*DAMN R6 Forum

I don't know about anyone else, but the GameRanger lag issue has gotten so bad lately, has the *DBL considered making all CB's played on IP hosts the rest of the season and thru the Final's?  There are some clans that don't like IP joining and seem to prefer the laggy gameranger voice games over IP joining, which is the reason I'm asking this.  I know there is a beta version of GameRanger going around thats supposed to be better but it's really not and nothing can match the lag free games you get when IP joining.  Theres a signifcant difference in how smooth the CB's are when IP joining compared to Gameranger.  Use an outside voice application if you must, I know voice is an issue with IP games but thats why we agree with the clans we face that noone will use voice for the CB.  Lag free CB's without voice is the way to go, I'd like to see how other clans play without the luxury of using voice, without dead people telling you enemy locations "dead body sensors", playing Ghost Recon the way it was meant to be played.  I'm only posting this as a temporary solution until GameRanger is completely fixed and back to being its old self.

Very true Punisher.. but heck.. thats what we spent $50.00 for Premium.

Yep thats why I'm posting this as a temporary solution like the *DBL did earlier in the season, because right now we're paying $50 for lag, with IP joining people can still use their seperate voice applications if they wish to.

I don't trust Ip joining.
It would be too easy for some one to join on a PC
and we all know what that can bring.

a mac can bring same things i guess....

just how bad is it and has Scott said anything about the status of the problem??

How bad is it?  Unplayable.   I have a dual 2.3ghz G5 Powermac......2.5 ghz RAM, ATI Radeon 9800Pro 256MB Graphics card....8mb down 1.5 mb up net connection....i consitently get 60+ fps in GhR...and a wicked case of warp...including servers with pings under 100.  It is disgraceful.  I didn't have half the warp on my dual 800 g4.  I have been playing this game for about 4 years now, and if at any time when I first started playing, the warp/lag was this bad, I would have never have gotten so into the game.

As far as ip joining for cb's, I would vote for a yes.....we did one with *NRG the other night.  It went fine(actually they slapped us up like a red-headed step child (Dark) ), but there were no lag issues to speak of.  If you gys are worried about no voice com....try out Teamspeex, nf or KDX. ts.macgamenet.com for Teamspeex. 

You know who you could trust....it would be an honor system between the clans.  But I would go either way on this.

As far as a solution, I know that Evill is working on the solution.  We tried out a few tests on ferret's server. It was much better, but after a while it starts up again.  Don't quote me on this, but if I am not mistaken, I think someone mentioned something about packet loss.  So as we speak he is trying to figure out the cure.

This is a definite issue that maybe all the clanleaders need to discuss, since we are nearing the end of our spring tourney.  This issue will just become worse as more is at stake towards the end.

If it were up to me GR is the way to go..totally prefer the personality of it instead of the distant non-personal feel of ip joining, but until GR issues are resolved my preferred method will be by ip...

If people are worried about PC people joining the games you can always request a random cheat test sometime during the CB.  I don't see how anyone could possibly prefer the laggy Gameranger the way it is right now vs. IP joining.

As far as I know as long as both clans agree it's alright... so technicly you can do it whatever way you want  just take screenshots to avoid the bs.

PLus we can give the server pw to the players involved in the cb

As I understand it, the issue with the Ghost Recon lag has a lot to do with bandwidth distribution. I could be wrong, but so far that’s what we’ve been testing i.e joiners/leavers, voice traffic, number of players etc. So theoretically, we have to treat this as being totally separate to how we treated our servers prior to 4.5. You need to take certain factors into consideration when hosting I think.

Try the following when your lag is bad :

 
1. Avoid netfone and other such applications.

2. Rduce the number of players you have if lag is bad.

3. Make sure your room descriptions are clear, so players who don’t have the necessary mods don’t keep trying to join (even though we know some players take a little longer to figure such things out anyway lol)

4. Keep voice traffic to a minimum, especially when a map is trying to load.

5. Change kit restrictions whenever necessary

6. As hard as it may be for some – Avoid “spamming”

7. Avoid using the MM1 (players have noticed this having an impact on the server)

8. Remind players not to join/leave unnecessarily.

9. Also take into consideration the number of high pingers in your server. (perhaps do some of the above restrictions to combat this)

10. Depending on lag, avoid having spawns

11. Avoid observers

This is all I can think of for now and I know there’s a lot to take into consideration here, but you can’t treat your servers as you did prior to 4.5. This is an unfortunate situation, which I assure you Evill is working on as hard as possible to fix. Unfortunately, due to the large number of complaints and issues arising from this update, the new fixed update won’t be released until it is FINISHED, so rushing Evill and pushing him to release it as soon as possible won’t help matters.

As far as clan battles are concerned, we had a discussion in the admin section and decided if both clans agree then we can allow clan battles via ip joining. You obviously take the responsibility of trusting the other clan when you agree on this.

So far the clan battles my clan and myself have played we’ve not incurred a lot of lag problems. Just remember you can refuse a host and perhaps look at finding a dedicated host. Of course that takes a lot of time to setup, so make up your minds as quick as possible and move on to a new host if necessary. Think ahead – if split hosting then test both servers before the cb. The auto-timer was mandatory to avoid cb’s dragging out too long for the scheduled cb’s but no one seems to be following this. Keep it in mind that if your cb is running out of time, then put that 5 min auto-timer on.

I'm with you on this Punisher.  Voice is much more useful while alive then dead...I use it to pass info without getting chat killed.

A note on Evill and Gameranger:  WHY CAN'T HE ROLL BACK GAMERANGER TO THE LAST KNOWN WORKING VERSION WHILE HE TROUBLESHOOTS THE NEXT VERSION?  WHY MUST WE SUFFER?  DOES HE REMEMBER WE PAID HIM FOR GAMERANGER?

Actually, premium features is what you pay for. Playing a game on gameranger is totally free.

Isn't that like saying "you bought the airline ticket to get from point A to point B, you never paid for your safety."  Us paying for Gameranger gives us the inherent right to demand a workable product.

Evill-lover  ::sniper::

You know that all of us (as in *DAMN members) bought premium because of the game... so in part, we are paying for the gameplay.

The issue has been a lot worse than I initially thought, I can't play on Cell's server at all now when it has 8 people in it when he hosts on GameRanger... but he can host 36 normally and it runs pretty good.  So even if we follow your 11 tips, it won't make much difference at all.  I'm just hoping every clan is as cool as *nRg when it comes to agreeing to an ip host.

these lag issues have nothing to do with the use of nf, or any of the listed things you put tigah...those have always been issues, and the game has still been playable.  This lag issue is new, and it makes the game completely unplayable.  This isnt the same as the regular gay lag that comes with Ghost Recon.

as for IP cb's.....IP should definitely be considered, temporarily while they work on fixing the gameranger bugs.  Once it's fixed, go back to gameranger. 

That was before, this is now. My list was merely SUGGESTIONS to help ease these lag issues, I never said they were the cause. The new lag issues are bandwidth related, meaning everything that sucks up bandwidth on a server, does so even worse now. Whether we like it or not, we are stuck with this until the new version is released. So you can carry on and not change the way you handle a server or you can take some of my suggestions into consideration when you experience unplayable lag.

OR....you could do what we are suggesting (ip joining), and have next to no lag at all.  Even less lag than gameranger was before, when it was just 'standard lag'

Twist, you can ip join. The ability to ip join was never restricted as long as both sides agree. We aren't the ones you should be trying to convince we support whatever helps the BL run smoothly. Some people feel safer  playing through gameranger others don't. Ask your opponent to ip host out of GR, if they say ya great, if not suck it up and play it through GR.

So go ahead and IP join no one is stopping you, as long as both clans agree

There should be a set rule that each clan can choose its own method of hosting for CB's.  So if clans agree on a split host for a CB, the clan that wants to use GameRanger for their hosting can use that while the clan that wants to use IP joining can use that when its their turn to host. 

It's ridiculous to force us to play on LagRanger just because the opposing clan prefers it, half the kills in the CB will probably be the result of lag.

I thin kwe need to collectively tell Evill to fricking fix his fricking piece of gnarl program.  If Adobe or Apple released such an unusable update I guarantee they'd either roll back to known working/good version or fix it ASAP.

Evill  ::sniper::

Though I have lots of respect for Evill, I have to agree to a point... a lot of us pay for GameRanger, why not just move it back to the working version until the current one is fixed?

don't overlook punisher's post.  This really should be a set rule.  (or at least a temporary rule while they are fixing the GR issues).  On a split host, the clan has the option of hosting through gameranger, or via ip.  If a clan is paranoid about playing through ip (which i don't understand why...what difference does it make?)..then ask for ss's.  Its not like you cant do a cheat test on an ip host.

I have to agree with this! Why is it so difficult to just move to the previous working version?

I have been hosting IP games, and everyone seems to be having  a great time once again.....

Until this issue of lag is fixed, I will keep hosting IP games, and posting a room in Game Ranger to let everyone know when it's open!

I suggested this to evill on the RvS side....when it wasnt working at all.  And that is exactly what he did.  He went back to the previous working version so we could play RvS.  Dunno why he wont do this with GhR....

Because the in-game communication is fundamentally different than Ghost Recon.. He's attempting to fix GhR to make it work w/o the port forwarding. Believe me, after it is complete.. RvS may be next to be in the "working" phase. He stands by his product and we just have to suck it up for a bit.

The only issue I see with ip joining is that it is easier to cheat durring ip games since there is no GR detecting cheats. If people do go about having ip games, I would suggest that the host save all replays weather they are asked for or not to avoid any complications.

Ein

i thought we talked about this long time ago already :

ip joining doesnt bring more cheats or cheaters, u can cheat the same with a mac or a pc !!! u can also run a pc b4 the mac as a router and use sniffers to get datas from ghr and for exemple see where is every one ... for exemple !!!
 but on some pcs 5 years ago u could find these programs and they still exist i gave a long time ago already links and other app away.

SO u can avoid cheaters i now know that

So ip joining is not a big deal, but u cant change the rule in middle of a season, i got screwed 3 times this season because of lag issue and split games!! so why now we should change, now its my turn to screw some one like *energy and W that screw us last time

And season should end as it start

Ghost- everybody has had the same shitty lag TRIBE has.... don't act like a victim.  Just because you want revenge, we can't change a rule to help every clan on the GhR ladder?.... sounds selfish to me.

I say we change the rule so that if a clan wants to cb via ip they can do so for half the cb if the other clan refuses.  I see no reason why one clan should have play by another clans rules... right now if a clan refuses to cb by ip, then what? the other clan gets screwed over?

It's not like this is some major rule change like adding a mappack mid-season ;) ... all this does is decrease the lag problem.  We all know this would benefit every GhR clan on the ladder... why are we even discussing it?  Just do it, make it more fair.

I agree 100% with Luna's post. *NRG has NO problem with IP joining against cO, PO, [a], W,or the E's. *NRG does not use any other type of Voice software except for GameRanger. If the 2 clans agree on IP Joining and agree NO voice.. no problem. Level playing field.

I'm also ok with ip joining. But 7in definitively won't play without voice.
I suggest you, Macuber and all others who arn't used to voice over ip applications, to take a look at Teamspeex (http://www.savvy.nl/blog/). It's the best temporary solution that you can get for now.

Voice is a powerful weapon and while it might be nice to play without everone yelling (left! left! no, other left!) in your ear, I doubt many would want to give up voice for CBs.

Does TeamSpeex have a server side app?  I thought is was only client side at this time.  TeamSpeak does not run on mac, so you have to set up a PC TeamSpeak server and use TeamSpeex for the client side.

TeamSpeex does work well with PC TeamSpeak servers.  There's always NetFone and IChat (Tiger only for multiple connections?).

http://www.savvy.nl/blog/download/

Thx to MacGameNet (http://www.macgamenet.com), the Mac Community has it's own server [macgamenet.com].

Thanks Tin I just tried it and it works great

Ok Tin.. I have downloaded Teamspeex, and have requested a Registered Channel from Bt's. Dunno how long that takes but will have *NRG try it out as well. Thanks for the headsup. (Just hope Evill will FIX GR)

HO sry i didnt explain myself well anouth i dont blame the lag we all do

i blame the fact that we change in middle of season

we did 2 rounds until u guys wakeup about that so now i hope we will end it the way it is and this time WE WILL START TO HOST and after we will split !!!!!

Um we didn't screw you, you guys "attempted" to screw us, you we're hosting and closed the room in the middle of a game when we had possession of the Warzone, you then tried to argue that the room crashed and the game should be replayed, shortly after that you then changed what you said and then told us an  admin told you to close the room.  Last time I checked you can't shut down a room in the middle of a game and then request that the game should be replayed, so don't trash *NRG for your own problem.

I don't think anyone could of predicted this GameRanger update was coming, if clans prefer the lag on GameRanger over IP joining so be it, but don't be bitching and complaining when its the lag that costs your clan a kill or a win. 
In my opinion IP joining helps every single clan, your basically playing lag free clan battles and you still can use voice with the Teamspeex. 
Also keep in mind its the higher ranked clan of the CB that makes the decision who hosts 1st.

once again... I don't see your logic at all.  This is something that could be changed mid-season with no great effect on anyone.  I don't really give a flying f*ck if you guys got screwed over, you want to keep it laggy for every other clan because you have to get back at the clans that supposedly screwed you over? come on... that's lame as hell.

Wao

first i sware on my girl that the game crashed and i dont give a F..K what u say, i never lyied here like some do !!

sencond yes and admin "lynx" said that after the split first and after the crash 15mn after the split that the game should not continue!!  so we got screwed cause after agreeing on a fair splited game we did 4 games on ur host and one on our host!!!

when we splited LYNX tald me that the game was over and at this time it was only 2-2-0 so it should have been a draw and because i think it was stupid i didnt listen to him then when we where 3-2-0 the game crashed and u clame victory that is not what i was used to with nrg guys thats what i want to say, we could have finished this game an other time but u didnt want !!!
 and i remember that ur clan asked 5 lag test all together and thats also why the time was over

SO WE WILL FINISH the season as it started and on every single other cb we will start to host and if time is over after 5 games and u dont have a chance to host i wount care more !!!

got it ?


ps punisher dont insult me with telling i'm a lyer cause its rude and anpolit i proved here that i never lyed and that i always gave the right infos since the last 4 years !!

We all had to struggle with the lag. I don't get your point at all. It's not like some clans have already played all their cbs and would get screwed cuz of this litte rule change. Anyhow you are mainly refering to a CB which was aborted cuz you exceed the time deadline. This is offtopic, it has abosulty nothing to do with the rule change that punisher suggests. ::wall:: Whatever, I'm glad that is not up to you what we are gonna do about this lag issuse. ;)

edit: Can we play CBs like Punisher suggests? Did the DBL Admins accepted it finally?

a little selfish are we?

The voting is almost split 50/50

I'm gonna create 3 new accounts to get ip joining ahead.

There shouldn't even be a vote... the only arguement against it right now is "we want revenge on the clans that screwed us over" ::lol::

Well that, and the whole cheating and voice issues.  But with ts being discovered by many recently I don't see much of a problem.

Ghost:  If you read the proposition you will see you can choose to host on your host (if the other clan agrees to your host)... Nevertheless, if you want to play your half of the cb on gameranger this rule would allow you to do so.

Cheating shouldn't even be an issue with IP joining, everyone knows you can call a cheat test.  I don't even think voice communication is an issue either, just use the team speex Tin mentioned, it works great and there's no lag.
The only things I see preventing the rule are people believing "We payed $50 for premium so we're using it" and the lazy ass's who can't take the time to type in an IP address to join a server, also Ghosts pathetic reason as Luna mentioned.

I have been testing a new version of GR (4.5.2).  It has absolutely no problems that I came across...  All the lag is gone.. no choppiness... no warpage... no more joining issues... 

It solved every issue that we currently have.

It should be coming out soon.

punisher it has been explain and debated and proven that cheat test wont work on ip joining with a skilled cheater
but personaly i dont mind if people are cheating cause if i think they are i wont even ask for a cheat test i will just stop playing them, like i already avoid some glitchers and more...

and i guess after what kitkat said there is no more argument and lets just wait and see

The *DBL  won't change this rule midseason, because important enough reasons have been named to finish the season as it started: mainly GameRanger Voice. Some clans depend on this feature and we won't take it away midseason. However as Tigah posted here: you are free to both agree to IP join, or do it like Punisher posted it, but per default the entire cb will be played in GameRanger.