*DAMN R6 Forum

below you can have a look at what is ought to be the next *dbl update for ghost recon. use this thread to make yourself familiar with the adjustments and to comment them.

this is also the place to hint us to yet overseen but important gameplay improvements. and here we are at the intention of this modification:
- even the chances to win the game, regardless of spawn point.
for this, a *dbl admin team and lots of you figured out on which maps were unfair spawns, or warzones that were to tricky to get against a well standing team. then we tried (and i swear succeeded;) to even the distances a spawn has to move to the wz and how teams can change the color of the wz later in the game.
also we tried to fix some ugly spawn-killing areas.

just to answer some of the prolly first questions, here some answers:
- yes, you still have to fight to win! this may include nade spamming because we didnt alter guns or anything else.
- this is no complete rewriting of the game you know so well. every adjustment is really only an "adjustment" of an existing spawn or warzone location. these modifications want to make "the old" game experience better and allow a wider variety of maps to choose from for any gametype, nothing else.

suggestions for discussion: are there any maps not listed which you dont play because of unfair spawns? what did you experience after playing these "new" maps intensely?

now to the overview of the changes:

• *DBL Aztek (CQB)
(http://monoman.planetrainbowsix.gamespy.com/dbl/mlp01_aztec_commandmap.png)

• *DBL Barn Day
(http://monoman.planetrainbowsix.gamespy.com/dbl/CommandmapFarm.bmp)

• *DBL Chalet (CQB)
(http://monoman.planetrainbowsix.gamespy.com/dbl/2grs_chalet.png)

• *DBL DCA Tower
(http://monoman.planetrainbowsix.gamespy.com/dbl/dca22-commandmap.png)

• *DBL Militia Compound
(http://monoman.planetrainbowsix.gamespy.com/dbl/militia_CommandMaps.png)

• D06 Ghost Town
(http://monoman.planetrainbowsix.gamespy.com/dbl/d06_ghosttown.png)

• D07 Roadblock:
(http://monoman.planetrainbowsix.gamespy.com/dbl/d07_roadblock.png)
- warzone less sensitive here

• D08 Tank
(http://monoman.planetrainbowsix.gamespy.com/dbl/D08_tank.png)

• DP01 Stronghold
(http://monoman.planetrainbowsix.gamespy.com/dbl/dp01_stronghold.png)
- warzone more sensitive here

• DP02 Farm Day
(http://monoman.planetrainbowsix.gamespy.com/dbl/dp02_farm_day.png)

• DP04 Wilderness
(http://monoman.planetrainbowsix.gamespy.com/dbl/DP04_wilderness.png)

• DP05 Ravine
(http://monoman.planetrainbowsix.gamespy.com/dbl/DP05_Ravine.png)

• M01 Caves
(http://monoman.planetrainbowsix.gamespy.com/dbl/m01_caves.png)

• M03 RRBridge
(http://monoman.planetrainbowsix.gamespy.com/dbl/m03_rrbridge.png)

• M05 Embassy
(http://monoman.planetrainbowsix.gamespy.com/dbl/m05_embassy.png)

• M09 Swamp
(http://monoman.planetrainbowsix.gamespy.com/dbl/m09_swamps.png)

• M10 Vilnius
(http://monoman.planetrainbowsix.gamespy.com/dbl/m10_RuinedCity.png)
- warzone more sensitive here

• M14 Mountain
(http://monoman.planetrainbowsix.gamespy.com/dbl/m14_mountain.png)

• M15 Red Square
(http://zigasim.macbay.de/DBL/DBL4_Command_Maps/M15_RedSquare.png)

• MP06 Castle
(http://monoman.planetrainbowsix.gamespy.com/dbl/MP06_Castle.png)

and because you dont wanna only talk theoretically about it but play, here is the test-package:
http://monoman.planetrainbowsix.gamespy.com/downloads/DBL_Addon_Beta.sitx
to test, you have two options: install manually by putting the content-files into the dbl final map pack->mission -folder. be sure to have a backup of this folder. this allows you to host it w/o ppl to download the mod themself.
or just copy the folder into your mods folder and make it highest priority mod through ghr. be sure to tell ppl they have to download the mod in order to join your host.

glhf

p.s.: pls comment! even if youre just repeating other comments - let us know what you think!

since these are all server sides you dont have to have them installed in order to join the host. also keep in mind that you will not have a choice to play the old spawns on any of the changed maps. at all.. this completely overrides any original mission file if the dbl has a higher priority. plz comment your feelings about that as well.

Looks interesting.

Why the slight move of the WZ on MBC? Is that so the zone can't be watched from the bridge by the hotel? It looks like it might be out of sight. The new placement seems like it could give the team that spawns by the garage (lower right) an advantage.

The other stuff seems to make sense... particularly on Stronghold and Caves.

good job guys

looks all fine and looking forward to play it !!!

could set a dedi ip host if needed monday night ?

@Mr. T: interesting observation. actually the zone moved right in front of south entrance to allow the south spawns or someone coming from there to kamikazee change wz color with a little skill/luck. this is especially helpfull if you play mbc with respawns where (normally) you cant get the north spawns off controlling the mbc. but helps south spawns in general. north spawns will still have the advantage of first access to mbc tho.

@ghost: the more we play it the better the result will be;)

Can someone make new command maps then for these changes???

PS: Everyone knows the Red Square spawns suck I wish that would of been changed to something like this. 

(http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/1819/square1gb.jpg)

The smoke being right in the middle of the map and then each spawn is equal, the south spawns are on the other side of the wall so you can't spam your GL at the other team.  Maybe add a little more fog to the map and people will be able to manuever around the map better.

The *DBL should of took clan votes on these changes. 

The new Ghost Town changes strongly favor Spawn 4 now.  If you have a game where the Spawns are 3 & 4, the team at Spawn 4 can easily move over and grab the smoke in the 1st 10 secs of the game while the people at Spawn 3 have to come all the way around the hill.  The old Ghost Town spawns teams couldn't grab the smoke early in games this easy.

Also Tanks new Spawn 4 location is gona suck if the other team Spawns at 1,  Spawn 4 will be trapped on their end of the map because Spawn 1 now has more time to run up and cut people off from crossing the bridge.

If you ask me these maps should of been left alone.  There was never a problem with tank in the 1st place.

EDIT: The new spawns on "Chalet" work great but now Spawn 1 has the easiest time getting the smoke at the start of the game, why not move Spawn 1 to the underground of that small house right where the Metal staircase comes upstairs, that would slow those people down from getting the smoke early.

tank: spawn 2 won the game like it was with vilnius spawn 4. that is a problem.
for the moved spawn 1 we actually have to see, yes. the two games ive seen this situation so far spoke for the change in terms that it worked out: both teams meet with the same chance to kill each other or got equal kills. if nade spamming this exit is possible for spawn 1 w/o doin any damage this would be a nono tho. i still dont want to spawn at 4.

ghost town: well, to adjust the balance more to the south spawns and especially spawn 4 was exactly the idea.
so far i didnt make it to the wz w/o dying, tho my team could have played better on these test games. back to the roots of the problem: north spawns control the gt-games because they have so much cover to choose from, making it hard for south spawns to ever get the wz. thats why the wz moved a (little) bit more into the south. now south spawns dont have to move for like 5 seconds in the open (w/o beeing able to see anything on this run), but just 3 seconds like the north spawns now have as well. this should avoid winning cbs because ppl fall out one by one by trying to get the wz against a team that got the wz because they had a north spawn. and while spawn 4 is still in the south they still have worse chances to win. again: i still dont want to spawn at 4.

Lynx there are some ugly things happening on Tank with these changes.  Spawn 1 can now rape Spawn 4 and Spawn 3 can now GL spam down to Spawn 2 while those guys are crossing the river.

The original tank Spawn 2 never had a huge advantage.  You could always camp the smoke from Spawns 3 and 4.  Spawn 1 can even beat it at times if your a good player.

sure spawn 3 can check for 2 but then 2 just has to watch out for them. thats the game. theres no raping on this. and btw, you and me would be way past the river before any 3 can take a look at 2.

if spawn 1 can rape 4 there will be no change on this. nothing ugly to see here either.

play them!

btw a thing i forgot to ask for: try  testing the less played maps too, since there wont be so much input on these.

to punishers comment on chalet: spawn 1 didnt move. why they should get the wz easier when the two changed spawns are closer to it...

Spawn 1 always had the easiest path to getting the WZ, if your equaling out the spawns on all the other maps why not fix that one.  Moving it underground next to the metal staircase would help.

yea i know and see your point. just it changes not much to nothing. you still have to open two doors to get out. if we move it to much below the wz this could turn upside down and make spawn 1 easily campable.

i may like to see on some maps only 2 spanws !! like RS or StrongH like east and west !!

nice idea ghost! red square would be the ideal map for this. keep this idea for a real mod. as far as i can think on this its not possible to implement that now because, you would have to deal with team colors and thats to much for the average joe.

I'm sure Monoman could set it up so gold and red spawn differently at either of these 2 spawns Ghost talks about.

Smoke could be right in the middle - south of the rocks there.... and the 2 spawns at the edges of the map directly opposed to each other.

again, that would be awsome but who wants to handle all the noobs that play with green and red spawns?

I think you guys are arguing under the assumption that maps can be made 100% balanced and fair. I don't think they can. There will always be a spawn that's better than the others and there will be combinations of spawns that puts one team at a disadvantage right away.

I think these new set ups are an overall improvement to maps that certainly had issues. They may present new complexities, but that's what makes it fun. It's a freakin' war game, not a card game.

Good teams/players accept the good with the bad and adapt to the situations presented to them. I think people should just be excited that there are some changes coming to the game and be thankful these guys put some thought into spicing up GhR.

GhR is dead. Long live GhR!

The BL rules specify the colors to be used, even noobs need to use red/gold, so I wouldn't worry!

Everyday (out of BL) use doesn't really concern us.

there we have a different opinion tiro;) i would put it up to the most important point that these changes are idiot-savvy. these are the dbl maps. *everyone* will have them installed, no matter if he plays in the dbl or not or if he just likes to play good games. so this means that siege and assassination and hambuger hill and domination and missions and w/e more has to work with this to some extend - while i agree that the popular gametypes are more important.
since this 2-spawn modification would definately fuck up things if choosen accidently it wont make it to the dbl 3 mod. just ask mono nicely to make it as a seperate download and then you have it.

it would be nice if we could hear some more comments from ppl that actually played these maps from the download...

castle 4 vs 1 doesnt work. we already found an alternative (yay) and have to check on this. mb already tomorrow.

EDIT: we spawned and ran and spawned and ran and 10 more times did this to find the locations invisible from start + same distance to any entry into the castle. marked on the castle map and already included into the download thx to monoman.

alot of little changes and bugfixes are in the current download, so for everyone that already has tested it you may want to update to the current version. all others: your input is appreciated! download and host it a bit!
heres the direct download link: http://monoman.planetrainbowsix.gamespy.com/downloads/DBL_Addon_Beta.sitx

(http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/5720/d07roadblocknz8.png) (http://imageshack.us)(http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/6986/m01cavesta2.png) (http://imageshack.us)

hey croatia,

roadblock: the idea is very interesting. the wz would somewhat be like on farm before the change - impossible to change w/o getting shot. it couldnt be done w/o changing spawns tho, like you already hint to with your moved spawn 1. BUT, the other spawns would need to be changed too. 2 would need to move up on the inner as well, else they would be spwannaded by one if they want to come out, and they cant just move over 3 since then they already lost the wz. 3 would need to move into that ruin then in order to not get pinned down by 2. and since all spawns moved already (1 needed to move a bit lower then btw) spawn 4 had to move a bit closer to wz too.
all in all this would make a new roadblock, where all spawns are on the inside and noone ever would see the outside. this wasnt wanted by the topic but would be a very cool addition!

caves: i dont see how the moved spawn 4 brings anything cool/better to the experience of caves. also, did you play the new wz area extensivly? both (up and down the cliff) sides can now easily change the wz with even chances to die or not to die. that brings a whole new tactic-element into the map. moving the zone back to the old area (tho closer to the bushes) leaves the lower spawns again in a huge disadvantage.

do you agree? pm me if you want.