*DAMN R6 Forum

Theres plenty of time to discuss specifics, but Im tellin ya..I almost vomited when i saw this picture.
Ive seen some pretty big protocol gaffes in my day..but this one takes the cake...by far.
Hope all of you are ready..when the time comes...we're gonna get called up. Like it or not. Its comin.
Heres the first shot. Carefully examine the look on Hu's face.

(http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/6803/hu8tw.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

that was just stupid.. and didn't they play the singapore theme aswell? Or did I get you wrong?


Just look at Bush's face, like a little kid.

hah well, what they did was they announced his presence, by welcoming the president of "The Republic of China"(which um, is the official name for Taiwan) Instead of the People's Republic of China...

woopsie X 2.
eep.
DOH!

sigh.

The NY Times today reported that Chinese officials were outraged over the White House accrediting a reporter who screamed at Mr. Hu from the stands, and mistakenly referring to China by the name of its archrival Taiwan. Adding insult to injury, here’s a picture of Vice President Dick Cheney sleeping during Mr. Hu’s press conference.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2006/04/21/vice-president-cheney-sle_n_19564.html

And there's woopsie #3

Personally, as soon as that Chinese idiot started talking about how Taiwan would never get its independence and how China would unite the island back with mainland China, we should have booted his ass out of the United States.  I can't believe Bush just stood their while he talked that shit.  I would have knocked him out and created an international incident.[/size]

Well, I'm glad you're not our "leader" then GS ;) .... we don't need another war.

Perhaps you'd like some more of my opinions...like the one where I think MacArthur was right and Truman was a pussy.  We should have nuked China's ass during the Korean War when they overran the Korean Peninsula.  Or at the very least, we should have invaded China then.  Then again, take the USSR.  Patton advocated invading the Soviet Union at the end of WWII.  Following Patton and MacArthur's advice might have saved us all a lot of heartache the last 60 years.

Anyhow, back to the topic...we should not sit by and let the idiot from China stand on our soil and spout propoganda about how Taiwan doesn't have the right to exist as a separate entity from mainland China.[/size]

i hope you get nuked and invaded unnecessarily so you can see how it feels.

he left some of that quote out...i think.

I fixed your italics for you, Sheix.  But I had a hard time because I was laughing so hard.  -Lone

We would have gotten our ass handed to us if we had invaded China during the Korean War. They pushed us back all the way to the 38th parallel. Not only that, but Mao was more than happy to use nukes. He knew that he had more of a population, therefore, when MAD came along, he would be more likely to come out on top. He was willing to sacrifice millions of his citizens and endure a nuclear war. Crazy fucker.

WTF do to Hilter and Stalin have to do with this bullshit? If you wanna talk about Chinese atrocities, don't begin with the holocaust. Second of all, since when are we in the buisness of invading countries to free their people, and how does droping nukes on their biggest (30 or 50 - I cant remember) cities free them from the tyrany of communism? Do nukes only kill soldiers and tanks, leaving women and children unharmed? NO. So stop spouting that bullshit that we should invade them to free them, it's racist, ignorant, and makes you look like a fool.

Psh. We need leaders that are not afraid to kick some ass  ::)

Your probably right. What I dont understand is, since we dont want to risk nuclear war - why dont we just assasinate all the fuckers we dont like? I mean shit... we have the resources so why not just pop the political fuckers out of existance and impose our influence? Sounds simpler than fighting bigs wars all over the world thinning out our forces... I dont know. Maybe I am wrong. Im open to constructive critisicm on this one for sure, cause I am truely curious. Why not?

ffs, ATLEAST TELL ME WHY ?!

My girlfriend's a reporter; ethnic Chinese from Hong Kong and she had an interesting perspective on all of this. 

Chinese public statements and public events are all "face" events.  That is, they may be stating something that seems ridiculous, but they feel the need to continue stating it in order to maintain face.  Take statements about Taiwan for example.  China would pack up the rhetoric and go away is Taiwan formally stated the were back in China's China.  They'd probably hold a handshake photo-op and Taiwan would be left alone from then on.  The issue, then, isn't the reality on the ground -- whether or not Taiwan is governed indepedant of China -- but what Taiwan SAYS it is doing.  Will Taiwan submit publicly to China's will?  That's what China is most concerned about, which is also why Taiwan making noises about formally declaring independance is so offensive to the Chinese people and their government -- it's literally a public state to state insult.  Anyway, don't take their comments about Taiwan terribly seriously.  It's like Bush saying we're winning in Iraq.  It has to be said even though it's absurd.

I can't decide what pisses me off about Bush more: that he held a pomp and circumstances state event for China or that he fucked it up so badly.  China does not deserve to be treated with the level of respect we show, say, Canada; but they get the 21 gun salute and a parade of revolutionary war reenactors anyway.  Toping it off, Bush grabs him on stage, gets him heckled, the translator calls China Tiawan, and they play the Taiwanese national anthem.

How do you manage to pack so much fuck up in one event, Mr. Bush?


As for nuking China in the mid 50's or Russia in '45... Ghostsniper has once again demonstraited the corruption of the wingnut mind. 
1) We hate these nations because they are Brand Evil. 
2) That's why we'll nuke them, killing millions. 
America has fallen from grace because nuts like Ghostsniper are in power. 

And invading China and Russia should be considered an exceptionally stupid and corrupt idea.  Ghost knows his history, so he knows better.   Such invasions worked out well before, haven't they?  Then toss nukes into the mix?  Jesus - I'm just glad Ghost's selling cars and not in a command position.

Ghost has also previously demonstraited his support for torture and murder.  But he only likes it when American uniformed soldiers are doing the "good work".  A real Christian soldier he is.


Panda: Do you think our leaders are immune to assassination? 

Well...
a. i cant even begin to describe how unethical and wrong it is
b. sets a horrible precedent
c. of course, we did do it during the cold war. Installing such dictators in several countries because they were anti-communist...nevermind that they were facist.

but mostly, I don't think one just goes around assassinating heads of state. that might just be me though.

Doing that, makes people like us even less. Why does Iran hate us? Because we sponsored a coup against their prime minister and installed the Sha. In fact, we do that in a lot of countries around the world and it never seems to workout quite the way we plan. When was the last time we fought a "big" war anyways? The real issue however is that American buisness has a problem when the people in the countries they are operating begin assasinating the fucktard buisness men.

So to go back to what you're saying, we've been trying your strategy for more then 50 years and it just plain doesn't work. GG we lose.

GhostSniper is DAMN's Ann Coulter...

He does what I do. Play the Devil's advocate..becuase theres no way in shit Ill ever believe that all of a sudden (despite being a military guy) he's taken Rumsfelds simplified Armageddon view of the world...which Ill remind you spits in the face of the military historians view of the world..And the views of all those generals lined up asking for impeachment procedings, becuase the best advice of the BEST military men in the world, was thrown out the window. GhostSniper is defending the Men that spit in the face of HIS military leaders...for being correct...by his reasoning that we all have to hop to and toe Bush?Cheneys?Rumsfelds lines.

Those 4 star generals are all traitors and commies too right, Ghost?

Great for a forum kickup, and perhaps...suitable for someone who doesnt have kids (dont know if he does or not) but he knows just like the rest of the world, that empires dont survive when theyre spread thin like butter on toast. Technically, we arent spread that thin right now, but two engagments like Iran and China, and we are. Spread thinner'n Frog hair, as grandpa used to tell me..


Me? Im cursed with viewing the Human angle, which has forced me to recognize that our government is not really based on Humnaitarian or Human welfare principles..its just the Sales Pitch. I mean who the fuck REALLY believes we're there to help Liberate the Iraqis and show them the shining path to democracy? Fuck no, we're there to sow unrest, to hold off the Pan-Arab Unity..and its working Brilliantly..

 I even buy parts of america's pitch..but not the CORE of it..the Core that drives our foreign policy...Nothing to do whatsoever with what America USED to be about. The America his historical fighters were dying over. Not even remotely. I hope deep inside he realizes that, while hes busy patronizing us with all his Soundbyte justifications..and calling intelligent concerned Americans Communist sympathisers.
Thats weak even for him.

If hes serious..hes a fucking moron.
Im almost positive hes not...
Hes hiding his intelligence behind that incindiery bs, becuase it riles everyone up.
Well, he cant rile me..not at all. Im three steps ahead of those weak arguments.

See, Might makes right...up to a point..then....it becomes a better policy to recognize that you arent the only tough motherfucker in the room. Heres a small example... Russia flew a FLEET...yes ENTIRE FUCKING FLEET of 8 bombers over Alaska last week..undetected by the McMurdo  stations or Norad. We didnt see shit, and they flew around in circles for SIX HOURS OVER THE STATE OF ALASKA. One would think that the best Military in the WORLD (as per GS) that we would have seen them and scrambled. We didnt.

Not to mention the Sunburn missiles they are selling in MAD numbers to the iranians which are PROVEN unstoppable by our Aegis Phalanyx anti missile technolgy for ships in the gulf...where our ENTIRE fucking fifth fleet is sitting..

So you all make up your own conclusions. I would be preparing defensively, not offensively..and i certainly wouldnt have burned outr entire budget surplus, and spend 13 BILLION dollars a month in a country where we can really do no more good...and i wouldnt be openeing up strategic reserves for the RightWing Hummer Drivers, that are convinced God has told them that the end is near..and that Armageddon is somehow a good thing. it wont be.

it's very frustrating that all your pro-war fucks would rather spend some odd billion dollars on a war killing people when we have people starving in our streets. why would you want to invade other countries or even think about it when we can't even take care of ourselves ? it's hard for me to believe that we can "help" other countries before help ourselves.

Capitalism requires a layer of undertrodden to operate effectively or else wages rise too quickly.

And we arent trying to help them.
We are tying to ensure that they have a healthy supply of undertrodden too, evidently.

Healthy Happy Labor makes for demanding, aggressive, and violent labor.

Hate to correct your history here, but I feel I must...

1.  We could have taken China at that time...it would have simply required mobilizing our immense reserves the way we did during WWII.

2.  China did not push us "all the way to the 38th parallel...they pushed us far further south than that, retaking Seoul in the process!

3.  Mao did not have nukes at that time, so he could not have been "more than happy to use nukes". [China did not explode its first atomic bomb until October 16, 1964...about 11 years after the Korean War ended]

Now then, go back to history class and try again.   ;)

Peace.

-GhostSniper Out.[/size]

Gen William C. Westmoreland said: "The military don't start wars. Politicians start wars."

So GS.. is that the "Politician" or "Military Historian" coming out of you?

Erm, does anyone here realize we need china and russian to force Iran into submission.  This was the point of all this. We are playing the world politics game. You snooze one when you need em, you crap on their lawn when you don't.  Guess it comes down to which enemy you feel is the lesser evil. Right now i have to agree Iran is the larger threat. Without china most of our manufactured goods go bye bye and we lose a lot of american money and interests.  You have to look at the bigger picture. China and the US both need each other eventhough china is looking to be the next superpower to face off against the US.

Hrm, sry Ghost looks like I'm a little shakey. The nukes thing is true, I just must have gotten the dates wrong.

How did this thread turn from another case of Bush being a dumbass to talk about invading China?

dont the two go hand in hand?

Well, GS dumped the 'invading china' line into this, when really, i was just pointing out the coming 'awkward' geopolitical moments over Hu's treatment.

Im surprised at two more items..

No one so much as flinched over the fact that russia Flew a FLEET of advanced longe Range Bombers without so much as a Radar Blip from McMurdo or Norad over Alaska....for SIX HOURS.

Also telling is GS completely ignoring the issue of the Thirteen Generals standing up to the presidents approach to IRAQ and IRAN on Moral and Legal grounds. Are they Traitors, Liberals, Satanists or Heros?

I need to know where he stands when faced with such a huge dilemma.
The military trains to respond to orders from the Commander in Chief, and Bush being a Christian and all, GS is likely to defend his actions as beyond reproach on those grounds, BUT....what about when a unified team of Military Heros and Professionals trained and minded like him (who practically RAN the military during his time of service), stands up, at risk to career and Pension to object to a Commanders' execution of foreigh policy.

Is he with the Generals or the President?

Is a civilian (Rumsfeld) MORE qualified to make battlefield calculations than GS's former military leadership...(Zinni and Franks are counted among the 13)

I can see where (as a Rabid, Nuke the stupid fuckers, type of Christian) he would make the case that since Bush has been told by GOD to push ahead with both maneuvers; Logical, Legal and humanitarian objections to these actions would be Satanic in nature.

Stand Up...Clarify.

Simple, huh? 


True.


Mao did not have nukes but his patron state Russia did.  You are ignoring what a Russian response to a US nuclear attack and invasion of China would have been. 

Finally, you do know better.  Invading China was certainly within our ability.  What, then, where the objectives?  Regime change?  "Liberation" of the people (who's civil war enemies were were alied with)?  To occupy the coasts?  In the end, no matter what our objectives would have been they would have failed.  The US lacks the will for wars of aggression.  It's manpower is not endless.  And our technological lead was slimmer in the 50's than it is today.  Invading China is one hell of a fool's wet dream. 



She, got a link to that russian flight story?

Here is the setup to it. they have been probing for some time.
We did an intercept as read here in 99 and again in August of '01.

http://www.jamestown.org/publications_details.php?volume_id=22&&issue_id=1622

And the reference to the actual flight is dated the 24th.
There was a more detailed press statement by a Russian General Igor Khvorov that claimed that the bombers not only navigated the Arctic Straight but flew bombing patterns at 40,000 feet over land.
The detailed article was posted on Pravda on the 23, but appears to have been removed.
These are all that i could dig up on short notice.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/2006/russia-060422-rianovosti01.htm

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20060422/46792049.html

Although it is true that Russia had already detonated a nuke by that time (they exploded their first one on August 24, 1949), they certainly didn't have the ability to wage a nuclear war at the time that the Chinese crossed into Korea and pushed the U.N. Forces back south of the 38th Parallel.

Score another for the guy with the degree in history.[/size]  ;)

Slam dunking the simplest, Most Off-Topic issue in my thread and bypassing all the tricky ones is not considered a score.

Oh, I don't care much for the general discussion...I don't think we should have invited the Chinese idiot here in the first place.  But I feel it my duty to correct historical innacuracies in posts wherever I find them.[/size]  ;)

Sorry you werent up to the challenge of simply stating your opinion on a tricky issue.

And that kids, is why Neocons cant debate their way out of a wet paper bag...or Won't.
They get trapped in there gettin their asses kicked with all the sticky details..and facts and shit.
Throw 'em a moral curveball, and they freeze...despite their big ole christian hearts...

Take it as SOLID proof that even THEY cant defend the ideals they are bashing you over the heads with.

....and thats coming from a republican.

I guess trading Europe for taking a bite out of China seems worth it to Ghost.

If only we could nuke all our enemies, eh?

Oh, you didn't see where I wrote this:?[/size]


THAT is my opinion...we should not tolerate someone coming in this country who advocates torture and murder in his own country, plus the abolishment of neighboring countries.  That's just how I feel, sorry.

Personally, I think that the way he was treated while he was here was done ON PURPOSE, in order to make him lose face.[/size]  ;)

But President Bush and the CIA not only advocating torture of our own and foreign citizens, but re-defining the definition of torture and actively engaging in it is alright in your view?

Fucking hipocritical bullshit.

THAT is my opinion...we should not tolerate someone coming in this country who advocates torture and murder in his own country, plus the abolishment of neighboring countries.  That's just how I feel, sorry.

Personally, I think that the way he was treated while he was here was done ON PURPOSE, in order to make him lose face.[/size]  ;)


Chinese must of said the same thing when "Baby Bush" visited China back in Nov 20,2005
(Remember when he couldn't find the door?)

(http://mywebpages.comcast.net/duncanblack/bd5.jpg)

Ah, No Prob GS..i thought you were actually reading the posts..

I wasnt even remotely talking about China, when asking your opinion.
I was asking about the thirteen generals rallying against Bush..and whether you thought they were Traitors or Heros..

all good ....

nexxt.

Gotta love the excuses.

We fucked it up on purpose!  See, we're not incompetent - we're so brilliant you can't even BEGIN to understand our brilliance!  Look at out how our Dear Leader shamed the Chinese despot! 

Nevermind he really just shamed all of us.  Again.

Who's fault is that?  People like Ghost's.

Oh, I should listen to the thirteen generals against him, instead of the thousand that support him?  Now that don't make no sense at all.[/size]

Your'e quite the enigma, wrapped in a noodle.

Ive not heard ONE military buff EVER say theyd favor and back a war dodging civie drafting war plans over the objections of company men. Supporting Rumsfeld sounds more nuts to me..but thanks you for your honest opinion..sorry for baiting so hard.

Oh , man was watching it on cnn pipeline.... I cant believe it, what a disgrace....  Of  course this happened after Hu Jintao Humiliated the Entire US by visiting THE ENEMY(bill gates) before the president of the USA. Well im not to mad about that... This may offset relations with China for a long time..... and It will be more dificult to endure talks about Balance of Trade, And their long time controversy over Taiwan...

Yes, this is just one more example of Bush dropping the ball on diplomatic relations. However, at the end of the day (or term in this case) Europe, China, etc is not going to flat out bail on the United States. If we get a leader with some degree of tact and actual interest in the concerns or cares of others, it will not take long to heel rifts.

As to China specifically...there is a really good chapter about them in the book "Why Geography Matters?" by Harm de Blij. Basically, China certainly can't be ignored, but it is also problematic to fear them as the next Soviet Union (granted, it was also problematic to fear the Soviet Union in the way we did). Rather than take a bellicose line, we just need to keep friendly relations and apply soft pressure in the right direction. Unlike Bush, I have more confidence in democracy to win out, we don't need to push it, we just need to encourage and nurture it, even when it doesn't always look promising to us such as with Hugo Chavez or Hamas winning democratic power.