About the FFA Ladder...

[BTs_GhostSniper]

Okay, here are a few of my observations about the FFA Ladder this season:

1. The scoring system is way too biased towards ladder rank.  Just about every time I play now I lose points, even though I may win 3 out of the 4 maps.  But if I come in even 2nd on one map, I lose the whole thing.  I know it would be a bit different if I were playing people a lot higher on the ladder, but those people never play...which brings me to my 2nd point...

2. Maybe there should be point deductions for NOT playing.  I've seen this on some ladders, where if you don't play for a set period of time on the ladder, you start to lose points.  I think this might solve some of the problem with people who are on the top of the ladder not playing.

3. As it is now, I can't get anyone within 200 points of me to play me, so I end up playing FFA's with people who are on the bottom of the ladder.  Again, if I even come in 2nd on one of the 4 maps, I lose the whole thing.  Maybe instead of looking at each individual map as a game, the script should average the placing on the 4 maps first and then look at it as one game.  That sounds a lot more fair to me.

So, if the script was changed to this, a match would look something like this:

Map 1

1. GhostSniper
2. Nomad
3. TiroFino

Map 2

1. Nomad
2. GhostSniper
3. TiroFino

Map 3

1. TiroFino
2. GhostSniper
3. Nomad

Map 4

1. GhostSniper
2. Nomad
3. TiroFino

Now, the way the ladder works now, in that one map where Nomad came in First, and I came in Second, I would lose the whole match because Nomad is near the bottom of the ladder.  The way I'm suggesting it, is that the script average the 4 maps first, then come up with a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc, place finish.  So, the scoring for this same match would look like this:

1st--GhostSniper
2nd--Nomad
3rd--TiroFino


Okay, I'm done.  Tell me what you think, cause I really love this ladder.  Even with the scoring the way it is, I just keep on playing and keep on losing points because I love this game style.

Peace.

-GhostSniper Out.

[*DAMN Mauti]

Well what shall I say GhostSniper that's on purpose that you gonna lose always points against very low ranked clans because the chance that you win is that high. The script actually forces you to play against players in your range let's say +/- 200 points. You can't hardly compromise point differences with tons of cbs. Actually in the FFA against Shade you could have made many points but there you lost 3times. So when you play against very low ranked clans you have to win all 4 games to get points. The other possibility is that you play very big FFAs then whenever you get second you lose less points and may also win points when you don't become 1st all 4 games.

Of course if players in your range are inactive it's stupid, but nevertheless the scoring works as it should. All other players have the same troubles so if they would play they have hardly no other chance than to play against you as well.

About your idea about inactivity - good one - may it will be done when I finish my complete *DBL rewrite in october. Until this we have some changes in mind that will make such a feature needless. We are currently thinking about to shorten the season so you would have no time to get inactive. But more about this another time.

Bye,

Mauti

[NiKLoT]

i think GS 2nd point is a great idea, maybe that would save the rvs ffa ladder, cuz at the moment no one is playing it... 

Oh ya and we need a rule change for the rvs ffa cuz its stupid that u have to restart every match to c who is 1st 2nd etc.

[*DAMN Mauti]

Indeed - the RvS settings will be adjusted for the next season.

[BTs_GhostSniper]

Well what shall I say GhostSniper that's on purpose that you gonna lose always points against very low ranked clans because the chance that you win is that high. The script actually forces you to play against players in your range let's say +/- 200 points. You can't hardly compromise point differences with tons of cbs. Actually in the FFA against Shade you could have made many points but there you lost 3times. So when you play against very low ranked clans you have to win all 4 games to get points. The other possibility is that you play very big FFAs then whenever you get second you lose less points and may also win points when you don't become 1st all 4 games.

Right, but if it averaged the 4 games first, and then counted it like 1 game, and then used the script you have now for scoring, I think it would be a lot more fair.  Say, I played a game with 3 people ranked at the bottom of the ladder, and after you averaged the 4 games I came in 2nd or 3rd, not 1st...hey, I would say I need to lose some points for that.  But to play 4 games, come in 1st on 3 of the maps, and 2nd on one of the maps, and then come out losing points just doesn't sound right to me.  And this is the feeling I'm getting from some of the other people on the ladder as well (I was having this discussion with some of the people on the bottom and the middle of the ladder and they agreed with me).  I mean, I'm good...but hell, having to win all 4 maps is hard sometimes!  lol

[Ein]

I'd like to just take a moment to confirm what GS is saying. I noticed this problem early on in this FFA season and spoke to GS about it then to compare notes. At the time, GS's comments were something to the effect of "yeah... it's Mauti's new system... hard to understand right now. We'll see how it goes." 

At the time, GS didnt seem to concerned but he wasnt at the top of the ladder then and I suppose it didnt effect him as much at that point.

But it is true. Should we refuse to participate in a FFA because the members involved are not ranked high enough and we risk losing points if we lose a single game? It seems that this would prevent people from wanting to FFA but GS has been loyaly sticking it out hosting a FFA room almost every night. Personally, I believe he is responcible for the success of this ladder.

I had also thought of GS's idea of counting the 4 rounds average as the final score to determine who gets the points. It just seems to make more sense to me. Why should each round give you points? The FFA is not over yet so no points should be awarded for winning a round. Points should only be awarded based on the outcome of the FFA, not the rounds. Therefore, the average of the 4 rounds would determine the winner of the FFA overall and who should get the points.

Ein

[*DAMN Mauti]

The system is so designed that you play people at your skill level! Then you don't lose any points if you come in first 3 times and once lose. It only happens when you take on low ranked members. If you have a mixed set of players you also would gain points.

As explained above in the mixed cb vs Shade and Nomad cb there he would have gained points.

It's not that you don't play, it's about that you play more often in your skill region.

Easy as that.

Bye,

Mauti

[:MoD:Shade]

:MoD:Nomad just had a good idea that he mentioned to me.

What if we have like a decay period if your inactive like Blizzard does on their standings ladder.  Say in the FFA if you don't participate for a few weeks, you will gradually start loosing points until you FFA again.  This way the leader of the FFA has to keep playing and risk loosing points and not just get in first and sit there.

[*DAMN Mauti]

As said it's a good idea and will be implemented when I have rewritten the complete *DBL code.

Bye,

Mauti

[~Po~ TiroFino]

Ahhhh Hello guys,

I'm enjoying a nice vacation right now in Orlando...its been great! I will be back home the 20th, and will start playing as usual!

As for the changes, Im all for the implementation of a system that deducts points to inactivity...Make sure that in order for a clan (player) to be considered "active", he is challenging those close to him in the ladder...if not, a very high ranked would just benefit from playing a very low one  to stay "active", and that´s just not right... force clans to play frequently vs. clans ranked +- 1 or 2 spots of where they are.... make the deductions for inactivity, proportional to the amount of points they have....say 10%. That would get things going....

[BTs_Lee.Harvey]

I have also stopped playing as many FFA's b/c of the point system going the way it is.... Even though im middle ranked.. I have gotten 2 first place, one 2nd place and one 3rd place in a FFA b4.. and ended up loosing like 20 points. I tought when i was an admin we were trying to figure out ways to get more CD/Maches played.. This is realy starting to make alot of peeps who have played alot of FFA.. BC they enjoy playing FFA's not want to play anymore. I mean.. yeah.. if you play alot of FFA then yes.. you should be in the top ranks.. b/c you have put alot of time into it.. not punish the way this point system is doing. GA will tell you.. I was playing alot of FFA till i got fed up with this points system..... i cant stand knowing i came in higher on all but one map then someone else in the FFA and they get points.. and I loose points.. even with a first place or 2 in the FFA.

[*DAMN Mauti]

Harv,

the scenario you and Ghost describe can only happen if you play against very low ranked players. It's like fighting noob clans over and over. That's what you usually would complain about in a clan ladder.

Further in very small FFAs(3 FFA) it happens more likely. To sum up if you play against a mixed field of players this won't happen, or if you play big stake cbs against lower ranked opponents it's also more unlikely if you are reaching the top spot more often and don't get last.

Bye,

Mauti

[[a] LYNX]

mb the solution is to copy the cqb-"Class" over to ffa in the way that it means a percentage-number of your win-rate and is fully included in the existing system. "Win-rate" in terms of the matches outcome (1st, 2nd...).

On a sitenote: I'm still all for a host-handicap.

[BTs_GhostSniper]

On a sitenote: I'm still all for a host-handicap.

Why?  If you'll notice I havn't been doing too well when I host.

[BTs_Lee.Harvey]

well.. like i said mauti... I do think that something is wrong when i can win 2 games.. get second and a 3rd in the other 2 games.. and someone else who only got one second place and 3 rd places get points in a ffa and i loose points... that not showing who has the most skill right there.... that showing that hey.. they are lower ranked so they get more points and yours get taken away even though you beat them (over all ) in the FFA. When we play  FFA.. we cant realy contorll who come into play.. if they have the pass.. they can come on... but b/c of this system.. I think im going to tell the guys who are ranked way lower then me on the ladder that they cannot play in the FFA if i host one.. b/c it will just end up hurting me.. even if i am the overall winner.

[*DAMN Mauti]

Only one small thing Harv - you only get points if you win at least 1 round otherwise you only lose points.

[BTs_Lee.Harvey]

thats what i mean.. i will win 2 rounds or.. and then get second and a third and will loose points b/c someone else got 2  4th places and one first place and one second place and they are ranked lower then me. and i have even seen them get more points then me.. and me loose points and they not even get a first place in the FFA.