretching from the Nile to the Euphrates. Infact, I think there is a quote about that somewhere.

http://www.danielpipes.org/article/247

As for a theme that comes up no matter what conflict you are talking about, and that is the theme of nationalism. In and of itself, nationalism is a good thing. Not fighting and not caring about your nation is just as destructive as being a warmonger and invading your neighbors. People laud Bismarck, and Guissepe Garibaldi as enlightened people of history. They united their nations into a singular state and did it by force if neccesary. Why should a similar figure in the Arab world, in Russia, or any other fractured nation not be treated with the same amount of respect? Nationalism can of course be taken to far. Such examples are known to everyone as Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan. Infact, any political theorem can be taken too far. We've seen capitalism taken too far, we've seen Communism taken too far, we've seen every socio-economic policy taken to far and to disasterous consequences. Nowadays, its Zionism being taken too far, and that is what Israel is proving to the world, they themselves are the world's modern day nazis.

The creation of a Palestine Sate was rejected by the Arabs in 1947. I  quote (http://www.mideastweb.org/briefhistory.htm) :


"Partition -  The United Nations Special Commission on Palestine (UNSCOP) recommended that Palestine be  divided into an Arab state and a Jewish state. The commission called for Jerusalem to be put under international  administration The UN General Assembly adopted this plan on Nov. 29, 1947 as UN  Resolution (GA  181), owing to support of both the US and the Soviet Union, and in particular, the personal support of US President Harry S. Truman. Many factors contributed to Truman's decision to support  partition, including domestic politics and intense Zionist lobbying, no doubt. Truman wrote in his diary, however,  "I think the proper thing to do, and the thing I have been doing, is to do what I think  is right and let them all go to hell."
 

The Jews accepted the UN decision, but the Arabs rejected it. The  resolution divided the land into two approximately equal portions in a complicated scheme with zig-zag borders (see map  at right and  see Partition Map and detailed partition map). The intention was an economic  union between the two states with open borders. At the time of partition, slightly less than half the land in all of  Palestine was owned by Arabs, slightly less than half was "crown lands" belonging to the state, and about 8% was owned  by Jews or the Jewish Agency. There were about 600,000 Jews in Palestine, almost all living in the areas allotted to the  Jewish state or in the internationalized zone of Jerusalem, and about 1.2 million Arabs. The allocation of land by  Resolution 181 was intended to produce two areas with Jewish and Arab majorities respectively. Jerusalem and environs  were to be internationalized. The relatively large Jewish population of Jerusalem and the surroundings, about 100,000,  were geographically cut off from the rest of the Jewish state, separated by a relatively large area, the "corridor,"  allotted to the Palestinian state. The corridor included the populous Arab towns of Lod and Ramla and the smaller towns  of Qoloniyeh, Emaus, Qastel and others that guarded the road to Jerusalem.


It soon became evident that the scheme could not work. Mutual antagonism  would make it impossible for either community to tolerate the other. The UN was unwilling and unable to force  implementation of the internationalization of Jerusalem. The Arab League, at the  instigation of Haj Amin Al-Husseini, declared a war to rid Palestine of the Jews. In fact however, the Arab countries  each had separate agendas. Abdullah, king of Jordan, had an informal and secret agreement with Israel, negotiated with  Golda Meir, to annex the portions of Palestine allocated to the Palestinian state in the West Bank, and prevent  formation of a Palestinian state. Syria wanted to annex the northern part of Palestine, including Jewish and Arab areas. "

According to this, the palestinians were betrayed by their neighboring Arab nations (Jordan, Syria..etc) who were looking to gain territory at its expense and pushed it to reject the treaty. What does the Syrian Ambassador have to say about that?

It wasn't a perfect partition, but heck it was better than all the wars that have been going on since! They should have taken it!

Hrm, well the reserves have been called up and Israel is massing for full scale invasion. Time to sit back and see how the chess pieces fall now. Lebanon already said it's army would fight israel if they invaded, Syria just used threats and the nutty Iranians said they have a "surprise" in the next few days as well as vowing vengeance for all actions.

HAHA, i know this is a bit old but nobody posted this yet. The US was thinking about charging about $7,000 per citizen that they were going to evacuate from lebanon. Then they released a report saying that it seemed nobody was willing to leave. WTF you thinking you dumbshits, who the fuck has that much money lying around to get their family out of a warzone, do you take VISA? Well, after much uproar they said they would do it for free, I guess that is less $200 plungers for gov't toilets.

Speculation is rampant among intelligence analysts, that the iranian "surprise" is a North korean Nuke..

Now THAT would make shit interesting.

The tension is killing me, figuratively of course... Unless somehow those "secret nukes" got to Cuba or Venezuela... Then maybe the tension could kill literally. I'm just holding my breath and waiting to see what happens. GL all.

Please keep this thread going. You guys have given me lots to think about from both sides (thanks Cossack for your view from the other side). I rarely trust the what the US media reports and it is nice to get information from less biased and censoring sources such as you guys.

Ein

My parents and I were talking a few days ago and they said "You live in an interesting time, when the world is changing so much and so fast."  Yes.  Interesting.

The sort of interesting when you're hurtling along in the front car of a rollercoaster and see a huge hole in the tracks just a few moments away.

Interesting.

Iran and Syria don't want peace if that means Israel gets to exist.... They want to exterminate the Jews forever.... They don't attack Israel directly but harvest and support militias to do their dirty work.... This war will not end any time soon.

(http://www.geocities.com/lzerpa06/Sign.jpg)

The major concept that most Westerners don't grasp.  In addition, when most of us look at the map, all we see is this area called Israel, and the tiny West Bank and Gaza - so we naturally assume "poor Palestinians (or even Lebanese, in the present case) being ganged up on".  But nobody thinks to take a step back and realize that, oh - there's Jordan, Syria, Egypt, etc., all huge Arab countries, and every one of them would wipe Israel off the map if they only COULD (Israel's a nuclear power).  Israel's responses to Hezbollah, as well as Palestinian suicide bombings and rockets, is no different in intention from what they're doing back to Israel, and no different from what any other capable country would do if being attacked.

um guess i'm a couple weeks late, haven't been on this forum in a while. lol